Looking for some input... (cc)

[*********]

Ok, first off, I need answers from those who identify as Christian AND who believe:

 

That fornication (s#x before marriage) is a sin.

 

That living/embracing a homos#xual lifestyle is a sin.

 

Please, I'm begging you. I'm not trying to debate these things. I fully understand there are those on this board that DO NOT agree with the above two statements. But I really DON'T feel like debating that right now. :tongue_smilie: I just need some advice input from people who DO agree with those two statements. PLEASE start another thead if you'd like to debate. :001_smile:

 

Ok.

 

There is someone in my life who has taken the following stand, and I don't know yet how I feel about it.

 

Person A says that their adult female child is not welcome to bring their girlfriend to Person A's home. (Said adult female child is openly homos#xual, and Person A has been introduced to adult female child's girlfriend.) Person A has explained their position on NOT welcoming adult child's girlfriend as the following:

 

"If adult child was openly fornicating/living with a boy, I wouldn't allow that boy in my house, either."

 

Person A has young children at home that are being taught that both homos#xuality and fornication are sins.

 

How do you feel, *as a Christian who also believes homos#xuality and fornication are sins*, about Person A's position of not welcoming the adult child's girlfriend into their home?

 

Two more bits of info that I think are relevant:

 

Adult child's young siblings who live at home do NOT know that adult child is openly homos#xual. They have breifly met adult child's girlfriend ONCE, and she was introduced as 'This is Sissy's friend'.

 

Also, neither adult female child NOR her girlfriend identify as Christians. This matters to me because I believe that it is not the place of a Christian to hold a NON Christian to THIER Christian beliefs. I hope that made sense. :tongue_smilie:

 

I'm not sure exactly how I feel about Person A's position. Honestly, it initially caught me off guard. And while I still don't feel comfortable with Person A's position, it is my, uh, *place*, if you will, to support Person A in their decision not to welcome adult child's girlfriend into their home.

 

Ugh. Yes, I realize many of you are able to read between the lines and figure out what I'm talking about. PLEASE, I need/want honest feedback; but help me follow board rules by NOT bashing. PLEASE.

 

Also feel free to PM me if you'd rather.

[Trish]

From the Catholic perspective both those things are sins. The people in question would be welcome in my home but could not sleep together overnight. We stick to that rule no matter how old the people are.

[*********]

From the Catholic perspective both those things are sins. The people in question would be welcome in my home but could not sleep together overnight. We stick to that rule no matter how old the people are.

 

So you would welcome an older sibling's homos#ual partner or fornication partner into your home, around your younger children? Just wanting to clarify.

 

Do you think it's wrong *Biblically* NOT to welcome them? If so, can you help point me to scriptures?

 

I'm really struggling here. I appreciate your input. :001_smile:

[The Girls' Mom]

That would be so hard, especially if the siblings were much younger.

 

However, I feel that part of my mission as a Christian is to show Christ's love to EVERYONE. We all sin. All sins are against God, not us. No sin is a small sin. How can I claim that, and still treat the sin of someone else differently than I treat my own sin?

 

I would make it clear that my beliefs are that their lifestyle is sinful. (just as I would if my adult child was blatantly committing any other sin) But I would not stop loving them or welcoming them into my home. I would ask that they not be openly affectionate with one another in my home or in front of my younger kids (just like I would ask them not to lie, steal, or any other sinful act) but they would be welcome here.

 

We have a lot of non-believing family and friends. Our house is open to them all, as long as they respect our house rules. (and they aren't hard rules...lol.) I cannot imagine not extending that grace to my own child.

[Chris in VA]

Hoo boy, that's a hard one.

 

I'm going to bring it into the light and say if it's your hubby, then...

 

If my opinion on something like this was in total opposition to my husband's, then I would feel I needed to honor him, and not go behind his back, talk against him to my step-daughter, or in any way be disparaging.

 

I would realize it's his home, too. I would try to talk to him about it, but ultimately, I would stand by him. I think.

 

As far as the dd, I think I'd handle it by meeting her elsewhere for social contact.

I think.

 

I just don't know.

 

If I felt he absolutely should be welcoming to his dd's significant other, I would encourage him to stay in the relationship without condoning the lesbianism. He would have to figure it out. And I would ask him to find a way to tell the younger kids about her choice to enter into that kind of relationship. (Not saying lesbianism is a choice--no comment. The choice comes into play here wrt the choice to have a girlfriend.)

 

Boy, you are in a hard spot. How to remain loving and KIND, to both your husband and your step dd.

 

:grouphug:

[Tess in the Burbs]

First, I am a Christian. I strayed a bit in college, but came back to my faith. My actions in college do not reflect my faith so don't judge. We all have a past.

 

In college I was dating my now dh. We went to visit my mom one weekend but she had decided to go camping an hour away. When we got there and saw the note I grabbed my camping gear and went to join them. But apparently she assumed I would grab a tent for both of us. Two tents. She was so upset I came with one tent for both of us.

 

First, she had no idea if we were fornicating in our relationship. She assumed we were.

Second, even if I had been fornicating with him, I sure wasn't going to do it in a tent next to my mother!!!:tongue_smilie::glare::lol::001_huh:

 

Since we had no other options we stayed in the tent together(future dh and I). Obviously against her wishes.

 

And it didn't make him feel welcome. AT ALL.

 

 

So in your case I feel this way: if she told the child not to bring this person ahead of time b/c there are younger kids in the house I think the child should respect that decision and come with this new partner friend. However, if they showed up not telling, I think the parents should not vocally make a scene. :D

 

People don't have to agree. But I do believe people can deal with the situation in adult ways and not freak out/scream and cause a scene. And I am kinda throwing this toward the adult child here. No, your parents don't have your views. They lived in a different time. Just like their parents didn't like most of what they did. And just wait until your kids are teens....it just goes downhill with every generation the awfulness of behavior allowed!!! Don't expect us parents to mold to your view. Everyone has to learn to respect personal choices. And the Christians can pray for their salvation.

[*********]

Hoo boy, that's a hard one.

 

I'm going to bring it into the light and say if it's your hubby, then...

 

If my opinion on something like this was in total opposition to my husband's, then I would feel I needed to honor him, and not go behind his back, talk against him to my step-daughter, or in any way be disparaging.

 

I would realize it's his home, too. I would try to talk to him about it, but ultimately, I would stand by him. I think.

 

As far as the dd, I think I'd handle it by meeting her elsewhere for social contact.

I think.

 

I just don't know.

 

If I felt he absolutely should be welcoming to his dd's significant other, I would encourage him to stay in the relationship without condoning the lesbianism. He would have to figure it out. And I would ask him to find a way to tell the younger kids about her choice to enter into that kind of relationship. (Not saying lesbianism is a choice--no comment. The choice comes into play here wrt the choice to have a girlfriend.)

 

Boy, you are in a hard spot. How to remain loving and KIND, to both your husband and your step dd.

 

:grouphug:

 

Oh Chris. Thank you for your gracious post.

 

Person A has taken the stand that it is NOT a good idea to inform the younger siblings about the adult child's choice to have an openly homos#xual relationship. So no, they won't be explaining to the young siblings about Sissy's girlfriend; that is, until if/when the children figure it out/start asking questions. Person A doesn't feel it's necessary to 'flaunt', if you will, the sins of Sissy to the younger children like that. I support that decision.

 

I am being supportive of Person A's decision. It is their home, and it is my place to support them in their decision, even while gracefully expressing that I don't fully agree with it.

 

And I also agree with you that Person A should be encouraged to maintain relationship with their adult child. I DO do this. And you're right; right now, the best I can do is stay in contact with adult child in places OTHER than Person A's home.

 

Person A is doing the best they can with maintaining an open relationship with their adult child. This is hard on Person A. Trust me; I know.

 

Thank you and bless you for being so understanding and kind. Truly, it means a lot. :)

Edited October 12, 2012 by bethanyniez

[rwjx2khsmj]

I do believe that both fornication and homosexuality are sins. I also believe that there are a host of other sins that we don't focus on because they hit too close to home or are not as easy to identify.

 

If we begin to exclude people from our lives and homes because they are sinners we will be very lonely.

 

I'd reference John 8:1-7. I also believe that only Christ was able to tell her to go and sin no more because He was without sin. The rest of us will have to leave that to God.

 

I'd be praying very hard about how to lovingly welcome them and still honor God. I'd also be praying about reconcilliation between person A and daughter because only God can fix that.

[*********]

If we begin to exclude people from our lives and homes because they are sinners we will be very lonely.

 

 

I VERY much agree with you here.

 

However, Person A would argue that they are not welcoming adult child's partner into their home because adult child is OPENLY, HAPPILY embracing their sin.

 

This is not a person who is struggling with sin; like all of us do. This is not a situation where a person is convicted, mourning, repenting of their sin.

 

This is a situation where the adult child is openly, happily, even defiantly engaging in sin. Adult child currently has NO plans to repent of their homos#xuality, to repent, to strive to live according to the word of God.

 

That's what makes this situation so hard. If said adult child were openly, happily engaging in another sin; for example fornication, stealing, ilicit drug use; Person A would not allow the sin in their home, either.

[K&Rs Mom]

That would be so hard, especially if the siblings were much younger.

 

However, I feel that part of my mission as a Christian is to show Christ's love to EVERYONE. We all sin. All sins are against God, not us. No sin is a small sin. How can I claim that, and still treat the sin of someone else differently than I treat my own sin?

 

I would make it clear that my beliefs are that their lifestyle is sinful. (just as I would if my adult child was blatantly committing any other sin) But I would not stop loving them or welcoming them into my home. I would ask that they not be openly affectionate with one another in my home or in front of my younger kids (just like I would ask them not to lie, steal, or any other sinful act) but they would be welcome here.

 

We have a lot of non-believing family and friends. Our house is open to them all, as long as they respect our house rules. (and they aren't hard rules...lol.) I cannot imagine not extending that grace to my own child.

 

:iagree: I have thought about this regarding a relative, and luckily it hasn't been an issue because of distance - they live far enough away we rarely see them. I still love my relative, and accept his "friend" as a friend - actions they choose sometimes when they're alone has nothing to do with how they behave in public, especially at extended-family gatherings. I guess if they were acting in a way that my kids would notice, that would be different. If they were going to spend the night with us, I'd give them separate rooms - same as any unmarried couple. For a day visit, they'd both be welcomed here.

[NavyMommy]

This would be a really hard one for me, but we are going through something very similar now. I hold the same beliefs that Person A does; however, I do welcome said family member into my home with the understanding there are boundaries, and they will be sleeping in separate rooms and we ask them to not show affection towards one another while in our home out of respect. When another close family member came to visit who was living with her boyfriend at the time (now her husband) we applied the same rules to them.

 

I believe that since we are all sinners we are to love one another in the example Jesus set forth for us. Just as he showed love and mercy to the adultress when it was not required I also feel it is our place to show love to those in our lives whose sins may be more 'prominent' then our own. However; I also believe it is our duty as parents to protect our children and their minds so if anything were to happen where my ability to do this was in jeopardy, no they would not be welcomed. So far though we haven't had any trouble with our rules, and most of our family members agree.

 

Person A has taken the stand that it is NOT a good idea to inform the younger siblings about the adult child's choice to have an openly homos#xual relationship. So no, they won't be explaining to the young siblings about Sissy's girlfriend; that is, until if/when the children figure it out/start asking questions. Person A doesn't feel it's necessary to 'flaunt', if you will, the sins of Sissy to the younger children like that. I support that decision.

 

This is the same stance we have taken (although it's not an older sister, but another family member). Their "partner" will just be considered a 'friend' until the time that the children are old enough to understand / ask and then we will have the discussion. At the moment though our children are to young to understand and comprehend so we are shielding them from this until they are ready for it.

[K&Rs Mom]

That's what makes this situation so hard. If said adult child were openly, happily engaging in another sin; for example fornication, stealing, ilicit drug use; Person A would not allow the sin in their home, either.

 

Allowing the sin in their home is different than allowing the person in their home. This person is not going to be engaging in those actions when they stop by for lunch (if they are, that's a whole different problem). Just like someone who uses illegal drugs isn't going to be shooting up when they stop by for lunch (and if they do, again it's a different problem). You can welcome both the child and the child's "friend" as friends, as fellow humans, without approving of some of their actions. I know plenty of people whose actions I don't like, and I'm sure they don't like some of my actions, but we can get along most of the time because those actions don't define who we are as people.

[T'smom]

I believe those statements. But I believe that the admonitions to not be judgmental and be loving towards everyone are more important. There are a LOT of verses in the bible about loving each other. If one of my children was homosexual, they would still be welcome in my house. Their significant other would still be welcome. They wouldn't be allowed to spend the night in the same room under my roof. (also wouldn't allow that with a member of the opposite sex) I would treat the SO as I would if they were the opposite sex.

[TammyS]

The "partner" or whatever you want to call the person would not be welcome in my home at any time for any occasion. Just because we need to extend love to people does not, IMO, mean that we extend acceptance of their choices, and to welcome them together into my home would be acceptance and support as I see it. Actually, I think it is NOT a loving action to just accept everything that people choose and be ok with it.

 

Differently, if the daughter were not in a relationship with this person but "just friends" (in reality, not in a "technically" type of way) then I would allow the person in my home, as long as they were clear who we are and that their lifestyle was not going to be accepted, but didn't necessarily have to be a matter for discussion, either. I would also insist that they keep this particular "truth" about themselves to themselves as I have young children who do not need to know about these things (my almost 14 year old only recently learned what it was, and that is because of an elections course he is taking and the subject came up there).

 

The daughter would always be welcome in our home, though not with any partners, ever. Nor would she be welcome to discuss the matter with the younger children. If she wouldn't respect that restriction, she would not have access to them.

[Catwoman]

Bethany, I don't have any applicable advice here, because I wouldn't have a problem allowing the dd and her girlfriend into my home, but I do think you should ask "Person A" if he believes that his dd will one day decide she's not a lesbian any more, because if she doesn't (and let's face it, she probably won't,) will he never allow her partner into your home... ever?

 

My biggest worry is that he will end up losing the relationship with his dd, and that they will both end up hurting over this situation for many years into the future.

 

I don't think he has to agree with her lifestyle, nor do I think he needs to condone it, but if he's completely intolerant, he may end up pushing her away completely. I hope they are able to come to a compromise. I don't believe that she can force him to accept every aspect of her lifestyle, because he has probably held his beliefs for more years than she has been alive, and it's unreasonable for her to assume that the entire game has changed because she announced that she's a lesbian. But hey, she's his dd, so hopefully he'll be able to modify things a bit so that they can reach some sort of "happy medium" that will work for both of them.

 

One other question -- is she having a serious relationship with the other girl, or is she more of a casual girlfriend? If it's just a casual thing, it's probably not a big deal if she doesn't bring her home to meet Person A, but if it's serious, wouldn't you like to know what kind of person she is?

 

Again, I'm trying to look at this from the POV of someone who considers this to be sinful, but in reality, I would accept my own ds no matter what his preference was. Sure, I hope he grows up and likes women, but if not, I'll be OK with it, as all I really want for him is that he's happy. (I'm not trying to start a debate here; I just wanted to let you know where I'm coming from, so you'll realize that I may be missing something important about your beliefs. I have no problem with you and Person A doing whatever feels right to you, and what goes along with your faith.)

 

Whatever you decide to do, I hope Person A is able to maintain a loving relationship with his dd.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Catwoman

[Catwoman]

I have no problem excluding people who want to talk about their sex life in front of children from my home. That's not why I invited them and its not courteous to me to turn the event into something else.

 

I think that's an excellent point. I don't want anyone talking about their sex lives or pawing each other in front of my child. I don't care if they're gay or straight or in love with a houseplant. Keep it private, people!

[*********]

The "partner" or whatever you want to call the person would not be welcome in my home at any time for any occasion. Just because we need to extend love to people does not, IMO, mean that we extend acceptance of their choices, and to welcome them together into my home would be acceptance and support as I see it. Actually, I think it is NOT a loving action to just accept everything that people choose and be ok with it.

 

Differently, if the daughter were not in a relationship with this person but "just friends" (in reality, not in a "technically" type of way) then I would allow the person in my home, as long as they were clear who we are and that their lifestyle was not going to be accepted, but didn't necessarily have to be a matter for discussion, either. I would also insist that they keep this particular "truth" about themselves to themselves as I have young children who do not need to know about these things (my almost 14 year old only recently learned what it was, and that is because of an elections course he is taking and the subject came up there).

 

The daughter would always be welcome in our home, though not with any partners, ever. Nor would she be welcome to discuss the matter with the younger children. If she wouldn't respect that restriction, she would not have access to them.

 

This is exactly how Person A feels.

 

FWIW, adult child has never tried to discuss the matter with her younger siblings. She is respectful enough of Person A's beliefs/teachings to the children that she doesn't do that. However, I agree with Person A that adult child cannot be trusted to not display any PDA with partner in front of the younger siblings. I think *that's* what Person A is trying to avoid.

 

Well that, and to be completely truthful, Person A is still struggling with the idea that their adult child is living a homos#xual lifestyle. :( Person A is kind and nice to adult child, but this whole thing has put quite a strain on the relationship.

[Rebecca VA]

I agree with KandRs Mom. I would be polite to someone's "partner," but I would not allow a shared room or public displays of affection. If that person were not willing to abide by my rules, I would have to tell them they couldn't stay.

 

We have a gay family member -- he's someone we almost never see (because he lives many states away), but he sends our children generous gifts and calls us occasionally. He makes no apologies for his lifestyle, but he is extremely careful not to offend others by defiantly forcing it upon them. He knows our Christian stance and respects it. We appreciate him so much.

 

Jesus never condoned sin. He did not tolerate it. He offended people all the time by reminding them of specific sins in their lives, and if they were not willing to repent he didn't waste his time arguing with them. He wasn't nasty about it, but he took a firm stance.

[*********]

Bethany, I don't have any applicable advice here, because I wouldn't have a problem allowing the dd and her girlfriend into my home, but I do think you should ask "Person A" if he believes that his dd will one day decide she's not a lesbian any more, because if she doesn't (and let's face it, she probably won't,) will he never allow her partner into your home... ever?

 

Thanks for your post, Cat.

 

Yes, this is Person A's belief/prayer; that adult child will no longer embrace the sin of homos#xuality. I support that position.

 

And yep, as of right now, Person A would say that they will never allow any homos#xual partner of adult child into their home. That's why I posted; to get some advice regarding this situation.

 

I don't think he has to agree with her lifestyle, nor do I think he needs to condone it, but if he's completely intolerant, he may end up pushing her away completely.

 

One other question -- is she having a serious relationship with the other girl, or is she more of a casual girlfriend? If it's just a casual thing, it's probably not a big deal if she doesn't bring her home to meet Person A, but if it's serious, wouldn't you like to know what kind of person she is?

 

Again, I'm trying to look at this from the POV of someone who considers this to be sinful, but in reality, I would accept my own ds no matter what his preference was. Sure, I hope he grows up and likes women, but if not, I'll be OK with it, as all I really want for him is that he's happy. (I'm not trying to start a debate here; I just wanted to let you know where I'm coming from, so you'll realize that I may be missing something important about your beliefs. I have no problem with you and Person A doing whatever feels right to you, and what goes along with your faith.)

 

Whatever you decide to do, I hope Person A is able to maintain a loving relationship with his dd.

 

Adult child and partner have been together for quite some time. It is as 'serious' as 18 year olds get. :D

 

I personally have been striving to get to know adult child's partner, while still not condoning/agreeing with adult child's homos#xuality. I want to konw that adult child is ok. I care. I love adult child. And she knows it.

 

It's a hard balancing act. Person A and I are both walking unchartered territory for us. We're trying to do our best.

[missmoe]

I feel your pain Bethany. I was/am in Person A's situation--except it is a BIL instead of a child.

 

Here is my take on the situation. The children at home are young right now and it is possible to shelter them. I worked hard to do the same thing. Now my kids are all teenagers. They are aware of what is going on. They have seen the relationship while at other relatives' homes during holidays, ect.

 

Something my dh and I have had to work real hard at doing is being open to talking about what they are aware of. AFter most family functions we have an open discussion about the family. We talk about loving people and accepting their choices while making our own choices based on what we believe. It's been especially hard on me to be able to do that. But I need to trust that my children's testimonies will help them to make good choices. And if they don't, they need to know I will not love them any less. Just as my Heavenly Father does not love me any less when I sin.

 

Is Person A going to be able to talk about this person and their choice in a loving kind manner when their children become aware of the relationship? And I don't mean that kind and loving needs to be accepting of the choice.

 

I ask this because I think that rejecting this child in this manner affects those other children seeing this rejection. It closes doors of communication with all the children. How is Person A going to react when other children make choices that differs from Person A's?

 

I maybe totally off base and Person A may have a good relationship outside their home. And if that is the case I'm sorry I jumped to conclusions.

[Catwoman]

 

Well that, and to be completely truthful, Person A is still struggling with the idea that their adult child is living a homos#xual lifestyle. :( Person A is kind and nice to adult child, but this whole thing has put quite a strain on the relationship.

 

I can understand that, if she suddenly announced it out of the blue, and it wasn't something he already suspected was the case.

 

If this is all still relatively new to him, the smartest thing his dd can do for him is to give him time to adjust before she throws a girlfriend into the mix. If he's still getting used to the idea that his dd is a lesbian, it won't be helpful to see her smooching with some girl on the couch. (For that matter, most fathers aren't all that excited about their dds smooching with some guy on the couch, either.)

[Denisemomof4]

I want to be like Chris when I grow up.:001_smile:

[TammyS]

this whole thing has put quite a strain on the relationship.

 

Of course it has. People like to say that "we're all sinners and need to accept each other", but that isn't what is happening here. This is the active embrace of a sinful lifestyle. Take the homosexuality aspect out and substitute something else....professional jewel thief, serial killer, abortionist...would people openly and happily embracing those things be welcome happily at the dinner table?

 

BTW, as a Catholic, I do not embrace the concept that all sin is equally sinful. We have the concepts of mortal and venial sin, which goes something like this:

 

A mortal sin cuts off our relationship with God. In order for a sin to be mortal it must meet three conditions:

 

1. Must be serious/grave matter (so stealing a pencil will never be a mortal sin)

2. We must have knowledge that it is sinful and grave (so you cannot accidentally commit a mortal sin)

3. We must, of our own free will, choose to do it even though we know it's sinful and grave

 

All sins that are not mortal are venial, that is sins which damage (to whatever degree) but do not cut off our relationship with God.

 

And just for clarity's sake, even when we cut off our relationship with God through a mortal sin, does not mean that the relationship is irreparable. It means that WE have walked away. God is always willing to take us back. There are no unforgivable sins, only unrepentant sinners.

[*********]

Is Person A going to be able to talk about this person and their choice in a loving kind manner when their children become aware of the relationship? And I don't mean that kind and loving needs to be accepting of the choice.

 

Yes, Person A will do that. Person A and I a have frank and open conversations with the younger children even now, when they see someone they love openly sinnning. It's hard, but we do it. And the bolded is exactly the balancing act we're living regarding adult child.

 

I can understand that, if she suddenly announced it out of the blue, and it wasn't something he already suspected was the case.

 

If this is all still relatively new to him, the smartest thing his dd can do for him is to give him time to adjust before she throws a girlfriend into the mix. If he's still getting used to the idea that his dd is a lesbian, it won't be helpful to see her smooching with some girl on the couch. (For that matter, most fathers aren't all that excited about their dds smooching with some guy on the couch, either.)

 

Um, it's not 'new' to person A. Person A has known for over two years now. But person A still is not going to ever be *comfortable* with adult child having a girlfriend.

 

I want to be like Chris when I grow up.:001_smile:

 

I know, right? :)

[Catwoman]

It's a hard balancing act. Person A and I are both walking unchartered territory for us. We're trying to do our best.

 

Hey, your best is all you can do. :grouphug:

 

It sounds like you're both doing everything you can to support her, and to make sure she's OK, but it's going to take a while to figure out exactly how everything will work now that there is a serious girlfriend involved. You're getting to know the girlfriend on a casual basis, which I think is a good thing, and you're not banning dd from your home, so I think that's a really good start.

 

I don't think anyone can criticize you for not knowing exactly how to handle this. If it wasn't a moral/religious issue for you, it would be different, but I don't think it would be fair of anyone to say that you and Person A have to change your entire belief system in order to accommodate your dd's lifestyle, and hopefully your dd realizes that, as well.

 

You still love her, and she knows it, and that's the most important thing.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Catwoman

[*********]

Hey, your best is all you can do. :grouphug:

 

It sounds like you're both doing everything you can to support her, and to make sure she's OK, but it's going to take a while to figure out exactly how everything will work. You're getting to know the girlfriend on a casual basis, which I think is a good thing, and you're not banning dd from your home, so I think that's a really good start.

 

I don't think anyone can criticize you for not knowing exactly how to handle this. If it wasn't a moral/religious issue for you, it would be different, but I don't think it would be fair of anyone to say that you and Person A have to change your entire belief system in order to accommodate your dd's lifestyle, and hopefully your dd realizes that, as well.

 

You still love her, and she knows it, and that's the most important thing.

 

Thanks Cat. That last bolded part? That IS the most important thing.

 

I pray for 'adult child' daily. I love her so much. Yes, I want her to turn from her sin and turn towards the Lord. That is my prayer. I also want her to *see* the love of Christ in my life towards her.

[TammyS]

It is as 'serious' as 18 year olds get. :D

 

 

This is all the more reason to support your dh's position, IMO. I would be unlikely to take any 18 year old's relationship seriously. :)

[NavyMommy]

I don't know where exactly your beliefs lie, but I started doing some searching and came across this book. Link I think I am going to get it on my nook, just to see if it can give me a different perspective. Thought it might be helpful to you as well.

[*********]

I don't know where exactly your beliefs lie, but I started doing some searching and came across this book. Link I think I am going to get it on my nook, just to see if it can give me a different perspective. Thought it might be helpful to you as well.

 

Thank you for the link. That looks like an interesting book.

[Twinmom]

I have an older DSS(31) with much younger sibs (see siggy). DSS has made a rather rough life for himself and we had to tell him to move out twice while he was in his late teens, but he has always been welcome in our home (just not to live there and expose the younger sibs to his lifestyle). It's been tough to walk the line of grace vs. acceptance, so I feel your pain. :grouphug:

 

DSS has been living with his girlfriend in recent years, but has had the grace to keep that quiet around his sibs. We have chosen to pray for them earnestly but also to extend grace to them and welcome them lovingly into our home. She has been welcome at family events but not to stay overnight. This has worked well because they have both been respectful of our views and acted appropriately in front of the children. Well, they are now being blessed with a surprise pregnancy (not a shocker here for us, but it was for them!)...a baby boy due in about a month. Situation suddenly changes!

 

They want to get married for the sake of the child (and because they do love each other) but are unable to do so without losing medical coverage for the birth. Both are upset about the whole thing. Now, we must sit down with the younger sibs and explain the situation in full. We have been clear with the young ones that their brother chose to sin and was dealing with the consequences, but that we love them both and that a baby is always a welcome blessing...just complicated in this case. We will support their family as is until it can legally and morally fully become one, for the baby's sake, because we love the adult kids involved and because Christ loved us and forgave us many sins as well. For now, DSS and his fiancé will be welcome overnight here together because it is in the child's best interests. We'll see what we do going forward. Much will be determined by their respect for our position and their plans for the future.

 

It's tough all around, but I guess I feel that it is best to err on the side of grace, mercy and love as I think that is what Jesus calls us to do. They make it easier by respecting our point of view...if they did not, we would need to make changes. Regardless, we choose to deal with it by making our position gently known, praying for them earnestly, but welcoming them as Jesus does all sinners to come to Him, just as they are.

 

HTH.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Twinmom

[mommaduck]

 

1. Must be serious/grave matter (so stealing a pencil will never be a mortal sin)

2. We must have knowledge that it is sinful and grave (so you cannot accidentally commit a mortal sin)

3. We must, of our own free will, choose to do it even though we know it's sinful and grave

 

 

The person is not a Christian and obviously does not view it as sinful and grave.

[TammyS]

The person is not a Christian and obviously does not view it as sinful and grave.

 

I make no judgement at all about whether the person views it in any way or whether the persons are culpable or to what degree. My point was only that all sins are not, in fact, equally sinful.

[*********]

I make no judgement at all about whether the person views it in any way or whether the persons are culpable or to what degree. My point was only that all sins are not, in fact, equally sinful.

 

Let's not debate that here in this thead, ok ladies?

[justamouse]

I do believe that both fornication and homosexuality are sins. I also believe that there are a host of other sins that we don't focus on because they hit too close to home or are not as easy to identify.

 

If we begin to exclude people from our lives and homes because they are sinners we will be very lonely.

 

I'd reference John 8:1-7. I also believe that only Christ was able to tell her to go and sin no more because He was without sin. The rest of us will have to leave that to God.

 

I'd be praying very hard about how to lovingly welcome them and still honor God. I'd also be praying about reconcilliation between person A and daughter because only God can fix that.

:iagree:

 

I will share a story from my own life, and what my priest guided me to do.

 

My oldest son started living with his girlfriend. Something also happened that was devastating to our family. It was FULLY within my rights to not allow her into our house. Fully.

 

I brought the problem to my priest, and he said that it was rightful for me to ask them for some time to calm my emotions, but that if I fully closed our doors to HER, I would be closing our doors to HIM, and that God *loves* us into His kingdom, He doesn't punish us into Kingdom.

 

I would be lying to say that I threw open the doors and hugged her. It took me time, a lot of prayer, and a lot of forgiveness on my part, but NOW, that is bearing fruit.

[mytwomonkeys]

well. i would never disown my child or close myself off from them. if my child was homosexual or in a relationship that involved premarital sex, they would both be allowed in my house. they would not be able to sleep together under our roof or have all kinds of PDA, but i would not push them away from me. i would love them. i don't have to agree with something to love them.

[Trish]

So you would welcome an older sibling's homos#ual partner or fornication partner into your home, around your younger children? Just wanting to clarify.

 

Do you think it's wrong *Biblically* NOT to welcome them? If so, can you help point me to scriptures?

 

I'm really struggling here. I appreciate your input. :001_smile:

 

I side with Miss Manners on this. What they do behind closed doors (or in their front yards) is their business. As long as it isn't happening in my house, or we're allowing unmarried couples to share a room at night, then it isn't our business. I guess your point is that they are *known* to be committing these sins, therefore do they need to be banned? I don't think so.

 

If the kids were old enough to be aware and ask about it, I'd use it as a teaching moment: "Yes, we consider that a sin, but everyone is on a different spiritual journey, and we don't shun people just because they don't take the same path we do," etc.

 

I would draw a practical line over some matters, such as someone who was involved with drugs, they would not be welcome depending on the degree of drug involvement. Generally speaking, I don't think shunning people draws them toward God AT ALL, and I would do my best to maintain the relationship as long as I felt it wasn't harmful to my kids, and we weren't in the position of putting our stamp of approval on it by allowing the behavior in our house.

 

I don't have any Biblical advice because Catholics tend to go by the catechism, rather than specific scriptural passages, although the catechism has lots of Biblical support.

[Trish]

:iagree:

 

I will share a story from my own life, and what my priest guided me to do.

 

My oldest son started living with his girlfriend. Something also happened that was devastating to our family. It was FULLY within my rights to not allow her into our house. Fully.

 

I brought the problem to my priest, and he said that it was rightful for me to ask them for some time to calm my emotions, but that if I fully closed our doors to HER, I would be closing our doors to HIM, and that God *loves* us into His kingdom, He doesn't punish us into Kingdom.

 

I would be lying to say that I threw open the doors and hugged her. It took me time, a lot of prayer, and a lot of forgiveness on my part, but NOW, that is bearing fruit.

 

:iagree: :grouphug:

[*********]

I don't have any Biblical advice because Catholics tend to go by the catechism, rather than specific scriptural passages, although the catechism has lots of Biblical support.

 

Um, I'm not quite sure what you're saying here, but I'm not Catholic. :001_smile:

[8circles]

However, Person A would argue that they are not welcoming adult child's partner into their home because adult child is OPENLY, HAPPILY embracing their sin.

 

This is not a person who is struggling with sin; like all of us do. This is not a situation where a person is convicted, mourning, repenting of their sin.

 

This is a situation where the adult child is openly, happily, even defiantly engaging in sin. Adult child currently has NO plans to repent of their homos#xuality, to repent, to strive to live according to the word of God.

 

That's what makes this situation so hard. If said adult child were openly, happily engaging in another sin; for example fornication, stealing, ilicit drug use; Person A would not allow the sin in their home, either.

 

I sympathize with Person A because we have a somewhat similar situation in our extended family. I used to feel as Person A did also, even though now I don't think I fully fit your belief requirements, I do understand them & I don't wish to debate it either. But, to the bold - I don't believe I know anyone who is convicted, mourning, & repenting of ALL their sins. I know I'm not. I even have sins that I'm aware of, convicted of inside, but I pretend that I'm not to most other people. I'm flawed. Terribly flawed. There are things that I have openly, happily embraced - even as an adult Christian, not that long ago - that I have since been convicted of. This is an ongoing process throughout our whole lives. We need to love each other through it. ALL of it.

[LostSurprise]

I skimmed a bit but didn't read anything because I wanted to get my own mind straight on this first.

 

Christ did not shy away from sinners. He ate with them. He went into their homes. I don't doubt that he would have invited them into his own home (sinners were present when he fed people). If I emulate Christ I accept sinners as sinners and as human beings. I recognize my own humanness.

 

Has anyone noticed that an argument cements both positions? To me, refusing to allow her daughter entrance to her home, refusing to be open with the siblings is creating a wall. The decision is not creating a conversation with her older daughter (a conversation which might lead to repentance, and in the very least will keep a door open and continue the relationship) and its not protecting the younger children. The younger children will find out and when they do it won't be with their mother's guidance. By themselves they will start thinking that if they sin their mother will isolate them from the family. She'll hide everything. So they'll hide everything from her.

 

I'm not saying she's not within her rights to exclude an unsafe person from her home, and perhaps dd seems unsafe to her right now. But she is creating a dichotomy where sin is outside and only those she approves of are within. Eventually that might be a lonely place. My father, a very conservative man with similar problems, has found it to be a lonely place. Not that he's outlawed people from his home but everyone knows that they can't have a real conversation with him. There is much he doesn't know about his children.

[susankenny]

In these situations, I think people get afraid. They think if they allow sinners in their home that they are condoning the sin and agreeing with it. Jesus lived contrary to that belief. I think Person A should too. Love is already defined for us in the Bible. We have a clear example of what it looks like in action.

 

 

Susan

[susankenny]

well. i would never disown my child or close myself off from them. if my child was homosexual or in a relationship that involved premarital sex, they would both be allowed in my house. they would not be able to sleep together under our roof or have all kinds of PDA, but i would not push them away from me. i would love them. i don't have to agree with something to love them.

 

I sympathize with Person A because we have a somewhat similar situation in our extended family. I used to feel as Person A did also, even though now I don't think I fully fit your belief requirements, I do understand them & I don't wish to debate it either. But, to the bold - I don't believe I know anyone who is convicted, mourning, & repenting of ALL their sins. I know I'm not. I even have sins that I'm aware of, convicted of inside, but I pretend that I'm not to most other people. I'm flawed. Terribly flawed. There are things that I have openly, happily embraced - even as an adult Christian, not that long ago - that I have since been convicted of. This is an ongoing process throughout our whole lives. We need to love each other through it. ALL of it.

 

I skimmed a bit but didn't read anything because I wanted to get my own mind straight on this first.

 

Christ did not shy away from sinners. He ate with them. He went into their homes. I don't doubt that he would have invited them into his own home (sinners were present when he fed people). If I emulate Christ I accept sinners as sinners and as human beings. I recognize my own humanness.

 

Has anyone noticed that an argument cements both positions? To me, refusing to allow her daughter entrance to her home, refusing to be open with the siblings is creating a wall. The decision is not creating a conversation with her older daughter (a conversation which might lead to repentance, and in the very least will keep a door open and continue the relationship) and its not protecting the younger children. The younger children will find out and when they do it won't be with their mother's guidance. By themselves they will start thinking that if they sin their mother will isolate them from the family. She'll hide everything. So they'll hide everything from her.

 

I'm not saying she's not within her rights to exclude an unsafe person from her home, and perhaps dd seems unsafe to her right now. But she is creating a dichotomy where sin is outside and only those she approves of are within. Eventually that might be a lonely place. My father, a very conservative man with similar problems, has found it to be a lonely place. Not that he's outlawed people from his home but everyone knows that they can't have a real conversation with him. There is much he doesn't know about his children.

 

:iagree:

[UnsinkableKristen]

 

However, Person A would argue that they are not welcoming adult child's partner into their home because adult child is OPENLY, HAPPILY embracing their sin.

 

 

 

 

If Person A makes this line in the sand for everyone, with every sin, then his home is going to be a very lonely one for the rest of his life. And if he is only willing to draw the line in the sand for *this* person and *this* sin, then he needs to examine his motivations and emotions more deeply.

[amy g.]

I agree, person A has every right to exclude anyone from his home. I would respect his decision more if I found out he was also excluding people who gossip or overeat.

[KungFuPanda]

I skipped pages, BUT from the stance that EVERYBODY is living in some sort of sin, it seems an unwise method for sorting people out of your life. Why can't the friend welcome the daughter and partner in love, but insist they sleep separately or elsewhere?

[*********]

I agree, person A has every right to exclude anyone from his home. I would respect his decision more if I found out he was also excluding people who gossip or overeat.

 

 

I know, I know Amy. I get it. TRUST me I know and get it.

:tongue_smilie:

 

Thanks ladies.

 

And if you're so inclined, prayer is always appreciated as I figure this all out.

[Melinda in VT]

I don't fit the criteria you stated in the OP, but I used to. Back when I did, I remember reading advice to parents in a similar situation. The couple in question felt like they needed to behave like Person A, for similar reasons (younger children in the home, etc.).

 

The advice given was to think very carefully about what choice would keep the adult child closest to God. If all the Christians ban her from their homes, or ban her partner and make her feel unwelcome, how is that helping her feel the love of God or stay as close to him as possible?

 

I see Jesus encouraging us to consider our own sins. I don't see him encouraging us to monitor other people's sins or setting up criteria about who is pure enough for us to eat with. Quite the opposite.

[Catwoman]

I would respect his decision more if I found out he was also excluding people who gossip or overeat.

 

But if he does that, he's not going to invite any of us over for cake and coffee any time soon. :glare:

 

 

;) ;) ;)

[Catwoman]

 

And if you're so inclined, prayer is always appreciated as I figure this all out.

 

I'll pray for you guys.

 

I'm sure this is hard for you, Bethany, because it sounds like you may be inclined to be a bit more moderate in your approach to dd's lifestyle (even though you don't approve of it,) yet you still want to support your husband, so you're sort of stuck in the middle. :grouphug:

[amy g.]

But if he does that, he's not going to invite any of us over for cake and coffee any time soon. :glare:

 

 

;) ;) ;)

 

Well, that might be a good thing.