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If you live in StL keep your children indoors and purge your closet of red an blue


SJ.
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Keep your kids indoors in East St Louis during school hours or they will be arrested on sight and purge the closets of the men/boys in your house of red and blue because wearing those colors will also result in a arrest. :001_huh:

 

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2012/09/26/controversial-new-measures-planned-to-curb-violence-in-east-st-louis/

 

It sounds like thing are pretty bad there, those measures seem very drastic and I am curious if that is citywide or in specific areas. Is it even lawful to outlaw the wearing of specific colors? Any WTMers from that area care to chime in?

Edited by SJ.
I need a US geography lesson and better critical reading skills.
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East St. Louis is a tough neighborhood. The colors banned are gang colors. It's nothing new...high schools here have gang signs banned; one of the jobs the security guards have is pulling gang members down to the office if they are wearing or flashing.

 

I can't imagine living in that type of environment. It is very sad to me that families have to endure living amongst gang violence and that sweet little children grow up to be gang members.

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Asked about Constitutional concerns, and the need for probable cause, Parks says the recent wave of crime is the probable cause and justifies the extreme new measures.

“Vehicles that are moving will be stopped and searched for guns, weapons, drugs, and open alcohol and any other violations that are taking place,†Parks later told KMOX’s Mark Reardon. “People who are walking, people who are bicycling, can be stopped and searched for the same and, when it comes to state IDs, we’re going to be confirming that state IDs are in place for everyone involved.â€

 

I wonder if they ran this by their legal counsel?

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Well, if you are wearing the wrong colors and someone wearing the other color sees, you could be killed. Might want to take up your rights with the gangs as well.

 

I remember growing up near LA and if you went downtown, you have to be really careful about what clothes you wore.

 

That is something entirely different from threatening people with arrest and detention should they be dressed in these colors.

I am not saying people should not be careful and, of their own volition, avoid gang colors. It would be a smart thing to do.

But I question whether the government can prohibit a color of clothing without violating constitutional rights.

Big, big difference.

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East St. Louis is a whole other world from most of the greater St. Louis metro area.

 

This prohibition on wearing royal blue or bright red applies to East St. Louis, Illinois only.

 

:iagree: Whole other state with a big river dividing them. I haven't driven through East St. Louis for a while, but it was rather sad looking years ago and that was from the interstate.

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That is something entirely different from threatening people with arrest and detention should they be dressed in these colors.

I am not saying people should not be careful and, of their own volition, avoid gang colors. It would be a smart thing to do.

But I question whether the government can prohibit a color of clothing without violating constitutional rights.

Big, big difference.

 

While I agree with your statement, I would have to wonder WHY someone would be wearing gang colors in that city. If things have gotten this much out of control, and someone was walking down the street wearing royal blue, it would cause me to think 'gang member'. Maybe the police are claiming probable cause too.

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That is something entirely different from threatening people with arrest and detention should they be dressed in these colors.

I am not saying people should not be careful and, of their own volition, avoid gang colors. It would be a smart thing to do.

But I question whether the government can prohibit a color of clothing without violating constitutional rights.

Big, big difference.

:iagree:

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While I agree with your statement, I would have to wonder WHY someone would be wearing gang colors in that city. If things have gotten this much out of control, and someone was walking down the street wearing royal blue, it would cause me to think 'gang member'. Maybe the police are claiming probable cause too.

 

I wonder why some motorcyclists want the right to bike without a helmet, too, on the basis of their freedoms. But they do. There are many things that might be stupid to do, but for the government to outlaw them is rather extreme. Criminalizing clothing strikes me as pretty extreme. It seems almost like a way to solidify the gangs' habits.

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How sad. Another article linked on that page reads:

Police in East St. Louis say a 14-year-old boy was hospitalized after repeatedly being shot while mowing the grass at his home. Police Lt. Col. Ronald Ike tells the Belleville News-Democrat that the teenager’s mother called police to report that her son had been shot. She put the boy in her car and headed for the hospital before her vehicle was intercepted by an ambulance that finished that trip.
I read another article that she heard shots but didn't think anything as she hears them all the time. Now she is worried that he or the entire family will be a target since he lived, with five bullet wounds, and so could identify the shooter.

 

I simply can't imagine. Do you ever sit and think about what if you had been born there, or in Mexico City, or in North Korea or...

 

In the picture the mayor is wearing a bright red tie as he announces the prohibition against men/boys wearing bright red and royal blue. I wonder if he didn't think about that or what.

 

It looks like the ACLU is questioning the constitutionality of the dress issue.

Edited by sbgrace
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E St. Louis is a sad area. I know they have tried to turn things around. My dad grew up there between the 40's-60's. My first school was in the E. St. Louis school district in 1980-1982. Overcrowded and got violent after we left.

 

The last I heard about that school was that some students burned it down. I remember the school having nights for families to come in and watch films about the dangers of drugs. I was very young (k-1st grade) and still remember those films. They were so graphic of people sick from drugs, dying, etc... Thinking back on it now I wonder if there were families with drug problems that the school was trying to get through to.

 

Kelly

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I lived on the edge of the inner city (Chicago) for fourteen years and worked/volunteered frequently in the real, rough inner-city for sixteen years.

 

I understand that it is a war zone, and that people cannot live this way.

 

Having said that, I could never, ever condone the trampling of our constitutional protections that the linked article describes.

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While I agree with your statement, I would have to wonder WHY someone would be wearing gang colors in that city. If things have gotten this much out of control, and someone was walking down the street wearing royal blue, it would cause me to think 'gang member'. Maybe the police are claiming probable cause too.

 

What if they honestly don't know? I guess the residents would know, but visitors wouldn't. I know when I travel I've never researched the local gangs before I pack. Of course I would try to avoid any area where it's that big a deal or that dangerous a city, but you can't always find that out (or I don't know where to look). If I wandered into the wrong territory, I'd hope the police would warn me to stay out, not arrest me for accidentally dressing wrong.

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It is so sad that some families are trapped in those areas and have no way of moving out.

 

There is serious debate whether banning certain colors is infringing on First Amendment rights.

 

I'm sure it does but a society like we enjoy only works when citizens have self-control and maintain order on their own, you know? If people are bent on mayhem and destruction, the issue of rights doesn't really matter. People are already having their rights violated by criminals. It sounds like maybe it is more like a war zone than a neighborhood. There isn't an easy answer I guess. Sad all the way around. :(

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What if they honestly don't know? I guess the residents would know, but visitors wouldn't. I know when I travel I've never researched the local gangs before I pack. Of course I would try to avoid any area where it's that big a deal or that dangerous a city, but you can't always find that out (or I don't know where to look). If I wandered into the wrong territory, I'd hope the police would warn me to stay out, not arrest me for accidentally dressing wrong.

 

That brught to mind car seat laws, seat belts, texting while driving laws, etc.

 

I don't necessarily agree with it, but like they said, desperate times call for desperate measures. If nothing else has worked, do you worry about civil rights, or do you just throw up your hands and walk away? Tough situation. And I'm glad I'm not the one making the decisions!

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Keep your kids indoors in East St Louis during school hours or they will be arrested on sight and purge the closets of the men/boys in your house of red and blue because wearing those colors will also result in a arrest. :001_huh:

 

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2012/09/26/controversial-new-measures-planned-to-curb-violence-in-east-st-louis/

 

It sounds like thing are pretty bad there, those measures seem very drastic and I am curious if that is citywide or in specific areas. Is it even lawful to outlaw the wearing of specific colors? Any WTMers from that area care to chime in?

If you live in East St. Louis, you keep your kids indoors any time they aren't in school. Yeah, you can't imagine just how bad it is there. The only worst places in that area are Venice and Brooklyn.

 

BTW, people don't just go strolling through East St. Louis. If you go through there, it's in a vehicle and the only stop may be at the metrolink station. That's it. If you aren't from there, you don't stop anywhere...period. Okay, unless you are a bit out there, like my husband was, and did street ministry there.

 

I would like to see the ACLU stay out of this one. Honestly, that town is THAT bad, yes!

Edited by mommaduck
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E St. Louis is a sad area. I know they have tried to turn things around. My dad grew up there between the 40's-60's. My first school was in the E. St. Louis school district in 1980-1982. Overcrowded and got violent after we left.

 

The last I heard about that school was that some students burned it down. I remember the school having nights for families to come in and watch films about the dangers of drugs. I was very young (k-1st grade) and still remember those films. They were so graphic of people sick from drugs, dying, etc... Thinking back on it now I wonder if there were families with drug problems that the school was trying to get through to.

 

Kelly

My husband's parents grew up there also from the 50's-70's. His grandparents grew up there from the 20's on until they moved out in the 70's. When we were still living in the area, there were some contractors that had bought up land and tried building some nice neighbourhoods in ESL, but the people kept burning down anything they would build until the insurance companies refuse to insure anything built there. It's a very sad situation all around.

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:iagree: Whole other state with a big river dividing them. I haven't driven through East St. Louis for a while, but it was rather sad looking years ago and that was from the interstate.

 

Yeah, ask the Griswolds about East St. Louis. They made a wrong turn while heading for Walley World and got to meet some of the locals.

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I made a wrong tun into East STL once. It's not a place to go, no matter what color you are wearing.

 

I don't see how outlawing red/blue will solve anything. The gangs will simply find other signs. If they are wearing red/blue, at least it's easy for the police to see who is who.

 

I don't get why our country lets entire cities get like that.:confused: We shouldn't have to choose between our civil rights and our safety. We should send additional law enforcement to rip out the rings of *illegal* activity. Banning the colors is a short cut to aid to a police force who isn't managing the problem. I don't think it will have any long-term effect.

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We visit St. Louis sometimes but try very, very hard to make sure we avoid certain areas downtown and never cross over the bridge to Illinois. St. Louis is one of the top cities for violent crimes and homicides, the top in 2010 and #3 this year.

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2010/11/st_louis_named_most_dangerous_city_2010.php

http://247wallst.com/2012/06/11/the-most-dangerous-cities-in-america-2/3/

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What if they honestly don't know? I guess the residents would know, but visitors wouldn't. [/QUOte]

 

Who visits East St. Louis? It's painfully sad, but the extreme level of poverty, violence, lack of economic resources for education and general mayhem there is far from new. I recall reading about a school with sewage backing up into it in the early 1990s and another about a child dying for want of dental care. It is terribly sad and frankly appalling that this is possible in such a well off nation. I agree that focusing on colors is a misuse of police effort. They should be rooting out the illegal activity. Honestly, I doubt the local police force is 1/4 equipped to deal with the full extent of the issue. And even without gang violence, the problems of East SL are deep and vast. All of the gang members could become model citizens and the city would still be in a world of hurt.

Edited by kijipt
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This book is a little older, but it's still excellent and really gives you a sense of life in East St. Louis:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Savage-Inequalities-Children-Americas-Schools/dp/0060974990

Love the editorial review: East St. Louis, MO :glare:

 

It spoke of segregation. ESL is not dealing with segregation by force. One of my friends was "the last white girl in ESL". She became a very fast runner, having to run home from school fast enough to keep from getting beat up. White people moved out. Black kids use relatives' addresses in other towns (Belleville and O'Fallon mainly) and hop a metro bus daily to go to school in those towns just to avoid the ESL schools and actually acquire an education.

 

Honestly, the blame falls to the corporations that used to have plants there. They played the race card to break unions and then they turned around and abandoned the area. They created prejudices, fed off of any prejudices that were already there (on both sides...the area is rampant with racism from both white and black, though recent generations have been fighting against it, thankfully), and then just left, leaving what was once a thriving area in poverty. There is so much wrong with the area (not just ESL, but St Clair county) in regards to crooked politics, etc, that I'm not even sure where one should begin.

Edited by mommaduck
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My husband's parents grew up there also from the 50's-70's. His grandparents grew up there from the 20's on until they moved out in the 70's. When we were still living in the area, there were some contractors that had bought up land and tried building some nice neighbourhoods in ESL, but the people kept burning down anything they would build until the insurance companies refuse to insure anything built there. It's a very sad situation all around.

 

Did your husband grow up in the area around there? We were living in French Village when our school district was ESL. We moved into Fairview Heights when I was in 2nd grade. I think both ESL and Fairview were fighting over French Village but Fairview won out eventually.

 

French Village wasn't the best of places anyway and I think went downhill. There was a park I used to go to that had a trail and at the top you could see St. Louis and the arch. I would love to take my kids back there but there is no way I would go into that area.

 

It is so sad that gangs get the run of certain areas. I would say stand up to them but I'm sure that is very simplistic and naive.

 

My dad is always talking about people he grew up with in ESL. He has a lot of fond memories.

 

Kelly

Edited by kwiech
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I'm sorry, but when it gets to the point people in the United States cannot wear certain colors because a few have made the area a war zone then something beyond the level of city management needs to be done. People cannot live normally there because of the gangs. To me, this is a form of terrorism.

 

I completely agree but honestly I would say the gangs are a symptom of a larger issue of community decay. Even without the gang issue, ESL would have a whole slew of serious problems.

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Did your husband grow up in the area around there? We were living in French Village when our school district was ESL. We moved into Fairview Heights when I was in 2nd grade. I think both ESL and Fairview were fighting over French Village but Fairview won out eventually.

 

French Village wasn't the best of places anyway and I think went downhill. There was a park I used to go to that had a trail and at the top you could see St. Louis and the arch. I would love to take my kids back there but there is no way I would go into that area.

 

It is so sad that gangs get the run of certain areas. I would say stand up to them but I'm sure that is very simplistic and naive.

 

My dad is always talking about people he grew up with in ESL. He has a lot of fond memories.

 

Kelly

Last time we were there, West Belleville had turned into a ghost town. We had nearly bought a house there and had spent a good portion of our early marriage in West Belleville. My husband spent his early childhood in Fairview Heights, then O'Fallon once he hit school age. He moved to Lebanon by highschool and that is where we met (I was there because of my stepdad being stationed at SAFB).

 

My husband's parents and his grandparents have a lot of fond memories of ESL in it's heyday also. I have pictures from the early 1900's of ESL when his great grandparents moved there.

Edited by mommaduck
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I completely agree but honestly I would say the gangs are a symptom of a larger issue of community decay. Even without the gang issue, ESL would have a whole slew of serious problems.

 

The city has no money. I believe there was a case in the 90's where a man sued the city of ESL and was given City Hall. That was some time ago and I don't know the state of ESL finances now.

 

Kelly

Edited by kwiech
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Well, if you are wearing the wrong colors and someone wearing the other color sees, you could be killed. Might want to take up your rights with the gangs as well.

 

I remember growing up near LA and if you went downtown, you have to be really careful about what clothes you wore.

 

:iagree::iagree: I grew up in San Benito, TX and for a while it was this way when they were having the riots at the high school {we lived less than a block away}

 

You learn REALLY quick to pay attention to what people are wearing and what the new grafitti is - it can save your life.

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The city has no money. I believe there was a case in the 90's where a man sued the city of ESL and was given City Hall. That was some time ago and I don't know the state of ESL finances now.

 

Kelly

 

From what I understand, it is basically as bad as ever. The city has essentially been running (if you can call it running) on empty since the loss of industry decades ago. Things were bad in ESL in the 60s and 70s. They have been even worse since the 1980s. I believe their population is actually now what it was in the 1890s and almost a 1/4 of what the city was built for.

Edited by kijipt
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Well, if you are wearing the wrong colors and someone wearing the other color sees, you could be killed. Might want to take up your rights with the gangs as well.

 

I remember growing up near LA and if you went downtown, you have to be really careful about what clothes you wore.

:iagree::iagree:

 

Having lived in Southern CA... near inner city areas like Compton, Watts and Garden Grove... rival gangbangers could care less WHO you are or legal rights. You wear the wrong colors on their turf, it is bad news.

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Yeah, ask the Griswolds about East St. Louis. They made a wrong turn while heading for Walley World and got to meet some of the locals.

That actually happened in real life in the 90's in inner city Los Angeles. A family lost in the wrong side of town drove past gang members who shot them -- the parents were killed.

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:iagree::iagree: I grew up in San Benito, TX and for a while it was this way when they were having the riots at the high school {we lived less than a block away}

 

You learn REALLY quick to pay attention to what people are wearing and what the new grafitti is - it can save your life.

When I began teaching back in the late 1980s, we had police officers attend our weekly meetings to inform us of what rival gangs (our school in Southern CA bordered both areas) were up to. And how to decode the tags on our buildings. We were told upon hire, to get out of the school buildings by 4pm and never stay late or on weekends due to gang violence. Quite sad.

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I have lived in inner city my whole life. Some cities in other states may be worse but I find it hilarous that people think simply banning colors will be much of a help. Gang members don't only wear one color (for those who even claim a color). I mean there are so many different ways that they identify themselves that you'd have to ban all colors, tattoos, piercings......I don't see how this would even help. Even though I lived in a neighborhood that was claimed by a gang who wore blue I had no issues walking home from high school wearing blue, or red, or black....I was never bothered. I never heard of anyone in my area getting harmed simply for wearing the wrong color-unless they were affiliated with a gang already and had decided to switch loyalties. I just find it beyond hilarious that they think this will do anything.

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I'm sorry, but when it gets to the point people in the United States cannot wear certain colors because a few have made the area a war zone then something beyond the level of city management needs to be done. People cannot live normally there because of the gangs. To me, this is a form of terrorism.

 

:iagree:

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I have lived in inner city my whole life. Some cities in other states may be worse but I find it hilarous that people think simply banning colors will be much of a help. Gang members don't only wear one color (for those who even claim a color). I mean there are so many different ways that they identify themselves that you'd have to ban all colors, tattoos, piercings......I don't see how this would even help. Even though I lived in a neighborhood that was claimed by a gang who wore blue I had no issues walking home from high school wearing blue, or red, or black....I was never bothered. I never heard of anyone in my area getting harmed simply for wearing the wrong color-unless they were affiliated with a gang already and had decided to switch loyalties. I just find it beyond hilarious that they think this will do anything.

I have. And such was the case in the article.

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Those that have or do currently life in this type of area how do you fix it?

 

Last night three girls and one boy were arrested breaking in to a home on the first night of the curfew run? Parents for what ever the reason are not always stepping up. How do you fix??? I live not to far away from there and the bad element is moving in to my area. This is not a color issure (blue red or black white it very much is a mind set from my experience). What are real world ways to go in and fix the are and those surrounding it so that people can safely walk outside and play or mow the grass? This is an honest question as I really dont know the answer but my future depends on it! :bigear:

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What are real world ways to go in and fix the are and those surrounding it so that people can safely walk outside and play or mow the grass?

 

I grew up in gang area where crossing the road from my home to the bus stop would cross gang territories. Where store owners have to pay the gang "protection money". I get to see the SWAT team pretty often.

 

Unfortunately for that neighborhood, the problems are:

Family generations of gang members, sons join fathers' gang

Drug peddling leading to protection of territory - gang fights

Gang members who have been in and out of prison so often they have stop caring - we locals coin the term "prison rotating door syndrome"

 

I don't see any quick fix unfortunately.

 

ETA: my neighborhood parent handbook advise that students not turn up in all black as its a local gang color.

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