Not sure how to ask this. Another 'is this kind of gross' question.

[mazakaal]

We're part of a local home ed group, and at the monthly meetings one of the moms brings along ingredients for the kids to do a cooking project, muffins, refrigerator cake, etc. My 10yo dd participates and really enjoys the projects, but she gets very frustrated with one of the other children who doesn't seem to understand hygiene at all. She's told me that this other girl, an 8yo, sticks her finger in the batter to lick it and has even licked the spoon and then stuck it back in the batter to mix again. I've been pretty particular with my kids about teaching them not to double dip because of germs, etc so dd thinks what this girl does is gross.

 

I've tried to ignore it because the girl in question has Down Syndrome and I'm assuming (yeah, I know what happens when you assume, so hopefully I'm not way off here) that she just isn't able to understand about germs. But it continues to be an issue with dd. So do I just try to get dd to overlook it because the little girl can't be expected to understand? Do I talk to the girl's mom or the mom in charge of the cooking? I don't want to be insensitive, but on the other hand, it is kind of gross to me too.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The batter goes into the pans and into the ovens. Any germs will be killed in the oven. It wouldn't be on my radar.

[mazakaal]

Yeah, but what about the refrigerator cake they made last week?

[shinyhappypeople]

Yes, it's gross but certainly not outside the range of normal for that age group (DS or not). I am constantly telling my 9 yo not to double dip and she still forgets in the excitement of cooking. I'd probably say something (gently) to the mom, though I'm not sure how I'd phrase it.

[Tammi K]

Yeah, but what about the refrigerator cake they made last week?

 

I just assume that's what our immune system is for. But, then, I'm not anything close to a germ-a-phobe (except where public restrooms are concerned 'cause ewwww, gross!)

 

Seriously, maybe the refrigerator cake wasn't a really great idea. Perhaps you should suggest they only create items that are cooked to insure they are heated to a safe level. Hugs to your daughter. I hope you find a good solution.

[mumto2]

Not sure what I would do. Maybe if the opportunity comes up with the mother I would explain that dd is very concerned about good food hygiene and that she may say something to the other dd so to be prepared for questions. I would add that we prepare food for our church often and that dd has been taught about hygiene because of this.

 

I know exactly how you feel. :grouphug:

[IsabelC]

My son has little concern for hygiene but I intervene to stop him from doing gross things.

 

What is this child's mother doing while she's putting her saliva in the cake mix?

I don't blame the little girl, especially if she is disabled and perhaps doesn't understand, but why isn't her mom in there helping/supervising her?

[amo_mea_filiis.]

It's possible that the little girl doesn't understand, or she could be impulsive, or it might not even be on the mother's radar.

 

Mine are both so impulsive that they would do the same. I know that when i bake with ds, the only way to keep him engaged is by letting him taste things.

 

I wouldn't be too concerned.

[eclecticschooler]

That grosses me out also. I agree it is not sanitary. Maybe it is safe because it is cooked, but it is still not socially correct. In my opinion, she should be corrected and encouraged not to do that. If only to show others that it is not correct. Not punished, but shown/told/encouraged not to do it.

[marbel]

Could you ask the person leading the cooking to give the kids a short lesson on cooking hygiene? And then remind every time, in a general way, so as not to single out the one girl? Her understanding would depend on her condition, but even if she doesn't understand about germs, she may be able to follow directions to keep her hands out of the food. Otherwise, you'd have to talk to her mom, or have your daughter do something else during that time and cook at home with you.

[stripe]

Some people also don't allow eating raw dough if there are eggs in it. I taste it but don't let my kids. I think you should not have tasting in case of disease from the ingredients. Someone can take that risk at her own home.

[1GirlTwinBoys]

What if you mentioned it to the mom and also showed her concern for her DD getting sick from the raw batter??? Might take the edge off a little.:) I don't like situations like that either.

[Lolly]

First, I would make myself available if possible to help with the cooking. Second, I would mention it to the mom in charge. Then, I would be around to help supervise. The mom in charge probably can't watch all the kids very closely at the same time. A brief kitchen hygiene lesson is probably in order first. All wash hands first. No tasting with explanation about salmonella in eggs. What to do if you forget (get new spoon, wash your hands again). If a child licks a spoon, I'd take that spoon and replace it with a clean one. If a finger goes in the batter...Well, you can't take the finger away; but you can make sure the hand gets washed. (Or, you could send a separate snack for your dd to eat that isn't made there.)

[Slipper]

My oldest has autism and helps me in the kitchen. She doesn't understand when we speak to her, but we can show her things with some comprehension. She used to love sticking her hands in the batter (no matter what we were cooking) to taste it. She's very into "senses" - she enjoys tasting and smelling and handling items. I encourage this because she has not always been a good eater and I like for her to be curious about food.

 

What we did for batter (since it is unsanitary, I don't care how long it's baked, I think it's a bit ick) was to give her several disposable plastic spoons and she would have to ask permission before tasting (she uses pictures to communicate and would tap on the words "taste batter"). I'd give her a small taste and she'd throw the spoon in the garbage. Yes, we went through tons of spoons.

 

If she licks her fingers across the spoon, we keep baby wipes in the kitchen and she wipes her hand off with one or a wet washcloth.

 

Perhaps some of these suggestions can be gently suggested to the mom? I would have the teacher talk with the mom and suggest that they use this cooking time to also teach her daughter about sanitary ways of cooking as well as having cooking projects.

[QueenCat]

I would talk to the class leader, not the mom. Group lessons on cooking hygiene might help, as well as an "aide" that happens to hang out near those that need help.

[In the Rain]

I would talk to the class leader, not the mom. Group lessons on cooking hygiene might help, as well as an "aide" that happens to hang out near those that need help.

:iagree: With kids this age, the leader might need to remind them weekly about proper cooking procedures. My kids see me taste food as I am cooking. They would need reminders that cooking for a group is different than cooking for your own family. ;)

[SitLongTalkMuch]

That grosses me out also. I agree it is not sanitary. Maybe it is safe because it is cooked, but it is still not socially correct. In my opinion, she should be corrected and encouraged not to do that. If only to show others that it is not correct. Not punished, but shown/told/encouraged not to do it.

 

Agreeing:001_smile:

[LostSurprise]

I would talk to the class leader, not the mom. Group lessons on cooking hygiene might help, as well as an "aide" that happens to hang out near those that need help.

 

:iagree: Extra time and care is needed, not ignoring the situation. She probably needs an aide part time. Someone who can remind her that she has a certain number of 'tasting' spoons. The tasting spoons should be a different size from her mixing spoon. She will soon be able to tell them apart (and hopefully to toss the tasting spoon in the sink after one lick), even if she doesn't understand the science behind it.

[Tammyla]

:iagree:

 

I would talk to the class leader, not the mom. Group lessons on cooking hygiene might help, as well as an "aide" that happens to hang out near those that need help.

[KathyBC]

Didn't you guys see the Mythbusters episode on double-dipping? Surprisingly not a high risk.

 

But yes, part of a cooking class could involve hygiene, so I vote for talking to the mom in charge of the lessons.

[bettyandbob]

I would talk to the class leader, not the mom. Group lessons on cooking hygiene might help, as well as an "aide" that happens to hang out near those that need help.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I have a child with Down Syndrome. I would rather hear from the class leader not another parent in the class. I experience way too much judgement about whether my child should be permitted here or there. I only want to hear from class leaders not random parents.

 

I'm not totally sure this has to do with DS. There are some families that don't emphasize hygiene in the kitchen. A cooking class for this age group should include hygiene. If I were leading the group, I'd been scanning constantly for finger licks because this is typical behavior at this age and sending kids to wash hands every single time I caught one.

[Garga]

 

 

:iagree:

 

I have a child with Down Syndrome. I would rather hear from the class leader not another parent in the class. I experience way too much judgement about whether my child should be permitted here or there. I only want to hear from class leaders not random parents.

 

I'm not totally sure this has to do with DS. There are some families that don't emphasize hygiene in the kitchen. A cooking class for this age group should include hygiene. If I were leading the group, I'd been scanning constantly for finger licks because this is typical behavior at this age and sending kids to wash hands every single time I caught one.

 

This is opposite to what I would have thought. I would have thought that going directly to the mom would be the most sensitive action. Going to the group leader about someone else's kid feels gossipy to me. But I guess I'm wrong.

 

Regardless of who gets told (the mom, the leader) it would be appropriate to talk about food preparation hygiene. It's not socially acceptable to stick your finger in someone else's food, or put a spitty spoon in the food.

 

Kids need to be taught these things. When my son was 8, we were making pizza dough in the bread machine. I have no idea what possessed him, but he leaned over the bread machine and spit into it.

 

I did not react calmly. It was more of a chicken squawking reaction, "WHAT?! WHAT?!? WHY did you SPIT in the dough!? Did your mamma raise you in a barn?! SQUAWK!" I threw it out and we started over. I couldn't handle the thought of having "spit" as one of our toppings on our pizza. Oh yuck.

 

Sometimes kids just don't "get it."

[SonshineLearner]

GROSS!!!!! :(

[QueenCat]

This is opposite to what I would have thought. I would have thought that going directly to the mom would be the most sensitive action. Going to the group leader about someone else's kid feels gossipy to me. But I guess I'm wrong.

 

 

As a parent of a child with autism, I do not want other parents opinions on what they think I should be doing in training my child. I'm probably aware of the issue, and am already doing what I can. Only if the teacher thinks its a problem should I be approached, and that should be by the teacher.

Edited October 5, 2012 by CathieC

[mazakaal]

Thanks for all the replies. We're a very small group and I know both women well. Reading all the responses has made me think that the best way to address the situation is to explain to the teacher that dd has been bothered by this and offer to help her oversee the kids if she needs another set of eyes in the kitchen. I think the parents have tried to stay out of her way most of the time because it's a very small kitchen, but at least if I offer to help she can either take me up on it or at least realize that it is a problem which needs to be addressed by her. Thanks again. I'm glad to know that it's not just dd and I that feel this is unsanitary and that I'm not expecting too much from the other girl. Thanks. :001_smile:

[mazakaal]

My oldest has autism and helps me in the kitchen. She doesn't understand when we speak to her, but we can show her things with some comprehension. She used to love sticking her hands in the batter (no matter what we were cooking) to taste it. She's very into "senses" - she enjoys tasting and smelling and handling items. I encourage this because she has not always been a good eater and I like for her to be curious about food.

 

What we did for batter (since it is unsanitary, I don't care how long it's baked, I think it's a bit ick) was to give her several disposable plastic spoons and she would have to ask permission before tasting (she uses pictures to communicate and would tap on the words "taste batter"). I'd give her a small taste and she'd throw the spoon in the garbage. Yes, we went through tons of spoons.

 

If she licks her fingers across the spoon, we keep baby wipes in the kitchen and she wipes her hand off with one or a wet washcloth.

 

Perhaps some of these suggestions can be gently suggested to the mom? I would have the teacher talk with the mom and suggest that they use this cooking time to also teach her daughter about sanitary ways of cooking as well as having cooking projects.

 

These are some really helpful ideas. Thanks.

[amey311]

Didn't you guys see the Mythbusters episode on double-dipping? Surprisingly not a high risk.

 

But yes, part of a cooking class could involve hygiene, so I vote for talking to the mom in charge of the lessons.

 

:iagree:

 

In case anyone wants to read up: http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/db/food/double-dipping-is-germ-warfare.html

 

It's still socially unacceptable, though, and it's a good social rule to learn.

[QueenCat]

Thanks for all the replies. We're a very small group and I know both women well. Reading all the responses has made me think that the best way to address the situation is to explain to the teacher that dd has been bothered by this and offer to help her oversee the kids if she needs another set of eyes in the kitchen. I think the parents have tried to stay out of her way most of the time because it's a very small kitchen, but at least if I offer to help she can either take me up on it or at least realize that it is a problem which needs to be addressed by her. Thanks again. I'm glad to know that it's not just dd and I that feel this is unsanitary and that I'm not expecting too much from the other girl. Thanks. :001_smile:

 

Being willing to be a part of the solution is almost always appreciated. Offering to help out is an excellent idea. I'd encourage not to let your daughter know it's for the other child, so she doesn't accidentally let it slip to said child or her mother.

[chicagoshannon]

Can you just suggest or bring a bunch of disposable tasting spoons?

[Julie in CA]

The very first lesson is *always* about safety and hygiene.

After that, we recite the rules during the beginning of every class time.

 

I'm definitely not a person who's overly sensitive about germs, but there's slightly unsanitary, and then there's gross. Sure, that kid may be healthy now, and the chances are slim that any infectious diseases would be passed along. The point though (imo) of classes like that, is that they are a part of instilling lifelong attitudes, habits, and knowledge. As such, I think it's irresponsible to teach the subject without also teaching the very basics of food safety.

 

Even the preschool kids I've taught have learned a few basic rules:

Long hair is tied back

We always start with washing our hands

Coughing, sneezing, or runny noses should be taken care of away from food, and then hands washed thoroughly.

No tasting anything ever unless I tell them they may do so.

 

I'd approach the teacher/instructor, and mention (without naming names) that I'd noticed some of the kids doing some things that aren't a good idea during cooking, and then I'd mention the kinds of things I'd seen. I'd probably say that I had an idea that maybe we could do one class session about food safety, and offer to make up a really basic, age-appropriate list/poster that we could go over with the kids about sanitary things like not licking fingers or spoons, etc.

 

If I got nowhere, I'd pull my kid from the class and offer to do some cooking classes for my dc and their friends at home.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Great post, Julie!

 

I would let my kid take your cooking class.

[I.Dup.]

Ummm, I would be seriously grossed out. Where was the mother???

 

And I would see this more as an age/family thing than a DS thing.

[Kathryn]

Great post, Julie!

 

I would let my kid take your cooking class.

 

:iagree:

[besroma]

Julie,

 

Your classes sound fantastic!

[magnificent_baby]

Haven't read all the replies.

 

Yes, that is gross. But, you cannot escape germs anywhere you go, especially if your kids are around other kids.

 

If you are helping with this co-op, I would use this as an opportunity to teach her not to do that. I would say, "Oh, sorry honey, we do not lick the spoon and put it back in. We don't want to share germs."

[stripe]

Sticking an unwashed finger in the food is not hygienic. It is not the same as double dipping. There are plenty of diseases transmitted through fecal matter, which are often on unwashed hands.

 

I was once at someone's house who collected bits of uneaten salad from various people's plates and threw them back in the bowl, at the end of the meal. :ack2: A friend and I both expressed our distaste, but I don't think the hostess cared!

[Upward Journey]

I was once at someone's house who collected bits of uneaten salad from various people's plates and threw them back in the bowl, at the end of the meal. :ack2: A friend and I both expressed our distaste, but I don't think the hostess cared!

 

:eek: I think you win!!!!

[lexi]

This would really bother me-cooked food or not. I can't stand when people lick their fingers and come anywhere near my food or anything I'm cooking. I also work to teach my kids the same things and the no double dipping.

But for a child with special needs-they probably truly don't understand. However, I think the parent of that child should be present to supervise and show her. Baked or not, I don't want saliva in my cake batter ever. So, I agree that it would be very gross-at least to me. I would probably bring it up with the person in charge to see if you could find a workable solution.

[Trish]

I wouldn't let any child taste batter that had raw eggs in it. The FDA definitely says to avoid that. And while some germs may be killed in the cooking process, not necessarily all. Plus there are other contiminants besides "germs." So I'd present it as a safety issue. If the other kids see her licking the batter, they may think it's safe because no one is stopping her.