# I need help with K math

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We've been trucking through Singapore EM just fine - book A, anyway. We hit book B and slowed way down. We started place value and I realized DS couldn't reliably identify numbers 11-20. He can count orally just fine, he can tell me what comes before/after a number fine (well, most of the time). He can show me a certain number of things using counting bears or whatever. What he cannot do is look at the written number and tell me what it is correctly with any consistency.

We've worked for 2 weeks on just this. Just counting, showing numbers with counters, just using number flashcards from 1-20. He's just not getting 11-20. He does understand somewhat place value with tens and ones. We count school days with popsicle sticks and bundle them up and move them to the tens bucket, etc. Every day we do that, count to 50, run through flash cards 1-20, make numbers with counters, and it's not clicking. I tried explaining number patterns.

Just commiserate with me. Or offer helpful suggestions. Or send some sort of alcholic chocolate bon bons for my children to fetch for me.:tongue_smilie:

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When you do your school day counting, do you emphasize (over and over and over) the place value? ie, "23... 2 tens, 3 ones", saying that each time you mention the number? I did that every day with a 100 chart, and DS2 got it once we were around the 30s (so it took about 6-7 weeks of doing this every.single.day with LOTS and LOTS of emphasis on the place value).

That child is rock solid in place value now. We just had to do all that until it clicked. We worked on it while still working in book A.

Also, I'd strongly suggest C-rods for book B. When you get to missing addend, you will be glad if you have them. ;)

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When you do your school day counting, do you emphasize (over and over and over) the place value? ie, "23... 2 tens, 3 ones", saying that each time you mention the number? I did that every day with a 100 chart, and DS2 got it once we were around the 30s (so it took about 6-7 weeks of doing this every.single.day with LOTS and LOTS of emphasis on the place value).

That child is rock solid in place value now. We just had to do all that until it clicked. We worked on it while still working in book A.

Also, I'd strongly suggest C-rods for book B. When you get to missing addend, you will be glad if you have them. ;)

We do have C-rods that I used to work out the worksheets, but since I put the book away and have just been doing this, I haven't had them back out. I have started emphasizing the place value over and over and over and over. Perhaps it just needs to take a bit longer. With a bit of promting/help, he can tell me that 17 is 1 ten and 7 ones. What he can't do is look at it and say "17".

What I can't figure out how to do is count to 50 each day, explain each place value as we say the number, and do a little bit of math and have it take less than 30 min. or so. That's about all the math he can take. Perhaps breaking it up into morning math and afternoon math. Maybe that' will help?

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What he cannot do is look at the written number and tell me what it is correctly with any consistency.

Do you have a place value mat/chart? Basically a plain paper where you draw two columns and label the top of the columns tens and ones.

Than write 11 as 1 in the tens column and 1 in the ones column. After that let him put his counting bears on the chart. Do that for 12-20 as well.

I am thinking your child just had not made the connection between the the written number and the manipulative since he is doing okay orally.

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What I can't figure out how to do is count to 50 each day, explain each place value as we say the number, and do a little bit of math and have it take less than 30 min. or so. That's about all the math he can take. Perhaps breaking it up into morning math and afternoon math. Maybe that' will help?

Well, since you're in book B and are not even halfway through the school year yet (I assume), I'd just set Singapore aside for a bit and work on the place value stuff. You're ahead of the game right now, and even if you didn't finish book B, you could start 1A next year. It reviews everything in book B.

Note that I did NOT explain place value of every number while counting. That would drive me insane. :lol: It was just the "new" number we were adding to our 100 chart that I explained, plus the one before it (because we added a straw to our bundles - "Ok, so yesterday, we had 2 tens, 2 ones, or 22... today we add one and get 2 tens, 3 ones, or 23" Repeat process with coins.). Our 100 chart work took 5 minutes maybe?

In fact, I think 30 minutes may be pushing it for a lot of K'ers. We spend about 15 minutes on math with my K'er (he's doing 1A), and I also do Life of Fred, but that doesn't feel like we're sitting and doing math. ;) My son could not spend 30 minutes on concentrated sit-down math at this age.

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Note that I did NOT explain place value of every number while counting. That would drive me insane. :lol: It was just the "new" number we were adding to our 100 chart that I explained, plus the one before it (because we added a straw to our bundles - "Ok, so yesterday, we had 2 tens, 2 ones, or 22... today we add one and get 2 tens, 3 ones, or 23" Repeat process with coins.). Our 100 chart work took 5 minutes maybe?

Oh, good! I am so glad I misunderstood! Seriously, thinking of explaining EACH AND EVERY number each day...

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Play this game, which I think I found from someone else here. :)

It helped my son tremendously, and he loves to play it with me!

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With a bit of promting/help, he can tell me that 17 is 1 ten and 7 ones. What he can't do is look at it and say "17".

I think the "teens" are just tricky for kids. My son can count into the hundreds, but STILL calls 17 "seventy-one" sometimes, and half the time he writes 71 instead of 17 (because you say the "seven" first and then the "teen/ten" - so he writes it that way). He's like that with all the teens. I just gently correct him and move on. As long as he understands what the number means, I don't make a big deal out of what seems to be simply a developmental issue.

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I agree that the teens can just be more difficult to understand. My oldest is fine with all numbers to 100 except the teens. She will some times reverse the number so 41 instead of 14. She also will say onety four. What? Lol! I Usually laugh and she'll correct herself.

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When we were having trouble with teen numbers vs bigger numbers, eg 15 vs 50 I devised a game involving chocolate. I got our flash cards (1-100) and some tactile numbers (you need 2 of each numeral, any manipulatives with numerals on them are fine, we used some like this: ). Anyway, I would pull out one number from a bucket and read it but not let her see, she would make that number with her tactile numbers, if she got it right she got an m&m. I am telling you, the reward of chocolate was like a miracle she went from apparently not knowing anything (or so she claimed) to mastering every number including the teens in half an hour and it had the added bonus of being an active game (numbers on one side of room, spot for answers on other), gotta love math that also wears them out physically. You can obviously make the game easier or harder by adjusting the numbers used in the bucket, use only those below 20 if needed.

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On a related note, my son writes 13-19 with the ones place first then the tens. For example, he writes seventeen with the 7 first then puts a 1 to the left of the seven, since he first hears the seven in seventeen. When he writes any other two digit number he writes the tens digit first. I am not sure if I should correct him but since he says and writes the teens correctly I guess I will let it go.

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We are in 2a and we are still learning this. My dd has it down, but it is reviewed and taught a little deaper each year.

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If he is just having trouble naming the number, play some "name the number" games. This isn't for understanding place value, just for id'ing and naming.

Game One: Take two large index cards. Punch hole on side of each. Tie a piece of yarn to the hole and then to a clothespin (colorful is nice). Write the teens numbers around the edge of each card--do one card in order, the other card out of order.

To play, each person holds a card. First person puts the clothespin on a number, and says, "I have a (whatever number). Do you have a (number)?" Second person tries to find it on their own card. Alternate who calls the number first, or just have the first person do it for a while then switch. For you guys, you'd have to start the game.

Game 2: Make a giant "teen" die. Use a big box or a stuffed paper bag to make a cube. Paint/decorate, put numbers on it. Roll and name the number. Add an action die or just name an action aloud, and do that activity so many times--Ex. Roll and 11 and shout out "Hop!" and hop 11 times.

Game 3: Take a beach ball and write a number in each section. Toss and catch. Name numbers that hands cover, or work on left and right hand by naming number under that hand.

"Game"4: Each day, write one of the numbers on each hand. All day, ask what the number is. At the end of the day, he may have it!

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