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STEM - Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics.

 

Within the sciences, medicine - BSRN's in our area get $40.00 - 50.00 per hr. plus benefits. Radiologists, O.R. Techs, etc. all work reasonable hours for decent pay.

 

Chemists, chemical engineering, petroleum or geological engineering, aerospace engineering and robotics, civil engineering, alternative energy engineering if you can find a company that has been awarded good-sized grants, etc.

 

Mathematics - the NSA alone is desperate for mathematicians and not only offers the SMART scholarship (up to $25,000.00 per year in college scholarships for each year - up to $100,000 - you are willing to work for them post-graduation). Starting pay and benefits straight out of college is very good for a new grad. NASA needs mathematicians as well.

 

Ten years from now the computer industry will be losing 50% of it's work force to retirement. Due to offshoring, computer departments have practically dried up in many colleges across America and the problem is that DoD and other government contracts cannot use offshort workers due to security risks. IBM and the like will be hurting for workers at that point. Of course, it doesn't stop them at present from firing workers, needed workers, in order to raise the bottom line/stock prices even higher in the short term so CEO's and major stock holders can loot and pillage the company for personal gain. HP just let go 26,000 workers and these were not slackers. It will, at some point, raise stock prices however, 3-5 years from now they'll be losing contracts left and right because their customers have had it....they can't meet deadlines nor can they make good on customer support because there aren't enough workers around to do what they promised in their contracts. So, at that point, there may be computer programming jobs available and since there will be competition, the pay will have to go back to being competitive.

 

Oracle DBA's and JAVA programmers can make VERY comfortable livings if they are willing to live in Asia and Indonesia. We'd be there now if it weren't for Dh's mom.

 

Faith

 

Yep! It's for these reasons that we will never have to worry about DH getting a job. He has total job security.

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Oh, sorry :grouphug: Dh's department is department of defense, national security type stuff, so we don't really worry about that... what kind of programs get cut?

 

When your program gets cut, do you straight up lose your job, or do they "move you around"?

 

My Dad worked for a defense contractor through the 1980s. He thought his job would last forever, but it didn't. First he was moved from NH to VA then CA, then downsized out of his job altogether. After a retraining program, it took him 15 years to find good stable employment. Of course he wasn't working directly for the government...

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My Dad worked for a defense contractor through the 1980s. He thought his job would last forever, but it didn't. First he was moved from NH to VA then CA, then downsized out of his job altogether. After a retraining program, it took him 15 years to find good stable employment. Of course he wasn't working directly for the government...

 

Yeah, contractor work isn't as secure as being a civilian... when they need to let people go, the contractors are some of the first to go.

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The thing is, they also screwed another employee who was just hired at his position less than 6 months ago (he transferred positions within the company). He negotiated a salary where he thought eventually he could make more money than his other position eventually and they capped his salary also without warning. There were also a few people also with years of experience and talent who were regulated to "consultation" people - essentially fired, but we'll call you if something comes up. I think they just don't know what they're doing. There are other things that have made dh wonder what they are thinking. Either way, they can re-hire some cheap fresh college grad who will put them back years just because they don't know what they're doing - dh's job require years of getting to know company contacts. He takes all of that with him.

 

Beth

 

My dh is experiencing all of this right now. I expect him to come home any day unemployed. In his experience, this is because they eventually plan to sell the company or were recently, and or off shore the jobs.

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:iagree: Some of them aren't smart enough to grow the pie, so they must take a chunk of yours.

 

 

That is the absolute truth! Seriously, even if they were smart enough to grow the pie, they wouldn't be patient enough or have a strong enough work ethic to do the job. It's just easier to take half your pie than make their own!

 

Faith

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:iagree: They're trying to force him out.

 

It sure seems that way. Does anyone know if a company has to pay more insurance for families that have ongoing medical issues? We have a couple of children with some real doozies for insurance companies (multiple/severely disabled and a child with a cleft lip/palate). There is no way an insurance company has any hope of coming out ahead with our family. Would a group policy have to pay more for a particular family? I just can't understand any other reason why they would try to get rid of an employee who has only ever done excellent according to any and all reviews other than they don't want to pay his worth anymore.

 

This particular company has been replacing experienced workers with inexperienced and my dh is noticing the difference in the quality of product that would be going out if the experience people who know the market didn't stop it.

 

Beth

Edited by bethben
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I don't see how a company would have any idea when hiring. As a PP said, self insurers would know once you work for them. I am not really concerned though it is part of the reason that dh has stayed in the military for a career. We had two ADHD children, and the last child with other medical costs stemming from various diseases and conditions, and then me, with an ever increasing chronic illness count. Now, of course, it won't be an issue since we have insurance for life, so if they decide not to carry insurance, it won't faze us at all.

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It sure seems that way. Does anyone know if a company has to pay more insurance for families that have ongoing medical issues? We have a couple of children with some real doozies for insurance companies (multiple/severely disabled and a child with a cleft lip/palate). There is no way an insurance company has any hope of coming out ahead with our family. Would a group policy have to pay more for a particular family? I just can't understand any other reason why they would try to get rid of an employee who has only ever done excellent according to any and all reviews other than they don't want to pay his worth anymore.

 

This particular company has been replacing experienced workers with inexperienced and my dh is noticing the difference in the quality of product that would be going out if the experience people who know the market didn't stop it.

 

Beth

 

 

I doubt that it has anything at all to do with that unless your dh takes a lot of time off from work when the children have health issues and this was noticed by management.

 

Companies make these very impersonal decisions at the top with no regard whatsoever for the people it affects. They've decided to temporarily increase their profits by edging out their higher paid employees and bringing in cheaper workers. They are not concerned, at present, with their reputation or the quality of work done. Only the temporary increase in profts. That's it. It could be because some head honcho wants more money himself, it could be because a portion of the company is going to be phased out in order to better position the company to be sold, it could be that somebody has some stock options to exercise and wants the stock price up a few cents more before cashing out, it could be because the ding dongs making the decisions are so far removed from the day to day operations of the company that they honestly do not have a clue about how it will affect the company in the long term....DingDong....all of these are potential winners.

 

I am sorry it is happning to you. If your husband is in a position to get work in a foreign country that has excellent health care options - Singapore comes to mind as well as the capitol of Thailand and Malaysia, you may want to look. There is more of this to come in the States before there will be less of it. Job security is hard to fine. Many developing nations have top-notch medical care facilities with amazing specialists. The country just does not provide that level of care to all of it's citizenry. When we checked into Thailand, we could get better pediatric cardiology care for ds there than we could here and for a fraction of the cost. IF he were to need surgery (which is now very unlikely, WHEW!!!), the survival rates in Bangkok at one particular hospital were better than nearly all of the children's hospitals here and he would have a private duty nurse to boot! Cadillac insurance program for us there with Oracle Co. vs. "turf him to the curb as soon as possible regardless of the consequences" medical insurance here! So, it might be something for you to consider if your husband is in a line of work that will allow you to move.

 

Faith

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You straight up lose your job. In this area, federal gov IT cut all its contractors. Local employers offered about 20% less, hoping to pick up cheap employees. Same people managed to get into fed job vacancies in other depts as they were high enough up to see it coming.

 

But corrections, those type of jobs aren't seeing the cuts at all.

 

That really depends on the contractor. Every contractor dh has worked for has offered to move us when they lost a contract. So far, dh has chosen to stay & work for the new company. However, we love the current company & will move with them when this contract is up, unless they keep it & we stay here.

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Perhaps I am ignorant, but I think there are just too many people and not enough jobs. Only the gov't can create jobs -- the private sector is supply and demand.

 

I know we are small, but still. Self employment has benefits but drawbacks.

 

We cannot afford to pay help a great wage. At the end of the day, my husband is still working long after the help has gone home. He may make a decent wage, but there are no benefits, and if he had to stop working, the company would end.

 

 

I think to some extent, too much burden is put on employers outside of wages. Taxes are absurd, and they (for some ridiculous reason) have to match social security and Medicare on top of benefits.

 

P.S.

I cannot even imagine how much the iPhone has contributed to productivity losses.

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Perhaps I am ignorant, but I think there are just too many people and not enough jobs. Only the gov't can create jobs -- the private sector is supply and demand.

 

I know we are small, but still. Self employment has benefits but drawbacks.

 

We cannot afford to pay help a great wage. At the end of the day, my husband is still working long after the help has gone home. He may make a decent wage, but there are no benefits, and if he had to stop working, the company would end.

 

 

I think to some extent, too much burden is put on employers outside of wages. Taxes are absurd, and they (for some ridiculous reason) have to match social security and Medicare on top of benefits.

 

P.S.

I cannot even imagine how much the iPhone has contributed to productivity losses.

 

I blame a large part of this on modern farming. That is a lot of jobs taken over by super corporations. Small farms are almost extinct.

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Jumping in to ask a question that has been eating away at me. Salaries obviously vary widely with regard to cost of living in each area, so there isn't a clear answer, I'm sure. But what is a good living wage now?

 

I know of a company that has been searching for months - months! - for a new hire, with no luck. I don't know if the salary they are offering is simply too low, or if it's something else. FWIW, starting salary is in the $70s. That is low in this area, but this particular company foots the bill for the entire family's insurance. I think that is a huge deal, and might increase the appeal? It also involves primarily work at home - another bonus in a commute heavy area. So there are perks. As far as a degree, there are no specific requirements, they are just looking for experience in a particular field.

 

What do you all think? Would the above pass muster as a living wage?

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FWIW, starting salary is in the $70s. That is low in this area, but this particular company foots the bill for the entire family's insurance..... It also involves primarily work at home - another bonus in a commute heavy area.

 

It also depends on the state income tax, 401k contribution, medicare, social security, cost of housing and property tax.

 

For example, after tax, 401k and other deductions, hubby takes home 60% of his salary. At $70k, that leaves us with $3.5k per month disposable income. After taking out rent or (mortage + home insurance + property tax), we will still be able to live comfortably without me working.

 

However we would not be able to afford a townhome or single family home.

 

Still I would consider $70k a living wage in my area as it allows a family of 4 to have a safe roof over their heads, food on the table, utilities can be confortably paid and still have surplus for emergency fund.

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Jumping in to ask a question that has been eating away at me. Salaries obviously vary widely with regard to cost of living in each area, so there isn't a clear answer, I'm sure. But what is a good living wage now?

 

I know of a company that has been searching for months - months! - for a new hire, with no luck. I don't know if the salary they are offering is simply too low, or if it's something else. FWIW, starting salary is in the $70s. That is low in this area, but this particular company foots the bill for the entire family's insurance. I think that is a huge deal, and might increase the appeal? It also involves primarily work at home - another bonus in a commute heavy area. So there are perks. As far as a degree, there are no specific requirements, they are just looking for experience in a particular field.

 

What do you all think? Would the above pass muster as a living wage?

 

Where is this job? What does it entail? 70k and over would very much be a living salary where we're located. But it depends on location and how expensive housing is etc.

Beth

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If a salary is too low for the area then it's too low for the area. If that's more than what I make, it would make no sense for me to go there if my money doesn't go as far. Then I'm not really making more. So the salary should be in line with the cost of living in the area (especially referring to jobs that would pay in that range, obviously low/no skill jobs don't pay a living wage).

 

Yes, that's what I was thinking. I just googled the average salaries in this area, and came up with different results - depending on the site. So I am sort of scratching my head on what actually is a decent salary in this area. I think it would depend on where exactly one is located in the greater No. VA area (which is large, and I suppose salaries could vary greatly).

 

It has been quite the learning experience watching this company go through the search/interview process. :)

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It also depends on the state income tax, 401k contribution, medicare, social security, cost of housing and property tax.

 

For example, after tax, 401k and other deductions, hubby takes home 60% of his salary. At $70k, that leaves us with $3.5k per month disposable income. After taking out rent or (mortage + home insurance + property tax), we will still be able to live comfortably without me working.

 

However we would not be able to afford a townhome or single family home.

 

Still I would consider $70k a living wage in my area as it allows a family of 4 to have a safe roof over their heads, food on the table, utilities can be confortably paid and still have surplus for emergency fund.

 

Good points.

 

I think if the job were to be taken by a single person, on the young side... one would think it would definitely be workable. I was wondering exactly what you were addressing though, which was... Could a family live off of this?

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Where is this job? What does it entail? 70k and over would very much be a living salary where we're located. But it depends on location and how expensive housing is etc.

Beth

 

Ah, housing. That's really the trick. The No VA area is on the more expensive side. :glare: I *think* that's why this company has had trouble hiring. Just my thoughts, from hearing stories and looking in from the outside. I don't really know. But it's been a frequent enough topic of conversation among friends that I've been pondering the lack of applicants in my spare time. :tongue_smilie:

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Along those lines I am always wondering where all these jobs are when people say some of us have to stop being so deadbeat and go out and work. Are there even enough jobs for everyone?

 

No. There isn't. Any no matter how much someone wants to work and how much the employer wants to hire, it doesn't mean the job is suited to everyone that needs a job. Ditch digging pays decent. Doesn't mean I can do it.

 

Where is this job? What does it entail? 70k and over would very much be a living salary where we're located. But it depends on location and how expensive housing is etc.

Beth

 

 

Yes! PM me! My dh would jump at 70k. But not somewhere the COL is more than double here.

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Ah, housing. That's really the trick. The No VA area is on the more expensive side. :glare: I *think* that's why this company has had trouble hiring. Just my thoughts, from hearing stories and looking in from the outside. I don't really know. But it's been a frequent enough topic of conversation among friends that I've been pondering the lack of applicants in my spare time. :tongue_smilie:

 

Also the level of the job matters. Going with CS for instance 70k in NOVA would be a good junior developer starting salary. It would be low for a developer and it would be extremely low for a senior developer or lead position.

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Software Engineering. My nephew has just graduated from WSU and immediately started at $72K per year. There were very few American born students in his classes throughout college. I read somewhere that 80% of the software engineers hired here have work Visa's. I think being a native-born American helped him secure his job. He had many offers.

 

K

:iagree:

At our STEM university' date=' the [b']average starting salary[/b] of graduates is 60k. Many have a job lined up even before they graduate, some already as juniors. The comp sci students tell me that every single one of their upperclass friends got hired.

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How is that possible when college tuition has increase dramatically in the last 20 years? I figured they were hiring more teachers, paying better, and offering more benefits. Where is the money going?

 

State allocations for universities have been cut dramatically - even though the money was budgeted. Enrollment has grown.

At our university, state funding has been cut by 44% in the last ten years.

During the same time, enrollment has grown by 54%. 7% more instructors have been hired.

We are supposed to educate a lot more students with a lot less money. The tuition increase goes towards replacing the cut in state funding . Among biggest expenses are the pensions for retirees.

Instructors are not being paid better. If the get salary increases at all, they are below inflation.

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Also the level of the job matters. Going with CS for instance 70k in NOVA would be a good junior developer starting salary. It would be low for a developer and it would be extremely low for a senior developer or lead position.

 

Thanks, it's good to get perspective from someone familiar with No VA. It's a starting position, I think, from what I've heard. They don't need a developer, it's definitely not a CS position.

 

OP, I didn't mean to hijack at all... Just have been pondering the salary issue for some time. I pm'ed you, by the way. :)

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I know of a company that has been searching for months - months! - for a new hire, with no luck. I don't know if the salary they are offering is simply too low, or if it's something else. FWIW, starting salary is in the $70s. That is low in this area, but this particular company foots the bill for the entire family's insurance. I think that is a huge deal, and might increase the appeal? It also involves primarily work at home - another bonus in a commute heavy area. So there are perks. As far as a degree, there are no specific requirements, they are just looking for experience in a particular field.

 

What do you all think? Would the above pass muster as a living wage?

I know dozens of people with college degrees who cannot find a job paying more than $9-10 an hour. I am dead serious. I know immigrants who won the green card lottery and came here, and LEFT, because they can have a higher standard of living in their home countries. Particularly in the South, salaries a pitiful, from what I've heard.

 

That being said, I am sure if you posted it here, tons of members or their spouses or other interested parties would apply! ;)

 

Along those lines I am always wondering where all these jobs are when people say some of us have to stop being so deadbeat and go out and work. Are there even enough jobs for everyone?

 

I think I will smack the next person who says this.

 

Of course, I was flamed on here for exaggerating when I've pointed out how pitiful everyone I know is living. I was told she didn't know anyone living anything like that, blah blaah. A few months later, that member's husband was laid off and many pleas for sympathy were posted. Yeah, I was sympathetic before you even knew it could happen to people like you. It is real. It is real.

 

This junk about employers who cannot find employees is a bunch of baloney.

 

I find virtually all the stories on PBS Newshour by Paul Solman to be exceptionally informative.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/makingsense/

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:iagree:

At our STEM university, the average starting salary of graduates is 60k. Many have a job lined up even before they graduate, some already as juniors. The comp sci students tell me that every single one of their upperclass friends got hired.

 

That's true. I broke into the communications technology field because of a relative who works for the same company gave me a reference to the manager. My degree and background is in public health, but the state and non-profits around here are not hiring. That leaves pharmaceutical sales, a field to which I have a total aversion for several reasons, all of them ethical.

 

However, I had enough "crossover" skills between my environmental health/ engineering position from before, along with having a degree (didn't really matter to them as much what it was in), that they hired me. I make 65K a year right now, working an average of 8 - 10 hours of overtime a week. The company offers some of the best health insurance and other benefits around here. I'm on track to also receive a 4 to 5K bonus early next year, along with a 3 or 4 percent raise.

 

In this economy, that's really good. However, I'm not stupid, and I can see that the whole direction of the country is going towards labor/ workers in the toilet, while fewer and fewer people at the top rake in the rewards. The bottom line is, no profession is safe from this trend. Not computer science, not technology, not engineering. When companies are able to get enough engineers from overseas willing to work for 40K, guess what -- that becomes the new standard of pay for everyone.

 

I'm always signing up for new training and certifications, and looking for a Master's degree program at this time. I'm also planning to get out of the country and going to another one where future economic growth is strongly predicted. The days of working for 30 years for a company, or even an industry, and then retiring are over.

 

OP, if you are interested in the history or reasons why the days of rising wages are over, I highly recommend two economic series: "Capitalism hits the fan" by Professor Wolff, and "The Crash Course" by Chis Martensen. You can find both on YouTube. Wolff comes at the problem from the perspective of Marxism, and Martensen comes from the perspective as a capitalist, who has served as an executive in a large company. Both describe the same underlying problems and reasons for why the U.S. is in a definite decline, and why it is very unlikely we will recover any time soon. I recommend these courses because you need to be looking 10 to 15 years ahead, so you and your family has an idea of what direction you need to go to get into a better place than just economic survival.

 

Economic survival, or just having a job that makes ends meet, is an insufficient goal for these times. It promises zero stability, because everyone is replaceable at just about any job. You need to be looking for a place where the demand for labor outstrips the supply, and that narrows the field considerably, and mostly outside the U.S. I don't care how cheap or low-cost an area is--if all it offers are mediocre income jobs, 30K - 60K, the cost of living will still continue to rise and wages will continue to be stagnant, so that eventually, you'll still be priced out of even the low-cost areas.

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This junk about employers who cannot find employees is a bunch of baloney.

 

 

No it is not.... dh's company can NOT find enough qualified engineers. They do pay well and have excellent benefits. They will move new hires but the new hire must guarantee to stay for two years (or pay back the move). What gets in the way for many is obtaining the required military security clearance. Keep a clean record and good credit, and you can get the basic secret clearance though.

 

And of course, many don't want to move. They want the job to be where they are now.

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I know dozens of people with college degrees who cannot find a job paying more than $9-10 an hour. I am dead serious. I know immigrants who won the green card lottery and came here, and LEFT, because they can have a higher standard of living in their home countries. Particularly in the South, salaries a pitiful, from what I've heard.

 

That being said, I am sure if you posted it here, tons of members or their spouses or other interested parties would apply! ;)

 

 

 

I think I will smack the next person who says this.

 

Of course, I was flamed on here for exaggerating when I've pointed out how pitiful everyone I know is living. I was told she didn't know anyone living anything like that, blah blaah. A few months later, that member's husband was laid off and many pleas for sympathy were posted. Yeah, I was sympathetic before you even knew it could happen to people like you. It is real. It is real.

 

This junk about employers who cannot find employees is a bunch of baloney.

I find virtually all the stories on PBS Newshour by Paul Solman to be exceptionally informative.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/makingsense/

 

This is not the case, it is hard to find qualified people in certain areas. The company my dh is contracting for has had to turn down work because they couldn't get enough good engineers and designers. They have told dh that I should come to work for them and he has told them multiple times that I am staying home with dd.

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And of course, many don't want to move. They want the job to be where they are now.

 

And that is something that is not going to work anymore. Not for jobs that pay well.

Everybody I know who works in jobs that require a high level of education had to move where the job was. The more qualified a person is, the more likely they will have to move.

In my DH's field, there are maybe five job vacancies per year. He did not even get to pick the country.

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In my DH's field, there are maybe five job vacancies per year. He did not even get to pick the country.

 

So we cannot have a highly mobile culture AND have two career families AND promote home ownership, can we? We have been led to believe that owning a home is the American dream and a sign of being middle class, and not only has this been a financial nightmare for millions of Americans of late, but their "underwater mortgage" is trapping them in one small region of the country. It also suggests to me that we do not truly have "family values," since we value family so little. Forcing families to split up in different parts of the country, not giving them time for their personal life, and otherwise promoting the idea that your job should be your life, while providing zero support for the worker, strike me as signs if serious problems.

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What is required to get in to the nuclear field?

 

 

When my DH got his job 5 years ago, there were basically no requirements to take the initial test. My DH doesn't have a college degree. Now, they require a college degree (in anything - I think) and/or nuclear experience in the Navy. They love getting former Navy employees.

 

To get the job, DH had to take a test and pass. Then, interview and after getting a job offer, he had to pass an interview with a psychologist, and an intense background check. Oh, and a credit check. Then, he started class. He had 6 months of training at the plant - paid, with full benefits starting the day of first employment.

 

Each company has different requirements. My DH left his job at a pest control company to go work in the nuclear plant. :)

 

You have to have a mechanical mind and the ability to do math and science. The math and science is mostly in the classroom though, not in the actual day to day work.

 

He does have ongoing training and lots of hoop-jumping, but the pay/benefits make up for that aspect of the job. He makes more than the majority of our friends and most of them have college degrees. We have several who make around the same as us and they also work in plants - chemical and oil. The ones who make more are lawyers and doctors mostly.

 

ETA: A good degree if interested in going into the nuclear industry would be math and/or science. They have trouble finding people who meet all the qualifications. It is shift work, but a chance to progress in the company. Starting pay at my DH's plant is around 28.00 an hour, with raises as you get different qualifications and annual raises as well. Bonuses too, but those aren't guaranteed and at my Dh's level aren't huge. But, we still appreciate them.

Edited by mom23boys
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And that is something that is not going to work anymore. Not for jobs that pay well.

Everybody I know who works in jobs that require a high level of education had to move where the job was. The more qualified a person is, the more likely they will have to move.

In my DH's field, there are maybe five job vacancies per year. He did not even get to pick the country.

 

:iagree:We moved before... and we'll move again. But we'll be able to stay in this country... but there have been options overseas (might try that out one day).

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This junk about employers who cannot find employees is a bunch of baloney.

 

 

Depends on the job. Depends on the location. Many employers cannot find employees with the skills they need and/or willing to work that type of job (I'm thinking specifically of agricultural jobs with the 'willing to work that type.'

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This is not the case, it is hard to find qualified people in certain areas. The company my dh is contracting for has had to turn down work because they couldn't get enough good engineers and designers. They have told dh that I should come to work for them and he has told them multiple times that I am staying home with dd.

 

:iagree:

My hubby's site desperately need people but can't find too many qualified people.

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This is not the case, it is hard to find qualified people in certain areas. The company my dh is contracting for has had to turn down work because they couldn't get enough good engineers and designers. They have told dh that I should come to work for them and he has told them multiple times that I am staying home with dd.

 

Okay, I am not doubting the veracity of your anecdote, but I have read several articles that bust this in general terms.

 

Including this one.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec12/makingsense_09-25.html

My favorite quote: "Somebody told me that they had 29,000 people apply for a reasonably standard engineering position, and nobody made it through the screening process. The software told them nobody was qualified."

 

And this one.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/the-big-jobs-myth-american-workers-arent-ready-for-american-jobs/260169/

In recent months, researchers from the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, the University of California-Berkeley, and the Wharton School have expressed skepticism about the existence of a national skills mismatch.

 

I know people who have applied for job that had a nationwide search, and hundreds of applicants, most of whom were highly qualified, when the same job ten years ago was filled by people with AA degrees. And lo and behold, what do you know? In virtually every case, the person who is ultimately hired is (surprise!) someone who currently works in that very office! So, it's a big sham, in many cases.

 

As I said, I know dozens of people with college degrees, and my husband knows still more, who cannot find anything over $9 an hour. You give me your contact info, I will fill your jobs for you. This includes engineers, PhDs, and MBAs.

Edited by stripe
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So we cannot have a highly mobile culture AND have two career families AND promote home ownership, can we? We have been led to believe that owning a home is the American dream and a sign of being middle class, and not only has this been a financial nightmare for millions of Americans of late, but their "underwater mortgage" is trapping them in one small region of the country. It also suggests to me that we do not truly have "family values," since we value family so little. Forcing families to split up in different parts of the country, not giving them time for their personal life, and otherwise promoting the idea that your job should be your life, while providing zero support for the worker, strike me as signs if serious problems.

 

Ding! Ding! Ding!!! We have a winner!!

 

This is why we have not bought a house, probably won't for a few more decades. At the most, we may buy land someplace and pay it off while living and renting wherever, so we have equity and a place to call our own, if we're lucky enough to retire. No job is secure. A mortgage is an albatross when your job packs up and moves, and you're left with a house that likely take months to sell, if it ever does. The new economic catchphrase is mobility. If you're not mobile, you're much more vulnerable.

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:iagree:

My hubby's site desperately need people but can't find too many qualified people.

 

Right now that's the case. Unfortunately, as I said before, the trend of bringing foreign nationals over to work is increasing in almost every field. A few will remain dependent on domestic help, due to idiosyncratic needs, but most don't need to. And for every work place like your husband's, there are probably ten places that are looking to shed people and replace them with cheaper help.

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No it is not.... dh's company can NOT find enough qualified engineers. They do pay well and have excellent benefits. They will move new hires but the new hire must guarantee to stay for two years (or pay back the move). What gets in the way for many is obtaining the required military security clearance. Keep a clean record and good credit, and you can get the basic secret clearance though.

 

And of course, many don't want to move. They want the job to be where they are now.

 

Yep, And this goes with the post above this one. (Sorry, I can't multi quote)

 

I had a Top Secret clearance in the military. DH has one now, plus he has some extra caveats in addition. It costs the government a LARGE amount of money to clear him, and to update that clearance every few years. This is a large part of his job security. The jobs that require clearances, especially high clearances, CANNOT be outsourced. And there are lots of these jobs, ESPECIALLY here in the DC area, and they pay REALLY well.

 

There are a LOT of people who cannot get clearances b/c they are not American citizens, or have foreign (as in, foreign countries we are not friendly with) relatives, or they have too much debt (makes you a blackmail risk), or they are scumbuckets who cheat on their wives (blackmail risk), or in general, just have very bad reputations (makes you look untrustworthy, which is risky for espionage and blackmail).

 

And yes, to get certain caveats, you are hooked up to a lie detector and asked about your personal life.... questions about your sex life, your marriage, your finances, drug/alcohol use, etc. Agents are sent out to interview people in your past, etc. If you are so considered the slightest bit of a risk, you don't get the clearance and you don't get the job.... in this day and age, it is VERY hard to find trustworthy people. Being a GOOD trustworthy person, with integrity, is a very marketable skill when it comes to certain government jobs.

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Yep, And this goes with the post above this one. (Sorry, I can't multi quote)

 

I had a Top Secret clearance in the military. DH has one now, plus he has some extra caveats in addition. It costs the government a LARGE amount of money to clear him, and to update that clearance every few years. This is a large part of his job security. The jobs that require clearances, especially high clearances, CANNOT be outsourced. And there are lots of these jobs, ESPECIALLY here in the DC area, and they pay REALLY well.

 

There are a LOT of people who cannot get clearances b/c they are not American citizens, or have foreign (as in, foreign countries we are not friendly with) relatives, or they have too much debt (makes you a blackmail risk), or they are scumbuckets who cheat on their wives (blackmail risk), or in general, just have very bad reputations (makes you look untrustworthy, which is risky for espionage and blackmail).

 

And yes, to get certain caveats, you are hooked up to a lie detector and asked about your personal life.... questions about your sex life, your marriage, your finances, drug/alcohol use, etc. Agents are sent out to interview people in your past, etc. If you are so considered the slightest bit of a risk, you don't get the clearance and you don't get the job.... in this day and age, it is VERY hard to find trustworthy people. Being a GOOD trustworthy person, with integrity, is a very marketable skill when it comes to certain government jobs.

 

Yes, but there are not enough of these types of jobs to counteract the overall economic trend. That's the problem. For those educated enough, with the right contacts, and who are American-born, those jobs do indeed offer a decent amount of security, and good pay. I don't know that I'd trade my personal rights to privacy for the guarantee of having one of the few remaining "good jobs," however.

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As I said, I know dozens of people with college degrees, and my husband knows still more, who cannot find anything over $9 an hour. You give me your contact info, I will fill your jobs for you. This includes engineers, PhDs, and MBAs.

 

Hubby's employer is still looking for people with clean room experience in Malta, NY or Fishkill, NY. We opt not to relocate as property tax and utilities would be higher.

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Right now that's the case. Unfortunately, as I said before, the trend of bringing foreign nationals over to work is increasing in almost every field. A few will remain dependent on domestic help, due to idiosyncratic needs, but most don't need to. And for every work place like your husband's, there are probably ten places that are looking to shed people and replace them with cheaper help.

 

For hubby's case, he can't have foreigner in his staff, all military.

Yes, there are a lot outsourcing going on in other part of company, my pervious employee and current. no doubt., but the outsourcing is no longer because it is cheap but because they can't find people here. My company move a lot job to India. Earlier on was because it is cheap. But over the years they found.1, the are not stable work force, a lot turn over. 2. They can't think. A lot hand holding. 3.nowadays it is not even that cheap anymore. I remember it was 1 to 5 10 yrs ago. But the ratio is pretty close to 1 to 1 now. Adding the traveling and building , administration...etc. so they now actually saying it is because they can't find the people here to do the Job.

i am talking specific engineering, with most master, phd degree. can't speak for other type work force.

I personally don't know any engineer out of job. They might get laid off, but all found something within 6 months

Edited by jennynd
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This is not the case, it is hard to find qualified people in certain areas. The company my dh is contracting for has had to turn down work because they couldn't get enough good engineers and designers. They have told dh that I should come to work for them and he has told them multiple times that I am staying home with dd.

 

:iagree:

 

We STILL have people calling/e-mailing DH with jobs for a Chinese linguist and we have to turn them down. When they find out his wife used to be a military Chinese linguist, they ask if *I* want the job. I'm a sure thing b/c I was in the military, received the proper training, and most importantly, they KNOW I am clearable. We just tell them no thank you, I'm busy being a mom, but if that changes, we'll let them know. We do offer to let all of our linguist friends know, but they are either still in the military, or already have government jobs.

 

As long as I keep up my Chinese (which I have to admit, I'm not working at it, at all) I can re-enter the work force with a starting salary of AT LEAST $80K. (I AM teaching it to DS, and have him in Chinese class, so I do a *little* upkeep, but I REALLY need to break open my DLI books!!)

 

That's why we are always telling "kids" to either join the military or explore areas/fields that need people trained in certain skill sets that not everyone has, or can go to school for. I'm sorry, but if you go to college to get a skill set that every one and their brother has, or can be outsourced, then you will have a hard time finding a job, much less a job that pays a good salary and offers great benefits.

 

Yet, every time we meet/talk to a young person going off to college and ask/hear what they are majoring in, we hear: Business, Law, Accounting, Music... or my FAVORITE, "I'm not sure yet, I'm going to decide during Freshman year". :001_huh:

 

I'm all for doing what makes you happy, but doing what makes you happy won't always pay the bills, or offer good jobs, or have jobs available where you want to live and paying what you want to make... kids should be taught these things when they are planning for their future. JMHO.

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Hubby's employer is still looking for people with clean room experience in Malta, NY or Fishkill, NY. We opt not to relocate as property tax and utilities would be higher.

 

Yes, I live closed to Malta. I know which company u are talking about. they got a lot money to burn. They got the government money and guess what they do when they can't find people, they brought whole bunch from Singapore and Korea.

Edited by jennynd
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So we cannot have a highly mobile culture AND have two career families AND promote home ownership, can we? We have been led to believe that owning a home is the American dream and a sign of being middle class, and not only has this been a financial nightmare for millions of Americans of late, but their "underwater mortgage" is trapping them in one small region of the country. It also suggests to me that we do not truly have "family values," since we value family so little. Forcing families to split up in different parts of the country, not giving them time for their personal life, and otherwise promoting the idea that your job should be your life, while providing zero support for the worker, strike me as signs if serious problems.

 

:iagree::glare::iagree:

 

And so many companies are jerks. My dh has seen so many people relocate on,y to be laid off within 6 months of relocating!! And the company knew good and well that's likely what would happen. They just didn't care about the employee at all. It's very common. Common enough that I don't know anyone that will move their family anymore. The one who got the job, transfers and if they feel it's going to work out, they send for the family 6 months to a year later. Presuming their marriage can handle that and they still have a family to move by then. Two have not. :(

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