If you believe God created the earth....

[sbgrace]

My son is asking a lot of questions and I've been doing a bunch of research. My head is spinning a bit and I'm coming away with mixed feelings about how to present things. I'm actually an Old Earth creation person so I'm particularly interested in the thoughts of others who come from that perspective.

 

I'm wondering which view best represents your current thoughts:

 

1. young earth or literal 6 day creation

2. old earth-day/age--but chronological in that days represent ages/science will support the Genesis 1 account

3. old earth topical--the Genesis account is a topical grouping or representation of creation and not meant to be specific or scientifically correct

4. allegorical, literal or representative but not literal account of creation

 

I *think* theistic evolution could fall into any of the last few categories.

Edited October 12, 2012 by sbgrace

[Crimson Wife]

I would say that I lean towards an age of the universe in the billions and theistic evolution. I believe that God exists outside of the human conception of time, and therefore the "days" of creation could represent something other than 144 modern hours. There could also be a gap between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 like some theologians believe.

 

However, as all things are possible for God, I am open to the possibility of a more recent creation in the equivalent of 144 modern hours of a seemingly "old" earth with fossils already in it, light already en route, etc.

 

I don't know, but I don't think reading Genesis as a literal historical and scientific narrative is necessary for believing that the Bible is the true Word of God.

[GSOchristie]

We are studying Genesis in BSF this year, and after reading the notes for the past month or so, I'm leaning toward old earth, ages. I believe God could have created it in 24 hours (or the blink of an eye), but he may or may not have. One interesting point that has been brought up is the sun wasn't even created until the third or fourth day, so our concept of a 24 hour sun cycle wasn't even in place on the first few days. God could have still been working on a 24 hour clock, but I'm starting to think it was a longer period of time.

[Melissa in Australia]

I would say that I lean towards an age of the universe in the billions and theistic evolution. I believe that God exists outside of the human conception of time, and therefore the "days" of creation could represent something other than 144 modern hours. There could also be a gap between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 like some theologians believe.

 

However, as all things are possible for God, I am open to the possibility of a more recent creation in the equivalent of 144 modern hours of a seemingly "old" earth with fossils already in it, light already en route, etc.

 

I don't know, but I don't think reading Genesis as a literal historical and scientific narrative is necessary for believing that the Bible is the true Word of God.

:iagree:

[rootsnwings]

I am an old earth creationist but I don't really have a view as to how it all came to be. I don't know. I don't think there is any way to know for certain but I definitely believe the earth/universe/life has been around a LOT longer than 2000 years.

[joannqn]

I'm an other.

 

I don't think it is possible to know. The answer doesn't affect my faith or my salvation. I think that when the Bible and science have conflicted in the past, it has turned out that the Bible was correct (or not inaccurate since the Bible is not a scientific document) all along. I think that if science ever does figure the beginning of the universe, we'll find that it meshes with the Bible just fine.

[abacus2]

other - I think old earth or "appearance of age", which is the same thing scientifically. Any of your listed biblical interpretations are possible. I am most intrigued by a possible explanation I read years ago that the theory of relativity would allow for six literal days from the perspective of the origination point of the universe to equal a literal millions of years from our earthly perspective. Also God is outside of/created time so the concept of how long he took to create the world is a human rather than a God perspective anyway.

[Lara in Colo]

I am more of an Old Earth believer. I think a lot of the Bible is written to help explain things peoples of that time couldn't.

 

It doesn't change my faith. It doesn't change what He did for me (personally) yesterday. It doesn't change my belief that He is awesome (deserving awe) and powerful and deserving my worship. His actions of 100 million years ago do not change my worship of Him today.

[SunnyDays]

I voted other... I lean more toward an OE theory, but I just think that we can't really know for sure if or how science and the Bible are supposed to correlate. And I agree with the others, it doesn't affect my faith one way or the other, nor does it affect my belief in the Bible as God's Word.

[tntgoodwin]

I am a YEC, I believe God created the Earth in 6 literal 24 hour days.

I also don't believe it is a hill worth dying on, and it wouldn't affect my faith if it were one of those other options listed.

[Snow]

I don't know, but I don't think reading Genesis as a literal historical and scientific narrative is necessary for believing that the Bible is the true Word of God.

 

I agree with this.

[marbel]

I am more of an Old Earth believer. I think a lot of the Bible is written to help explain things peoples of that time couldn't.

 

It doesn't change my faith. It doesn't change what He did for me (personally) yesterday. It doesn't change my belief that He is awesome (deserving awe) and powerful and deserving my worship. His actions of 100 million years ago do not change my worship of Him today.

 

:iagree: I went through a period of feeling that I needed to figure it all out in order to teach my children. But I've become more and more comfortable with "we just don't know, and it doesn't matter."

 

One thing I feel confident about is - someone started all this. I can't look at certain things in nature - hummingbirds, love-in-a-mist flowers, my children - and say this all started from some random process. How and when it started is beyond my understanding and my need to know.

[PrincessMommy]

I voted:

 

old earth--allegorical, literary, or otherwise representative account

 

I also don't look at Genesis account as if it were a scientific log book.

 

The thing I taught my children when we were going through this is that there are many ways to interpret the account but just because someone may disagree with me doesn't mean they're not a Christian or don't love God..etc. etc.

[K&Rs Mom]

One interesting point that has been brought up is the sun wasn't even created until the third or fourth day, so our concept of a 24 hour sun cycle wasn't even in place on the first few days. God could have still been working on a 24 hour clock, but I'm starting to think it was a longer period of time.

 

:iagree: The 24-hour day only happens on earth - the rest of the universe has different lengths of days (not saying none of them could be 24 hours, but many more are not). So a "day" in the Bible can't reference "the time it takes the earth to go around the sun," until there was already an earth and a sun.

[Parrothead]

OE creationist (literary/allegorical) who believes in theistic evolution.

[tomandlorih]

I'm an other.

 

I don't think it is possible to know. The answer doesn't affect my faith or my salvation. I think that when the Bible and science have conflicted in the past, it has turned out that the Bible was correct (or not inaccurate since the Bible is not a scientific document) all along. I think that if science ever does figure the beginning of the universe, we'll find that it meshes with the Bible just fine.

:iagree: This! A theory I was raised with was that creation took 7,000 years based on 2 Peter 3:8

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

So 7,000 years of creation + 6,000 years of history = a young Earth. My dad still holds an old Earth (Millions/billions) creationist theory which is pretty much would have described my beliefs too. Now, I'm not so sure.

 

My dd just listened to Vision Forum's Jonathan Park audio drama series and it presented the case for YE pretty convincingly.

[CheerioKid]

God created time for our sake...he has no need of it. I believe the Bible was given to us in a context that we understand. The creation account specifically says, "there was evening and morning the first day". I believe that the 24 hour day was part of the plan from the very first day. If it were not so, the account would say something besides, "there was evening and morning the first day".

 

He gave us a wonderful earth and universe with plenty of things to do and find, inside and out...I don't think it is billions of years old, but rather that man is trying to stretch the short time this world has been here out over billions of years, because it makes more sense that way. If you don't believe in God or creation, then there is no reason to question the "billions of years" theory. Scientists "date" fossils and other findings based on a misguided timeline that has already been established because "evolution" needs billions of years to take place. That will not change until the scientific community as a whole rejects evolution. I believe fossils are truly fossils of animals and plants that existed all along, and the chronology of the scientists research may be fairly accurate, but nothing is as old as they say it is.

 

I don't see how we, as teachers can look at the "simplest" life forms, basic one-celled organisms and not see God. A single microscopic cell is so perfectly DESIGNED that man cannot even figure out how the flagellum works. I cannot comprehend the possibility that single cells, or any organism for that matter, happened by accident. That is just. not. possible.

[Kim in Appalachia]

I fall somewhere between old earth topical and old earth allegorical. I don't think Scripture is meant to be a science book. It is the story of God's redemption of His people.

[JenC3]

God is, was, and always will be, so for Him there is no time. My understanding is the earth is older than 10k, making me an old earth.

[Lovedtodeath]

My son is asking a lot of questions and I've been doing a bunch of research. My head is spinning a bit and I'm coming away with mixed feelings about how to present things. I'm actually an Old Earth creation person so I'm particularly interested in the thoughts of others who come from that perspective.

 

I'm wondering which view best represents your current thoughts:

 

1. young earth or literal 6 day creation

2. old earth-day/age--but chronological in that days represent ages/science will support the Genesis 1 account

3. old earth topical--the Genesis account is a topical grouping or representation of creation and not meant to be specific or scientifically correct

4. allegorical, literal or representative but not literal account of creation

 

I *think* theistic evolution could fall into any of the last few categories.

I believe that the YECs have it mostly right... I have yet to see an example of evolution which added to the genome rather than turning genes on or off, or sorting them. In the case of life forms, they started out with more genetic information available (more variety available) and speciated from there, in much the same way we ended up with a lot of different dog breeds. Speciation actually occurs much more rapidly than evolution would predict. Let me know if you want a couple of articles that talk about this.

 

I also think that the flood and the ice age explain a lot of evidence really well, and that Woolly Mammoths did not all die out in the flood.

 

Michael Oard is my favorite scientist that deals with origins because he sticks to the facts and his theory rather than making it about religion or making fun of people that hold different views.

 

I voted other

[Mrs Mungo]

:iagree: This! A theory I was raised with was that creation took 7,000 years based on 2 Peter 3:8

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

So 7,000 years of creation + 6,000 years of history = a young Earth. My dad still holds an old Earth (Millions/billions) creationist theory which is pretty much would have described my beliefs too. Now, I'm not so sure.

 

My dd just listened to Vision Forum's Jonathan Park audio drama series and it presented the case for YE pretty convincingly.

 

Huh. I am more familiar with the idea that the verse in question indicates that God is outside of time.

 

God created time for our sake...he has no need of it. I believe the Bible was given to us in a context that we understand. The creation account specifically says, "there was evening and morning the first day". I believe that the 24 hour day was part of the plan from the very first day. If it were not so, the account would say something besides, "there was evening and morning the first day".

 

Yeah, I can't agree with this. There are lots of poetic structures within The Bible (especially the bits that seem to come from an earlier oral tradition) that are not meant to be taken literally.

 

I don't see how we, as teachers can look at the "simplest" life forms, basic one-celled organisms and not see God. A single microscopic cell is so perfectly DESIGNED that man cannot even figure out how the flagellum works. I cannot comprehend the possibility that single cells, or any organism for that matter, happened by accident. That is just. not. possible.

 

This thread is for Christian creationists. eta: Sorry, people who believe that God created the earth. Just because we don't believe it happened in seven days, doesn't mean we don't see God's handiwork.

 

For those of you seeking to understand OEC better, there is a great website that tells about various theories and pieces of evidence: http://www.oldearth.org/old.htm

Edited October 12, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[Kathryn]

I voted:

 

old earth--allegorical, literary, or otherwise representative account

 

I also don't look at Genesis account as if it were a scientific log book.

 

The thing I taught my children when we were going through this is that there are many ways to interpret the account but just because someone may disagree with me doesn't mean they're not a Christian or don't love God..etc. etc.

 

:iagree:

[Jayne J]

My degree is in Literature. I believe something can be literary *and* True. Literal is not the only possible understanding of true. I voted Literary/allegorical. Like many other posters I din't think it is ultimately knowable nor is it a salvation issue.

[Ellie]

Young earth. I believe science supports a young earth/special creation. I'm not hung up a literal six days of Creation, but I just don't believe that everything evolved from slime on a rock (even if God created the slime and the rock).

[Miss Marple]

Here is an excellent series that goes through the theories of OE, YE, and Big Bang, creation/evolution. He treats the subject with respect and knowledge. He has a theology degree as well as a physics degree. This is the best treatment of the subject I've heard. I didn't find it to be terribly one sided as I have found others.

 

This is a lecture I required my sons to listen to when we were doing Biology. It is one you have to purchase, but you get a download link rather quickly. I felt it was well worth the money.

 

http://www.capernwray.org.uk/Product.php?pid=65

[Lovedtodeath]

I find this scripture interesting:

 

"When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour." Revelation 8:1

[Pawz4me]

I'm somewhere between OE/days represent ages and OE/allegorical. I've not found anything in the Bible or the theory of evolution that to my way of thinking precludes belief in both.

[mytwomonkeys]

YE ...6 days

[mytwomonkeys]

I am a YEC, I believe God created the Earth in 6 literal 24 hour days.

I also don't believe it is a hill worth dying on, and it wouldn't affect my faith if it were one of those other options listed.

 

i agree with this. it isn't something that causes division or judgment for me, and i certainly don't think christians that hold a different POV are somehow less authentic or anything. i hope they feel the same about me.

[stripe]

This thread is for Christian creationists.

 

It is? I thought it was for anyone who believes in God.

[Twinmom]

You need an "I'm not smart enough to know but I believe that God created the earth and will let us know the details of said creation's timeline when we get to heaven" category! ;)

 

I'll choose other and go with that! :D

[DianeW88]

Meh....I don't care and I'm not sure why this is such a big issue in Christian circles. Seriously, who cares???

 

I don't believe that the word "day" in the Bible means a 24 hour period. I think it was simply a word used to indicate the passage of time.

 

But honestly, WHY is this such a stinking, huge divisive issue in Christianity now? No one EVER brings this up in my church (LDS). It honestly does not matter one way or another. Our faith is in our Savior Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice which allows us to return to live with our Father in Heaven someday. The rest is details as far as I'm concerned.

[Mrs Mungo]

It is? I thought it was for anyone who believes in God.

 

Sorry, anyone who believes that God created the earth. The post I was replying to seemed to imply that people who believed in an old earth did not believe in God.

[TN Mama]

I'm an other.

 

I don't think it is possible to know. The answer doesn't affect my faith or my salvation.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Lovedtodeath]

It is? I thought it was for anyone who believes in God.

 

Mrs. Mungo was responding to this:

 

I don't see how we, as teachers can look at the "simplest" life forms, basic one-celled organisms and not see God.

The point is that everyone here agrees with this statement, so why post it?

This thread is for Christian creationists. Just because we don't believe it happened in seven days, doesn't mean we don't see God's handiwork.

[Lovedtodeath]

Meh....I don't care and I'm not sure why this is such a big issue in Christian circles. Seriously, who cares???

 

I don't believe that the word "day" in the Bible means a 24 hour period. I think it was simply a word used to indicate the passage of time.

 

But honestly, WHY is this such a stinking, huge divisive issue in Christianity now? No one EVER brings this up in my church (LDS). It honestly does not matter one way or another. Our faith is in our Savior Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice which allows us to return to live with our Father in Heaven someday. The rest is details as far as I'm concerned.

I don't understand why it is a big issue as far as being divisive among Christians, but the OP is wanting to teach her child. Does she teach creation as a religion and not teach the science thus her kid grows up goes to college learns about evolution and says, "This religion is all bogus?"

 

Or perhaps the OP has family members that say that they have no interest in God or the Bible at all because "science explains so much". For those people it is a big deal.

[Mynyel]

I would say that I lean towards an age of the universe in the billions and theistic evolution. I believe that God exists outside of the human conception of time, and therefore the "days" of creation could represent something other than 144 modern hours. There could also be a gap between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 like some theologians believe.

 

However, as all things are possible for God, I am open to the possibility of a more recent creation in the equivalent of 144 modern hours of a seemingly "old" earth with fossils already in it, light already en route, etc.

 

I don't know, but I don't think reading Genesis as a literal historical and scientific narrative is necessary for believing that the Bible is the true Word of God.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself!

 

We are the same way, old, young or in between. For us we know God created it, we don't much care how long it took and in the whole grand scheme of life it doesn't really matter anyway. :)

[stripe]

Sorry, anyone who believes that God created the earth. The post I was replying to seemed to imply that people who believed in an old earth did not believe in God.

Got it, thanks for clarifying.

[Snow]

I voted:

 

old earth--allegorical, literary, or otherwise representative account

 

I also don't look at Genesis account as if it were a scientific log book.

 

The thing I taught my children when we were going through this is that there are many ways to interpret the account but just because someone may disagree with me doesn't mean they're not a Christian or don't love God..etc. etc.

 

Yep, this is how I voted and I feel exactly the same way!

[southernm]

I don't understand why it is a big issue as far as being divisive among Christians, but the OP is wanting to teach her child. Does she teach creation as a religion and not teach the science thus her kid grows up goes to college learns about evolution and says, "This religion is all bogus?"

 

Or perhaps the OP has family members that say that they have no interest in God or the Bible at all because "science explains so much". For those people it is a big deal.

 

It's a big deal to me, as I am in the exact same spot. I don't know what I truly believe. I have a 5 yo dd going to Christian school coming home wanting to pray. It is wonderful! Then, I have a 7yo DS who is the king of logic and is stuck on "who created God". My friend tells me to just say no one. That answer just won't work for him. I need a way to learn for myself and guide him as well. I don't know what to do!

[Mrs Mungo]

It's a big deal to me, as I am in the exact same spot. I don't know what I truly believe. I have a 5 yo dd going to Christian school coming home wanting to pray. It is wonderful! Then, I have a 7yo DS who is the king of logic and is stuck on "who created God". My friend tells me to just say no one. That answer just won't work for him. I need a way to learn for myself and guide him as well. I don't know what to do!

 

The site I posted above has some good articles on discussion this with kids. http://www.oldearth.org/old.htm

[Lovedtodeath]

It's a big deal to me, as I am in the exact same spot. I don't know what I truly believe. I have a 5 yo dd going to Christian school coming home wanting to pray. It is wonderful! Then, I have a 7yo DS who is the king of logic and is stuck on "who created God". My friend tells me to just say no one. That answer just won't work for him. I need a way to learn for myself and guide him as well. I don't know what to do!

I have to plug my favorite site too: creation.com. There answers have always made the most sense to me. I searched that question here: http://creation.com/article/6399

[southernm]

The site I posted above has some good articles on discussion this with kids. http://www.oldearth.org/old.htm

 

I have to plug my favorite site too: creation.com. There answers have always made the most sense to me. I searched that question here: http://creation.com/article/6399

 

Thank you both! I'm looking through them now, this could take awhile!

[Lovedtodeath]

Their answers... their. and you quoted me. ugh! I teach my kids grammar. lol

[southernm]

Their answers... their. and you quoted me. ugh! I teach my kids grammar. lol

 

lol, sorry!

[Susan in KY]

I think you need another "other category. I don't agree with the concept of macro-evolution. I believe in God's creation of all things in the order they were created, but I don't necessarily believe that the word we translate as "day" means a literal 24 hours. It can also mean "epoch" (I think). I pretty much come down on the side of days being days once there was a sun and moon to measure them, but it's murky. Also, the Bible says a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day to the Lord. So, time means nothing to him. He is beyond time. We are the only ones who get all hung up about it.

 

At one point, the earth was formless and void—and could have been for a very long time. Who knows but God himself? The biggest thing I want to remember is that God can do whatever he pleases in whatever time frame he chooses to. He is perfectly capable and able to create it all in a short while. Do I necessarily think he did? Maybe not, and the Biblical text leaves room for that difference.

 

Regardless, I think the more pressing concern is the unfortunate fact that *we* are destroying it pretty fast. :(

[Caitilin]

Susan in KY said:

Regardless, I think the more pressing concern is the unfortunate fact that *we* are destroying it pretty fast.

 

I agree, this is the salient point, and one which is generally overlooked in these discussions. :(

[Aunty Social]

.

[Crimson Wife]

But honestly, WHY is this such a stinking, huge divisive issue in Christianity now?

 

Because for a certain subset of Christians, being anything other than a YEC reading Genesis as a literal historical and scientific account means questioning the truth of the Bible as a whole. Other Christians do not accept this assertion, hence the big theological controversy.

[SonshineLearner]

I totally believe in the 6 day creation. I understand that it's hard to understand, but of course things can be created in a way that they are not "just born" whether man or animal. Here's the thing, if I can't believe the earth could be created in a way The Creator chose, why would I believe the born of a virgin, died on a cross, rose again, coming back... as well as performed miracles part.... I mean, from my mind, most of this is beyond imagination! Creation is the start... but all of it is incredible!! :)