Chanley Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 My 12 year old daughter is currently halfway through MUS Zeta. She is calculating the area and circumference of circles. This morning, she was spending so much time with the long multiplication and re-checking, I just handed her a calculator. My thinking was that in the future, she will always have access to a calculator. It is more important that she remember HOW to get to the answer. She knows how to do the basic math. Am I doing this too early? When did you give your kid a calculator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Algebra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wy_kid_wrangler04 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I agree with Ellie. My dd in Algebra still is not to the point I let her have one yet. It will come this year just not yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I haven't yet, and don't plan to anytime soon. My most advanced math student will begin algebra before Christmas. Her prealgebra book has particular problems with a little calculator picture beside them, which indicates she's supposed to use a calculator for them. She's done each one of them by hand, with pride at a job well done. Learning how to keep a meticulously neat math page by conquering those big multiplication and division problems by hand was great preparation for prealgebra. Some of the exercises she's done this year would make those multiplication problems look like a walk in the park. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDmom Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Never!! Bwahahaha! But seriously, my plan is sometime in Algebra. OTOH, I'd probably do the same as you and hand dd a calculator if it was taking her forever to do calculations that she obviously knows how to do. We're just not there yet. She's still making sloppy mistakes in long multiplication, and needs the practice of thinking each problem through and writing it all out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoot Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Algebra. I'm not willing to make DS's hardest and least desirable subject even harder by making him write it all out by hand. There are certain problems that I will have him write out to make sure he remembers the basics and there are some that I have him do mentally, but overall he uses a calculator this year more often than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Now. I'll caveat by saying this - we know that with dd's *brand* of dyslexia come working memory problems; most notably she has difficulties with her multiplication tables. On advice from this board, we decided against holding her back simply because of that one issue (which she may not get over anytime soon). She is allowed to use the calculator ONLY for single digit multiplication; she must write out the steps as she goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 My son had a tough time memorizing them too. I let him use a multiplication chart until he didn't need it anymore. It's going to be the death of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnificat Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I have my children write out the entire problem, then they can use a calculator at the very end (once in Algebra). For example, any time there is a circle involved, I have them "carry the pi symbol along" but do all the other computations - then at the end they can plug in what is left with pi into the calculator. We also use graph paper to keep numbers aligned - it has helped with precision as well as corrections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhomemaker Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Possibly in algebra. Dd's math text introduced calculator use this year, but I have been making her do the problems without one. At first she whined about it. Now whenever the directions say "use your calculator to figure out...", she crosses out the word "calculator" and writes "mind". :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Not yet, and she's almost through AoPS Algebra 1 and halfway through AoPS Counting and Probability :D I like that AoPS problems do not require a student to use a "value" for pi or for an irrational number like the square root of 2. The concept is the important part, not being able to do unnecessary multiplication. Just leave the answer as 12pi for goodness sake. (Sorry, math sore spot :lol:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) My kids do not get to use a calculator until they need one in their chemistry and physics classes, or when they need to master a graphing calculator in calculus. I see calculator dependent college students in my classes every day. With the right curriculum, there is no need for a calculator through calculus. With other, less well designed curricula, a calculator should not be needed until the student has to compute logarithms or values of trig functions. Certainly NOT in algebra 1. ETA: I had forgotten about standardized tests. DD got to use a calculator whenever she prepped for SAT or ACT. In all cases, however, the problems can be solved without a calculator, too, and often faster. It is important that the student learns to discern when using the calculator on these tests saves time; this is not the case on all problems. Edited October 16, 2012 by regentrude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 My kids don't use calculators prior to alg 2 and then only very rarely. Even through cal they rarely use a calculator. (actually, when ds was prepping for AP BC the calculator section was the section he needed to study. The other time they use one is in prepping for the SAT/ACT) FWIW, he is not allowed to use a calculator in either his multivariable cal or his university physics classes. That is similar to older ds. I am not sure about the multi-cal and physics w/him b/c he wasn't living at home at that pt, but I know he wasn't allowed to use a calculator in either cal 1 or 2 when to took them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterflymommy Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I gave my son a calculator at saxon 8/7 (pre algebra). He was growing to hate math and my rationalization is that he can have a calculator on the SAT so why not let him learn to use it as a tool. This was not my preference but it's what we did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 My daughter is using SM 6b and there are little calculator symbols by some of the problems where it would just be too time consuming to work it out by hand (like right now in the statistics chapter... adding up a ton of numbers doesn't help learn more about finding the mean...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinsfamily Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Possibly in algebra. Dd's math text introduced calculator use this year, but I have been making her do the problems without one. At first she whined about it. Now whenever the directions say "use your calculator to figure out...", she crosses out the word "calculator" and writes "mind". :lol: My ds is using Horizons 5 as a supp and often wonders why they call those calculator sections. He also is proud doing them by hand. It's funny to me. I agree with the others. Maybe Algebra, but sparingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrself Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Now. I'll caveat by saying this - we know that with dd's *brand* of dyslexia come working memory problems; most notably she has difficulties with her multiplication tables. On advice from this board, we decided against holding her back simply because of that one issue (which she may not get over anytime soon). She is allowed to use the calculator ONLY for single digit multiplication; she must write out the steps as she goes. Just wanted to reiterate you're not alone, Aimee. My oldest ds is dyslexic and those math facts just don't stick. Even when he can complete the fact practice sheet quickly, he can't remember them when he's doing his long division. I had problems with them in school as well. Heck even now as an adult. And I still got through calculus and several statistics classes in college, using the speediest skip counting imaginable. :) Nicole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) Once mine have demonstrated competency with doing arithmetic calculations by hand, and I want them to move on to doing more and more complex math, they get a calculator. I want them to work through the math and not get their brains bogged down by arithmetic. And I don't want them spending time looking up trig functions or square or cube roots or logarithms or exponents in a printed table. Understanding why we do the math is IMO more important. I am already teaching DS9 how to use a RPN calculator with a stack. What I will do though, is make them use that calculator to calculate values of functions and graph them by hand. I experienced real value in that exercise - seeing the shape of a function show up on paper one point at a time - I got a good feel for how functions behaved that way. Edited October 16, 2012 by laundrycrisis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELITEANDLOVINGIT Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Just lurking! :o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 . And I don't want them spending time looking up trig functions or square or cube roots or logarithms or exponents in a printed table. Understanding why we do the math is IMO more important With an approach like this, it is important to be careful that not to miss important skills. A well designed math program won't have your student look up logarithms in table, but might very well have him use laws of logarithms to simplify the answer to a point that he can find it easily without a calculator. Using the calculator may completely miss the learning objective. As for trig functions: again, a carefully constructed curriculum will pose a problem like sin 105 degrees so that the student has to construct the result using trig identities; computing it with a calculator will have missed the point of the lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embassy Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I haven't allowed a calculator for math yet, but I do allow my ds to use one for science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 With an approach like this, it is important to be careful that not to miss important skills. A well designed math program won't have your student look up logarithms in table, but might very well have him use laws of logarithms to simplify the answer to a point that he can find it easily without a calculator. Using the calculator may completely miss the learning objective.As for trig functions: again, a carefully constructed curriculum will pose a problem like sin 105 degrees so that the student has to construct the result using trig identities; computing it with a calculator will have missed the point of the lesson. Oh, I'm fine with that at the beginning of exploring those areas. But once the problems move past that stage - yeah, calculator. We had to use tables, and do trial and error hand calculations for values that were between the values in the tables - and that is also valuable, but IMO only a few times. Not endlessly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 With an approach like this, it is important to be careful that not to miss important skills. A well designed math program won't have your student look up logarithms in table, but might very well have him use laws of logarithms to simplify the answer to a point that he can find it easily without a calculator. Using the calculator may completely miss the learning objective.As for trig functions: again, a carefully constructed curriculum will pose a problem like sin 105 degrees so that the student has to construct the result using trig identities; computing it with a calculator will have missed the point of the lesson. I can see this point for higher math, but no, I am not tying up my dyslexic's cognitive load with 64-57, when he is done balancing the equation and is solving for x. With a processing speed in the low digits, it takes him twice as long as an average person to do simple calculations. There is just no point in having him overload when he has done all of the math right, and is having trouble recalling where in his brain he stored the proper word or symbol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Oldest is in Algebra and I haven't given her a calculator except for her ACT testing. AoPS teaches without a calculator. I do allow DD with processing and working memory problems to create her own answer sheet for multiplication and division that I check and that she can then use for the day to make sure she is memorizing her facts correctly. She also has access to CC skip counting math cards and MUS blocks, but no calculator, and she is given as much time with math as she needs. (Neuropsych told us to give her a calculator summer before last because she would never learn her addition and subtraction tables. ;)) Edited October 17, 2012 by melmichigan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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