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Undercover apostates (from Christianity) CC, obviously


Are there "secret" apostates at your church?  

  1. 1. Are there "secret" apostates at your church?

    • Yes, I think there are many apostates externally going along with the program.
      42
    • Maybe there are a moderate amount of undercover apostates at my church.
      27
    • I think there are very few apostates at my church.
      47
    • I don't believe there is any such thing.
      6
    • Other
      16


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I believe you are having a crisis of faith. Maybe even just a crisis of denomination. But I don't think you are apostate.

 

IMNSHO, All it takes to qualify as a Christian is belief that you are a follower of Christ and believe He is your Savior.

 

Well, that's very generous of you and thanks for being so kind about it, but I really don't believe that about myself. I have been through a crisis of faith, or several different crises of faith, but I view myself as now at the end of it. I'm not really doubting, struggling, or questioning anymore. I have given up, resigned. I know that if another Christian were to take stock of my actual beliefs or lack of beliefs, they would not be willing to categorize me as a Christian. It would be like saying I'm a Floridian because I went vacationing there a few times. Really - the reason I titled the thread as Undercover Apostates is because that is what I believe I am. Apparently, some people define apostate through more extreme or stringent guidelines than I do, but I would say if all I really have left is a deistic belief in God, a longing towards that which is good, and a deep reverence for Jesus, that does not cut muster as a "Christian" for probably 98% of people who self-identify as Christian. Yet, my life is constructed with a Christian framework. I do not want to be identified as an atheist. I am NOT an atheist. I don't want my children to grow up as atheists. We attend a Christian church regularly; I belong to a Christian co-op; my daughter attends a Christian private school. In all external respects, I am assumed to be Christian, but in reality, I'm post-Christian. I wondered how common it is, or how rare, but there probably is no way to actually know, as you see from the poll. Many people think it's common and many people think it's rare.

 

Actually, now that I've thought about it, I think I want this on a t-shirt.

 

NOBODY KNOWS I'M AN APOSTATE.

 

:lol::lol::lol: That is perfect! Seriously, that is exactly what I feel like I'm doing here!

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Really - the reason I titled the thread as Undercover Apostates is because that is what I believe I am. Apparently, some people define apostate through more extreme or stringent guidelines than I do, but I would say if all I really have left is a deistic belief in God, a longing towards that which is good, and a deep reverence for Jesus, that does not cut muster as a "Christian" for probably 98% of people who self-identify as Christian. Yet, my life is constructed with a Christian framework. I do not want to be identified as an atheist. I am NOT an atheist. I don't want my children to grow up as atheists. We attend a Christian church regularly; I belong to a Christian co-op; my daughter attends a Christian private school. In all external respects, I am assumed to be Christian, but in reality, I'm post-Christian. I wondered how common it is, or how rare, but there probably is no way to actually know, as you see from the poll. Many people think it's common and many people think it's rare.

 

 

 

:lol::lol::lol: That is perfect! Seriously, that is exactly what I feel like I'm doing here!

 

You're not alone, although it may feel that way. I take the kids to mass, choir and scouts at a RC parish even though I am not a Christian of any stripe. No one bugs me about it ever even though I'm up front about not being Catholic and, if pressed, not being Christian. I know that other churches aren't so "live and let live" about the actual beliefs of the people in the pews, but plenty of them are. If you feel uncomfortable where you are, find a church that's less nebby about your beliefs and more interested in your attendance and participation.

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In all external respects, I am assumed to be Christian, but in reality, I'm post-Christian. I wondered how common it is, or how rare, but there probably is no way to actually know, as you see from the poll. Many people think it's common and many people think it's rare.

 

 

I went through 9 years of being post Christian. :001_smile:

 

If people are truly seeking, there will be times like that. So, it's not a matter if IF you are, it's a matter of when you will. ;) I will stick with my opinion that it is the healthiest to do so.

 

And it's why we can't go around pointing fingers, because eventually, we'll have a dark night of the soul ourselves.

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Well, that's very generous of you and thanks for being so kind about it, but I really don't believe that about myself. I have been through a crisis of faith, or several different crises of faith, but I view myself as now at the end of it. I'm not really doubting, struggling, or questioning anymore. I have given up, resigned. I know that if another Christian were to take stock of my actual beliefs or lack of beliefs, they would not be willing to categorize me as a Christian. It would be like saying I'm a Floridian because I went vacationing there a few times. Really - the reason I titled the thread as Undercover Apostates is because that is what I believe I am. Apparently, some people define apostate through more extreme or stringent guidelines than I do, but I would say if all I really have left is a deistic belief in God, a longing towards that which is good, and a deep reverence for Jesus, that does not cut muster as a "Christian" for probably 98% of people who self-identify as Christian. Yet, my life is constructed with a Christian framework. I do not want to be identified as an atheist. I am NOT an atheist. I don't want my children to grow up as atheists. We attend a Christian church regularly; I belong to a Christian co-op; my daughter attends a Christian private school. In all external respects, I am assumed to be Christian, but in reality, I'm post-Christian. I wondered how common it is, or how rare, but there probably is no way to actually know, as you see from the poll. Many people think it's common and many people think it's rare.

 

 

I think you and I would get along wonderfully!!

 

Cindy

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Well, that's very generous of you and thanks for being so kind about it, but I really don't believe that about myself. I have been through a crisis of faith, or several different crises of faith, but I view myself as now at the end of it. I'm not really doubting, struggling, or questioning anymore. I have given up, resigned. I know that if another Christian were to take stock of my actual beliefs or lack of beliefs, they would not be willing to categorize me as a Christian. It would be like saying I'm a Floridian because I went vacationing there a few times. Really - the reason I titled the thread as Undercover Apostates is because that is what I believe I am. Apparently, some people define apostate through more extreme or stringent guidelines than I do, but I would say if all I really have left is a deistic belief in God, a longing towards that which is good, and a deep reverence for Jesus, that does not cut muster as a "Christian" for probably 98% of people who self-identify as Christian. Yet, my life is constructed with a Christian framework. I do not want to be identified as an atheist. I am NOT an atheist. I don't want my children to grow up as atheists. We attend a Christian church regularly; I belong to a Christian co-op; my daughter attends a Christian private school. In all external respects, I am assumed to be Christian, but in reality, I'm post-Christian. I wondered how common it is, or how rare, but there probably is no way to actually know, as you see from the poll. Many people think it's common and many people think it's rare.

 

 

 

!

 

:grouphug: Post Christian.

 

I am very much in the same situation; I recently graduated from a CHRISTIAN graduate school!

 

I stopped attending church, though, for an extension of the reasons I am post Christian.

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Ouch

 

astrid

 

ETA: You have obviously edited your post after I replied. I was responding to your comment that you could get Joanne a t-shirt that says, "apostate" and your questioning her about her understanding of the OP.

Edited by astrid
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Well, that's very generous of you and thanks for being so kind about it, but I really don't believe that about myself. I have been through a crisis of faith, or several different crises of faith, but I view myself as now at the end of it. I'm not really doubting, struggling, or questioning anymore. I have given up, resigned.

This makes me sad to know. I just want to go :smash: people on the head for making others feel this way about Christianity. It needn't be this way ever for anyone.

I know that if another Christian were to take stock of my actual beliefs or lack of beliefs, they would not be willing to categorize me as a Christian.

Not all of them.;)

 

It would be like saying I'm a Floridian because I went vacationing there a few times. Really - the reason I titled the thread as Undercover Apostates is because that is what I believe I am. Apparently, some people define apostate through more extreme or stringent guidelines than I do, but I would say if all I really have left is a deistic belief in God, a longing towards that which is good, and a deep reverence for Jesus, that does not cut muster as a "Christian" for probably 98% of people who self-identify as Christian. Yet, my life is constructed with a Christian framework. I do not want to be identified as an atheist. I am NOT an atheist.

No, I don't believe you would fit that at all.

 

I don't want my children to grow up as atheists. We attend a Christian church regularly; I belong to a Christian co-op; my daughter attends a Christian private school. In all external respects, I am assumed to be Christian, but in reality, I'm post-Christian. I wondered how common it is, or how rare, but there probably is no way to actually know, as you see from the poll. Many people think it's common and many people think it's rare.

Truly I only have the Catholic experience to go by. I know there are probably many many many people in the pews questioning bits and pieces and sometimes whole entire parts. They are in the right place to do their questioning and no one will think less of them for it. It is practically expected. So that is why I don't think there are many.

 

 

You're not alone, although it may feel that way. I take the kids to mass, choir and scouts at a RC parish even though I am not a Christian of any stripe. No one bugs me about it ever even though I'm up front about not being Catholic and, if pressed, not being Christian. I know that other churches aren't so "live and let live" about the actual beliefs of the people in the pews, but plenty of them are. If you feel uncomfortable where you are, find a church that's less nebby about your beliefs and more interested in your attendance and participation.

I wonder if this is a Protestant Christian thing. I think some branches on the Christianity Tree are a bit uptight.

 

I went through 9 years of being post Christian. :001_smile:

 

If people are truly seeking, there will be times like that. So, it's not a matter if IF you are, it's a matter of when you will. ;) I will stick with my opinion that it is the healthiest to do so.

 

And it's why we can't go around pointing fingers, because eventually, we'll have a dark night of the soul ourselves.

Agreed. And I'm very glad you've found a home.

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See, I admit I do rather like knowing I'm in good company or that, at the very least, there are some who get this and aren't determined to throw me to the dogs.

 

I haven't posted (I don't think?) but I just wanted to say that I'm praying for you, Quill. :grouphug:

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See, I admit I do rather like knowing I'm in good company
2 things... yes I even know of a pastor who has had a crisis of faith. He just doesn't understand how a loving and just God could punish someone eternally for only a few years of sinning... he has considered moving out of the country where he pastors.

 

We have had some good discussions about what some teachings and conceptions are and what the Bible says and doesn't say...

 

and like I said I know many who have been where you are. :grouphug:

 

or that, at the very least, there are some who get this and aren't determined to throw me to the dogs.
I think that this really depends on your relationship with people. Someone (agnostic) in my life thinks it is fine for her friends to be Christians, but when I became one she attacked me (even her husband saw it) and cut off all contact with me. I am just waiting it out for now.

 

My point is that some people may be understanding with you because they aren't close to you. :/ Okay... I will stop before my big mouth screws things up even more.

Edited by Lovedtodeath
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My point is that some people may be understanding with you because they aren't close to you. :/ Okay... I will stop before my big mouth screws things up even more.

 

Ha! Yes, that is true. It's a dam* shame, but it is true. Well, at least I'm in good company on a message board in cyberspace! :lol: I'm not sure that will help me much if I ever really need a friend, but it's kind of nice as a backup.

 

My mom is a good example - she is the worst offender. Of course, being very devout, it's super-troubling to hear her child speak heresy, I'm assuming. I just don't tell her anymore. :tongue_smilie:

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Ha! Yes, that is true. It's a dam* shame, but it is true. Well, at least I'm in good company on a message board in cyberspace! :lol: I'm not sure that will help me much if I ever really need a friend, but it's kind of nice as a backup.
Well I think we have also learned that different denominations and churches will handle things differently as well. :grouphug:
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Now that. I've read all of this, I'll first say that I didn't vote because it is not something I think about, maybe because I have been in that situation before and had a very similar to what you have described Quill. Except for my BFF and a couple other friends, dh and I were shunned and dumped by most when we became what others would call "apostate." We were questioning and doubting and told by our pastor that the church (non-denominational) was right and we were wrong, period. We left and the fall out was painful. But personally we couldn't stay and believe.

 

I was a post-Christian for 5 or so years before I found my home in the RCC. Like others have said, I can finally be comfortable with my questioning and wondering and I guess maybe there are others like me in the pews every Sunday. But we are all on a journey and I wouldn't want to risk calling or labeling them apostate or false believer. It's just not my place. I've got enough trouble of my own to worry about whether the person in front of me secretly disagrees.

 

Quill, I'm praying for you. Much of your story sounds too familiar. May you find peace on your journey. Like Chucki said, the Crossing the Tiber social group is a great place for asking questions without judgment. :grouphug:

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I *am* talking about somone like in your last paragraph. I mean people in my life, who I know well, who profess to be Christians but do NOT display the fruit of the spirit.

 

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. - Galatians 5:22-23

Yes, see fruits are not works. I know someone who has only been to church a couple of times (yes total) and is not involved in "ministry" but this person's family and neighbors see the changes: more loving, more joyful, less judgmental, more generous. Fruits.
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