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Argh! Thesaurus not listing many of the words in WWS.


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We are on week 3, Day 2, and ds, who struggles enough as it is, has been in tears over the fact that 2 of the first 3 words listed in the lesson to look up in the thesaurus are not in the index. He found synonyms in the table of contents, and we got by. But it's a bit too much frustration for a kid who is struggling as it is.

 

SWB-please make the words you choose for the first lesson easy ones!!

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We are on week 3, Day 2, and ds, who struggles enough as it is, has been in tears over the fact that 2 of the first 3 words listed in the lesson to look up in the thesaurus are not in the index. He found synonyms in the table of contents, and we got by. But it's a bit too much frustration for a kid who is struggling as it is.

 

SWB-please make the words you choose for the first lesson easy ones!!

 

We had to ditch our paperback thesaurus and get an older, more complete edition. It seems that newer versions have dropped many words, either to reflect the paucity of modern vocabulary usage or as a reflection of the availability of computer entries.

 

Fortunately, older thesaurus copies seem to be readily available in used book stores and library sales. I got ours from Paperback Swap.

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There must be a big difference between editions. I got the Roget's International, fifth edition, and she recommends the fourth.

 

We got the 7th edition, and I noticed things didn't line up as well as I would have liked, either. We had a little difficulty as well. In fact, my son is reworking that exercise today. I spent some time with him explaining how to find other words that might work, and I think he'll be OK. We shall see shortly!

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I just bought Roget's International Thesaurus 4th edition for $0.01 plus $3.99 shipping after reading all the reviews on Amazon. There is a solid reason for SWB to recommend this edition because newer editions from 5th and up are organized differently and are hard to use.

Edited by aomom
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Thank you for posting about this. I had tried WWS when it was in beta testing and we didn't make it to the thesaurus lessons. I just checked the one I have and it's the 7th edition. I plan to go back to WWS once we get through the last bit of IEW SWIB that we've been using.

 

Off to go find a 4th edition. :auto:

 

OK I'm back, I was just looking at my copy of WWS parent guide and in there all I see is this.

Beginning in Week 3, the student will need a thesaurus. Although any comprehensive thesaurus will work, the most recent version of the classic Roget’s International Thesaurus is recommended.

 

So I bought the most recent which is the 7th edition. Does anyone with the 7th edition wish to chime to let me know if there are similar problems as those listed above with it before I go off and buy the 4th edition.

Edited by nukeswife
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I was just looking at my copy of WWS parent guide and in there all I see is this.

Beginning in Week 3, the student will need a thesaurus. Although any comprehensive thesaurus will work, the most recent version of the classic Roget’s International Thesaurus is recommended.

 

Yes, this is the only recommendation I've seen and I think it needs revised. Based on our limited experience thus far, any comprehensive thesaurus can "work" in a general sense, but may well present frustrations. Our thesaurus differs significantly in organization, presentation, and word selection. I used it as a learning opportunity for Luke, but I'd prefer more ease of use and plan to buy the specific version (4th ed, apparently) that SWB used when writing the program.

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Yes, this is the only recommendation I've seen and I think it needs revised. Based on our limited experience thus far, any comprehensive thesaurus can "work" in a general sense, but may well present frustrations. Our thesaurus differs significantly in organization, presentation, and word selection. I used it as a learning opportunity for Luke, but I'd prefer more ease of use and plan to buy the specific version (4th ed, apparently) that SWB used when writing the program.

 

Thanks for clarifying, I think I'll go buy a copy of the 4th edition just to play it safe.

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I have to go back and look, but this has been a learning experience for me, as I had never been taught to use a thesaurus. My father in law is here, and he pointed out that to find the words, you first need to look what tense they are in and then look for the present tense form of the word. ie..looked, you would look for look. We have been doing that since (and then making the word we look up into the correct tense.) and it has been working.

HTH

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Iknow swb doesn't recommend this, but thesaurus.com works very well. My dd has had no problems using this.

 

:bigear: Is there any reason thesaurus.com should not be used? I taught dd to use the web site just last month and she likes it. The words we were looking for were not in our Roget's thesaurus.

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We used the 7th edition- so far it has been fine. All the words were there.
Awesome, now I don't have to hunt down a 4th edition.

 

On the other hand, someone else posted above that she has the 7th edition and things haven't lined up as well as she'd like. Hmmm....

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Could you elaborate on this, please? I have a 7th ed., and we've not had any significant problems using it with WWS. What is so different about editions before the 5th?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Rogets-International-Thesaurus-7th-Edition/product-reviews/0061715212/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_three?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addThreeStar&showViewpoints=0

The first review on this page helped me understand the difference between 4th and 7th edition and the reason that SWB stated in Week 3 Day 2 in the WWS 1 that 4th edition of this thesaurus should be used.

http://www.amazon.com/Rogets-International-Thesaurus-7th-Edition/product-reviews/0061715212/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_four?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addFourStar&showViewpoints=0

Also please read the second and the third review on this page.

 

My 4th edition cost $0.01 + $3.99. I am waiting for it to arrive.

Edited by aomom
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http://www.amazon.com/Rogets-International-Thesaurus-7th-Edition/product-reviews/0061715212/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_three?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addThreeStar&showViewpoints=0

The first review on this page helped me understand the difference between 4th and 7th edition and the reason that SWB stated in Week 3 Day 2 in the WWS 1 that 4th edition of this thesaurus should be used.

http://www.amazon.com/Rogets-International-Thesaurus-7th-Edition/product-reviews/0061715212/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_four?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addFourStar&showViewpoints=0

Also please read the second and the third review on this page.

 

My 4th edition cost $0.01 + $3.99. I am waiting for it to arrive.

 

Thank you! Those reviews were helpful. Hmm...I might look for an older edition, too, even though we are not having problems using the 7th ed. It would be interesting to compare the differences mentioned in the reviews (and to see what words have been deemed obsolete).

 

Not to be picky, but SWB didn't actually say that the 4th *should* be used. She said that it's the one that WWS is based on, but that the student would likely use another edition.

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Not to be picky, but SWB didn't actually say that the 4th *should* be used. She said that it's the one that WWS is based on, but that the student would likely use another edition.

 

 

I'm glad you said this! That's what I thought she said, too, but I was too lazy to go upstairs and get my guide. :tongue_smilie: I even thought that she had suggested getting the latest edition of Roget's, but again, I'm too lazy to go upstairs now and check! Now I want a 4th edition, too. Although we slogged through the exercise with the 7th and it was OK. It took two tries, but I think my son's list was suitable in the end, even if not perfect. He's got the Day 4 activity tomorrow, so I'm looking forward to what he will come up with. And I'm especially wondering if he'll remember to put the verb in the correct tense!

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Although we slogged through the exercise with the 7th and it was OK. It took two tries, but I think my son's list was suitable in the end, even if not perfect. He's got the Day 4 activity tomorrow, so I'm looking forward to what he will come up with. And I'm especially wondering if he'll remember to put the verb in the correct tense!

 

I just had a look in my TM for WWS 1. Week 3 Day 2 p. 31 says basically that the exercises are to give guidance in choosing good synonyms. But that it's important not to overcorrect, because the more the student reads/explores/experiments with words, the better the word sense will become. I'm thinking I'm not going to worry about my kids using a newer edition (although I am desperately curious now to see the older edition, just because I love language!). The above advice to remember to look up verbs in their present tense forms is helpful and is in WWS, too.

Edited by Colleen in NS
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I just had a look in my TM for WWS 1. Week 3 Day 2 p. 31 says basically that the exercises are to give guidance in choosing good synonyms. But that it's important not to overcorrect, because the more the student reads/explores/experiments with words, the better the word sense will become. I'm thinking I'm not going to worry about my kids using a newer edition (although I am desperately curious now to see the older edition, just because I love language!). The above advice to remember to look up verbs in their present tense forms is helpful and is in WWS, too.

 

Overcorrecting is something I have to be careful about. I probably overcorrected this exercise. Mostly I've been pretty good about not doing so. My son is a reluctant writer to begin with, but so far he's been enjoying this program, so I have to be careful not to turn him off. I think he will learn a lot just by progressing through the book. (Hopefully without too much nagging from mom!!)

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When I type "Roget's International Thesaurus 4th edition" into amazon, the listings range from 1933 - the 1980's. Are they all the same?

 

I would think that a numbered edition would have been published in just one year, but I think a lot of things about the world of book publishing and then find out I am wrong.

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I'm sure any reasonable thesaurus *can* work, but for a child who has real trouble with anything involving lots of sequential steps, and trouble with becoming easily frustrated, he needs a couple of easy successes before he can tackle a bigger challenge. So for a kid like him, I try to make sure I carefully follow the guide, assuming the curriculum writers have a plan in place. I don't think that was the case here. No big deal. I realize my kid won't always find what he needs, and I am working, daily, to increase his capacity to manage frustration.

 

My first post was a cry in the dark, more than anything else.

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WWS 1 student book page 32

"The number in the following description are based on the fourth edition of Roget's International Thesaurus" by SWB.

 

I was also about to buy the 7th edition on Amazon. But I read the reviews there and then checked the WWS student book and that sealed my deal for 4th edition. Of course any edition of any thesaurus may work just as well.

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...for a child who has real trouble with anything involving lots of sequential steps, and trouble with becoming easily frustrated, he needs a couple of easy successes before he can tackle a bigger challenge. So for a kid like him, I try to make sure I carefully follow the guide...

 

I hear you.

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My husband made fun of me for buying a thesaurus instead of using online :lol: I had no idea they were indexed! I have always used the cheap ones I guess. I think it is kinda cool ds is learning it that way.

 

Beyond "kinda cool", it requires more thought and, in turn, offers more rewards in terms of understanding ~ as evidenced by your introduction to the index. I think it does students a disservice to have them rely solely on an online resource.

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