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S/O: Give me some ideas for Reading and Math


kentuckymom
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So I posted another thread recently about ideas for what to do if I manage to convince DH to pull our second grade DS out at some point this year.

 

He's dyslexic and making slow progress in reading with a tutor outside of school using Barton Reading and Spelling. He also struggles with math. It was just this summer that he was able consistently count to 20 without skipping numbers in the teens and to 100 by ten's without skipping 20-50. He's great at spatial thinking and can play spatial and logical games on the computer that totally baffle me.

 

I've spent many hours perusing Math curriculum, and can't decide which one (or maybe which combination) would suit him. I think he needs something with a hands on component, but at the same time I don't want to teach him to depend on manipulatives.

 

The two that have caught my eye are RightStart and McRuffy. RightStart appeals to me because it seems to work with a different way of thinking than most math programs and doesn't depend on rote counting, which is DS's weakness. McRuffy appeals to me because it's manipulative heavy and multisensory but much more in line with standard curriculum than is RightStart.

 

Do you think either would be better in our situation? Any other suggestions?

 

We'll keep DS in Barton tutoring if we pull him out, but I think I'd like to supplement/reinforce it with another program at home. I've heard good things about Dancing Bears. Anyone used this in conjunction with Barton? Or would I be better off with another OG program, like AAR or AAS?

 

Thanks for any suggestions!

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If he's a 2nd grader, I'm assuming he's 8 or 9? If so, he *needs* manipulatives of some kind. Some kids drop them in third and others may need them until 4th.

 

I'm not familiar with Barton. Hunter might be. That being said, might I suggest Miquon and a set of c-rods for math?

 

For reading instruction, I like OPGTR. When I was teaching Dragon to read, we used that and leftover blank business cards. We wrote on them with markers and he picked the color for the day. If memory serves, Jessie offers suggestions for teaching dyslexic students.

 

HWT is good for handwriting. It was developed by an OT for her son. Take a look at it. Fury struggled with handwriting and we used that. His writing isn't pretty but at least it's legible.

 

I hope this helps! Sorry for rambling.

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So I posted another thread recently about ideas for what to do if I manage to convince DH to pull our second grade DS out at some point this year.

 

He's dyslexic and making slow progress in reading with a tutor outside of school using Barton Reading and Spelling. He also struggles with math. It was just this summer that he was able consistently count to 20 without skipping numbers in the teens and to 100 by ten's without skipping 20-50. He's great at spatial thinking and can play spatial and logical games on the computer that totally baffle me.

 

I've spent many hours perusing Math curriculum, and can't decide which one (or maybe which combination) would suit him. I think he needs something with a hands on component, but at the same time I don't want to teach him to depend on manipulatives.

 

The two that have caught my eye are RightStart and McRuffy. RightStart appeals to me because it seems to work with a different way of thinking than most math programs and doesn't depend on rote counting, which is DS's weakness. McRuffy appeals to me because it's manipulative heavy and multisensory but much more in line with standard curriculum than is RightStart.

 

Do you think either would be better in our situation? Any other suggestions?

 

We'll keep DS in Barton tutoring if we pull him out, but I think I'd like to supplement/reinforce it with another program at home. I've heard good things about Dancing Bears. Anyone used this in conjunction with Barton? Or would I be better off with another OG program, like AAR or AAS?

 

Thanks for any suggestions!

 

Reading: What can he actually read at this point? Especially, what can he read fluently, not just barely manage to decode, at this point? You could answer in terms of names of books, or that he can read CVC words, and many common sight words, but not yet CVCe words. Knowing the actual situation would help people to guide you--and this is probably worth your working with him on whether or not you pull him out of regular school.

 

Another question is would it make sense to do more Barton at home on non tutoring days?

 

We did not use Barton. My son would still be stuck on the nonsense words at Barton's first level, I think. After a bunch of false starts, we used HighNoonBooks.com, and its sound out chapter books. If your ds is still at that stage, those or other higher levels of its readers might be useful for your son. I also had another catalog of a company that did high interest/low level readers, but got rid of such things when we moved beyond them (high interest/low level is a term to do a search for though).

 

If your son is able to get to the Magic Tree House reading level, I'd highly recommend those.

 

Math: Consider MathUSee ... the page layout, manipulatives, and all worked well for my dyslexic son.

 

 

Both reading and math take a lot of practice at whatever level, especially with dyslexia. If you can let your son see some samples on line or by orders that are returnable, what he likes ( and thus will be at least willing if not actually eager to spend time on) as among acceptable options, could make a big difference.

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I'm imagining the math issues are related to the dyslexia as those things have to do with sequential/linear thinking and not so much math. He may well be strong in math! The two math ideas I would look into based on what you've shared about your son are RightStart and Miquon. I would stay in the conceptual math selections for him which is why I left out McRuffy (which is fun and hands on but I don't think a good fit for his spatial mind). Neither RightStart or Miquon will line up with school standards if that's important. I've used RightStart through 1/2 of C and am now using Math In Focus (I also own some McRuffy, Miquon, Singapore, Math Mammoth, etc.). I like Math in Focus and it is fitting my very left brain and very right brain children both. It also lines up with public school standards.

 

However, I am glad we did RightStart first. It does an excellent job with place value and laying a strong basis for math. It's very hands on. But my kids are different than yours in their strengths.

 

You might ask on the special needs board here what math other parents of kids with dyslexia might recommend for a strongly visual-spatial kid. I think there are also homeschooling boards on yahoo groups that focus on dyslexia. Those might be a good place to ask for curriculum ideas as well.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HeartofReading/?yguid=200541244

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HSDyslexicKids/

 

 

Reading. Since he's going to be continuing with a Barton tutor (right--I know some homeschool parents do Barton themselves but I think you're continuing with his tutor, right?) I would tend to leave it to that or perhaps ask the tutor if there are things you could do at home to reinforce. I used I See Sam with my son but that was before we did a more intense O-G program.

 

I'm excited for you! He sounds like a really neat kid and the type who is going to really benefit from the customized education that homeschooling can bring.

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Thanks for the tips so far!

 

More on reading: He reads CVC words fluently, and he sometimes reads CVCe words. He was taught that at school but it hasn't been covered in Barton yet, so he sometimes forgets. He probably knows close to 100 common sight words. He can also read one syllable words with lots of different blends.

 

For those who know Barton, he's most of the way through level 3. This means he's learned most consonant blends. He just finished up the "Catch Lunch" rule and is now working on contractions.

 

Aside from sight words, he hasn't been taught to read multisyllable words in Barton. He can sound out a few, but they don't come naturally.

 

He can read Level 1 "Steps to Reading Books" fluently and he can read Level 2 books but he struggles with them and needs help with some words. He's very proud that he was recently able to read both GO DOG GO and ARE YOU MY MOTHER? with just a bit of help.

 

Hope that helps!

 

I'm glad to hear recommendations for RightStart. It's not super important to me that the curriculum follow state standards, at least not until he gets a handle on arithmetic. Reading about RightStart, it really struck me as being a fit for the way his brain seems to work (which is really different from the way my brain works), but I was kind of intimidated by a) how different it is from the way I learned and the way most programs work and b) reviews saying how it was difficult to transition from RightStart to something else.

 

As for whether or not he's mathy... I think you're right on sbgrace. His troubles with math in school are all (or at least mostly) about sequencing. He seems to understand the concepts of addition and subtraction but really struggles with the actual operations.

 

DH, who is also dyslexic (never diagnosed, but he has all the signs and struggled in school just like DS is doing), and now works as an engineer can do calculus in his head, but he can't add, say, 28 and 64 together in his head. So he'll ask me to do what seems to me to be simple addition and then he'll do the calculus. He says that when he hit high school math all his friends who had sailed along for years with arithmetic started struggling and it suddenly got really easy for him. I, on the other hand, whizzed through math up to Algebra and suddenly had to work really, really hard for the good grades I was used to getting easily. So my guess is DS will ultimately prove to be "mathy" in the sense of true mathematics, but he's not the least bit "arithmeticky" :).

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Just to make sure you didn't miss it in the other thread...

 

Read up on VSL - Visual Spatial Learners. Sounds like your son (and DH). ;) A bunch of tagged threads are here.

 

These kids are often very smart. They just blossom a bit later when certain things come together in their brain.

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DH, who is also dyslexic (never diagnosed, but he has all the signs and struggled in school just like DS is doing), and now works as an engineer can do calculus in his head, but he can't add, say, 28 and 64 together in his head. So he'll ask me to do what seems to me to be simple addition and then he'll do the calculus. He says that when he hit high school math all his friends who had sailed along for years with arithmetic started struggling and it suddenly got really easy for him. I, on the other hand, whizzed through math up to Algebra and suddenly had to work really, really hard for the good grades I was used to getting easily. So my guess is DS will ultimately prove to be "mathy" in the sense of true mathematics, but he's not the least bit "arithmeticky" :).

 

Well, thank you for this anecdote, because this is my older ds as well.

 

As for suggestions, Barton is a complete program, so you shouldn't need additional spelling and phonics. You may want to consider grammar, MCT is good for kids with this profile, and ds loves it. Writing has also been a struggle for dyslexic ds, but he is doing well with Singapore's Sentences to Paragraphs. It has lots of picture support, which is great for helping a dyslexic think.

 

In math, Miquon has been the most helpful, and parts of Math Mammoth as well, but to be honest a lot of arithmetic is a struggle for the reasons you describe. We're currently using Beast Academy (3rd grade level) but I am really tweaking it to make it work, and may actually drop it soon, so I can't really unabashedly recommend it for a dyslexic. It just requires too much quick calculation and mental arithmetic gymnastics that seem to magnify the aspects of dyslexia that show up in math. I do think AoPs might be great for this kind of kid in higher math, but I'm quickly discovering that higher math and arithmetic are 2 totally separate processes, and what curriculum might work for one, may not be the same curriculum that works to teach the other.

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Thanks for the tips so far!

 

More on reading: He reads CVC words fluently, and he sometimes reads CVCe words. He was taught that at school but it hasn't been covered in Barton yet, so he sometimes forgets. He probably knows close to 100 common sight words. He can also read one syllable words with lots of different blends.

 

For those who know Barton, he's most of the way through level 3. This means he's learned most consonant blends. He just finished up the "Catch Lunch" rule and is now working on contractions.

 

Aside from sight words, he hasn't been taught to read multisyllable words in Barton. He can sound out a few, but they don't come naturally.

 

He can read Level 1 "Steps to Reading Books" fluently and he can read Level 2 books but he struggles with them and needs help with some words. He's very proud that he was recently able to read both GO DOG GO and ARE YOU MY MOTHER? with just a bit of help.

 

Hope that helps!

 

.

 

3 suggestions:

 

1) Get a set of HighNoonBooks.com Sound Out Chapter Books. Just one set, such as a first level one that reinforces CVC words (one has a book with title like The Red Cap, and it gives a whole story in mostly CVC and simple sight words with almost no pictures to go on, so it really has to be read). Have him read each book in the set 3 times out loud to you and see if that helps him securely cement that level. ( I think the first 2 levels are sold as a package with level one and two in the same set, and I think to start where he may already have some fluency will help to build his ability rather than starting a bit on the hard side.) If it seems to help cement the level for him and or to build his confidence, then get the next level set if ready or another at same level if you discover that is needed. And do same thing level by level until he seems ready to move over to something like The Magic Tree House. (You can also read the book to him the first time if that helps.) Unfortunately the HighNoon books intervention system and Barton do not tackle things in the same order, but I think it may still be a great help to have the real stories to read with a very careful orderly progression.

 

2) Get a simple Little Critter book particularly Just For You (which tend more to help with sight word reinforcement rather than the regular phonemic patterns), and do the same with that. It has some words longer than one syllable, but so does Are You My Mother? Again, if that seems to help, get another one, at same level or a little harder. Actually, I don't think any others are quite as easy as Just For You.

 

3) Talk with the Barton tutor about doing extra Barton work at home between tutoring sessions.

 

 

Personally from my own experience, I would not try to work on grammar or writing composition until the reading is more secure. However, I would read to him many types of books both fiction and nonfiction (and use audio books) at a level that is intellectually appropriate so that he is hearing language used well in terms of writing and grammar. You could also point things out about grammar and writing as you are doing reading. I would second MCT for at some later point.

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Thanks for the book recommendations! I'll check out High Noon Books and see if they look like a good fit. That's something I can use even if he stays in school this year because he's supposed to read a book every night as homework and we're running out of books that he both is able to read and finds interesting.

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Just to make sure you didn't miss it in the other thread...

 

Read up on VSL - Visual Spatial Learners. Sounds like your son (and DH). ;) A bunch of tagged threads are here.

 

These kids are often very smart. They just blossom a bit later when certain things come together in their brain.

 

Thanks for reminding me of that! I've read a bit about VSL and DS definitely has some of the characteristics. My husband and I say that DS got his brain and my heart. So basically I understand how DS feels most of the time but not how he thinks, and DH is the opposite. I definitely need to read more about visual spatial learners.

 

Off this direct topic, learning that DS is dyslexic and trying to help him learn has actually helped me understand my husband much better. He never told me he was dyslexic, and it used to drive me crazy that he'd ask me how to spell the same word over and over again. Now it doesn't bother me at all :).

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I have a second grader who is struggling with reading as well. Right now I am reading through a book called "Reading Rescue 1-2-3". I really like the ideas that are set forth in it. It gives some very concrete ideas of what you can do in your reading with your child.

 

We did Right start math for a while but I got tired of it. I felt like it was too teacher intensive. But maybe I am just lazy! But I am glad we started with it because I really think it gave my kids a good foundation. We now do singapore math but I often find myself returning to ways of doing things we learned in right start math.

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Just to make sure you didn't miss it in the other thread...

 

Read up on VSL - Visual Spatial Learners. Sounds like your son (and DH). ;) A bunch of tagged threads are here.

 

These kids are often very smart. They just blossom a bit later when certain things come together in their brain.

 

Not picking on Boscopup here since she is just the messenger, but expanding on the thought of "VSL".

 

This may just be my stump of the moment, but I am liking the classification of VSL less and less. Our neuropsychs really disagree with it, and I am beginning to understand why the further we travel down this dyslexia road.

 

VSL is really a learning style preference, and dyslexia is a completely different processing system in the brain (and classified as an LD). A diagnosed dyslexic kid will need a LOT more to remediate than just changing the input to VSL-style. I sometimes think that the concept of VSL is not helpful for dyslexics because it normalizes a language issue that needs specific, targeted remediation. Obviously there are learners who are not dyslexic and yet prefer a VSL learning style, but I'm talking specifically about dyslexics.:rant:

 

Anyway, IMHO, if you know you are dealing with a dyslexic, I would venture over to the SN and start searching some threads or posting some questions there. There are incredible gals on that board with some very high achieving dyslexic teenagers and I have learned so much from them in terms of helping ds move forward. I've gained much more traction from the specific dyslexic remediations and materials than from any of the VSL advice but YMMV.

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No problem. :) I do not have a diagnosed dyslexic, so I'm open to differing viewpoints! :grouphug:

 

Thanks for the hugs and the empathy. Ironically, ds is doing fabulously, and when I step away from these boards for a bit I realize just how well he is doing. It is just that his path is so non-traditional that when I compare it to many of the standard linear education plans here it makes me stress, but in reality, it isn't any worse, it is just VERY different (but that's kind of why we're homeschooling in the first place). I've also heard from other dyslexic parents on this board that 3rd grade-ish age is where the 2E split is most extreme, so hopefully the gap will start to narrow from here on out.

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Thanks for the book recommendations! I'll check out High Noon Books and see if they look like a good fit. That's something I can use even if he stays in school this year because he's supposed to read a book every night as homework and we're running out of books that he both is able to read and finds interesting.

 

Well...there is a limit to how much interest an all CVC book can have! But what there may be is a thrill at being able to read a Chapter Book! And they look fairly sophisticated on cover, so my son didn't mind taking them along and reading in waiting rooms and so on. And the practice of actually reading, especially orally several times, makes a tremendous difference in skill gains. If you are needing to read one each night (wait, a whole book? really? you may need to modify that at first), they actually have, as I recall, 9 books available at each level. I hope you can reread the same one several times though, and have that count, because that makes the reading get really solid. IME, more than 3 times and they just were getting memorized so no longer a benefit.

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Dancing Bears is what got my severely dyslexic DS12 reading last year. He had been in public school with an IEP for six years and could read nine words at the end of 4th grade. Over that summer we did Dancing Bears and his reading had jumped a whole grade when he returned to public school for 5h grade. That's when I pulled him out because I knew I could do a better job teaching my DS at home. :)

 

In retrospect, I should have gone with Bear Necessities, which is the industrial strength version of Dancing Bears.

 

I can remember being so desperate to get him reading that I thought it may never happen. I love Dancing Bears!

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Well...there is a limit to how much interest an all CVC book can have! But what there may be is a thrill at being able to read a Chapter Book! And they look fairly sophisticated on cover, so my son didn't mind taking them along and reading in waiting rooms and so on. And the practice of actually reading, especially orally several times, makes a tremendous difference in skill gains. If you are needing to read one each night (wait, a whole book? really? you may need to modify that at first), they actually have, as I recall, 9 books available at each level. I hope you can reread the same one several times though, and have that count, because that makes the reading get really solid. IME, more than 3 times and they just were getting memorized so no longer a benefit.

 

I should clarify that. He's supposed to read for 15-20 minutes each night. With the books we have now that he can read, that's one book a night. My guess is the High Noon books could cover two or maybe even three nights, which would be great. I presume that most of his classmates are reading chapter books and take more than one day to finish each book.

 

On the VSL thing: yeah, I think it's useful to a point to think about his learning style, but the main thing to focus on is remediation of his dyslexia. I think it's possible that the parent of a dyslexic could just focus on their kid being VSL and not figure out the real issue, which would make it even more difficult to deal with in later years.

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