Need to vent - Carseats & 'the others'

[Granny_Weatherwax]

The other grandmother just picked up the baby and put her in the car in a forward facing carseat. DD specifically asked them not to turn her around yet. The baby is only 22 pounds and not yet a year old.

 

Why, oh why, can't they just listen to one of DD's requests?

 

They disregard DD's desires and requests for so many things (like giving the baby soda). This entire situation isn't going to be easy. Truth is court orders don't mean a thing. They can do whatever they want when they have her and DD has no recourse. This sucks.

 

I am so worried about what is going to happen when overnights begin next month.

[Mama_Rana]

Ugh. Are they breaking the laws of your/their state? Document everything; maybe it can be used to fight the overnights? I'm clueless about the legal end, but poor carseat use is a pet peeve of mine. :(

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I have to find a gluten free, low calorie food (preferably one with chocolately goodness) to eat on Tues & Thurs. when they come to pick up the baby. I want to eat through the stress and that is not good for my diet or my health. I am so stressed and tense at the moment...I know the baby is DD's but not having any control or say in the situation is eating me alive.

 

(There is a brand new jar of Nutella in the pantry. Nutella is a low-cal, gf healthfood, right?)

[Harriet Vane]

:grouphug:

[Mandy in TN]

I don't know the history, but I wanted to say that I adore my mom. My mom is my best friend, but she has never followed any sort of guidelines, dietary or otherwise, that I have had for my children. She buys them whatever toys they want and never asks if I would want them to have anything. She doesn't need my permission. She is the grandma. I would rather they drink soda for breakfast, lunch, and dinner than cause any sort of friction in their loving relationship by trying to apply the rules of my home to her time with them.

 

Rules and regulations are my department.

 

On the other hand, my xh would let my big boys stay up all weekend playing video games and watching rated R horror movies. Off and on they had no where to sleep but a blow up mattress. Not only did he not help with school, but intentionally made sure they did nothing. There were other things that really got to me and for some time really bothered me.

 

At some point you have to let it go. Bottom line- his house his rules. I have no doubt that he loves them. It may not be the way I want, but I don't get a vote. So, I could either let my boys accept the love he was willing to give or I could attempt to meddle in a relationship that I had no control over.

 

I had to silently adopt the mantra:

You may do whatever is easiest for you, but I will do what is best for the boys.

 

Truthfully, he was not a fan of homeschooling and I am sure there were other things I did that he didn't like. Maybe, he had the same mantra going on that I did. I don't know. Anyway, my house my rules.

 

You can't cause another person to enforce your rules in their home even if the way they do things is the opposite of how you would do them. Unless there is abuse or neglect as defined by the courts or immorality or illegal behavior with the children present or something that is in direct violation of whatever agreement has been filed with the courts regarding visitation, there is nothing that can be done. If something falls into one of those categories, document, document, document. You will have to prove it in court for anything to change.

 

If it does not fall into one of those categories, let it go. These things are not within your power to change. In your head (or your dd in her head) repeat the mantra over and over. You may do whatever is easiest for you, but I will do what is best for my child. Then, hold yourself to it.

 

FWIW, my boys turned out alright. They are wonderful young adults.

HTH-

Mandy

[MariannNOVA]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Pray. Pray a lot.

[StaceyinLA]

if laws are being broken, and they are if the baby is under a year old, I'd be contacting someone. What other laws will they ignore in the future?

[phathui5]

"You cannot take dd with you unless she is rear-facing."

[cindergretta]

Oh ugh. :( :grouphug: While the soda would really annoy me and tick me off, the carseat thing is just plain dangerous.

 

I encourage you to check the specific laws of your state and enforce them. My state requires children under a year to be rf'ing, period.

 

I can't even imagine how hard it is to let your grandbaby go off into such an unhealthy situation. :grouphug:

[Joker]

if laws are being broken, and they are if the baby is under a year old, I'd be contacting someone. What other laws will they ignore in the future?

 

I did a quick search and it looks like a lot of places say <1 OR <20lbs, or don't have any real clear rules on rear facing seats. This was one easy site (don't know how accurate it is). There may not be any actual laws being broken, depending on which state the OP is in.

[phathui5]

We've lived in Maryland and NY and are now in Oregon. In all three places, it has been >1yr AND >20lbs.

[Joker]

We've lived in Maryland and NY and are now in Oregon. In all three places, it has been >1yr AND >20lbs.

 

The link I provided says that about Oregon, but not about NY and Maryland. I found this about NY, and this about Maryland. Are there links for something different? I did see where Maryland tried to change things to say rear facing until 2 yrs of age, but it didn't pass. It seems many states have vague laws about rear facing seats.

[greenbabybottoms]

There is not a current car seat on the market that allows forward facing before a year old and I am relatively sure every state requires 1 year AND 20 lbs or to follow manufacturer instructions.

[ZooRho]

How about asking the ped to help out.

 

I don't know the laws,

 

we had our's turned before a year. that was in the dark ages though

[Mandy in TN]

Hey-

 

I read through some of the backstory posts. When we lived in the same town, our parenting plan said that if a babysitter was needed the other parent was given first option to spend that time with the child. Even after we lived in different towns, if help was needed overnight, the other parent got first option. This little peanut should not be left with a babysitter when a parent or grandparent is available. I mean really he should never be picking her up to take her to a sitter. If something like this isn't in the parenting plan, I would see about changing the wording.

 

My x-ils were chain smokers. Their double-wide was a cloud and my boys were borderline asthmatics. It didn't matter. It may be incredibly bad parenting, but it wasn't illegal for xh to have them there. Anyway, in spite of this, I really liked my x-ils and I am glad that my boys had the chance to have a relationship with and be loved by them.

 

X-mil died just before Christmas last year. She made sweet tea with tons of sugar on the stovetop and always had a fresh pot of coffee. Of course, both of these she gave to my boys when they were little with a cigarette in her mouth.

 

She also taught me to make super fluffy pancakes. About the time her youngest graduated high school she found herself raising two of her grandkids (not my boys obviously two other grandkids) in the boonies in middle TN in a double wide with a bad back during what was supposed to be her retirement. There was never any question that she would do it and she never expected a thank you. You have to take the good with the bad. My oldest in particular was pretty crushed when she died. Children deserve all the love they can get even if it isn't exactly the situation you would have chosen.

 

HTH-

Mandy

Edited October 10, 2012 by Mandy in TN

[StaceyinLA]

No one who smoked in their home would've cared for my children when they were small. I have an ex too, and he lived with his parents after he left; all smoking was done outdoors.

 

Dd won't bring dgs to her husband's grandparents' home because its like being in a bar. Maybe he won't get to know his great grandma really well, but it's just non-negotiable for her.

 

My sdgs is sick ALL. THE. TIME because of exposure to cigarette smoke. It absolutely disgusts me what he has to go through because of selfish people (both of his parents included).

[Jpoy85]

The other grandmother just picked up the baby and put her in the car in a forward facing carseat. DD specifically asked them not to turn her around yet. The baby is only 22 pounds and not yet a year old.

 

Why, oh why, can't they just listen to one of DD's requests?

 

They disregard DD's desires and requests for so many things (like giving the baby soda). This entire situation isn't going to be easy. Truth is court orders don't mean a thing. They can do whatever they want when they have her and DD has no recourse. This sucks.

 

I am so worried about what is going to happen when overnights begin next month.

 

its not that they can do w/e they want- she just needs to know how to fight what they are doing. Document it all and file in the court and present it.

 

"You cannot take dd with you unless she is rear-facing."

 

With court/custody you CANT say that.

 

~~BTDT with N and his dad.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

DD spoke up today when the grandmother picked up the baby. DD told her about the 1 year & 20# req. for our state. The other grandmother didn't seem too concerned and left with the baby still forward facing. DD did ask her once again to turn the baby rear-facing until she is two years old.

 

I don't know how it will turn out but I am proud of DD for voicing her concerns.

 

--

Thank you all for your replies and bits of advice. Your kindness is appreciated.

 

Thanks again.

[Lisbeth]

DD spoke up today when the grandmother picked up the baby. DD told her about the 1 year & 20# req. for our state. The other grandmother didn't seem too concerned and left with the baby still forward facing. DD did ask her once again to turn the baby rear-facing until she is two years old.

 

I don't know how it will turn out but I am proud of DD for voicing her concerns.

 

--

Thank you all for your replies and bits of advice. Your kindness is appreciated.

 

Thanks again.

 

I would die on that hill. There is JUST NO WAY. :grouphug:

[QueenCat]

DD spoke up today when the grandmother picked up the baby. DD told her about the 1 year & 20# req. for our state. The other grandmother didn't seem too concerned and left with the baby still forward facing. DD did ask her once again to turn the baby rear-facing until she is two years old.

 

I don't know how it will turn out but I am proud of DD for voicing her concerns.

 

--

Thank you all for your replies and bits of advice. Your kindness is appreciated.

 

Thanks again.

 

I understand rear facing now.... but aren't most babies well over that 20 lb mark long before hitting two years old?

[CheerioKid]

Carseat stuff puts me over the top! I don't understand why people don't care whether their child's neck snaps or not! The 11 month old I babysit for was rear facing for a while, but over the summer the family went to Disney World (from Virginia) and decided to turn him forward at some point because he was fussing in the car. They have one of those "smart seats" that can switch back and forth from front to rear, and they have kept him front. Makes me INSANE!

 

I put him rear facing when he's with me, and he doesn't fuss. So what if he does? Since when does the baby get to make the choice about whether to be forward or backward???

 

:banghead:

 

Dh called me carseat nazi when my kids were in seats....wonder why!? LOL!

[Joker]

The new law, as I understand it is, is 30 pounds rear facing. She is breaking the law and endangering the child.

 

Isn't the law different depending on the state? I'm so confused by some of the posts, not just on this thread but in general. I know there are guidelines, but those aren't laws. I don't think every state has a law which states the above, does it?

 

I'm all for safety but sometimes that doesn't work the way many want. My youngest was forward facing almost right at 1 yr. She had an airway abnormality (and now asthma), and she would cry so hard she would vomit and choke. Turning her forward facing made a huge difference regardless of the guidelines. It wasn't safe for me to drive anywhere with her alone while rear facing and that's just wasn't possible to avoid long term.

[Farrar]

I remember your post about the soda thing. Ugh. I agree with others that this is just flagrantly breaking the law. I know custody can be difficult to navigate, but this just seems genuinely unsafe. Who can she appeal to about this? It seems like it should go beyond just telling them the law and asking them to follow.

[Sahamamama]

They disregard DD's desires and requests for so many things (like giving the baby soda). This entire situation isn't going to be easy. Truth is court orders don't mean a thing. They can do whatever they want when they have her and DD has no recourse. This sucks.

 

I am so worried about what is going to happen when overnights begin next month.

In a way, they can. Up to a point. But court orders DO mean something. They are to be enforced.

 

Your daughter needs to document, document, document.

 

Here's what I mean. I had a client who would spend many Mondays in the doctor's office, missing work (again) that she desperately needed, because her young daughter was sick, came back from the weekend visit filthy, hungry, dehydrated, feverish, listless, covered with diaper rash, etc., etc., etc.

 

In order to change her situation -- and the father's family's access to her baby -- she has to document everything. Before "the others" come to take Baby, Mom takes a photo. Baby is clean, well fed, alert, interacting with others, dressed in clean clothes that are appropriate for the season.

 

When Baby is returned, Mom takes multiple photos and writes down all that she observes. Baby is sticky, stinky, and filthy, wearing the same clothes (or fewer clothes, or seasonally inappropriate clothes, or all clothes come back filthy, or don't come back at all). Baby appears dehydrated and hungry. Baby's teeth haven't been brushed or appear dirty. Baby has diaper rash, sores, bug bites, bruises, cradle cap, severe sunburn -- in short, anything that you could see and document, you write it down and take a picture. If she can get another witness to also write down observations, that will help.

 

She should also write down things such as "the others" facing Baby's car seat in the wrong (illegal?) direction, giving Baby unhealthy foods (soda, candy), comments made about Baby's bedtime/rest routine (or lack of it), comments she hears about possibly inappropriate activities the family did while caring for Baby (example: they watched The Exorcist or went to a keg party and got smashed or they smoked pot), comments she hears about OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE ACCESS to Baby while the family is supposedly caring for Baby (example: The Other Grandparents leave Baby with Creepy Cousin or have Creepy Cousin in the house while caring for Baby). This is important, because your daughter needs to know who has access to her child while her child is out of her sight.

 

Your daughter could at least give Baby a lot of water before pick up time, which may buy a few hours of not wanting soda. :glare: But you're right, as long as they have Baby, she's out of your daughter's oversight. It's hard.

 

For overnights, I recommend labeling all items with Baby's name, and making a list of what goes over and what comes back. You'd be surprised how some families "forget" or "lose" something every. single. week. It's often intentional, and it's calculated to drain the mother's energy and wallet. Document what goes over and what comes back.

 

And, if you can help your daughter get Baby to the pediatrician regularly, he/she will help to document the good care your daughter provides for Baby. Visit a pediatric dentist, to catch any early signs of tooth decay. Be on friendly terms with any day care workers, neighbors, church workers -- anyone who could provide an objective, written statement attesting to the good care your daughter gives to Baby.

 

I hope some of this helps. It's been a long time since I was a social worker, so it's like a distant, foggy memory. :D If and when your daughter feels she's built enough of a "case," she may want to discuss her findings with an attorney.

[besroma]

:grouphug:

[Sahamamama]

I had to silently adopt the mantra:

You may do whatever is easiest for you, but I will do what is best for the boys.

 

There is a lot of wisdom in all of Mandy's post, but this is especially poignant. Yes. He/they may do what's easiest, but you will try to do what's best.

 

Good advice. Some people's children go into situations weekly that are truly unhealthy/unsafe, and for them there is a need to document-toward-change.

 

But if there is a set of loving people on the "other side" -- who just happen to do things very differently -- if they are loving and safe, then they are a part of life for that child, right? Hope it works out, OP.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Sahamamama

[LisaKinVA]

I understand rear facing now.... but aren't most babies well over that 20 lb mark long before hitting two years old?

 

Yes, most babies are over 20lbs before hitting two years old, newer studies have shown that rear facing for the first two years is much safer than forward facing. I do have a 3.5yo lightweight who has finally crossed the 30# mark, and a 6yo who is tall, but still weighs under 50 pounds sopping wet.

[TammyS]

Instead of having them pick up baby at home...how about having them meet at a police station or fire department and asking the qualified person there to do a car seat check and educate them about what is appropriate. After that, if they don't follow the directives they have been given by the expert, then I would call the police as soon as they pull out of the driveway, because inappropriate car seat use is against the law, and you have a DUTY to report crimes as well as to report cases of child endangerment (in some states every adult has the duty to report to CPS, though this isn't where I would start).

[Shelsi]

I have to find a gluten free, low calorie food (preferably one with chocolately goodness) to eat on Tues & Thurs. when they come to pick up the baby. I want to eat through the stress and that is not good for my diet or my health. I am so stressed and tense at the moment...I know the baby is DD's but not having any control or say in the situation is eating me alive.

 

(There is a brand new jar of Nutella in the pantry. Nutella is a low-cal, gf healthfood, right?)

 

I don't have any good advice, but I do have a recipe for a low-calorie chocolate GF "stress food" http://glutenfree100.blogspot.com/2012/04/dark-chocolate-angel-food-cupcakes-with.html They're chocolate angel food cupcakes (or you could just bake it in a regular angel food cake pan) with salted caramel glaze. 157 calories each is what I figured.

[QueenCat]

Yes, most babies are over 20lbs before hitting two years old, newer studies have shown that rear facing for the first two years is much safer than forward facing. I do have a 3.5yo lightweight who has finally crossed the 30# mark, and a 6yo who is tall, but still weighs under 50 pounds sopping wet.

 

I didn't realize the guidelines had changed so much. I know mine were both front facing by around their first birthdays, based on the law & guidance from the pediatrician on safe practices. My friends consider me to be "too" safety conscious so I can guarantee I was following the guidelines. I was among the few of my friends still using a booster when the youngest was 8 (he was very small).

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Shelsi - Oh my! Thank you for this recipe. I am going to give it a whirl. I have been snacking on Starbursts this week.

--

 

I looked up our state's car seat law and it says 1 year & 20 pounds. The infant seat DD uses is good for 30 pounds so DD was planning on rear-facing the baby until the baby outgrows the infant seat. DD has read some of the thread about extended rear-facing and decided to do rear-facing until at least 2 years old. She has been looking into the next level of car seat and is taking the situation quite seriously.

---

 

DD documents everything. She already has two composition books full of info. Everything is turned in to DD's attorney and he has made copies of everything. The problem is the local courts won't do anything until DD can prove physical or psychological harm has been done. Thus far, the only thing we can prove is how they treat DD and there isn't a legal recourse for someone being a jack-ss.

 

The whole situation is frustrating.

 

In my heart, I know the other grandparents would never do anything to intentionally harm the baby (we'll just have to say that giving her soda and forward facing the car seat is not done with malicious intent) . They do love her and, as far as we can tell, the treat her well. It's the way they treat my DD and her wishes as the baby's mother that irks my tatter.

Edited October 12, 2012 by The Dragon Academy

[vonfirmath]

I'm -so- pleased to hear this.

 

The infant seat DD uses is good for 30 pounds so DD was planning on rear-facing the baby until the baby outgrows the infant seat.

 

 

Do be aware these seats can also be outgrown by height before they reach the weight limit.

 

My 14 month old baby is 19 pounds but we are moving her to her convertible seat (still rear-facing) this week because she is reaching the limits of her Graco height-wise. (Safeseat, limit of 30 pounds)

 

Can DD appeal to the daddy of the baby to keep the baby safe? Or has that relationship deteriorated too much?

[Lab1]

I'm so sorry! Get this documented! Do you or your dd have a lawyer for this situation? I'd contact them first and then the police or CPS. That is illegal and child endangerment. They will give them a warning, but it establishes a paper trail of abuse. Carseat laws are made for this reason!

 

My inlaws can't buckle a child in properly. I'm in control though and can make sure my kids are safe. I'd be beyond upset if my parental rights to protect my kids were taken from me!

[Moxie]

This is going to sound mean but I promise that that isn't my intention. I think your daughter needs to learn to pick her battles. No amount of documenting car seats and soda is going to change anything. Those are big issues to her but not to the court. She is going to have learn to relax about some of this stuff or she is going to make herself a nervous wreck.

[Mama_Rana]

This is going to sound mean but I promise that that isn't my intention. I think your daughter needs to learn to pick her battles. No amount of documenting car seats and soda is going to change anything. Those are big issues to her but not to the court. She is going to have learn to relax about some of this stuff or she is going to make herself a nervous wreck.

 

I'm sorry, I'm going to try to say this gently as well, but while I agree the soda issue may not be the hill to die on [metaphorically speaking], I disagree that carseat safety is a molehill. It IS important enough to stand up for because it's life or death. It only takes ONE time of inappropriate or insufficient carseat safety for a child to die or be permanently disabled.

 

I really hope the OP's dd is able to reason with these in-laws or else get the arrangement changed.

[Moxie]

I'm sorry, I'm going to try to say this gently as well, but while I agree the soda issue may not be the hill to die on [metaphorically speaking], I disagree that carseat safety is a molehill. It IS important enough to stand up for because it's life or death. It only takes ONE time of inappropriate or insufficient carseat safety for a child to die or be permanently disabled.

 

I really hope the OP's dd is able to reason with these in-laws or else get the arrangement changed.

 

Car seats are important to you, I, the OP and her DD. They are NOT important to the court. There is just NO WAY custody/visitation is going to change based on that.

 

True story--when my SIL was getting a divorce, her exDH had a positive hair sample test for COCAINE!! The judge told SIL that unless he was buying or using in front of the kids (both under 5), it didn't matter. SIL spent LOTS of her free time and her money documenting things (more serious then a car seat), video and audio recording him (no one but her attorney was interested in any of it) and making a case against him. None of it mattered. Her ex has the same visitation as any other guy.

[Durriyyah]

I probably don't know the whole story, and just read the first and last page of posts, so I apologize if I missed something.

 

My DD1 has a grandma like this on her dad's side. It started with giving her dilly bars at 4 months old, then soda, then not using a car seat safely, to not using a car seat at all around 2 years, sitting in the front seat around 5 or 6, and lice that lasted months because she didn't clean her house well enough.

 

The car seat is a BIG red flag, IMO. Soda, sure, whatever, but is she brushing her teeth? But if this grandparent is around the child 1+ days a week, they need to act more like a parent then the spoiling grandparent. DD1 had 4 teeth pulled, plus 4 caps put on because both her dad (my ex) and her grandma didn't make her brush her teeth. Being fun is no longer fun when there are long term consequences.

 

DD1 was 11 when I put my foot down and said no more... she can't be with her grandma alone. DD1 was into some crazy stuff for her age with boyfriends, lying, cussing online, on dating websites, etc. Her grandma knew all of it and didn't tell anyone. Heck, she promoted it!

 

If her grandma doesn't seem to care what your DD is saying is important, putting her foot down now is going to be easier than 10 years later. I know my case is extreme, but seriously... if they are just all fun and games, it NEVER gets easier. The kid will get spoiled rotten and as the parent, you are held responsible for it.

 

Whew... deep breath. Ugh.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Thank you for both points of view. I realize that these issues may seem insignificant to some but this is new to us and we don't know what is important and what is less so. We just don't want to have to look the baby in the eye when she is 10, 15 or 20 and try to explain to her why we didn't fight for her or why we let things happen when we could have or should have spoken up.

 

DD is doing her best to be a good mom and build a stable, promising future for her baby and herself. It is difficult to sit back and watch as the disagreements mount and DD's wishes are disregarded. My concern is if things such as soda, cigarettes and car seats are the 'simple' issues now, what will they be when she begins preschool or wants to take dance class or spend the night somewhere? What about monitoring friends, computer use and other activities?

 

I may be borrowing trouble and adding worry to an already stressful situation...I am simply heartbroken.

[Mandy in TN]

Thank you for both points of view. I realize that these issues may seem insignificant to some but this is new to us and we don't know what is important and what is less so. We just don't want to have to look the baby in the eye when she is 10, 15 or 20 and try to explain to her why we didn't fight for her or why we let things happen when we could have or should have spoken up.

 

DD is doing her best to be a good mom and build a stable, promising future for her baby and herself. It is difficult to sit back and watch as the disagreements mount and DD's wishes are disregarded. My concern is if things such as soda, cigarettes and car seats are the 'simple' issues now, what will they be when she begins preschool or wants to take dance class or spend the night somewhere? What about monitoring friends, computer use and other activities?

 

I may be borrowing trouble and adding worry to an already stressful situation...I am simply heartbroken.

None of what you state is in any way illegal. The courts simply will not care. I completely understand being heartbroken, but trust me the courts do not care about how your dd wishes to raise her child and will not ask the child's father to do something just because your dd wants him to do it her way.

 

The courts are only concerned if:

 

there is abuse or neglect as defined by the courts or immorality or illegal behavior with the children present or something that is in direct violation of whatever agreement has been filed with the courts regarding visitation, there is nothing that can be done.

The courts commonly listen to truly horrific stories that are clearly abusive and/or neglectful. They hear cases of meth labs next to cribs and sex acts (sometimes prostitution) with the children present. They hear cases where one parent is in violation of documents filed with the courts. Often these violations of a parenting plan will not restrict visitation (things like failure to pay child support or failure to pay agreed upon portion of medical bills), because visitation is for the child not the parent. For these things your best bet is to go through state child support services rather than back to court. Frankly, it has been my experience that parenting plans are nearly useless, because unless the offense falls under the abuse, neglect, or immorality/ illegal behavior with the children present (in which case you didn't need the parenting plan) or if one or the other parent has the money to keep the other tied up in court, the court just doesn't care what the other parent does. It isn't their business to force the other parent to behave in a way that you deem to be good parenting. Their job is only to be sure that the child is reasonably physically and emotionally safe as defined by law.

 

If it does not fall into one of those categories, let it go. These things are not within your power to change. In your head (or your dd in her head) repeat the mantra over and over. You may do whatever is easiest for you, but I will do what is best for my child. Then, hold yourself to it.

A lawyer may take your money and the judge may let you through the door but unless something is clearly against the law and documented don't count on the courts doing anything.

 

If the child seat is being used in a way that is not in compliance with the law, then I agree with the PP that suggested meeting at a fire station or somewhere that the grandmother can be shown the proper way to use the child seat. If she refuses after that, take pictures and call the police as she pulls away.

 

Really, I do empathize and I do understand the anger and the pain.:(

Mandy

Edited October 16, 2012 by Mandy in TN