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That's like saying it's okay for fat people to make fat jokes. :thumbup:

 

I don't see it that way. If we want to use that comparison, I think it would be a fat person wishing other fat people would not eat 2 or 3 desserts when they are out for dinner, because it fulfills the stereotypes about fat people.

 

Sort of like that, anyway.

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the church fall festivals I have been DON'T have ghouls, ghosts, or bats. (or cobwebs or scary noises or anything) Just costumes, carnival games, and candy.

 

That's what makes them easier for me to take my kids too. I don't see anything hypocritical or weird about calling them Fall Festival. Or not holding them on "Halloween Eve" but rather a convenient Saturday during the month of October (and once November) It tells -me- it won't have any of the scary stuff that is the part of Halloween I want to stay away from.

:iagree:

 

Because it makes them look ridiculous. On the one hand, they work themselves into a tizzy over non-Christians celebrating Christmas without the religious component, declaring a "war on Christmas" every time someone wishes them a Happy Holiday. Then, on the other, they decide they want to get in on the fun on Halloween, and so celebrate the holiday stripped of its Pagan origins.

 

Wee bit hypocritical, this Pagan thinks.

Good point.

 

(Though I don't think I could resist the temptation to attend a "Holy Ghost weenie roast" just so that when people asked what I did for Halloween, I could say I was at a "Holy Ghost weenie roast." :D)
Now I find THIS the most offensive of all. (not you Mergath, the fact that someone actually had a party named that.)

 

How about calling it an "All Hallow's Eve" Party but shortening it to "Halloween"?
:D

 

But celebrating a holiday in everything but name...

yep
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The problem is we have for too long conformed to this world. We think we are missing out on something or our kids are missing out if we don't celebrate pagan holidays. If there is one thing I've learned over the past few years it is that living a Christian life is not about storing up as much happiness on Earth as can be desired and chasing after our dreams ... it is about following what God has commanded us and where He is leading. We are no better off than the Israelites in most of the Old Testament worshipping Idols at every turn ... why are we STILL worshipping idols? As my 2nd grader would say - why are they still worshipping idols, haven't they learned not to do that?

Edited by mommy5
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Yeah, as with most holidays, there are a million theories about which origin our current incarnation of it actually comes from. Everyone who celebrated it had to get the idea from somewhere.

 

Though I'm guessing that donning a "Sexy Witch" costume from Target and doing Jello shots most likely came from a tradition other than the Victorian one. :tongue_smilie:

 

It's interesting because it seems to me that this year the party store had a lot more "normal" costumes and fewer "sexy" costumes. Nobody wore a "sexy" costume to either of the Halloween parties that we attended (one of them we held) last year.

 

And, I agree that the eyeball Jello shots pinned on my Pinterest page are a new development, lol!!! :lol:

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OMG THIS! Totally THIS!!

 

And now I SO want to have a Holy Ghost Weenie Roast! I can just imagine the fun I'd have creating the invitations!! And the food possibilities!!!

 

astrid

 

 

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

And that is all I'm going to say on this topic.

 

No, really. I will not get sucked in this year.

 

Seriously. :tongue_smilie:

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The problem is we have for too long conformed to this world. We think we are missing out on something or our kids are missing out if we don't celebrate pagan holidays. If there is one thing I've learned over the past few years it is that living a Christian life is not about storing up as much happiness on Earth as can be desired and chasing after our dreams ... it is about following what God has commanded us and where He is leading.

 

 

I am really confused by this.

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Donning my flame retardant suit....

 

So as some of you know, I work at a Christian school. About 75% of our students are professing Christians or are being raised by Christian parents. Still, I would say we are moderately conservative and not "fundies". We do, however, have a few extremely conservative parents and we always keep them in mind when making decisions in an effort to avoid offending them.

 

So in our weekly leadership meeting we had to decide on the yearly request by some group or another to have ... You guessed it... A Halloween party on campus.

 

Sigh.

 

Well, the usual discussion ensued. Honestly, maybe I am just too old and cranky but this topic is so old and boring. The ideas...

 

Let's not call it a Halloween party. We'll just say it is a costume party! (really? A costume party, with candy, coincidentally held on or very near Oct. 31? If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...)

 

Let's have a harvest party! (really? When is the last time any of us harvested anything and if you say we are harvesting souls I will punch you in the throat.)

 

But my favorite... Let's call it a Hallelujah party! (A WHAT? Are you serious??? A hallelujah party??? What is a hallelujah party? Honestly, it makes me embarassed to be associated with Christians when they say stuff like that. And we wonder why people make fun of us!!! I know! Let's all dress up like ghosts and we will call it a Halle-BOO-jah party! No one will suspect! They will think we are still holy! I think I am going to hurl. :banghead: )

 

At least those who have reformation parties are celebrating an actual thing!

 

Seriously, I don't care if you don't celebrate Halloween. I don't celebrate it because costumes are too expensive here and I am too lazy to make one. If you feel strongly about it, fine.

 

But don't make up some RIDICULOUS alternate name for the party and then pretend like you are not "really" celebrating Halloween. Just buy some candy and eat it without guilt because that's all we really want anyways. And stop EMBARASSING the rest of us. :glare:

 

I am sure this offends some of you but I am too exhausted from today's meeting about this topic to really care that much. Maybe tomorrow... :tongue_smilie:

 

 

.

 

I agree with you. Laughing about the HalleBOOjah party.

 

Anyway, why don't you just have a Reformation party, if it is a Christian school (or will that offend some)?

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Because it makes them look ridiculous. On the one hand, they work themselves into a tizzy over non-Christians celebrating Christmas without the religious component, declaring a "war on Christmas" every time someone wishes them a Happy Holiday. Then, on the other, they decide they want to get in on the fun on Halloween, and so celebrate the holiday stripped of its Pagan origins.

 

Wee bit hypocritical, this Pagan thinks.

 

(Though I don't think I could resist the temptation to attend a "Holy Ghost weenie roast" just so that when people asked what I did for Halloween, I could say I was at a "Holy Ghost weenie roast." :D)

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

If you want to dress up and pass out candy just call it Halloween like most people do. Really. Our church calls it Trunk or Treat and it's a safe place to get candy and dress up and play games and have fun. They do ask people not wear scary costumes.

 

The idea of a 'Harvest' festival in Malaysia is just....:confused:

 

I'm a Christian that doesn't get all twitterpated over Seasons Greetings either.

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Hi Heather,

 

Just curious what the outcome was. It sounds like there isn't a precedent in the school's history that you could point back to.

 

If the school does decide to host a party, some nice ideas have been brought up on this thread - Reformation Day, Fall/Harvest festival (country theme) on a convenient day, Halloween with the Victorian origin explained.

 

Some of it depends on how closely your school follows the traditions of the families' home countries. What do you do, for example, over Thanksgiving? It also celebrates fall, but there are no seasons where you are (hot and sunny vs hot and rainy doesn't count :tongue_smilie:).

 

Personally, coming from that corner of the globe, I had no cultural attachment to Halloween. I was aware of it, sure, from movies and books. But I wouldn't have dreamed of making fun of a sanitized version. Perhaps we questioned our educators less, or we were more blase about other peoples' cultural traditions and just enjoyed them.

 

ETA

- There is a darker festival in Chinese tradition, called the Ghost Festival (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Festival). I'm sure Heather has seen this because it was in late August this year. Nothing fun about it though, and it's decidedly non-Christian. Just mentioning it as cultural background.

Edited by leeyeewah
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It's interesting because it seems to me that this year the party store had a lot more "normal" costumes and fewer "sexy" costumes. Nobody wore a "sexy" costume to either of the Halloween parties that we attended (one of them we held) last year.

 

And, I agree that the eyeball Jello shots pinned on my Pinterest page are a new development, lol!!! :lol:

 

That's a relief, maybe I'll actually be able to buy a new costume this year that doesn't require me to wear a parka over it to stave off hypothermia during the trick-or-treating. Because let me tell you, there's nothing sexy about wearing a few scraps of polyester in Minnesota at the end of October. Brr.

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The local missionaries held a harvest party: costumes (nothing scary or in any way controversial), games, sweets. Nothing to do with harvest. We used to go along, as the boys enjoyed it, but it was a weird occasion.

 

Laura

 

Some friends of ours used to hold a harvest party. They had a big old barn, and they'd decorate it with typical fall decorations, just nothing scary or controversial. They'd do games, bobbing for apples, stuff like that, and the kids were encouraged to dress up, just nothing scary. Everyone brought a bag of candy, and they dumped all of the bags into a big pot and then gave out a bag to each child to take home. So the kids got fun with friends and candy and a chance to dress up, and the parents didn't have to worry about small children being scared or reluctant to go trick-or-treating. I went a few times as a teen helper, and personally, I thought it was a win all around.

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The problem is we have for too long conformed to this world. We think we are missing out on something or our kids are missing out if we don't celebrate pagan holidays. If there is one thing I've learned over the past few years it is that living a Christian life is not about storing up as much happiness on Earth as can be desired and chasing after our dreams ... it is about following what God has commanded us and where He is leading. We are no better off than the Israelites in most of the Old Testament worshipping Idols at every turn ... why are we STILL worshipping idols? As my 2nd grader would say - why are they still worshipping idols, haven't they learned not to do that?

 

Amen.

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Yeah, as with most holidays, there are a million theories about which origin our current incarnation of it actually comes from. Everyone who celebrated it had to get the idea from somewhere.

 

Though I'm guessing that donning a "Sexy Witch" costume from Target and doing Jello shots most likely came from a tradition other than the Victorian one. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

:001_huh: That's supposed to be a costume? :001_huh:

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I didn't have a problem with the last thread or this thread personally, my beliefs are somewhere in between on a lot of the things discussed. However, I don't think it right that one thread is deemed making fun of Christians and ok but the other is considered disrespectful (with various people taking different sides as to which thread does what depending on their own beliefs).

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Let's have a harvest party! (really? When is the last time any of us harvested anything and if you say we are harvesting souls I will punch you in the throat.).

 

Ask the kids to go harvest some bananas, pineapple and durians off the plantations (just kidding).

 

I went to a catholic school in Singapore and we celebrate All Saints and Souls day by going to mass. No controversy there :001_smile:

Edited by Arcadia
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Anyway, why don't you just have a Reformation party, if it is a Christian school (or will that offend some)?
Um, yeah... Non-Protestant Christians.

 

That's a relief, maybe I'll actually be able to buy a new costume this year that doesn't require me to wear a parka over it to stave off hypothermia during the trick-or-treating. Because let me tell you, there's nothing sexy about wearing a few scraps of polyester in Minnesota at the end of October. Brr.
I KNOW!
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If you want to dress up and pass out candy just call it Halloween like most people do. Really. Our church calls it Trunk or Treat and it's a safe place to get candy and dress up and play games and have fun. They do ask people not wear scary costumes.

 

 

My objection to "Trunks of Treats" or whatever they want to call it is simple: not enough calories burned for all of the candy gathered.

 

I live in a not terribly populated area so my son had to walk a couple of miles to get his candy treats. Some people are uncomfortable with knocking on strangers' doors, but most of the unsafe treat stories are urban myths anyway. I live in an area with a lot of retired people. Most adore having kids knock on the door. The curmudgeons just don't bother to turn on their lights.

 

Look at from another perspective: the event might bring joy to a shut in or elderly person's limited life.

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Romans 14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.

 

 

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

 

 

10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.[c] 11 For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,

Every knee shall bow to Me,

And every tongue shall confess to God.â€

 

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.

14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. ... 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. 22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

 

 

15 We then who are strong ought to bear with the scruples of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

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Translation: some of you are off of the true path. You should not be "celebrating" Halloween in any form.

 

 

 

 

Ah ok thanks. I am often confused by flowery statements trying to say something they don't. I am trying to have as much fun as possible on Earth.

 

I think I'm going to be Catwoman. Though DD wants me to match her as some sort of gypsy. I can't figure out exactly what her costume is but it is very pretty.

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the church fall festivals I have been DON'T have ghouls, ghosts, or bats. (or cobwebs or scary noises or anything) Just costumes, carnival games, and candy.

 

That's what makes them easier for me to take my kids too. I don't see anything hypocritical or weird about calling them Fall Festival. Or not holding them on "Halloween Eve" but rather a convenient Saturday during the month of October (and once November) It tells -me- it won't have any of the scary stuff that is the part of Halloween I want to stay away from.

 

:iagree: I think Harvest parties are cool.... "celebrating Halloween" is celebrating evil to me. Dressing in silly costumes, handing out candy, carving pumpkins, hayrack rides... I can do those without glorifying things I consider evil.

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Let's not call it a Halloween party. We'll just say it is a costume party! (really? A costume party, with candy, coincidentally held on or very near Oct. 31? If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...)

 

 

.

 

Yes. This is what Halloween is. I'm so over reading about what people did or did not do to save or **** their souls on Oct. 31 throughout the history of time. In OUR time and OUR place, this is a party where you dress up and get candy. So shoot us for enjoying costumes and sugar.

 

As a family we always say Happy Reformation Day and tell the story of Grandpa Luther. Then we dress up and eat candy.

 

We have silly neighbors who "celebrate" Halloween every year by getting together with friends, turning off all their lights (so as not to attract those evil candy collectors), watching movies, and eating snacks. Strangely enough, they think they are avoiding the holiday :D.

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Yes, now that you mention it...

 

how does wearing a costume and giving candy to our neighbors have anything to do with worshiping false gods or celebrating evil?

 

And if my children are taught "Halloween means wearing a costume and eating candy" and they continue that tradition, and they don't do research on the topic... then how are they worshiping false gods or celebrating evil?

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Let's have a harvest party! (really? When is the last time any of us harvested anything and if you say we are harvesting souls I will punch you in the throat.)

 

Oh my soul, A-FREAKING-MEN!!!!!

I am :lol: at everything, but especially this.

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Yes, now that you mention it...

 

how does wearing a costume and giving candy to our neighbors have anything to do with worshiping false gods or celebrating evil?

 

And if my children are taught "Halloween means wearing a costume and eating candy" and they continue that tradition, and they don't do research on the topic... then how are they worshiping false gods or celebrating evil?

 

Same with some messianic friends who think that Christmas is evil because of its pagan origins. It's just a load of baloney. Halloween is not about worshiping evil, Christmas is not about worshiping evil. The Bible even contains examples of incorporating pagan culture to win people to Christ. It's not pagans we need to be afraid of, it's the judgment and ugliness in our own hearts. People just want something to villify.

 

If you google "Danielle Bean on trading in Reformation Day for Halloween" you will find a good article on Halloween from the Catholic perspective.

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If they do their research they will find out it was never about worshiping evil or false gods. So you are fine either way.

 

There was also a sense that this was the time of year when the physical and supernatural worlds were closest and magical things could happen.[13][14] The souls of the dead were supposed to revisit their homes on Samhain eve. [15] To ward off these spirits, the Gaels built huge, symbolically regenerative bonfires and invoked the help of the gods through animal and perhaps even human sacrifice.[11] In the Western Isles of Scotland the Sluagh, or fairy host was regarded as composed of the souls of the dead flying through the air, and the feast of the dead at Hallowe'en was likewise the festival of the fairies.[16]

 

Also this: It was traditionally believed that the souls of the departed wandered the earth until All Saints' Day, and All Hallows' Eve provided one last chance for the dead to gain vengeance on their enemies before moving onto the next world.[20] To avoid being recognised by a soul, Christians would wear masks and costumes to disguise themselves, following the lighted candles set by others to guide their travel for worship the next day.[20] Today, this practice has been perpetuated through children guising (trick or treating).[20]

~Wikipedia History of Halloween

 

From Colossians 2:8: See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

 

Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

 

1 Corinthians 10:18-21 1Consider the people of Israel: Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons.

 

1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

Edited by mommy5
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Well let's have a Saturnalia party but call it Christmas. And if it catches on, it just might replace Saturnalia.

 

Okay, who let Sheldon Cooper in? :D

 

I get what you are saying, Heather. I think it's fine to have a fall/autumn/harvest festival if you do things like apple bobbing, building scarecrows, potato sack races.... But if you are going to dress up in costumes, hand out candy in Halloween wrappers, give out squishy toy pumpkins/ghosts, etc... Then call a spade a spade.

 

When I was in school we had a Halloween Carnival. By the time my kids were in school, it had been renamed a Harvest Fest. Then, at some point it became a Fall Carnival. I asked and was told it was because the Jehovah's Witness kids couldn't come if it was titled Halloween or called a Festival. That's fine, but all the activities, candy, and prizes remained Halloween based and it's as much of a festival as it ever was. I have to question people who think it isn't the ACTIVITY, but rather the name of the activity that is sinful.

 

ETA: I don't think many JW families participated even after all the name concessions. So my issue was with the school/parents who thought it was the name that they found offensive. However, had the JW families suddenly come en masse after we painted over Halloween and festival.... I'd have to wonder about their convictions, too.

Edited by Ghee
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I will pay for the weenies to roast if I can watch you punch people in the throat!

 

I grew up celebrating Halloween in the customary way. And attending church more than weekly. I only ever met IRL a small handful of Christians who took issue with Halloween so perhaps those who do object can refrain from calling the rest of us "fringe"?

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*sniff* Isn't it wonderful how fashion can bridge the Christian-Wiccan divide?

:D

 

I spit cheese and crackers on my computer over this one. :lol::lol:

 

World Peace through fashion. :thumbup1:

 

 

 

I call it Nano eve(the day before Nanowrimo begins), and where we used to live there would be a costume party.

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What if Halloween is my birthday but I still like Halloween? Can I have my cake and eat it too? :D

 

I don't know...are your neighbors handing out birthday cake?

 

(My MIL once handed out baggies of chicken salad. She claimed it was all she could come up with at the time. I'll bet someone nearby could whip up a little cake with a couple hours notice.)

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I don't know...are your neighbors handing out birthday cake?

 

(My MIL once handed out baggies of chicken salad. She claimed it was all she could come up with at the time. I'll bet someone nearby could whip up a little cake with a couple hours notice.)

 

How about Soy sauce, I have a lot of little packets available. :lol:

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