reverse engineering and transcripts

[hsingscrapper]

Okay. I think that title sounds a bit wonky but bear with me.

 

I had a realization that my time with Fury is sort of running out. He is 13 and working at mostly 7th grade level. He wants to be a beat cop. I'd like to see him pursue a degree in case the law enforcement didn't pan out.

 

So I'm wondering if you plan first and then worry about the transcript or flesh out a makeshift transcript and reverse-engineer the game plan from that?

 

Or am I being a silly worry wart and there's a much better way?

[regentrude]

I started by looking at the admissions requirements of the kind of universities my DD might want to attend. For us, that meant planning for 4 years each of math, English, science, foreign language, and social sciences. Plus a handful of electives.

 

When I made our tentative outline for high school, I did not worry about the transcript. I keep a preliminary version, but will probably change it when it is time for applications.

[JanetC]

So I'm wondering if you plan first and then worry about the transcript or flesh out a makeshift transcript and reverse-engineer the game plan from that?

It moves both ways -- if your student becomes obsessive about Mars, you watch them work then reverse-engineer a course in "Independent Study in Planetary Science."

 

But, you also have to plan forward. If Big State U* wants to see four years of English from all applicants, you sketch out four years of English and figure out what you want your student to do to earn a credit in English each year. (One unit of English may be in "Technical and Scientific Writing" for all those notebooks about Mars, and others may be more traditional literature courses, but you manage to plan or find something to call English each year.)

 

(*For "Big State U" you could substitute "Local Community College Criminal Justice and Law Enforcement Department" or "Ivy League U" or "My State's minimum high school graduation requirements" as appropriate for the particular student. "Big State U" is often a nice medium target -- more than doing the minimum, but not as intense as Ivy League prep, and it keeps many options open.)

[Candid]

Both, it would be wise to look at school that you think are possibilities now and see what they require. Assume that admitted students might have a bit more than what is requested.

 

Then look at what you will need to do each year to meet that level of work. With some subjects the path will pretty clear and basic math will generally follow the same plan most folks do. Other subjects like English and History will allow for greater flexibility. A history of the the 20th Century might count for World History vs. a full survey.

 

Then as you go through your high school years, you may find the need to make adjustments.

[hsingscrapper]

His goal is to be a police officer and not to attend college.

 

Over my dead body.

 

Would a good tentative plan be four years of math, science, English, and history sprinkled with foreign language? I feel like I'm missing something.

[Belacqua]

I started by looking at the admissions requirements of the kind of universities my DD might want to attend. For us, that meant planning for 4 years each of math, English, science, foreign language, and social sciences. Plus a handful of electives.

 

That's what we did, too. If you do this, you might also consider whether the schools want to see specific exams, such as SAT2s. For instance, some of the tech schools really want three of those, at least two of them being sciences. Good to know before getting started.

[tex-mex]

His goal is to be a police officer and not to attend college.

 

Over my dead body.

 

Would a good tentative plan be four years of math, science, English, and history sprinkled with foreign language? I feel like I'm missing something.

From my cousins who are both former CHP (CA Highway Patrol) and beat cops, I would strongly steer your ds into at minimum an Associates in Criminal Justice for the increase in pay. Plus it helps with promotion or if he gets sick of beat cop and wants to be a detective. One cousin left law enforcement all together and now works as a security consultant making big bucks -- but she has her Master's in Criminal Justice. In a month, she graduates with a Ph.D in the field too. But it took her over 20 years to realize this.

 

Minimum for any high school graduate to go to college is 4 years of math, 4 years of english, 4 years of science, 3 years of Social Studies, and 2 years of foreign language. Not including extracurricular courses. I would over prepare versus under prepare the student. Kids do change their minds when Senior year looms. And once out of high school (in college), they change their major many times.

Edited October 12, 2012 by tex-mex

[G5052]

Almost every book I've read on homeschooling through high school recommends planning in middle school so that you get in the high school credits you need. Locally, I've seen a number of families who took it easy in middle school and then had a major panic in high school when the credits didn't fall into place. Middle school is important too.

 

I had a draft "plan" for each kid from about 3rd grade on to make sure that the end point is what I want. Naturally this plan has been revised quite a bit, but it felt good to hit 9th grade and know what the next four years were going to look like. I've revised a few things for my oldest as we switched from local classes to a smaller cadre of online classes in areas I'm not strong in, but that's really the only change we made. The basic course titles have remained the same since the end of 8th grade.

[SkateLeft]

His goal is to be a police officer and not to attend college.

 

Does he know where he hopes to work?

 

My dad is a retired cop. After retiring, he went to law school, worked as an attorney and eventually became a judge. He's currently an adjunct professor in criminal justice.

 

Many police departments require either a 2 or 4 year degree. If the degree was earned outside of the field of law enforcement, they'll usually require the completion of a certificate program.

 

So even if he wants to become a cop, he may still have to earn a college degree. He shouldn't assume that he won't need to go to college. Many departments that used to hire high school grads are now requiring at least some college coursework, if not a degree, or completion of a certificate program.

[tex-mex]

Does he know where he hopes to work?

 

My dad is a retired cop. After retiring, he went to law school, worked as an attorney and eventually became a judge. He's currently an adjunct professor in criminal justice.

 

Many police departments require either a 2 or 4 year degree. If the degree was earned outside of the field of law enforcement, they'll usually require the completion of a certificate program.

 

So even if he wants to become a cop, he may still have to earn a college degree. He shouldn't assume that he won't need to go to college. Many departments that used to hire high school grads are now requiring at least some college coursework, if not a degree, or completion of a certificate program.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[G5052]

So even if he wants to become a cop, he may still have to earn a college degree. He shouldn't assume that he won't need to go to college. Many departments that used to hire high school grads are now requiring at least some college coursework, if not a degree, or completion of a certificate program.

 

In my area, an associate degree is a requirement to be a cop in all of the surrounding counties. A friend of ours has a homeschooled son who wanted to be cop. His plan was to graduate from homeschooling and go to the police academy. And no one would hire him. Someone finally told him that he needed related experience and a degree to even be called in for an interview. So he got a security guard job and went to school. Then he had no problem getting a job, and actually had multiple offers.

 

Even the campus police at the college where I teach have associate degrees.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

His goal is to be a police officer and not to attend college.

 

Over my dead body.

 

Would a good tentative plan be four years of math, science, English, and history sprinkled with foreign language? I feel like I'm missing something.

 

This sounds like a pretty good starting point. As much as I like my dead and uncommon languages, it would probably be good to do a language that had some application in working with the public. Spanish is an obvious choice, but you might also find that there are significant pockets of other languages that would be worth study.

[tex-mex]

This sounds like a pretty good starting point. As much as I like my dead and uncommon languages, it would probably be good to do a language that had some application in working with the public. Spanish is an obvious choice, but you might also find that there are significant pockets of other languages that would be worth study.

:iagree:

 

Both of my police cousins were bilingual and fluent with reading/writing in Spanish. It really helped with promotions as well.

[Lori D.]

First: no problem about the age.

DS is doing 7th grade as 13yo; he can do 8th grade as a 14yo; and then start 9th grade as a 15yo, and graduate at age 19. There is a BIG trend toward graduating older, esp. for boys. And if he picks up the pace along the way, then you may just end up calling 8th grade 9th grade and graduate him at 18yo afterall. A LOT will change during the next 5-6 years!

 

Second: reverse engineering

It's a great way to give yourself a general high school plan to make sure you cover your bases. Just be willing to make it FLEXIBLE, because students have a tendency to make BIG changes along about age 16-18, in suddenly discovering an interest or career field they want to pursue.

 

To cover your bases for admission to a university, you'll want to include the following credits in high school (note: a "credit" = 1 full year-long high school course):

 

4 credits = English

4 credits = Math (Alg. 1, Geom., Alg. 2, a higher math that had Alg. 2 as a pre-requisite)

3-4 credits = Science, with labs (most frequently desired by colleges: Biology and Chemistry, but many colleges are flexible)

2-3 credits = Social Studies (most frequently desired: 1 year American History, 1 year World History or Geography, 0.5 year Government, 0.5 year Economics)

2-3 credits = Foreign Language (of the SAME language)

1-2 credits = Fine Arts (lots of flexibility here)

 

That comes out to 16-20 "required" credits for admission to college. That's 4-5 classes per year of high school, which leaves you 1-2 classes per year of high school to accomplish any state education graduation requirements, or any of YOUR requirements for his graduation from home school, or to allow him to pursue special interests. Check out the current admission requirements for incoming freshmen at a few universities that your DS might attend -- public and private schools -- and see if there are any additional "extra" credits they want to see.

 

More on planning for High School:

In this past thread, I laid out the steps to how to plan for high school, and then linked a load of threads on various topics; at this point I suggest looking at these two specific past threads on how to make a plan for high school: When formulating a high school plan, and Who else has an 8th grader and is making a high school plan.

 

 

Definitely check out any local Community College 2-year degrees in Law Enforcement -- sometimes there are FREE dual enrollment programs for specific vocational degree areas. Our local CC has a justice/law enforcement program of free dual enrollment for high school juniors and seniors. Also check out what kinds of coursework would be helpful for a 4-year degree in Justice/Law Enforcement, Forensics, and related fields.

 

Have DS start a little career exploration. Look at requirements for various areas in Law Enforcement. Also have him explore related fields -- jobs with DEA, Border Patrol, Emergency Services, military police, Military Reserves, etc. The Bureau of Labor's Occupational Outlook Handbook online is a great resource. Sometimes, when a DC sees what the REALITY of the job is, low level of pay or lack of benefits/advancement, or the amount of work that goes INTO getting to a goal (and often, much of it NOT what the DC is interested in), it can help the interest wane faster. ;) And, if DS really IS wired for this job, you will have done a fabulous work in preparing him above and beyond his peers to succeed in this field if it turns out to be what he is meant for!

 

And if DS is serious about this, sit down and make a list of things he could be doing now and in the next years to prepare:

- CPR and First Aid course

- EMT training through dual enrollment at CC

- martial arts and self-defense training/practice

- 4-H course in gun safety and target shooting

- participate in a "cadet" training program, either with local police force, or through Civil Air Patrol

- high school science that focuses on Anatomy, Chemistry, Physics, Forensics

- high school class in Psychology or Behavioral Science that would be specific to dealing with the public, crisis situations,

- public speaking course

- study skills course

 

 

You've got a great idea to be advance planning. BEST of luck, and don't fret -- DS may very well change his mind down the line! ;) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Lori D.

[Gwen in VA]

In 9th and 10th grade, I don't see the question of college or not as making THAT big a difference in what and how you teach him, so I think you can ignore that question for a year or two.

 

Sometime around the end of 10th grade you might want to have your son talk with any police or security folks you know. Have him talk to them about what it takes to succeed in that field now. If they are older, they should have at least seen resumes from new hires, so they still should have some idea of what type of background your son should be trying for. Conversations with real people may affect your son's college plans far more than you can!

 

My son had a period of over a year when he was adamantly anti-college. Meeting with a man in his desired field plus another man he really respected helped change his mind. He is now HAPPILY in the middle of the first semester of his freshman year.

[Chris in VA]

Just wanted to add, regardless of whether he goes to college or not--

 

I had my son do a Great Books based education because I wasn't sure that he'd ever take a college course in them, so I wanted to at least introduce him to great works of history/literature.

 

You may want to look at it from the perspective of preparing him for life, not just for a career. :001_smile:

[JanetC]

Over my dead body.

 

Be careful here.

 

He's young. You can insist on keeping other options open, but refusing to even consider his preferences might be a recipe for disaster.

[hsingscrapper]

Be careful here.

 

He's young. You can insist on keeping other options open, but refusing to even consider his preferences might be a recipe for disaster.

 

Very true. I just don't want to see him put all of his hopes on just one thing. Dh and I have been reminding him that it will look more favorably if he has a degree under his belt.

 

His PS experience was socially horrible. He's afraid of going back to a class room. We've explained to him, or tried to, that college students are paying to be there and his chances of being teased are almost non-existent.

[SuperDad]

Very true. I just don't want to see him put all of his hopes on just one thing. Dh and I have been reminding him that it will look more favorably if he has a degree under his belt.

He's only 13. The odds are low that he will end up actually becoming a cop. Don't worry too much.

[hsingscrapper]

He's only 13. The odds are low that he will end up actually becoming a cop. Don't worry too much.

 

I still want to make sure he's prepared.

[CyndiLJ]

I have an 8th grader this year and we are planning his high school years, thought we realize there will be modifications. He will be our first. We will have no choice but to send those of our children who wish to go to college to state schools due to costs, so we are gearing towards those requirements. Compared to what I am reading on this thread, it is a little different here in Colorado. We have a web site that all students through our homeschool/public school alternative program are required to work through http://www.collegeincolorado.org and it has a ton of terrific information on it. All the state schools have standardized their requirements, which makes it easier.

 

Surprisingly, they used to require NO foreign language, and now they are requiring only one year for acceptance. English and Math are 4 years, but Science and Social Studies are only 3 years each, with science requiring 2 years of lab work.

 

We are going to do 4 years of all four main subjects, unless a career oriented opportunity arises for study outside the home. At 8th grade, he is already growing clearer about what he knows he wants out of life...he wants a career that allows him to remain in the mountain areas/less populated areas of Colorado. Although he wants a career he enjoys, he is adamant that his career needs to allow him to remain in this neck of the woods, for that would bring him the most happiness. Considering he has said similar things since he was a little boy, I tend to take this as a firm guide for him.

 

He is in Civil Air Patrol and loves it, but due to a serious back issue will never be eligible for the military but he does want to pursue the highest rank possible in CAP (something I read only 1% of cadets ever accomplish) and he wants to get his pilots license through CAP before graduating. Because of the career possibilities that might open up to him, we want to build that into his high school plan. We are looking at a 2 year certificate course, with or without a degree (He will decide later) for GPS mapping/surveying offered at our local state university. He thinks this might be something to look at seriously.

 

While one reason we wanted to homeschool was to get off the "college is the end all and be all" bandwagon, we are going to prepare for a less selective college such as the two nearest our home, doing more than their minimum as I have a personal minimum that makes sense to me. Then, if he goes, great, and if not and he heads in a trade or tech direction, he will still have a well rounded high school education to help him succeed.

 

What I have found though, is that I am the one who needs the mental game plan, even if only a sketchy one. It makes me feel to uncomfortable to not have it a little laid out, and as long as I am flexible as things progress, then I think I will have peace of mind and he too can relax and enjoy his high school years with a clear sense of what is expected.

 

Cindy

[hsingscrapper]

Thank you! You've got me to thinking and most of the colleges around here require the Core 40 diploma for PS students but have far less rigorous requirements for homeschoolers.

 

I will have to do more research.