HappyGrace Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 And if so, when did it change? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theYoungerMrsWarde Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 :bigear: :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jann in TX Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I do not think that 'officially' they are. I do know of several families/couples/singles who consider themselves missionaries in China==BUT they have other legitimate full time employment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 China does allow some foreigners to come in and do what would be considered missionary work by many Christians (for example, they are doing medical service and their visas say that). That doesn't mean I'd answer your question as a "yes" though. I think it's more accurate to say missionary work is still generally illegal in China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyGrace Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 The LDS have some non-proselyting missionaries there. An elderly couple in my ward went and taught English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I've heard someone say they were missionaries in China, but when I asked further they said it was Taiwan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 http://www.persecution.com/public/restrictednations.aspx?clickfrom=bWFpbl9tZW51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAPeachie Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I think most are "underground." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 It's not allowed. If you know of a Christian in China, it's better for their safety NOT to discuss it. Many go to China and other "closed countries" for humanitarian aid purposes, and it's a risky job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarlaB Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 It's not allowed. If you know of a Christian in China, it's better for their safety NOT to discuss it. Many go to China and other "closed countries" for humanitarian aid purposes, and it's a risky job. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stansclan89 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 The LDS have some non-proselyting missionaries there. An elderly couple in my ward went and taught English. :iagree: I've known some LDS missionaries that have gone there too. The LDS church does not send missionaries to places without consent of the government of that country, so it must be allowed in some context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 But I'm a bit out of touch. When I was there (I left four years ago) there were many missionaries, but they were all underground: they were there as teachers, students or charity workers. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 It's not allowed. If you know of a Christian in China, it's better for their safety NOT to discuss it. Many go to China and other "closed countries" for humanitarian aid purposes, and it's a risky job. :iagree::iagree::iagree: We have friends that do this with a medical group similar to Doctors without Borders. Some of the people they work with were murdered during their last assignment. Our friends made it out safely and are currently in an area that desperately needs doctors and nurses, but is relatively safe. But, we never, ever, ever, identified them or where they are at any given time. NEVER. As a matter of fact, it's a need to know type thing and except for their closest relatives (parents and siblings) our pastor and DH and I are the ONLY people outside their organization that knows where they are. It is THAT dangerous in some areas of the world. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 :iagree::iagree::iagree: We have friends that do this with a medical group similar to Doctors without Borders. Some of the people they work with were murdered during their last assignment. Our friends made it out safely and are currently in an area that desperately needs doctors and nurses, but is relatively safe. But, we never, ever, ever, identified them or where they are at any given time. NEVER. As a matter of fact, it's a need to know type thing and except for their closest relatives (parents and siblings) our pastor and DH and I are the ONLY people outside their organization that knows where they are. It is THAT dangerous in some areas of the world. Faith The worst I have heard of happening to foreign missionaries in China is deportation. I was threatened with deportation when I had some visa problems and the officials just assumed I must be a missionary because my Chinese was too fluent. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 The worst I have heard of happening to foreign missionaries in China is deportation. I was threatened with deportation when I had some visa problems and the officials just assumed I must be a missionary because my Chinese was too fluent. Laura China is relatively mild compared to some other areas where torture, hanging, and beheading are normal. Deportation is what I've heard of too, from that country. Assasinations are the norm in many of the Doctors Without Borders and other medical humnitarian organizations. There are a lot of places where being Red Cross is very scary. But, the media really doesn't give too much attention to it. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooCow Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 It's not allowed. If you know of a Christian in China, it's better for their safety NOT to discuss it. Many go to China and other "closed countries" for humanitarian aid purposes, and it's a risky job. :iagree: word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) If you know of a Christian in China, it's better for their safety NOT to discuss it. It is fine for a foreigner to be a Christian in China. No Chinese official ever asked me at any point if I was Christian. It is also fine to be a Christian person who is doing humanitarian work. It is against the law to be a Christian person who proselytises, whether or not this is accompanied by humanitarian work. Laura Edited October 9, 2012 by Laura Corin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 It is easier to do things like take Bibles into China from my understanding from others going in to China. This topic is of great interest to me as my father and his family were kicked out of China in 1949. His parents were Christian Missionaries. His father was a professor at a Seminary and his mother was a Nurse at a Mission Hospital. There are churches in China, but when we were there, we had to show our passport as being a foreigner in order to attend. Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeganCupcake Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 :iagree: I've known some LDS missionaries that have gone there too. The LDS church does not send missionaries to places without consent of the government of that country, so it must be allowed in some context. BYU's Kennedy Center for International Studies sends retired LDS couples to teach at universities (they teach English and sometimes other subjects related to the fields they worked in prior to retirement), but they are not missionaries. I believe they are instructed *not* to talk about their religion with their Chinese students and friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyGrace Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Thank you so much-this information helps our family know much better how to pray. It sounds like these brave missionaries of the Gospel (whether they are underground or not) need the prayers of ALL of us reading this too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 It is fine for a foreigner to be a Christian in China. No Chinese official ever asked me at any point if was Christian. It is also fine to be a Christian person who is doing humanitarian work. It is against the law to be a Christian person who proselytises, whether or not this is accompanied by humanitarian work. Laura Yes, and knowing the risk of being accused of proselytising, I'd err on the side of not mentioning names/places.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 It sounds like these brave missionaries of the Gospel (whether they are underground or not) need the prayers of ALL of us reading this too! Not 'ALL of us' reading this will agree with you. This board has a very mixed membership. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Not 'ALL of us' reading this will agree with you. This board has a very mixed membership. Laura Exactly. It sounds like some of the worst kind of bigotry and ethnocentrism to invade (and yes, I used that word purposely) another person's culture/country to try to engender them to your religion. :glare: "You are NOT good enough as you are. I MUST convert you to MY way of thinking!" :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyGrace Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Wow. I look at it as letting people know that there's a bus coming that will hit you and destroy you, and I love you enough to warn you so you can decide if you want to get out of the way. Even an atheist like Penn Gillette can see that if you truly believe that the bus is coming, it's unloving and cruel to not tell the one you believe is in danger about it. Anyway, I didn't want this to be a big ruckus at all. Please amend my previous statement to say that my family will be praying for the Chinese and those who minister Christ to them. And anyone else who needs prayer and love. Bowing out now. :) Thanks for the link to the VOM site-I had forgotten about that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapbookbuzz Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 They are not officially allowed. China is still very much a Communist area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 LOL. No, I doubt that Penn Jillette would agree. He would speak to the fact that we do not fear an imaginary bus. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyGrace Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Came back to link-good thing I did-lol He may think it's imaginary (I admitted he's an atheist! That's the definition.) But he respects that those who believe in the bus try, and thinks it would be unloving for them not to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) He may think it's imaginary (I admitted he's an atheist! That's the definition.) But he respects that those who believe in the bus try, and thinks it would be unloving for them not to try. And I have, in the past on this board, stated that I am happy for people to mention their faith to me (once!) so long as they then leave me alone. I'm less sure about deliberately breaking the laws of another country in which you are a guest in the name of a foreign ideology. For example: imagine that you have a heartfelt belief in the radical redistribution of wealth. You have grown up in a country where this has brought happiness to many people. You get a visa to go to America as a health worker, not mentioning your radical plans to the immigration officials. When you arrive in spring, you travel to a remote area, where you hope your actions will be less obvious. Stealthily over the summer months you spend time with the local homeless people, bringing them over to your views under the guise of offering them health care. Then, against the American laws of trespass, you lead the homeless people into private garages all over the city as the weather turns cold. And then you get all outraged when arrested and expelled from the US, and ask for international campaigns of letter writing to protest against the vile American government. Meanwhile, other health workers from your country, who work quite legitimately in the US, fall under suspicion of being lawbreakers, lose their jobs and get deported. Laura Edited October 9, 2012 by Laura Corin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 great example Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 great example Laura Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 great example Laura :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I have a family member married to a Chinese American man. For at least the last twenty years, their "jobs" have been to live in China and be Christian examples. People (in China) pay them to live as Christians among the Chinese. I always thought this sounded surreal. Apparently, so did one of their biggest sponsors, because a few years ago they had to scramble for funds when he pulled out to find his own sponsors. They've never mentioned any problems beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embassy Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Exactly. It sounds like some of the worst kind of bigotry and ethnocentrism to invade (and yes, I used that word purposely) another person's culture/country to try to engender them to your religion. :glare: "You are NOT good enough as you are. I MUST convert you to MY way of thinking!" :001_huh: This assumes that every person born and raised in a religion or way of life is satisfied with it. Some are and some are not. Some would be happy to hear of another way. I know that I am very happy someone had the guts to tell me about a different way than the way I grew up. Choices are a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I know some LDS missionaries (the regular, 19 year old kind) who were recently sent to Hong Kong, in China. Not sure if the laws are the same there though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hen Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Hong Kong is not mainland China, and also Taiwan is not mainland China- considers itself independent, though China does not and makes its presence known. The rules and way of life seemed more "relaxed" in Taiwan when I visited. I was in Taiwan in 2004 and participated in an event where we handed out Bible leaflets. As far as I understand, this would not have been allowed on the mainland. The set up with Hong Kong and Taiwan are kind of weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillian Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Taiwan and Hong Kong are a little different. Taiwan has it's own government, money, etc but is not recognized by many foreign countries because China claims it as a territory. Hong Kong was returned to China. There are still differences in how it is ruled from the mainland but there isn't a dispute over what country it is part of. Taiwan has freedom of religion written into their constitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Funny I was just thinking of this thread yesterday. It was great to read your example again Laura. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 And I have, in the past on this board, stated that I am happy for people to mention their faith to me (once!) so long as they then leave me alone. I'm less sure about deliberately breaking the laws of another country in which you are a guest in the name of a foreign ideology. For example: imagine that you have a heartfelt belief in the radical redistribution of wealth. You have grown up in a country where this has brought happiness to many people. You get a visa to go to America as a health worker, not mentioning your radical plans to the immigration officials. When you arrive in spring, you travel to a remote area, where you hope your actions will be less obvious. Stealthily over the summer months you spend time with the local homeless people, bringing them over to your views under the guise of offering them health care. Then, against the American laws of trespass, you lead the homeless people into private garages all over the city as the weather turns cold. And then you get all outraged when arrested and expelled from the US, and ask for international campaigns of letter writing to protest against the vile American government. Meanwhile, other health workers from your country, who work quite legitimately in the US, fall under suspicion of being lawbreakers, lose their jobs and get deported. Laura This is not a great example, the US allows folks to come in and do religious work in the US: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1272.html Further, I hope this kind of prosecution based on speech does not occur in the US. As far as I know it does not. I think it left with McCarthyism. I consider being able to proselytize a basic human right under free speech. If a country doesn't have it, they don't have free speech and basic human rights. You can find similar beliefs at the UN: http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/ccpr.htm see articles 18 and 19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 This is not a great example, the US allows folks to come in and do religious work in the US: http://travel.state....types_1272.html Further, I hope this kind of prosecution based on speech does not occur in the US. As far as I know it does not. I think it left with McCarthyism. I think that trespass is illegal in the US, is it not? I used an example of US laws being broken vs. Chinese laws being broken. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I think that trespass is illegal in the US, is it not? I used an example of US laws being broken vs. Chinese laws being broken. Laura So compare trespass to trespass. I imagine anyone going to China and encouraging the folks there to trespass on properties where they don't belong is also illegal. ;) I can't imagine anyone who is merely sharing their faith to those who might want to know about it is encouraging trespass elsewhere. ps I also agree that one should only offer to share once. If others aren't interested, quit. I actually like talking with others about what they believe - whether they agree with my beliefs or not. It helps me understand where they are coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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