What would YOU do in a co-op situation

[DawnM]

We have a very informal co-op. There are 5 moms and it is just for 2 classes (kind of just one as it is Language Arts, but we are splitting it into reading and writing). I teach one and another mom teaches the other. There are no littles so no need for babysitting/childcare in addition to the teaching.

 

We have met 5 times since the start of the year.

 

One mom has shown up only twice. It is always some excuse.....we don't feel well, I had to go out of town, or an I forgot!

 

When she HAS come, both times she has been late by over 15 minutes. She lives not far from our co-op location and blames traffic. I drive 5 times as far as she does (I live much further out) and arrive on time each time.

 

So far the other moms feel like since it isn't formal we should just let it slide and say that you only get out of it what you put in to it, and let it be. They ARE in agreement with telling them NOT to make a scene when they enter and telling our kids NOT to give attention to the late comer as it is very disruptive.

 

I personally feel it is disruptive anyway as her child has missed the first 15 min. of class and then she starts in with, "Now, what did you say before we got here? My child is lost." UM, YEAH! Your child is LOST and it is not my job to help him/her catch up!

 

I am of the "great, now we really NEED to make some hard and fast rules" camp.

 

I will also add that this mom does get on my nerves in other ways, so I may be biased towards having her leave the group when it really shouldn't happen.

 

What do you think?

 

Dawn

[Lara in Colo]

By helping her to catch up you are enabling the situation. I would tell her that they can get the stuff they missed after class.

 

I do think that it is disruptive to the rest of the class and should be stopped.

I would pull her aside and ask her what you can do to stop the issue.

 

your suggestions to her to perhaps wake her up:

 

Could you send her with next weeks stuff so they can preview it (or even an email the night before)?

What can she do to make the class on time?

Is this time an issue (too close to something else she is doing?)

[Ellie]

We have a very informal co-op.

Do you think it will ever be larger and more formal?

 

So far the other moms feel like since it isn't formal we should just let it slide and say that you only get out of it what you put in to it, and let it be.

:iagree:

 

They ARE in agreement with telling them NOT to make a scene when they enter and telling our kids NOT to give attention to the late comer as it is very disruptive.

:iagree:

 

I personally feel it is disruptive anyway as her child has missed the first 15 min. of class and then she starts in with, "Now, what did you say before we got here? My child is lost." UM, YEAH! Your child is LOST and it is not my job to help him/her catch up!

Some people never figure out things like this by their onesie. So, yeah, y'all are gonna have to tell her to suck it up.

 

I am of the "great, now we really NEED to make some hard and fast rules" camp.

Only if you think this small, informal co-op will ever be larger and more formal. If the former, then no. Y'all just take her aside and tell her to be on time, and if she can't, then it's her bad, and she shouldn't disrupt classes when she arrives. If the latter, then yes, y'all should make some rules, such as if you're more than 10 minutes late for a class, then you miss that class. And if you're the teacher, someone else will start teaching; if you are late more than once, then you're out. I'm not very merciful when it comes to things like chronic lateness. :glare:

 

I will also add that this mom does get on my nerves in other ways, so I may be biased towards having her leave the group when it really shouldn't happen.

BTDT, too. That's why it's a good thing that there are others who can mellow you out. :)

[Carol in Cal.]

I would establish the rule that the kids have to come in quietly. Smile at them and keep going when they arrive.

 

I also would not entertain questions from the late mom. I would go talk to her privately and say that we are going to need to stay on track, and that you are no longer going to 'catch the kids up' during the other kids' class time--that that is not fair to the rest.

 

And then I would be welcoming and cheerful but stick to those things. And my guess would be that she will quit or change, and either one would be an improvement perhaps. But if she stays the same, and stays in the group, at least the primary issues are dealt with and the family will no longer be disruptive even if they are late.

[Dmmetler]

I teach a NME prep class at my house, and have a couple of flaky moms. I just integrate their kids in at whatever point we're at-without going backwards. So, if the kids have all done their God/Goddess presentations, and we're on to playing a game, I'll involve the kids who come in with the game, but we're not going to stop the game so they can do their presentations-that ship has sailed. I'll send home any print materials, but I won't take time to go over them. I don't take time to listen to excuses-just "Jamie, we're doing call it right now-here are your cards"-and go on. And having taught group mom and tot music classes for years, I'm not shy about saying "We're in class now, moms, please save your conversation for the snack time or go outside the room so the kids can hear each other-thanks" when overdramatic flaky mom wants an audience.

 

In general, I'm finding the flaky ones often just plain drop out when they're not getting attention for their stories and tales of woe-and that's fine with me-but it's THEIR choice to do so, not me forcing them out.

[Catwoman]

I would tell her that, although we like her and we think her kids are great, she has to start showing up regularly and on time, or her kids will no longer be able to participate in the co-op.

 

I don't care if it's a small group -- in fact, I think her behavior is even more inexcusable because of that!

 

It's ridiculous that she should keep getting a pass for her poor and inconsiderate behavior. Sure, everyone is a little late sometimes, or doesn't feel well, but if she has actually forgotten to show up, it's pretty clear that the group isn't a priority for her, so why would you feel badly about giving her the boot if she doesn't shape up? :confused:

[TammyS]

I would tell her that, although we like her and we think her kids are great, she has to start showing up regularly and on time, or her kids will no longer be able to participate in the co-op.

 

I don't care if it's a small group -- in fact, I think her behavior is even more inexcusable because of that!

 

It's ridiculous that she should keep getting a pass for her poor and inconsiderate behavior. Sure, everyone is a little late sometimes, or doesn't feel well, but if she has actually forgotten to show up, it's pretty clear that the group isn't a priority for her, so why would you feel badly about giving her the boot if she doesn't shape up? :confused:

 

:iagree:

 

If the co-op is multi-period, you could just make a rule that latecomers will not gain entry to classes in progress.

 

I have to say, though, that I have personally given up on co-ops altogether. Seems like it's impossible to find a group of people where everyone is on the same page about things and is willing to actually live up to the arrangements that are made (as in: being on time, being prepared, making an honest effort to complete assignments, taking it seriously in general, etc.). I was also in a small co-op last year and when it fell apart it was devastating, because we had all been good friends. Now some people won't speak to other people and it is all just heartbreaking (in fairness, I think the root issues with some people go back to stuff in their lives, but the co-op seemed to be the stage that it got played out on for some reason).

 

For a co-op to be successful, I really think that it requires extremely, extremely, extremely mature people who are able to have conflict and confrontation and not take things personally (ie: telling someone they need to be on time needs to be taken at face value and not translated into some version of "i hate and look down on you"). That is really hard, it turns out, for most grown women to do.

 

Or, people who equally don't care what actually gets done and are just in it for a social event (which is actually fine if expectations are clear).

[Catwoman]

:iagree:

 

If the co-op is multi-period, you could just make a rule that latecomers will not gain entry to classes in progress.

 

I have to say, though, that I have personally given up on co-ops altogether. Seems like it's impossible to find a group of people where everyone is on the same page about things and is willing to actually live up to the arrangements that are made (as in: being on time, being prepared, making an honest effort to complete assignments, taking it seriously in general, etc.). I was also in a small co-op last year and when it fell apart it was devastating, because we had all been good friends. Now some people won't speak to other people and it is all just heartbreaking (in fairness, I think the root issues with some people go back to stuff in their lives, but the co-op seemed to be the stage that it got played out on for some reason).

 

For a co-op to be successful, I really think that it requires extremely, extremely, extremely mature people who are able to have conflict and confrontation and not take things personally (ie: telling someone they need to be on time needs to be taken at face value and not translated into some version of "i hate and look down on you"). That is really hard, it turns out, for most grown women to do.

 

Or, people who equally don't care what actually gets done and are just in it for a social event (which is actually fine if expectations are clear).

 

:iagree:

 

You agreed with me, and now I'm agreeing with you! :thumbup:

[justasque]

We have found it somewhat helpful to have two starting times, like this:

 

10am - meet & greet

10:15 - class begins

 

It kind of defines that "get here, take off coats, catch up, etc." time that is going to happen, and lets people know it's ok to arrive before class starts. Doesn't help the die-hard late folks, but can help some.

 

I agree with the suggestions to start on time and not catch up latecomers.

[Farrar]

My experience is pretty much only with small informal co-ops like that. And in all of them, if someone was late, we'd just start late. I know, not the answer you're looking for at all.

 

See, it's all very well for people to suggest rules, rules, rules and consequences, consequences. But come on, this is a group of FIVE families. In practical terms, it's just a bit silly, I think. As Ellie said, if your goal as a co-op is to get bigger and more serious, then okay, making policies that will help you grow might make sense, but otherwise I don't think so.

 

When you have a group that size, things have to really work in terms of the personalities, I think. When there's a conflict, an odd person out or something, then that tends to upset the whole balance. Sometimes it's true that someone needs to go... but as everyone else seems fine with her, it sounds like that's not going to happen. I'd just let it go, honestly.

[justasque]

My experience is pretty much only with small informal co-ops like that. And in all of them, if someone was late, we'd just start late.

 

I see what you're saying, but the problem is the drift. If you decide to start at 10:15 instead of 10, people will start coming at 10:30, KWIM? So I think you don't need to make a huge deal about it, but since this family doesn't even always show up, I wouldn't alter things too much to bend to their needs. Consider the 4 families the core of the co-op, do what works for them, and if the 5th shows up you can blend them in as best you can, but I wouldn't water things down to catch them up, etc. "<aside> Hi John, come in and sit down, we've already started. I'll catch you up after class. <turning back to class> Now Jane, what were you saying?"

 

Now if there's a reason they're late, like they're coming from another activity, you can tweak things. But at some point, you have to make things work for the 4, KWIM?

[KungFuPanda]

I shamelessly lie to chronically late people. In my troupe, one of my fellow dancers is always given an arrival time 30 minutes before the rest of us. She arrives when we do. She doesn't know that we tell her a different time.

 

One well known dance instructor locks her door and starts class on time. Late comers are let in 15 minutes later. Nobody is late for her class more than once.

I now have a chronically late kid in my class at our large co-op. I think she was on time the first day. I'm hesitant to give the child consequences because her mother is a flake.

[TammyS]

I now have a chronically late kid in my class at our large co-op. I think she was on time the first day. I'm hesitant to give the child consequences because her mother is a flake.

 

But somebody is going to get the consequence. You can't avoid that.

 

It can be her, and hopefully by extension her flakey mother.

 

Or it can be you and your class, by having the interruption of a late person.

 

But it is unavoidable that someone is getting the consequence.

[happypamama]

As someone who tends to be late often (because I'm terrible at estimating how long it will take to get ready), but not routinely 15 minutes late, and I'm really, really working on it this year (successfully thus far), I tell my kids to slip in as quietly as possible, and if they have missed something, just do the best they can, and we'll catch them up later. I think it's not fair to the other families in the group if you take up class time to catch up another child.

 

Our co-op is pretty good-sized this year, and we have a check-in/meet-and-greet/socializing time, then prayer and announcements, then picture study, and then the first class. We start prayer and announcements on time, but that way, if someone is late, at least they're not automatically missing class time. Our classes are only an hour each, so it would be frustrating to stop and have to repeat something for a latecomer (especially if it's frequent).

[DawnM]

Let me clarify a few things.

 

1. We only have the room for 1.5 hours. Starting late means we will not complete every item we need to complete.

 

2. Two moms have sports after the class and HAVE to leave on time or they will be late to their sports practices.

 

3. I will not just start whenever this woman chooses to arrive. For one thing, she may not even show up at all! I never know. For another, if 4 families can get there on time and one knows we will just wait for her, she will just come whenever she feels like it. Or not come at all.....if she doesn't feel like it.

 

4. Even though it is "informal" in that we don't want it to become a large group, we do want the kids to come prepared and ready to learn. 4 of us take this class pretty seriously. If we didn't, we would just do it on our own at home. 4 of us are very like minded and have very similar goals for our kids. I have no idea what mom #5's goals are, she has never shown up for the planning sessions either! :glare:

 

5. I am a former PS teacher and counselor. I can't even imagine being late for work! I worked for over 16 years and I was late ONE time.....because I was broadsided by someone running a stop sign and I ended up in the ER. Otherwise, I was religiously on-time. In the counseling office we dealt with parents who brought their kids in chronically late. We had a very hard and fast rule.....3 tardies equals one full day of an unexcused absence. Unexcused absences did NOT require teachers to give make up work. You would just get an F. It has to hurt or the behavior doesn't change.

 

See, I am getting upset about this again. I am a rule follower. People who think rules are only for other people drive me crazy.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Breathing, breathing........

 

At the very least we need to establish the boundary of coming in quietly!

[DawnM]

Thank you all for your input. I do see I need to calm down about this, even though I don't really want to! :001_huh:

 

And she may end up dropping out on her own. She has been known to be rather flaky.

 

Dawn

[Catwoman]

I think it's not fair to the other families in the group if you take up class time to catch up another child.

 

 

I think it's unfair to a volunteer co-op teacher to have to regularly remain after class to "catch up" a kid who is always late.

[Catwoman]

Thank you all for your input. I do see I need to calm down about this, even though I don't really want to! :001_huh:

 

And she may end up dropping out on her own. She has been known to be rather flaky.

 

 

 

I'm not so sure you need to calm down about it.

 

I know that some people are suggesting that you have to be relaxed because it's a small group, but since when is it OK for one person to consistently inconvenience everyone else?

 

I don't see why she couldn't be told that if she wants her kids to participate in the co-op, she has to get them there on time, every time. For crying out loud, this woman sometimes forgets to show up at all! I'm sorry, but I see no reason to extend special courtesy to a woman who can't even be bothered to remember to show up some of the time, and who is late the rest of the time.

 

No one has to be mean about it, but she absolutely needs to be told that her behavior is unacceptable. If no one insists that she follow the rules, the situation will only get worse, not better.

[KungFuPanda]

Thank you all for your input. I do see I need to calm down about this, even though I don't really want to! :001_huh:

 

And she may end up dropping out on her own. She has been known to be rather flaky.

 

Dawn

 

So just tell her that if she is late to remain outside the room until the teacher invites her to join the class. This gives the instructor control over the interruption and lets her choose her stopping point so that she can complete a sentence/thought/topic. Also tell her to direct any questions about what was missed to the instructor's email.

 

I chose to go with it because mine is not an academic class with serious time constraints. It's 75 minutes of dancing and we can easily adjust to folks moving about. However, YOUR choice is to put up with it OR to make your expectations and consequences clear. An email spelling out these expectations will do it for most people. Some people, however, only respond to consequences. She has had NO consequences thus far. If she shows up to a locked door with a note instructing her to wait until you let her in, she'll realize you mean business.

[wintermom]

I think it's unfair to a volunteer co-op teacher to have to regularly remain after class to "catch up" a kid who is always late.

 

:iagree: Actually, why do you call it a "co-op" when only two parents are involved in the teaching? Are the other parents supporting the learning in other ways? If a family is missing classes and arriving late, and not contributing anything to the group, then what are they doing there?

[Zebra]

I think the fact that she is showing up late is annoying, but asking for you to "catch her kid up" is plain rude.

 

I think next time she wants you to catch Johnny up you should say something very calm and concise. Like, "Well, that's why you need to be here on time." and continue with your lesson. I guess maybe that's going to come across as mean, but I can't think of any more pleasant way to deal with it. The other kids can't suffer just because Johnny is late. Maybe Johnny will be so embarassed he will get Mom out the door earlier too.

 

Honestly, she sounds like she's just a pain :D .

[Farrar]

I see what you're saying, but the problem is the drift. If you decide to start at 10:15 instead of 10, people will start coming at 10:30, KWIM?

 

I think ideally, if you have a group this small, then everyone needs to have a similar level of commitment, or be on the same page about the expectations, at the very least. Like I said before, the personalities have to mesh. In the groups I've been in, when the times slide and it gets to be a problem, someone says something and everyone slides them back - because we all respect each other and each other's needs.

 

Obviously, if you have the space for a limited time and everyone has to go afterwards, then running late isn't an option. It's not really optimal anyway.

 

It sounds like this family really doesn't fit. And it seems silly to do anything for them if they've only bothered to show up a couple of times... But I also got the vibe, reading the OP, that her attitude was also out of sync with everyone else's. And I'm going to guess that's at least as frustrating as the flaky family's tardiness and rudeness.

[QuirkyKapers]

I am a rule follower. People who think rules are only for other people drive me crazy.

:iagree: I am too. I would tell the mom that it is fine if she arrives late, but it isn't fair to the rest of the class to "be put on hold" just because someone arrives late. When I arrive late, I don't expect everyone to stop everything just to accommodate me. After all, the world doesn't revolve around me ;)

[DawnM]

Honestly, they are annoyed, but they don't want to make waves. That seems to be their concern, the conflict that will ensue. They would rather just let it be, although they have all made comments about, particularly when they show up late and expect us to stop and re-cap what they missed.

 

I am more of the mind to get it all out and deal with it.

 

But I also got the vibe, reading the OP, that her attitude was also out of sync with everyone else's. And I'm going to guess that's at least as frustrating as the flaky family's tardiness and rudeness.

[wintermom]

Honestly, they are annoyed, but they don't want to make waves. That seems to be their concern, the conflict that will ensue. They would rather just let it be, although they have all made comments about, particularly when they show up late and expect us to stop and re-cap what they missed.

 

I am more of the mind to get it all out and deal with it.

 

One of my favourite and most respected high school teachers locked her classroom door at the start of class. Late students waited outside until she opened it (at a natural break in her lesson). You could make a general announcement that the door will be locked as of x time, and each family can make the choice to show up on time or not. No confrontation or discussion, just information provided.

[elegantlion]

I am chronically on time for everything, I cannot stand to be late. In this case, I think you can safely use the limited time you have for the room, and the fact others commitments after class.

 

You could e-mail (that way there is no disdain in your voice - I get the annoyed part, I do). Say something like due to the limited time we have the room, if your dd is late to class, please have her slip in quietly so we can keep the class on pace. Thanks for understanding, and add a smiley or something.

 

I agree it needs to be addressed because it seems it will only continue to bug you. You could also add something positive about her child, so it won't feel like you are trying to get them to leave.

[Catwoman]

Honestly, they are annoyed, but they don't want to make waves. That seems to be their concern, the conflict that will ensue. They would rather just let it be, although they have all made comments about, particularly when they show up late and expect us to stop and re-cap what they missed.

 

I am more of the mind to get it all out and deal with it.

 

I think you're right, Dawn.

 

Realistically, every group is going to have a few problems, and sticking your heads in the sand and ignoring them won't solve anything.

[Durriyyah]

I am late to almost everything, and I bugs me mostly when it puts people out because of my tardiness. For me, it is always underestimating how much time it is going to take to get out the door. I can get myself ready in 15 minutes, but then I forgot about getting lunch packed, or the diaper bag isn't packed, or the little one now needs a diaper change, or we have to switch cars. Good thing I try to be early for some things, so I end up on time.

 

Maybe you could remind her that you only have a specific time period that you have the space, and other families have to head out right away, so there's no wiggle room. Maybe say something like you want her kids to enjoy all that your group has to offer, but that means coming on time and letting people know if she's running late so they can expect to still have a handout for them or whatever.

 

We had a family in one of our groups that mixed well with some families, but not with others and it put a bit of a rift in our group. It has been tough finding a sweet spot with the group since. Hopefully you can find a resolution before it breaks up the group. :grouphug:

[Pink Fairy]

I have a lot of sympathy for the chronically late, because I believe that 99% of the time it's unintentional. But if the mom has the balls to interrupt and ask you to catch her child up, she's needs to get a grip on reality. A meeting, a letter, a phone call--something! To let her know that she can't be a disruptive presence when she arrives late.

[happypamama]

I think it's unfair to a volunteer co-op teacher to have to regularly remain after class to "catch up" a kid who is always late.

 

Oh, no, that's true; it's not fair for the teacher to have to remain after class. I just meant that if we're late, *I* do my best to catch my own kids up later. But our co-op has a built-in play/social/lunch time afterwards as well, so if it's one of the students in the class I teach, I'm usually there anyway, or can e-mail the parent the stuff later.

 

I think there's a huge difference between the occasional problem and a habitual one. Everyone's had an extenuating circumstance at one time or another, and grace is important there, IMO, but being frequently late is a problem. The other family in the OP sounds disrespectful.

[Catwoman]

I think there's a huge difference between the occasional problem and a habitual one. Everyone's had an extenuating circumstance at one time or another, and grace is important there, IMO, but being frequently late is a problem. The other family in the OP sounds disrespectful.

 

:iagree:

 

Everyone is late every now and then, but for crying out loud, this woman has actually even sometimes forgotten to show up at all!

[Incognito]

As someone who struggles with time estimation as well - I understand that I drive you nuts! FWIW, I personally work very hard at leaving tons of time and being early for things for my kids because I don't want them to be chronically late or to have to live with the stress like I have for my whole life. I'm lacking in executive skills, I know it, and I'm working on it. BUT, it is a daily struggle. I am actually married to someone like you who just does not understand why it is an issue. On behalf of your chronically late, possibly flakey co-op member, please accept it as part of who the person is and move on. Punishment doesn't change who we are. If it did, I'd have changed by now! I've been punished lots. Also, FWIW, if I were in your group as a child that late kid would have been me, and as the parent now it isn't me, but that is only with a lot of hard work and me striving for better for my kids and not being myself.

 

Have you considered changing the schedule so there is something that takes about 15-20 minutes at the beginning of class so it wouldn't be as disruptive?

 

As far as her being rude about it, that isn't okay. And you are well within your rights as a friend/co-op person to point out your needs. If you can't do it nicely, it sounds like the other people in your co-op might be able to. Something along the lines of, "I understand it can be hard for you to get here by X, but when you come in it would help if you could slip in quietly so we can keep going." Or whatever helps.

 

I think you need to come to terms with the fact that you value time and punctuality over relationship with this woman (with anyone?) and decide what you think about it. I have friends that do things that drive me crazy, but I care about those people and we support one another in a variety of ways when we overlook eachothers' faults.

 

HTH

Edited October 13, 2012 by Tjej

[Catwoman]

 

Have you considered changing the schedule so there is something that takes about 15-20 minutes at the beginning of class so it wouldn't be as disruptive?

 

I'm sorry, but I think that is entirely unreasonable, and that it would be unfair and disruptive to the other families who manage to arrive on time, to have to sit around for 15-20 minutes waiting for Mrs Tardy to finally grace them with her presence.

 

And not for anything, but I can't imagine that she would arrive within the 20 minute window. She'd just figure she had an extra 20 minutes before she had to leave the house... so she'd still be 15 minutes late, on top of the "extra" 20 minute cushion.

[Incognito]

No, not do nothing, just do a short lesson. For instance, logic puzzles would work. Something you want to learn/teach, something valuable, but something that makes it more flexible.

 

I was not actually suggesting the change to make it better for the other woman, I was suggesting it to make it better/less stressful for the OP as the teacher (and the other kids).

 

My kids are in a class once a week that meets from 9-12. We are punctual (and were every week but one last year - which is a BIG deal for me). Many of the other families are not. The teacher of the class does a calendar time activity, national anthem, etc. at the beginning. It is useful stuff she wants to cover, builds relationship and community, but the stragglers don't disrupt as much as they would if she dove right into a lesson on evaporation.

 

It is also just an idea.

[KungFuPanda]

Tell her that you'll catch her up on what she missed 20 minutes before the start of the NEXT co-op class. :D

[Catwoman]

Tell her that you'll catch her up on what she missed 20 minutes before the start of the NEXT co-op class. :D

 

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

[DawnM]

huh?

 

It is a LITERATURE and WRITING CLASS for Middle and early high school students.

 

How in the world would a more flexible logic puzzle fit in here?

 

 

 

No, not do nothing, just do a short lesson. For instance, logic puzzles would work. Something you want to learn/teach, something valuable, but something that makes it more flexible.

 

I was not actually suggesting the change to make it better for the other woman, I was suggesting it to make it better/less stressful for the OP as the teacher (and the other kids).

 

My kids are in a class once a week that meets from 9-12. We are punctual (and were every week but one last year - which is a BIG deal for me). Many of the other families are not. The teacher of the class does a calendar time activity, national anthem, etc. at the beginning. It is useful stuff she wants to cover, builds relationship and community, but the stragglers don't disrupt as much as they would if she dove right into a lesson on evaporation.

 

It is also just an idea.

[DawnM]

That would just encourage her to call me during the week! :glare::glare::glare:

 

Tell her that you'll catch her up on what she missed 20 minutes before the start of the NEXT co-op class. :D

[Zebra]

LIFE is about things starting at a certain time. Chronically late people drive me crazy, I admit it. But frankly, it's THEIR problem if they are late.

The first week, fine. But after that you need to to figure out to leave earlier, it's that simple. And if you can't do that, then your kid misses the first 20 minutes of class. This is not your problem it's hers. And I would let her know that in as nice a way as possible.

[Chris in VA]

As someone who struggles with time estimation as well - I understand that I drive you nuts! FWIW, I personally work very hard at leaving tons of time and being early for things for my kids because I don't want them to be chronically late or to have to live with the stress like I have for my whole life. I'm lacking in executive skills, I know it, and I'm working on it. BUT, it is a daily struggle. I am actually married to someone like you who just does not understand why it is an issue. On behalf of your chronically late, possibly flakey co-op member, please accept it as part of who the person is and move on. Punishment doesn't change who we are. If it did, I'd have changed by now! I've been punished lots. Also, FWIW, if I were in your group as a child that late kid would have been me, and as the parent now it isn't me, but that is only with a lot of hard work and me striving for better for my kids and not being myself.

:grouphug:If you have a true executive function disability, my heart goes out to you. It can seem a huge deal to overcome. There are, however, excellent strategies to help, and I think it's very important to seek out those strategies and DO them. I think acceptance of one's own limitations is healthy, and helps with the stress, but the responsible adult will both accept limitations and also work to set up ways of dealing with them, not just say to others, "I am who I am. Deal with it."

 

Have you considered changing the schedule so there is something that takes about 15-20 minutes at the beginning of class so it wouldn't be as disruptive? This is putting the problem on the other people instead of taking responsibility yourself (meaning OP's coop member). The coop member should change her "mental start time."

 

As far as her being rude about it, that isn't okay. And you are well within your rights as a friend/co-op person to point out your needs. If you can't do it nicely, it sounds like the other people in your co-op might be able to. Something along the lines of, "I understand it can be hard for you to get here by X, but when you come in it would help if you could slip in quietly so we can keep going." Or whatever helps.

:iagree:It might be good if it's someone else who talks with her.

I think you need to come to terms with the fact that you value time and punctuality over relationship with this woman (with anyone?) and decide what you think about it. Bold mine--This is not fair. I could turn it around and say those who are chronically late value their own time over other's. Relationships are not just about one person forgiving/overlooking faults, they are also about being unselfish and kind and growing as people. I have friends that do things that drive me crazy, but I care about those people and we support one another in a variety of ways when we overlook eachothers' faults.One can be supportive by holding others' accountable, too.

 

HTH

 

:001_smile:

[DawnM]

WAY off base with this accusation! I am not going to defend myself or even explain this to you as I haven't ever seen your posts before and don't know you so I will assume you don't know me either.

 

 

 

I think you need to come to terms with the fact that you value time and punctuality over relationship with this woman (with anyone?) and decide what you think about it. I have friends that do things that drive me crazy, but I care about those people and we support one another in a variety of ways when we overlook eachothers' faults.

 

HTH

[Incognito]

No, I don't know you. I didn't know it was a high school literature class. It didn't sound like one. You started your thread saying it was a very relaxed co-op, and that the mom was coming in asking you to catch the child up. It sounded like a group of little kids to me. You do have an 8 year old.

 

I understand it pisses you off that this woman is late. It sounds like it doesn't bother the rest of the group that much, and I was just trying to get you to think outside the box in how to make it less stressful for everyone. Of course a logic puzzle wouldn't work with a high school literature class. Sorry. A literary device quiz game or something else of the same vein could be helpful for you. I don't think you have to change for this person, and I'm surprised a teen's parent is coming into the class anyways. It was just an IDEA of how to lower YOUR STRESS as the rest of your group wants to keep the person in the group and they will be late.

 

I am sorry that my comment about what you seem to value offended you. I wasn't trying to be mean. Perhaps another way of saying what I was getting at is: you can only control yourself, not the other woman. Do whatever you need to do to make peace with the situation you have - either try to find what you can enjoy about this person and their child or find a way out of the relationship.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Tjej

[Incognito]

Chris in VA - I agree that it is not the OP's responsibility to change for the late person.

 

As far as executive function disability - it probably is, and I have found a lot of good ways around it. I'm actually pretty okay at getting places on time now, but it is very stressful and I have empathy for those who have not figured things out. Even knowing what to do, there is the stress of implementation.

 

I help run a children's church evening program and we start on time and the late kids miss the beginning songs and the skit. I don't make it fun for them to be late, but we don't have the individual classes/teaching time at the beginning anymore because it was too much of a pain having stragglers coming in late to different groups and disrupting the flow of the class. I get the OP's problem and I was really not trying to make the problem hers. I was trying to suggest a way to make the bad trait of the other person less of a problem for her personally.

 

You are right that support in a relationship can mean holding one another accountable. It doesn't sound to me like this is a deep enough relationship to be at that level, though.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Tjej

[justasque]

Like other posters, I assumed this was 8-10 year olds. High school is a whole 'nother thing.

 

I think, as the teacher, you have every right to address this with the mom. Has anyone discussed it with her at all yet? Because if it's gone this long without being addressed, she may think it's all OK.

 

"Jane, I really enjoy having Mary in the class, but I'm concerned that she might not be able to keep up, since she's missed so much. We only have an hour each week, and we're trying to cover a year's worth of material that would take 5+ hours in a school setting. I know she has a full plate. Do you think she'll be able to attend most of the rest of the classes? Unfortunately, I don't have time on Tuesdays to stay and catch her up if she's late. Is there some way we can get her here earlier? Would coming just for the second class make it easier for your schedule? Or can you plan to get here 15 minutes early so that she'll have time to settle before I begin class?"

 

Also -

"Welcome Mary! Please take a seat quickly, you're ten minutes late and we've already started." "I'm sorry Jane, I can't stop to catch her up now; we've got a lot to squeeze in today. Mary, please do your best to follow along. You can call a friend later to find out what you've missed."

 

Is the child interested? Is she doing the homework? Do you want to have her continue (despite the mom's issues)? Does someone else drive near their house on the way? Maybe they could pick her up, if this is a child who is worth having in class? Sometimes it can benefit the other students to have a particular child in the class, so it's worth thinking outside the box as to how to deal with the parent's issues. This is particularly true at that age. There are only so many homeschooling high schoolers out there, and for things like literature discussion it can really help to have several kids in a class. Sometimes it's a juggle to make it work.

 

I have, in the past, talked to a mom an explained that I enjoyed having her child in class, but if the work wasn't done I would not be able to provide a recommendation or decent grade. That was fine with her, and we considered it an "audit" class for that student, which helped me to clarify what I would and would not go out of my way to do.

 

Do you give grades for this class? If so, a tactic that has worked for others has been to give a 'mini-quiz' first thing. The kids have 5 minutes or so, and if you're late you have less time. Lowest score is dropped, so there is some grace, but also some pressure to be there on time.

 

You might find that this will work itself out naturally, especially if you gently talk to the mom. Be firm about what you can and cannot (or will and will not) do to accommodate lateness and absence. She will have to decide whether the class is a good fit for her family.