XPost: Math Suggestions

[mom31257]

Sorry, xpost in wrong board!

 

Ds is in 4th grade and will finish BJU 4th math right after Christmas. He is definitely a kid that understands math easily, even concepts that he hasn't been taught yet. I would like to have him on track to do Algebra 1 in 8th grade using Lial's Beginning Algebra. Would those of you who've used Lial's recommend Lial's BCM in 7th?

 

He likes BJU math, especially the length of the lessons (active boy!). I also own some of the LOF books. Should I just continue BJU and try to finish through their 7th grade book by the end of 6th, or should I change to something else to get him ready for Lial's or some other Pre-Algebra that you might recommend?

 

I want to make sure he's challenged because I feel he'll end up in a math/science field. Thanks for any suggestions!

 

 

4th: BJU 4th/??

5th:?? (LOF Fractions)

6th:?? (LOF Decimals & Percents)

7th: Lial's BCM & LOF Pre-Algebra with Biology

8th: Lial's

[AimeeM]

After using a traditional spiral program like CLE, we decided to do pre-algebra again using a conceptual program (for us, that is Math Mammoth 6 with Hands on Equations and Dragon Box algebra) because of *where* we want to end up in Algebra. I'm not sure about Lial's but we want to use Jacob's for algebra and I've heard it's a more conceptual program. *If* Lial's is more conceptual, it may be a good idea to move over to a conceptual program now (I think BJU is mastery but more traditional than, say, Singapore or Math Mammoth?). I will say that I am very glad we moved over NOW to a conceptual program; I think we would have run into problems using a more conceptual algebra coming from a program like CLE. Just my two cents though :D.

[mom31257]

After using a traditional spiral program like CLE, we decided to do pre-algebra again using a conceptual program (for us, that is Math Mammoth 6 with Hands on Equations and Dragon Box algebra) because of *where* we want to end up in Algebra. I'm not sure about Lial's but we want to use Jacob's for algebra and I've heard it's a more conceptual program. *If* Lial's is more conceptual, it may be a good idea to move over to a conceptual program now (I think BJU is mastery but more traditional than, say, Singapore or Math Mammoth?). I will say that I am very glad we moved over NOW to a conceptual program; I think we would have run into problems using a more conceptual algebra coming from a program like CLE. Just my two cents though :D.

 

Thank you! I keep seeing the word conceptual on all the math threads, and I don't really see the difference when I look at samples of other programs. Can you tell me what those are? I looked through the samples of MM 4th grade and it was the same things ds has done in BJU. One difference I do see is that MM has explanations on the student pages while BJU's explanations are mostly in the teacher's book.

Edited September 28, 2012 by mom31257

[wapiti]

Thank you! I keep seeing the word conceptual on all the math threads, and I don't really see the difference when I look at samples of other programs. Can you tell me what those are? I looked through the samples of MM 4th grade and it was the same things ds has done in BJU. One difference I do see is that MM has explanations on the student pages while BJU's explanations are mostly in the teacher's book.

 

I haven't seen BJU, so I cannot compare, but the topics covered are indeed likely to be the same. The difference (if there is one) would be that the initial instruction on a topic emphasizes understanding of the math concept more heavily than a traditional curriculum before moving on to teaching the algorithm. In addition, there's a lot of word problems/problem solving. Problems may be more thought-provoking, i.e., there's more depth. (As you noticed, MM has no teacher manual - it's written directly to the student. That's a different aspect than the conceptual nature of the instruction itself).

 

I haven't seen Lial's algebra, though I have the prealgebra and BCM. At a glance, they are fine, traditional, not especially conceptual. BCM is easier than Lial's Prealgebra. I probably would not choose BCM for your mathy kiddo except for particular situations, such as fast acceleration to get through the rest of arithmetic, but even then there may be better choices. If you are sticking to traditional curricula, my impression is that there's nothing wrong with Lial's.

 

If you think you have an especially math-inclined student, there are other programs you might consider that may develop mathematical thinking to greater depths than Lial's. For example, in addition to MM at the elementary level, there's SM, which may be less incremental than MM - which is more suitable would be a whole other thread. For higher math, AoPS is outstanding, as are other options (Jacobs, Foerster, Dolciani, etc.).

[PeterPan]

Amy, with the new updates, especially for the 7th and up, BJU has become very, very strong. Since he LIKES the BJU math and is doing WELL with the BJU math, I advise you to stay put. In the old edition elementary they had a supplemental workbook called Stretch Your Mind. Now I think they put those types of worksheets (things to really make you think) on the cd in the tm. Have you found them? Make sure you're using them! They were one of our favorite things about the BJU elementary math.

 

I'll just be blunt here, but I think BJU is going to be a stronger sequence than Lials for a very good student. Lials is a remedial college text. It gets the dirty work done, but that's not really saying much. BJU is written to have problems to challenge appropriately more advanced/capable students. So when you hit the junior high stuff, you have C level problems, the dominion through math problems (more sophisticated word problems), and the pages to make them think in the activities manual. I'm doing the new edition pre-algebra now with my dd, and I'm VERY impressed with where it's going. I have or have bought and sold just about everything (Lial, Foerster, Jacobs, LoF, MM, Dolciani, on and on). The BJU stuff is *top notch* now with the new editions. I got Discovering Algebra, thinking that inductive approach and more life-oriented problems would be good for her. What should I see, but many of the activities I liked in Discovery Algebra (by the guy who wrote Patty Paper) are IN the BJU math! The BJU math is *rich*. That's what you give up if you go to a remedial college text. Sure they'll learn the basics. I just think it's worthwhile to have a *rich* math experience and explore it from lots of angles and include ancillary topics and more challenging applications and whatnot.

 

So anyways, if you were shying away from the BJU math because you thought it wasn't as good as the other stuff out there, you don't need to anymore. It's good!

 

And yes, I would keep going right on through the BJU math. Start the 5 (new edition of course) when he finishes 4. Just keep right on going. And you know I would throw in the LoF and whatever else you like as well. I think HOE is good to do around 5th, 6th grade (or earlier with some kids). He might like to do these things during the summer. So he could do some LoF this summer and do HOE next summer. Absolutely add those things in. But you can keep right on going with the BJU he likes and have this solid spine. They've upped the level on the math to keep up with new testing standards, so you know he's going to test well with it.

[mom31257]

I haven't seen BJU, so I cannot compare, but the topics covered are indeed likely to be the same. The difference (if there is one) would be that the initial instruction on a topic emphasizes understanding of the math concept more heavily than a traditional curriculum before moving on to teaching the algorithm. In addition, there's a lot of word problems/problem solving. Problems may be more thought-provoking, i.e., there's more depth. (As you noticed, MM has no teacher manual - it's written directly to the student. That's a different aspect than the conceptual nature of the instruction itself).

 

I haven't seen Lial's algebra, though I have the prealgebra and BCM. At a glance, they are fine, traditional, not especially conceptual. BCM is easier than Lial's Prealgebra. I probably would not choose BCM for your mathy kiddo except for particular situations, such as fast acceleration to get through the rest of arithmetic, but even then there may be better choices. If you are sticking to traditional curricula, my impression is that there's nothing wrong with Lial's.

 

If you think you have an especially math-inclined student, there are other programs you might consider that may develop mathematical thinking to greater depths than Lial's. For example, in addition to MM at the elementary level, there's SM, which may be less incremental than MM - which is more suitable would be a whole other thread. For higher math, AoPS is outstanding, as are other options (Jacobs, Foerster, Dolciani, etc.).

 

I didn't realize Lial's had a Pre-Algebra. I thought BCM was their Pre-Algebra. I'm definitely open to options for him. I used Lial's with dd last year, and I really enjoyed using it.

[mom31257]

Amy, with the new updates, especially for the 7th and up, BJU has become very, very strong. Since he LIKES the BJU math and is doing WELL with the BJU math, I advise you to stay put. In the old edition elementary they had a supplemental workbook called Stretch Your Mind. Now I think they put those types of worksheets (things to really make you think) on the cd in the tm. Have you found them? Make sure you're using them! They were one of our favorite things about the BJU elementary math.

 

I'll just be blunt here, but I think BJU is going to be a stronger sequence than Lials for a very good student. Lials is a remedial college text. It gets the dirty work done, but that's not really saying much. BJU is written to have problems to challenge appropriately more advanced/capable students. So when you hit the junior high stuff, you have C level problems, the dominion through math problems (more sophisticated word problems), and the pages to make them think in the activities manual. I'm doing the new edition pre-algebra now with my dd, and I'm VERY impressed with where it's going. I have or have bought and sold just about everything (Lial, Foerster, Jacobs, LoF, MM, Dolciani, on and on). The BJU stuff is *top notch* now with the new editions. I got Discovering Algebra, thinking that inductive approach and more life-oriented problems would be good for her. What should I see, but many of the activities I liked in Discovery Algebra (by the guy who wrote Patty Paper) are IN the BJU math! The BJU math is *rich*. That's what you give up if you go to a remedial college text. Sure they'll learn the basics. I just think it's worthwhile to have a *rich* math experience and explore it from lots of angles and include ancillary topics and more challenging applications and whatnot.

 

So anyways, if you were shying away from the BJU math because you thought it wasn't as good as the other stuff out there, you don't need to anymore. It's good!

 

And yes, I would keep going right on through the BJU math. Start the 5 (new edition of course) when he finishes 4. Just keep right on going. And you know I would throw in the LoF and whatever else you like as well. I think HOE is good to do around 5th, 6th grade (or earlier with some kids). He might like to do these things during the summer. So he could do some LoF this summer and do HOE next summer. Absolutely add those things in. But you can keep right on going with the BJU he likes and have this solid spine. They've upped the level on the math to keep up with new testing standards, so you know he's going to test well with it.

 

Thanks for all the info! Do you know if BJU plans to revise their high school books? I started the year with BJU's Algebra 1 and wasn't very impressed with it. Keep in mind that I was using it with my child who doesn't love math, but even though I do, I still felt that it lacked something. I couldn't really put my finger on it, so I tried Lial's just to see. I loved the layout of the book. The examples were very thorough, which is good when a student is doing their actual assignment. BJU didn't have good examples, IMHO.

 

I'll definitely be checking out BJU's middle school books at the next convention.

[PeterPan]

You were using old edition or new edition algebra 1? The algebra 1 is new for 2012. It has a blue cover. http://www.christianbook.com/algebra-1-teachers-edition-with-rom/9781606820469/pd/270561?item_code=WW&netp_id=966744&event=ESRCQ&view=details

[mom31257]

You were using old edition or new edition algebra 1? The algebra 1 is new for 2012. It has a blue cover. http://www.christianbook.com/algebra-1-teachers-edition-with-rom/9781606820469/pd/270561?item_code=WW&netp_id=966744&event=ESRCQ&view=details

 

I did it last year, so it was the previous edition. I'll check it out at the convention, too. Thanks so much!