Math for 1st Grade

[classicHSmom]

I think that I may need to switch my DD's math curriculum. We are just finishing Saxon 1 with sketchy results. I have ordered Saxon 2 for the fall, but am having second thoughts about the curriculum. I don't want to advance her without a concrete understanding of the basics, which I don't feel like she has. I was thinking that I would just supplement with Singapore (1A/1B) as suggested in TWTM. However, now I'm wondering if this is the direction to go.

 

She is great at memorizing the facts but I don't feel that she's gaining a true understanding of math. She has trouble with place value, counting backwards, figuring out patterns (ex. 43, 42, 41,_,_,_), and deciding the right answer when asked to fill in a/the missing number (ex. which number fits between 28 and 36).

 

So, would you stick with Saxon and supplement? If so, with what? If I supplement with Singapore, do I use the assignment in Singapore that corresponds with the lessons in Saxon out of the daily workbooks or do I use the extra/intense practice workbooks?

 

Also, I have been watching lots of math threads on here and have seen rave reviews for Rightstart math, MUS, Singapore and R&S.

 

I was initially adverse to programs like RS and MUS, but see that many of you love them. What do you love about them? Which is better of the two? If it helps in your advice, I can get MUS free and would have to pay for RS.

 

Singapore sounds great, but I do have true concerns about it's lack of drill and practice. I feel that DD need these to feel successful in math. R&S would be my final choice just because it's the one I know the least about, but if you love it, let me know why.

 

Here are my final thoughts on Saxon. DD likes worksheets and doesn't mind that Saxon is black and white. She especially likes the days that fun activities are planned (experiments, grocery store, high manipulative use, etc.). She gets tired of practicing her math facts but will do it. But, as I mentioned, she just isn't excelling with it.

 

So, tell me what would be a good fit for her? My first choice would be to do just one curriculum (I don't have lots of extra money or time to do two), but will supplement one with another if necessary.

 

Thanks!

[farmwife]

Personally I would stick with Saxon. It is such a gentle and thourough approach to math that I really think it would help her understand those issues with it's constant review. Are you using the Meeting Book at all? This is a huge help to my dd, who is challenged by math. The repetition is great for her.

 

I have used MUS Alpha with her and all it did was confuse her, I personally do not care for the way it teaches place value or how to count numbers "one-t-one" (11) etc., we took a huge step back when we used it. However, this is only my opinion, many use it and like it but it was not a good fit for my dd.

 

I am also going to use Singapore with my dd as a supplement. Try to stick with Saxon 2 I think your daughter will do well with continued practice.

 

HTH!

[fractalgal]

I think that I may need to switch my DD's math curriculum. We are just finishing Saxon 1 with sketchy results. I have ordered Saxon 2 for the fall, but am having second thoughts about the curriculum. I don't want to advance her without a concrete understanding of the basics, which I don't feel like she has. I was thinking that I would just supplement with Singapore (1A/1B) as suggested in TWTM. However, now I'm wondering if this is the direction to go.

 

She is great at memorizing the facts but I don't feel that she's gaining a true understanding of math. She has trouble with place value, counting backwards, figuring out patterns (ex. 43, 42, 41,_,_,_), and deciding the right answer when asked to fill in a/the missing number (ex. which number fits between 28 and 36).

 

So, would you stick with Saxon and supplement? If so, with what? If I supplement with Singapore, do I use the assignment in Singapore that corresponds with the lessons in Saxon out of the daily workbooks or do I use the extra/intense practice workbooks?

 

Also, I have been watching lots of math threads on here and have seen rave reviews for Rightstart math, MUS, Singapore and R&S.

 

I was initially adverse to programs like RS and MUS, but see that many of you love them. What do you love about them? Which is better of the two? If it helps in your advice, I can get MUS free and would have to pay for RS.

 

Singapore sounds great, but I do have true concerns about it's lack of drill and practice. I feel that DD need these to feel successful in math. R&S would be my final choice just because it's the one I know the least about, but if you love it, let me know why.

 

Here are my final thoughts on Saxon. DD likes worksheets and doesn't mind that Saxon is black and white. She especially likes the days that fun activities are planned (experiments, grocery store, high manipulative use, etc.). She gets tired of practicing her math facts but will do it. But, as I mentioned, she just isn't excelling with it.

 

So, tell me what would be a good fit for her? My first choice would be to do just one curriculum (I don't have lots of extra money or time to do two), but will supplement one with another if necessary.

 

Thanks!

 

Do you have the Saxon manipulatives? Has she been reading the 100 number chart every day? It sounds like an issue with base 10.

Have you done the '10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1,BLASTOFF!' ?

I'd stick with Saxon, but use manipulatives of some type for these issues.

My son just finished Math 1, and his favorite part is using manipulatives.

I would encourage patience, too. I think she will pick it up soon.

:)

[Pink Fairy]

Is your daughter a rising 1st grader? If so, I think your description of her difficulties is very much related to her young age. I know you want practice and drill, but I'd recommend slowing down and using lots of math manipulatives, games, and a hundred number chart for a while. I'm took this approach for the first time with my own rising 1st grader, and I am so pleased with the results!

 

People seem to either love or hate Saxon, and I'm sad to say that I forced it on my 3 oldest kids for 4 years even though they were in the hater's camp. There was such a sigh of relief when I switched! It was the constant review that drove them crazy.

 

:grouphug:

[gandpsmommy]

Have you considered using Singapore exclusively? Or with another curriculum to supplement? You can order Intensive Practice books from Singapore to go with the textbooks and workbooks, if you feel your daughter will need/want extra practice. And you can use flash cards to drill math facts. I use Singapore and Miquon with dd, and we have found it to be a great combination for us.

[prim*rose]

Dd is going to start in with RS Level C this year. We've done it from the beginning and to answer your questions, it works great for my dd because she can see it and understand it that way. It has always clicked with her and made sense, I think because of the manipulatives. RS has place value cards that you may be able to use with your existing program, and a card games book you can buy to sort of practice in a non-threatening way. I'm sure someone with more experience will be around to help more :) Good luck

[Ummto4]

Right Start Math :thumbup:

However, it's expensive. I bought mine used for a bit less than half price. However, you mention your child loves worksheet, so may be she won't like RS. It does have worksheet, but much less than saxzon. IT drills using games instead.

 

Other good but cheaper alternative is Math Mammoth worktext . Get the blue series if your child needs to strengthen only one or two areas. Otherwise, try the light blue series for a complete grade worktext . It's quite similar to Singapore in that it has pictorial --> abstract approach (you have to add manipulative yourself though), it's mastery, teaches conceptual understanding and it has lots of practice (including a good amount a variety of word problem) using worksheet. I don't know whether it has as many practice as saxon, but the practice is certainly more than what is contained in the Singapore Primary Math. The text is very logical and self explanatory. It also has similar mental math strategy to Singapore. The website is: http://www.mathmammoth.com

 

Don't be fooled with its appearance. You may think that it's just a collection of worksheet bundled together to form an ebook. But it's not.

 

I guess you can see it clearly if you bought the lightblue series (the complete one). I can't comment on the blue series (the topical one, and the first one published), but I can tell you what is contained in the light blue series. E.g. chapter one is about addition. IT moves from the concept of addition (2 balls and 3 balls are 5 balls) to using symbol (2 balls plus 3 balls equals 5 balls) to finding the missing addend using picture. It moves gradually from pictorial to half abstract half picture to 100% abstract. Once chapter one is finished, you get to chapter two. Chapter two on substraction builds on chapter 1. It shows clearly the link between addtion, substraction and missing addend. It explains explicitly how to use substraction to solve problem:

a. to substract something (e.g. 3 takes away 2, you're left with one).

b. to find missing addend.

There's plenty of practice and scenarios (word problem) for your child to understand the additon-substraction concept.

 

YOu can also try the topical series, or the blue series of math mammoth. It's cheap - only cost $2-3. However, I don't know whether there's such explicit continuity between concept if you bought two different ebook, eg. the addition ebook and substraction ebook. With the complete program (lightblue), the logical progression between topic is obvious.

 

You should see it for yourself.

 

Oh ... you also mention about place value. It teaches place value similar to singapore and RS. MM uses the concept of place value a lot when teaching regrouping and carrying in the later grade (I believe grade 2). However, I find RS is the one which stresses on place value for the longest time. Whilst Sing, MM, RS all use symbols like three-tens for 30 when teaching place value, I believe, RS is the longest one using such symbol, before teaching children to use the proper name. I think on the K level, 75% of the book talks 30 as three-tens. On 1st grade level (book B), it's around 40%.

 

 

 

I currently use RightStart B and supplement with Math Mammoth light blue for first grade (light blue is the complete curriculum, not the topical worktext) to get different perspective. RS is heavy on manipulative stage (mainly abacus) then go to abstract stage using visualization of abacus. Math mammoth (or singapore) seems good to fill in the gap, i.e. the pictorial stage. My son understands the concept better if we move from manipulative stage to pictorial stage to abstract. Once got to abstract stage, RS wins hands down (compared to Math mammoth + S'pore) because of its visualization tool i.e. the abacus. Drilling-wise, RS also wins because it's fun fun fun to drill using RS method.

 

 

 

HTH

Dian

[Ummto4]

I forgot you asked about RS vs MUS.

 

 

MUS manipulative is rod of different length, each representing different number. This can present a problem because it's just a representation, but not true number which a child can see.

 

In contrast, RS' principal manipulative, the abacus is very good and logical, because it doesn't show representation. It shows real things. So, in abacus, 10 is shown by 10 beads. 100 as 100 beads or ten-tens beads. In short, the manipulative itself is manipulable (is this a word ?), whereas MUS manipulative is NOT manipulable.

 

RS uses games mainly card games to drill. My son learn 10 number bond in short time.

 

Singapore; you should buy extra practice sheet if you are going to use singapore, because the primary math itself does not contain that many practice. Then it'll get more expensive ...:001_smile:

 

HTH

Dian

[dcjlkplus3]

We are just finishing up Bob Jones Math 1 and my daughter has done great with it all year. I have already bought the K5 and 2nd grade levels for next year. None of the pages have a lot of problems and there is review at the end of every lesson.

[Targhee]

If you want a solid foundation in base-10 math then RightStart or MUS have it. Singapore too, but you are right about drill. The nice things is, it is sooooo easy to print up a drill sheet from the internet for free that you could easily add that in. Also, Singapore has it's own Intensive Practice and Challenging Word Problems book for further practice. Singapore, as taught in schools, has a 60-second drill every day where student works through as much of a drill sheet as possible. (teachers make up the drill sheets, so you could do the same by borrowing from MUS website drill sheets or others).

 

RS seems to have the conceptual side of math you are looking for. Singapore as well, but with RS it is more concrete (the abacus). The only thing I didn't like about RS is that dd didn't work on her own at all - everything involved me. That makes it hard to get to other kids who need your attention. We're now using Singapore and Miquon, which together are a very constructivist method of developing math concepts. We started at 1A, which is a lot of review, but we're just doing it over the summer. When we start 1B I plan to get the Intensive Practice and Challenging Word Problems.

[summer]

I would change. I am sorry, I have never liked Saxon, especially not in the K-3 levels or the Alg and above levels.

[Mommy22alyns]

I would drop Saxon, but that's colored by my experience as well. You don't sound completely happy with it and with how your DD has learned from it, and that's reason enough to change.

 

Saxon did not fit with Becca's learning style at all. You can see in my siggy, we're working with Singapore and Miquon. For this age, I have her using manipulatives constantly so she does have an understanding of how numbers work. We also make up stories keyed to real life to practice the addition and subtraction. She gets excited and involved when we start talking about popsicles and little girls playing outside and princess crowns! :001_smile:

[Margo out of lurking]

>>So, would you stick with Saxon and supplement? If so, with what?

 

I've had a love/hate with both Saxon and Singapore over the years. With both of them, I swore I would NEVER use it again, but I did. I've learned. :D

 

When newer hsers ask me for possible recommendations, I always suggest MUS--although I've never used it, haha.

 

If *I* were in your shoes, based solely on what you've written and what I know now, I would continue with Saxon for at least another half year. *I* would supplement with lots of FUN games, and living math books from www.livingmath.net. (These are terrific book suggestions that you can find at your library!!!) "Games" would include any board game that is age appropriate and fun for your dd: Chutes and Ladders, dominoes, Trouble, War, Connect Four, UNO. These will teach her concepts in a slightly different way, reinforce what she's learned, and continue her logical thinking.

 

(ALTHOUGH if you can get MUS for free, I might consider giving that a shot. Can you get your dd to play with it before beginning the rest of your "real" school year?)

 

Saxon 1, 2, 3 was overkill for us as written. Use what is working (fun activities); if she is tired of practicing her math facts, perhaps you can have her do as many as she can in 1 or 2 minutes, instead of completing the entire set. Her goal can then be to improve her number of completed facts. Or look at Games for Math by Peggy Kaye or Family Math by Jean Kerr (check your library or ILL those!!!), and find fun ways in those books to reinforce.

[classicHSmom]

Thank you everyone who has replied. I will have to look into your suggestions, play the games and read the books mentioned.

 

Do you have the Saxon manipulatives? Has she been reading the 100 number chart every day? It sounds like an issue with base 10.

Have you done the '10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1,BLASTOFF!' ?

I'd stick with Saxon, but use manipulatives of some type for these issues.

My son just finished Math 1, and his favorite part is using manipulatives.

I would encourage patience, too. I think she will pick it up soon.

:)

 

Yes, we do have the manipulatives and we use them. No, we don't review the number chart every day, but we do most of the meeting stuff that practices certain types of counting. She can easily count to 100 and further, but would actually reading it every day make a difference?

 

I've heard lots about MUS and RS, but not much about Singapore works. How does Singapore teach base 10? Would Singapore paired with its extra practices (or others that I find) be sufficient? I see that many of you use Miquon. I have been under the impression that Miquon and Singapore are similar.

 

For those of you hate Saxon, do you hate it because of what it is (black and white, repetitive, lots of time, etc.) or do really feel that it is inferior?

[fractalgal]

 

Yes, we do have the manipulatives and we use them. No, we don't review the number chart every day, but we do most of the meeting stuff that practices certain types of counting. She can easily count to 100 and further, but would actually reading it every day make a difference?

 

 

For those of you hate Saxon, do you hate it because of what it is (black and white, repetitive, lots of time, etc.) or do really feel that it is inferior?

 

Children benefit from repetition. Students don't have the many years of experience using math like we do.

 

It's difficult to compare math programs for several reasons:

1. The teacher's ability and motivation

2. The student's ability and motivation

3. The curriculum itself in relation to 1. and 2.

4. The communication of the curriculum

 

Saxon is expensive, time consuming, and repetitive. Yet it builds a strong base.

 

I use it one grade level ahead for my children, and I supplement with Singapore's Challenging Word problems for variety and to help develop strong problem solving ability. I allow myself the freedom to skip things that I don't think are necessary.

 

When you're starting out it's wise to stick with programs that have been around for awhile - programs that have proven results.

[Mallory]

I don't know if Miquon and Singapore are similar, but we love Miquon.

 

The reason I don't like the early Saxon levels is because they are soooo boring. For me and my kids, who really like math, Saxon would make us come to dread it. So maybe it is the repetive, lots of time for a tiny idea part. I don't think it would be the black and white part, because even though the font is often red, or blue or green in Miquon there aren't pictures and each page is still just one color of writing.

 

 

I think your best bet, as young as she is, is to take 3-6 months off from a real curriculum and play games that you have. Games with dice and money and score keeping. Practice math facts when you are waiting somewhere or riding in the car. We always go back and forth, they ask me, then I ask them, and for a change, we sometimes agree on an answer first. For example, problems that add up to 13. So I might say 6+7, then he'll say 2+ 11. Or try something like the Games with Math or Family Math books (I'd pick Games with Math as the easiest to use, at least we seem to get more things done from it). Giver her some time to mature, and see math as fun. Then start back in a math curriculum.

 

She has plenty of time to learn, and this is probably one of those things you can struggle with for the next 6 months or take a break and breeze through in 6 months.

[Sunshine State Sue]

I haven't read all the responses, but I wanted to suggest that you check out one of Cathy Duffy's curriculum manuals at the library. She does a great job of helping you determine your child's learning style, then tells which programs are better/worse for that learning style.

 

FWIW, every time I have looked at Saxon, it looks horribly tedious to me. Right Start was not available when we started in K, but I have heard good things about it. We've used MUS from K and we're now in Algebra. My lengthy review is in this thread.

[Pink Fairy]

As far as Saxon goes, it's made two of my children math phobic. They think math is boring, tedious, and an overall horrible invention. The constant repetition just grated on them. On the other hand, I don't deny that it gave them a strong foundation. :001_smile: With future children I'm hoping to get the strong foundation without the accompanying dread that came with Saxon. ;)

[Margo out of lurking]

For those of you hate Saxon, do you hate it because of what it is (black and white, repetitive, lots of time, etc.) or do really feel that it is inferior?

 

It did not teach my dd to learn to think. Instead, it taught her that it would lead her to an answer, spoonfeeding her, in effect. When it came time for her to actually have to figure out problems in 5/4 and 6/5, she struggled.

 

My ds was just utterly and completely bored by it, no matter how quickly we accelerated through. (But he's a kid who taught himself short division...)

[stacey05]

I am going to use Abeka for my first grader's math program.