How much time to spend on a novel?

[bobbeym]

Okay, so we've traded in the literature textbook for a combination of NaNoWriMo YMP and literary works mostly selected by DS.

 

My problem is that I don't know how long to anticipate we'll need to cover each book. I have no problem building in flexibility b/c I know some books we'll want to spend more time on, but to sooth my ADD brain I need to at least have a penciled plan for the entire year.

 

I assigned 2 weeks to cover Secret Life of Walter Mitty only b/c it was short and I could stick it between a post-NaNo break and the holidays. Included in that 2 weeks are vocabulary words and a 1 page paper writing a new fantasy for Walter in the same style as the original story.

 

Here's the books we're planning to read this year. Each book also includes vocabulary and a writing assignment.

• Animal Farm & Fahrenheit 451 - 6 weeks + comparison essay
  
• The Outsiders - 3 weeks
  
• I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings - 3 weeks
  
• The Greek Gods - 1 week *this might be free reading
  
• Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - 2 weeks *may be discussion only
  
• The Princess Bride - 4 weeks *we may start this over the holidays
  
• Taming of the Shrew - 2 weeks
  

 

Are my time schedules looking about right? I based them on how quickly I know DS reads in comparison to the length and complexity of the book.

 

I also haven't sorted out what other writing assignments I'm going to give and I know that will impact my timeline. But his science is writing heavy with (7) 1-2pg video response essays, (2) 3-5pg research papers, and (1) 2-3pg argumentative essay, and we'll still need to schedule time for editing his NaNoWriMo novel.

[Candid]

These look long to me. Tapestry does both Animal Farm and Farenheit 451 in one week each (so two weeks total).

 

We just finished up doing all the Inferno and bits of the rest of the Commedia in two weeks. Now, it was a tough two weeks and the discussion each week was the longest we've ever done, but this was in my estimation much more difficult work than anything you've got listed so I think less time is doable.

[Harriet Vane]

Okay, so we've traded in the literature textbook for a combination of NaNoWriMo YMP and literary works mostly selected by DS.

 

My problem is that I don't know how long to anticipate we'll need to cover each book. I have no problem building in flexibility b/c I know some books we'll want to spend more time on, but to sooth my ADD brain I need to at least have a penciled plan for the entire year.

 

I assigned 2 weeks to cover Secret Life of Walter Mitty only b/c it was short and I could stick it between a post-NaNo break and the holidays. Included in that 2 weeks are vocabulary words and a 1 page paper writing a new fantasy for Walter in the same style as the original story.

 

Here's the books we're planning to read this year. Each book also includes vocabulary and a writing assignment.

 

• Animal Farm & Fahrenheit 451 - 6 weeks + comparison essay

• The Outsiders - 3 weeks

• I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings - 3 weeks

• The Greek Gods - 1 week *this might be free reading

• Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - 2 weeks *may be discussion only

• The Princess Bride - 4 weeks *we may start this over the holidays

• Taming of the Shrew - 2 weeks

 

 

Are my time schedules looking about right? I based them on how quickly I know DS reads in comparison to the length and complexity of the book.

 

I also haven't sorted out what other writing assignments I'm going to give and I know that will impact my timeline. But his science is writing heavy with (7) 1-2pg video response essays, (2) 3-5pg research papers, and (1) 2-3pg argumentative essay, and we'll still need to schedule time for editing his NaNoWriMo novel.

 

You should think in terms of 75-125 pages per week of reading. My dd is a fast, voracious reader, so I might assign her more like 150 pages. However, when I teach high school lit classes (have done so for years) I stick with 75-125 pages per week depending upon the complexity of the work.

 

Another good rule of thumb is that more than 3 weeks on a work will kill it. I rarely ever go as long as 4 weeks on a book, because at that point we're all sick of it.

 

(Of course, we haven't done any Russian novels yet. Something of that length and complexity would definitely need more than 3 weeks. I would have to come up with some creative ways to keep us "in the game.")

 

Looking at your list above, I can tell you that I would plan only one week on Animal Farm and on I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings. I would only give a week or two at most to Princess Bride.

 

Personally, I would have Princess Bride and Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy as free reading. Neither one is a meaty enough work to carry much weight academically. (And, honestly, Princess Bride is not well written either. It's one of those rare works in which the movie is far better than the book.)

[regentrude]

I am not familiiar with all the books, but I have a hard time imagining what one would do for six weeks with Animal Farm and Farenheit- both short books with accessible language and rather obvious messages. One week for each should be plenty.

 

ETA: I agree with strider that I would not consider Princess Bride or Hitchiker's Guide of a sufficient level to be studied as literature in high school. (FOUR weeks for Princes Bride??? That's the amount of time I'd give a complex thick novel.) Overall, your list looks very light.

Edited September 29, 2012 by regentrude

[Candid]

(Of course, we haven't done any Russian novels yet. Something of that length and complexity would definitely need more than 3 weeks. I would have to come up with some creative ways to keep us "in the game.")

 

 

 

Okay, you got me curious Tapestry does Crime and Punishment in five weeks, Pride and Prejudice in four, The Scarlet Letter, two.

[bobbeym]

See, I told y'all I wasn't any good at scheduling lit units. :lol:

 

Our old text had 3 weeks for Scarlet Letter plus another week on Hawthorne and his SS Young Goodman Brown. And it had 6 weeks on Tom Sawyer. THAT I thought was definitely overkill.

 

DS agrees with y'all. He says he can read most of the books in 2-3 days, but asked for a week for Shakespeare b/c he's only ever read R & J before and that was a couple years ago. So he thinks it'll take him longer to read and comprehend it.

 

He does have several free readings to do, so I'll include Bride and Galaxy to that list as well.

 

Thanks for the help!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Okay, you got me curious Tapestry does Crime and Punishment in five weeks, Pride and Prejudice in four, The Scarlet Letter, two.

 

Well, the timing of literature would be one area where I part ways with TOG. I think sometimes they schedule a book more in regards to the history themes of the book than the relative difficulty of the novel. I don't think it should take 4 weeks to cover Pride & Prejudice. I think that 2-3 weeks would be plenty. (A college class would typically assign a novel like P & P each week. Or shorter works like The Prince or The Song of Roland would get one class period and have a paper due the next period.)

 

On the other hand, TOG will have students reading books that I think are quite challenging in a short time; again I think because that's how long the period gets on the schedule. The more archaic the language or symbolic the writing, the longer I think you need to allot. And the age and ability of the kid matters. A kid who is just learning how to read a novel may take longer. With the goal in mind of moving them along to being a stronger and more experienced reader.

 

One other thought is that it depends on how much other reading you're doing at the same time. For example, we read Red Badge of Courage for history this year. I've been very lenient on timing, because they were also ready a weighty history of the war (Battle Cry of Freedom), listening to lectures and watching the Ken Burns series. The literature was only a part of a very big whole.

[Blue Lilac Studio]

This year I assigned more reading to my kids. I'll step it up each year until they are college-aged, so that they'll be prepared if they wind up in a reading-heavy program. My 10th grader has approximately 175 pages a week of literature readings. She isn't having any difficulty keeping up, and I think the selections are appropriate for her level:

 

Babbitt, Catcher in the Rye, Cold Sassy Tree, Flowers for Algernon, Gone with the Wind, The Heart is a Lonely Hunter, The House on Mango Street, I Never Promised You a Rose Garden, Manchild in the Promised Land, The Old Man and the Sea, One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, A Separate Peace, Slaughterhouse Five, A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Romeo and Juliet, Taming of the Shrew, Cyrano de Bergerac, Oedipus the King, Antigone

 

We discuss each work after she reads it, and she writes an essay every third book.

[Lori D.]

Just have to be different from everyone else here. :tongue_smilie:

Or, I guess we're just lazy slouchers, but...

 

We DO spend much more time on Literature here, and it is NOT overkill for us. No way *we* could have dug in with deep discussion and work on a good essay by knocking off BOTH Animal Farm AND Farenheit 451 in 1 week. We spent about 1.5 weeks on Animal Farm, and about 3 weeks on 451. BUT, we were reading aloud (about 50-75 pages per week), and discussing as we read, and then taking anywhere from 2 days to a week or so to write on the works afterwards.

 

Some of our time on Animal Farm was background reading on the history of the Russian Revolution and the similarities between various characters in Animal Farm with early Revolutionary figures. Some of our time with Farenheit 451 was looking at Bradbury's poetic use of language, comparison of some of his themes with today's culture, and comparison of the book with apocalyptic literature.

 

I'm always in awe of families who can do quality, quantity and speed simultaneously! But, alas, that is not us; our family has a slow "absorption rate" when it comes to Literature. I should add that we did get faster and did more solo work as DSs got older, but for 8th, 9th, 10th grades, we moved much slower. Just throwing my 2 cents worth into this thread, as different families have different abilities.

 

BEST of luck in finding the "speed" and volume that works for your family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Lori D.

[Harriet Vane]

Okay, you got me curious Tapestry does Crime and Punishment in five weeks, Pride and Prejudice in four, The Scarlet Letter, two.

 

I would try to do Crime and Punishment in four weeks, though it is such a rich book I might even extend it to five. I'd be very leery of going that long on one book though. I tend to want reading assignments big enough and long enough to trick the brain into "falling" entirely into the world/culture/language of the book--it's so much easier to absorb a lot that way, and easier to understand the jokes and witticisms.

 

FWIW, I got the idea for this type of immersion from CS Lewis, in Surprised By Joy. He was able to learn multiple languages and read the classics in their original languages by tackling it in larger chunks at a quicker pace. This turned my whole approach around, and I have to say it's been a stunning success with the groups I have taught.

 

It would only take two weeks to get through Pride and Prejudice, but I might be tempted to take it in three just because I love it. My other temptation would be to do P&P in two, then Sense and Sensibility right away in two, with one more week thrown in for comparison and discussion of various historical and cultural issues and a nice, big paper. I would do Scarlet Letter in two weeks, possibly allowing a third for another big paper AND related, really short readings from primary sources of that time.

[Candid]

Well, the timing of literature would be one area where I part ways with TOG. I think sometimes they schedule a book more in regards to the history themes of the book than the relative difficulty of the novel. I don't think it should take 4 weeks to cover Pride & Prejudice. I think that 2-3 weeks would be plenty. (A college class would typically assign a novel like P & P each week. Or shorter works like The Prince or The Song of Roland would get one class period and have a paper due the next period.)

 

On the other hand, TOG will have students reading books that I think are quite challenging in a short time; again I think because that's how long the period gets on the schedule. The more archaic the language or symbolic the writing, the longer I think you need to allot. And the age and ability of the kid matters. A kid who is just learning how to read a novel may take longer. With the goal in mind of moving them along to being a stronger and more experienced reader.

 

One other thought is that it depends on how much other reading you're doing at the same time. For example, we read Red Badge of Courage for history this year. I've been very lenient on timing, because they were also ready a weighty history of the war (Battle Cry of Freedom), listening to lectures and watching the Ken Burns series. The literature was only a part of a very big whole.

 

I agree Tapestry is driven first and foremost by history.

 

The other thing they do is with the first couple of works of the year they use them to teach out various general literary concepts that will get used all year so it's not just the work but the technique. Pride and Prejudice as the first book of the year is certainly in that category.

 

I think it depends on the college class as to how fast works are covered. I never had a survey class (which is the equivalent of what most high school lit course are) cover something like Roland or Beowulf in one period and require a paper on them the next period. And in a more in depth class you might spend a lot of time on one work. I also think professors spend more time on their pet works, too. During my own go through of a survey of Romantics to current we must have spent at least a week on Frankenstein because my professor liked the book (although I will say she use it as a way to bring out more points on the Romantics).

[Candid]

Crime and Punishment I'd be very leery of going that long on one book though. it's so much easier to absorb a lot that way, and easier to understand the jokes and witticisms.

 

If you got jokes and witticisms out of C&P, you did far more than I did in my pass through the book. :D

Edited October 1, 2012 by Candid

[bobbeym]

We DO spend much more time on Literature here, and it is NOT overkill for us. No way *we* could have dug in with deep discussion and work on a good essay by knocking off BOTH Animal Farm AND Farenheit 451 in 1 week. We spent about 1.5 weeks on Animal Farm, and about 3 weeks on 451. BUT, we were reading aloud (about 50-75 pages per week), and discussing as we read, and then taking anywhere from 2 days to a week or so to write on the works afterwards.

 

Some of our time on Animal Farm was background reading on the history of the Russian Revolution and the similarities between various characters in Animal Farm with early Revolutionary figures. Some of our time with Farenheit 451 was looking at Bradbury's poetic use of language, comparison of some of his themes with today's culture, and comparison of the book with apocalyptic literature.

 

I'm always in awe of families who can do quality, quantity and speed simultaneously! But, alas, that is not us; our family has a slow "absorption rate" when it comes to Literature. I should add that we did get faster and did more solo work as DSs got older, but for 8th, 9th, 10th grades, we moved much slower. Just throwing my 2 cents worth into this thread, as different families have different abilities.

 

BEST of luck in finding the "speed" and volume that works for your family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

The part bolded above is why I was originally thinking several weeks for these books. I'm just not sure we can really do any sort of in-depth discussion and writing in just a week or 2. Glad to know I'm not the only one!

 

I would try to do Crime and Punishment in four weeks, though it is such a rich book I might even extend it to five. I'd be very leery of going that long on one book though. I tend to want reading assignments big enough and long enough to trick the brain into "falling" entirely into the world/culture/language of the book--it's so much easier to absorb a lot that way, and easier to understand the jokes and witticisms.

 

FWIW, I got the idea for this type of immersion from CS Lewis, in Surprised By Joy. He was able to learn multiple languages and read the classics in their original languages by tackling it in larger chunks at a quicker pace. This turned my whole approach around, and I have to say it's been a stunning success with the groups I have taught.

 

It would only take two weeks to get through Pride and Prejudice, but I might be tempted to take it in three just because I love it. My other temptation would be to do P&P in two, then Sense and Sensibility right away in two, with one more week thrown in for comparison and discussion of various historical and cultural issues and a nice, big paper. I would do Scarlet Letter in two weeks, possibly allowing a third for another big paper AND related, really short readings from primary sources of that time.

 

I can't even begin to imagine teaching on C&P and P&P as I've never read any of them. Of course, I'm realizing just how many classics I haven't actually read before. It's kind of nice to give myself an excuse to read them, not that I need an excuse. :D

 

Would you mind sharing the short primary source readings you used for Scarlet Letter? It would make a good summer lesson for DS.

 

I agree Tapestry is driven first and foremost by history. I wanted Tapestry but DH nixed it. I'm glad b/c I don't think DS would have been able to handle the history overload.

 

The other thing they do is with the first couple of works of the year they use them to teach out various general literary concepts that will get used all year so it's not just the work but the technique. Pride and Prejudice as the first book of the year is certainly in that category.

 

I think it depends on the college class as to how fast works are covered. I never had a survey class (which is the equivalent of what most high school lit course are) cover something like Roland or Beowulf in one period and require a paper on them the next period. And in a more in depth class you might spend a lot of time on one work. I also think professors spend more time on their pet works, too. During my own go through of a survey of Romantics to current we must have spent at least a week on Frankenstein because my professor liked the book (although I will say she use it as a way to bring out more points on the Romantics).

 

We will be reading Beowulf next year. DS likes that time period, so I want to find other books that will tie together to cover a semester worth of Lit.

[bobbeym]

After a weekend spent working and reworking my planner, I think I've got it figured out. :D

 

Since DS only wants to read I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings b/c some of his friends are reading it, I went ahead and requested it from the library. He can read it as soon as it gets here and do an online quiz for it and we'll call it done.

 

Oct is NaNoWriMo pre-writing workbook. Nov is lots of writing.

 

The Secret Life of Walter Mitty got 1 week in mid-December and includes vocab and writing a new fantasy for Walter in the same tone as the original story.

 

Jan-Mar is for NaNoWriMo editing interspersed with 2 weeks each for The Taming of the Shrew w/ essay and The Outsiders w/ movie comparison.

 

I put Animal Farm and Fahrenheit 451 to start at the end of March, tentatively scheduled for 2 weeks. But if we go longer it won't matter since all we're doing April-May is a unit study on Edgar Allan Poe.

 

Free reading includes The Greek Gods, The Princess Bride, and The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, plus the new Percy Jackson novel when it releases next month, to be done anytime prior to June 1st.

 

I think that spaces everything out fairly well and gives flexibility to run shorter or longer as we need to, without throwing us completely off schedule at any one point in time.

[tex-mex]

 

Personally, I would have Princess Bride and Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy as free reading. Neither one is a meaty enough work to carry much weight academically. (And, honestly, Princess Bride is not well written either. It's one of those rare works in which the movie is far better than the book.)

:iagree:

 

Many high school teachers nowadays have the student pre-read the important book during the summer with a list of what to expect when school begins. I would not require the 2 books listed above as assigned readings, but free reading.

[Harriet Vane]

If you go jokes and witticisms out of C&P, you did far more than I did in my pass through the book. :D

 

Okay, my actual quote was:

 

I tend to want reading assignments big enough and long enough to trick the brain into "falling" entirely into the world/culture/language of the book--it's so much easier to absorb a lot that way, and easier to understand the jokes and witticisms.

 

I was speaking in general terms about literature study, though I will admit that reading that right after referring to C&P would be confusing.

[Harriet Vane]

Would you mind sharing the short primary source readings you used for Scarlet Letter? It would make a good summer lesson for DS.

 

 

 

We will be reading Beowulf next year. DS likes that time period, so I want to find other books that will tie together to cover a semester worth of Lit.

 

Re The Scarlet Letter--There are two ways to go with this. It was written in the mid-1800s, so one option is to read other works of that time to understand the author's context better. However, the book is set in the mid-1600s, so the other way to go is to read works from that time. The latter is what I would do, though I would specifically make sure that the students understand that SL is historic fiction, and therefore a more modern interpretation of an earlier time. One question we would ask in discussion would be: How well did the author capture the spirit and culture of the mid-1600s?

 

Reading selections might include: King James Bible, William Bradford's "Of Plimouth Plantation," works of Anne Bradstreet, Cotton Mather (especially with regard to the Salem witch trials), William Penn, and assorted others. I don't have an exact list--when planning, I go to a Norton Anthology for ideas and see what I can dig up from there. For SL, I would focus a LOT on Pilgrim writings and not worry so much about the literature across the pond (even though I loooooove John Donne and others).

 

For your Beowulf studies, I thought you might find the list I worked with helpful when I taught medieval literature to a group of high schoolers a couple years ago. That list includes:

 

Ecclesiastical History of the English People, Bede (selections)

3 short selections: "Battle of Maldon," "The Wanderer," "Dream of the Rood"

Beowulf

Mabinogion (selections)

Everyman

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight

Canterbury Tales, Chaucer (selections)

Utopia, Thomas More

Faustus, Christopher Marlowe

Life of Saint Theresa of Avila by Herself (selections)

Shakespeare (I forget which play we did--I teach one per year, whichever one is playing at the Chicago Shakespeare Theater.)

[Candid]

Re The Scarlet Letter--There are two ways to go with this. It was written in the mid-1800s, so one option is to read other works of that time to understand the author's context better. However, the book is set in the mid-1600s, so the other way to go is to read works from that time. The latter is what I would do, though I would specifically make sure that the students understand that SL is historic fiction, and therefore a more modern interpretation of an earlier time. One question we would ask in discussion would be: How well did the author capture the spirit and culture of the mid-1600s?

 

Reading selections might include: King James Bible, William Bradford's "Of Plimouth Plantation," works of Anne Bradstreet, Cotton Mather (especially with regard to the Salem witch trials), William Penn, and assorted others. I don't have an exact list--when planning, I go to a Norton Anthology for ideas and see what I can dig up from there. For SL, I would focus a LOT on Pilgrim writings and not worry so much about the literature across the pond (even though I loooooove John Donne and others).

 

 

 

I agree these two methods represent the way you want to tackle a piece of "historical fiction" like The Scarlet Letter. I would advocate that you read it at the time it was written. My experience is that such work tell us a lot more about the time they were written in than they do about the time they are about.

 

In this case I think you have that in spades the concepts Hawthorne is playing around with are not ones the puritans had. Instead they are ones that the early 19th century writers were concerned about.

 

Since I think the point at this age (high school) is to do literary analysis the focus should the author's point which comes from his own time. That doesn't mean you can't ask why he chose the historical time as his setting, just don't let the historical setting drive your discussion.

 

Here's a blog on the point: http://iwouldneverwearorange.blogspot.com/2009/06/fie-on-historical-fiction.html

[bobbeym]

Thank you both, strider & Candid.

 

You've both offered great ideas and I'll definitely keep them in mind for when I'm planning next year's course.