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:grouphug:

I made crême caramel this morning and still have some in the fridge. Even better than icecream...

 

I think I need the recipe! Made a chocolate Bundt cake from a mix tonight. I needed quick chocolate/sugar and everything made in a pretty pan tastes better! We needed an outside activity, but it was way to windy and rainy. So we had cake!

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I think I need the recipe! Made a chocolate Bundt cake from a mix tonight. I needed quick chocolate/sugar and everything made in a pretty pan tastes better! We needed an outside activity, but it was way to windy and rainy. So we had cake!

 

LOL, I'm no good at following recipes. I did a search online, read through a couple, then did my own thing. I used half a gallon of milk and 14 eggs...made LOTS of crême caramel! That's why there's some left. It was a craving, inspired by a memory from a long time ago and the fact the the milk had been left out a little too long and I wanted to cook it and use it up...It's a fun recipe for kids because there are only 3 or 4 ingredients (ours was milk, eggs, and sugar), you get to caramelize sugar, and you cook it in a water bath--just some interesting cooking techniques we don't use very often, but actually super easy.

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No migraine so far today. WIN. :D And hubby took scriptures with him to bed to read last night!!! (Personal scripture study is a huge weak point for him. He never finds the time. I pulled them out intending to read some together to get back into that habit but he took them and wandered off, flipping through the pages himself. :lol:)

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Ya know, MamaSheep didn't say those things--lets try not to put words in each other's mouths, 'kay?

 

And I used to argue your side, Laura, until I realized through greater thought and analysis how much is missed with such a narrow focus, and how important those subtleties really are. I am sorry if I underestimated your understanding of my point of view. I can only go by what you have said here on the forum, which has not seemed to me to demonstrate more than a superficial familiarity.

 

:rolleyes:

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nm.

 

:grouphug: I saw your post before you deleted it. I encourage you to listen calmly and sensitively to your husband's concerns so that he knows that he can always talk to you about anything. My husband's attentive and compassionate ear has helped me so much as I navigate through this difficult time in my faith. Our relationship is closer and stronger as a result. If he had pushed me or shut me down, I would have withdrawn rather than sought his help and comfort.

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nm.

I didn't see your post, but it sounds like you could use a :grouphug:. Maybe one more. :grouphug:

Praying for faith restored and clarity of a God who loves him.

 

My husband is a non believer and won't have anything to do with a church.

And one for you too! :grouphug:

No migraine so far today. WIN. :D And hubby took scriptures with him to bed to read last night!!! (Personal scripture study is a huge weak point for him. He never finds the time. I pulled them out intending to read some together to get back into that habit but he took them and wandered off, flipping through the pages himself. :lol:)

Hooray for no migraine! (And for page-flipping hubbies too. :) )

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LOL, I'm no good at following recipes. I did a search online, read through a couple, then did my own thing. I used half a gallon of milk and 14 eggs...made LOTS of crême caramel! That's why there's some left. It was a craving, inspired by a memory from a long time ago and the fact the the milk had been left out a little too long and I wanted to cook it and use it up...It's a fun recipe for kids because there are only 3 or 4 ingredients (ours was milk, eggs, and sugar), you get to caramelize sugar, and you cook it in a water bath--just some interesting cooking techniques we don't use very often, but actually super easy.

 

Yuuuummmmm.....I haven't made flan in a long time. Now I am having a craving. And as it happens I came home from ds's outsourced class today and discovered that dh had forgotten to put the milk away after breakfast, so maybe I'd better cook it up quick!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by thegardener

Ya know, MamaSheep didn't say those things--lets try not to put words in each other's mouths, 'kay?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MamaSheep

And I used to argue your side, Laura, until I realized through greater thought and analysis how much is missed with such a narrow focus, and how important those subtleties really are. I am sorry if I underestimated your understanding of my point of view. I can only go by what you have said here on the forum, which has not seemed to me to demonstrate more than a superficial familiarity.

:rolleyes:

:banghead:

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:rolleyes:

 

I think it's the use of hyperbole that making it appear that you don't understand the other side of the argument, statements like that before we had the Priesthood but now we don't so our entire Priesthood leadership is purposefully repressing us, that Priesthood power is the only way men will ever go to church, that women have no power and need to go to the men for everything, that people who think it's okay the way it is are like anti-suffragettes with no ambition, etc. That's not what the argument against it has been at all, and the hyperbolic responses make it seem that you are stereotyping and generalizing the other side, not really understanding it.

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I think it's the use of hyperbole that making it appear that you don't understand the other side of the argument, statements like that before we had the Priesthood but now we don't so our entire Priesthood leadership is purposefully repressing us, that Priesthood power is the only way men will ever go to church, that women have no power and need to go to the men for everything, that people who think it's okay the way it is are like anti-suffragettes with no ambition, etc. That's not what the argument against it has been at all, and the hyperbolic responses make it seem that you are stereotyping and generalizing the other side, not really understanding it.

 

How would you explain it, then? Because God wants it that way? What? :bigear:

 

When I believed that it was right for only men to have it, I believed it was because men preside and women follow. God set it up that way. Women are helpmeets. They follow their husbands as their husbands follow God. I've also heard throughout the years in conference and at church that men need the priesthood because it makes them better. Women are already incredible and have great gifts of spirituality and sensitivity. Men need it so that they will be service-oriented. Women already are. Etc.

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How would you explain it, then? Because God wants it that way? What? :bigear:

 

When I believed that it was right for only men to have it, I believed it was because men preside and women follow. God set it up that way. Women are helpmeets. They follow their husbands as their husbands follow God. I've also heard throughout the years in conference and at church that men need the priesthood because it makes them better. Women are already incredible and have great gifts of spirituality and sensitivity. Men need it so that they will be service-oriented. Women already are. Etc.

 

I've already posted a lot about it here, and none of it matched what you had typed before. There is a huge difference between "it makes them better," which I agree with--I already posted about how at least my hubby, and a lot of men (not all) in general, do much, MUCH better with specific responsibilities, duties, and someone to report to, where women often (not always) tend to be more internally driven--and the idea that men would never go to church at all without the Priesthood requiring them to, which you posted. There is a big difference between between saying women have great gifts of spirituality and saying they are completely not respected and the "spirituality" is just a con to cover for it so they can keep the Priesthood away. There is a big difference between women are spiritual and men have no spirituality at all without the Priesthood. There is a big difference between women have Priesthood power in some places and a lot of power in their callings in others, and should be supported by the men in all their callings, and the idea that women have no Priesthood power at all and it was taken from them by an entire sexist Priesthood and must turn to the men for all decisions in their callings. And I have never heard the argument here that women must follow their husbands as their husbands follow God mentioned here. In fact, lots of quotes were given about how we are commanded to be completely equal and making decisions together, etc. It's that sort of disconnect I mean.

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This is what I used to believe (not my blog):

 

For some reason, it seems that many women struggle with being a woman. They seem to think, that in the church women are looked down on, are less than, because men hold the priesthood. I cannot understand this thinking AT ALL. It doesn't make sense, knowing what I know and believe about the Priesthood and about how Heavenly Father designed each of us. Being a woman is amazing, a gift, and it was not what was left over after Heavenly Father gave His sons the Priesthood! I hear so many women talk about the husband being the 'ruler' in the home... but I have found nothing in the gospel that suggests that men in any way rule over women. On the contrary, it is the exact opposite, as far as what the world refers to the meaning of 'rule'. After hearing women complain about their fear that women are less than men, I have studied and read everything I can get my hands on in regards to what 'rule' or 'helpmeet' means. The only conclusion I can come to is that the meaning of the words have been changed (and yes I can back this up by words of our prophets and others, most especially the Lord). Today, helpmeet seems to indicate a person of lesser stature, a subject or a subordinate. Which couldn't be further from the truth. In reality the meaning(s) mean "Even with or equal to", or the original meaning seems to suggest "to rescue", "to save", or "to be strong" or that Eve (woman) was created to be "a power (or strength) equal to him. Howard W. Hunter taught that "The Lord intended that the wife be a helpmeet for man (meet means equal) - that is, a companion equal and necessary in partnership."

 

We are equal. Not the same, but equal. Women complete men... men complete women. Two different parts to a puzzle. Two necessary parts to be exalted. What a wonderful and amazing idea... that man, and woman complete each other. Necessary to accomplish Heavenly Father's plan here on earth. I hope that I have lived my life in a way that each of you know that I am not afraid of how the world looks at womanhood, and motherhood. It is not something to be looked down upon. It is not something to dread, or despise, or wish away. There is nothing more noble than being a mother to children. But it isn't even about being a mother. If I had never given birth, I know that women are given that 'mothering' instinct for a reason. The Proclamation to the World explains what we believe. That the role of men and women are different.

 

http://mamahen15.blogspot.com/2012/03/to-my-daughters-my-thoughts-on.html

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How would you explain it, then? Because God wants it that way? What? :bigear:

 

When I believed that it was right for only men to have it, I believed it was because men preside and women follow. God set it up that way. Women are helpmeets. They follow their husbands as their husbands follow God. I've also heard throughout the years in conference and at church that men need the priesthood because it makes them better. Women are already incredible and have great gifts of spirituality and sensitivity. Men need it so that they will be service-oriented. Women already are. Etc.

 

Something I do not believe: Men have more power in the LDS church than women, but that's okay because God said so.

 

Some things I do believe:

 

Men in the LDS church receive power directly from God, conditioned upon faithfulness.

 

God has established a structured system within which God requires men to operate in order to access and use the power God gives them. This structured system assists in bringing order to the church body, clarity to the doctrine, and efficiency in administration.

 

Women in the LDS church receive power directly from God, conditioned upon faithfulness.

 

God allows women access to His power on terms that are very flexible and adaptable. This unstructured approach allows women to move freely, broadly, and responsively to accomplish God's work in ways that are not possible under a more rigidly regulated system.

 

God's power, delegated equally to men and to women, is most effective when both kinds of power are working in tandem, bringing both structure and flexibility to the church as a whole, and to church members individually.

 

Replacing the more flexible female way of operating with another rigid, structured "priestesshood" system in order to be more "like" the men would impede the progress of the church as a whole, and result in less freedom for individual women than we currently enjoy. It would be like replacing the flesh on the body with another skeleton. Two entangled skeletons just don't function the same as a skeleton working in tandem with muscles, blood, and internal organs.

 

The power given to men and the power given to women are equal; neither is superior to the other. God's highest blessings are reserved for those who have learned to truly respect and value both their own kind of power, and the kind wielded by the opposite sex, and who are able to work as equal partners to coordinate both kinds of power in a synergistic relationship that produces a new kind of power that is greater than the sum of its parts. The "fullness" of divinity includes both the masculine and the feminine. (Both men and women are created in the image of God.)

 

Women don't need to be exactly "like" men in order to be "equal" with men. I don't need the priesthood in order to be equal to a man any more than I need a beard in order to be equal to a man. The fact that I operate through my womanhood instead of through the priesthood makes me no less equal to a man than the fact that I reproduce with ovaries instead of with testicles.

Edited by MamaSheep
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Something I do not believe: Men have more power in the LDS church than women, but that's okay because God said so.

 

Some things I do believe:

 

Men in the LDS church receive power directly from God, conditioned upon faithfulness.

 

God has established a structured system within which God requires men to operate in order to access and use the power God gives them. This structured system assists in bringing order to the church body, clarity to the doctrine, and efficiency in administration.

 

Women in the LDS church receive power directly from God, conditioned upon faithfulness.

 

God allows women access to His power on terms that are very flexible and adaptable. This unstructured approach allows women to move freely, broadly, and responsively to accomplish God's work in ways that are not possible under a more rigidly regulated system.

 

God's power, delegated equally to men and to women, is most effective when both kinds of power are working in tandem, bringing both structure and flexibility to the church as a whole, and to church members individually.

 

Replacing the more flexible female way of operating with another rigid, structured "priestesshood" system in order to be more "like" the men would impede the progress of the church as a whole, and result in less freedom for individual women than we currently enjoy. It would be like replacing the flesh on the body with another skeleton. Two entangled skeletons just don't function the same as a skeleton working in tandem with muscles, blood, and internal organs.

 

The power given to men and the power given to women are equal; neither is superior to the other. God's highest blessings are reserved for those who have learned to truly respect and value both their own kind of power, and the kind wielded by the opposite sex, and who are able to work as equal partners to coordinate both kinds of power in a synergistic relationship that produces a new kind of power that is greater than the sum of its parts. The "fullness" of divinity includes both the masculine and the feminine. (Both men and women are created in the image of God.)

 

Women don't need to be exactly "like" men in order to be "equal" with men. I don't need the priesthood in order to be equal to a man any more than I need a beard in order to be equal to a man. The fact that I operate through my womanhood instead of through the priesthood makes me no less equal to a man than the fact that I reproduce with ovaries instead of with testicles.

 

:iagree: I don't think women need the priesthood to be equal to men. I don't give a flying fig that women don't have the priesthood now, and I sincerely don't care if we ever get the priesthood. It isn't even on my radar. I believe that our church was founded on revelation, I believe it continues with revelation, and I truly, sincerely, 100% believe that if God thought women should have the priesthood....we would.

 

Laura, I sincerely hope you receive the answers you need that will bring you comfort and peace. I'm sorry that you are struggling so much with this. :grouphug:

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[not meaning to completely derail the current highly interesting discussion, but...]

 

Did y'all see this?

 

What a relief to know I'm not in a cult anymore! :lol:

 

[and now back to our regularly scheduled Priesthood/Priestess debate]

 

My non-LDS family will be very happy to know this. :D

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So...out of curiosity, did anyone else watch the priesthood session of conference? There were some good talks in there.

 

I started listening the Monday after conference, but got interrupted (imagine that!) and haven't got back to it yet. My husband said it was a really powerful session. I'm glad they put the recordings up right away now, wasn't so long ago you had to wait for transcripts to come out.

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:grouphug: I saw your post before you deleted it. I encourage you to listen calmly and sensitively to your husband's concerns so that he knows that he can always talk to you about anything. My husband's attentive and compassionate ear has helped me so much as I navigate through this difficult time in my faith. Our relationship is closer and stronger as a result. If he had pushed me or shut me down, I would have withdrawn rather than sought his help and comfort.

 

Thanks. Admittedly, I am not always sensitive. Something I definitely need to work on!

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I watched President Monson's talk, "See Others as They May Become." Loved it. Exactly what I need to hear right now.

 

I liked that one a lot too. I especially liked this quote:

 

"During the 1940s and 1950s, an American prison warden, Clinton Duffy, was well known for his efforts to rehabilitate the men in his prison. Said one critic, “You should know that leopards don’t change their spots!â€

 

Replied Warden Duffy, “You should know I don’t work with leopards. I work with men, and men change every day.â€1"

 

I know the talk had nothing to do with autism, but this quote made me think of the times people have told me I shouldn't be too worried about teaching my son X, because autistic kids have such a hard time learning to do X. But he DOES learn, I've seen him learn to do all sorts of things he "can't" learn to do. Often it's just a matter of finding the baby steps. And the babies of the baby steps. And practicing them one at a time before trying to put them all together at the same time. And having a relationship of trust makes a HUGE difference too. There are times I have to sacrifice my own preferences in the short term for the sake of the relationship. But the trusting relationship is worth its weight in gold for the long term progress. When the relationship is solid he will do things for me that he would never EVER even attempt on the "bad" days. Sometimes it takes longer than I think it "should". Much longer than a regular child. Sometimes YEARS longer. But little by little it comes. There are still things I'm a little skeptical about him being able to do, but I have definitely learned that autistic kids are not leopards, so you should never say never.

 

Anyway...again, not that it had anything much to do with autism. Except that I sometimes get a glimpse of the unimpeded spirit that's inside him, and someday when the mortal imperfections are smoothed away he is going to be an INCREDIBLE guy. And I wish more people could see past what he is now to what he WILL be someday.

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