Cheerleading and modesty?

[delaney]

I am in no way conservative in my views and my girls do competitive dance. HOWEVER I would never let them do cheer. In my eyes I feel it is less about sport and more about flashing sexuality at the crowd. You can cheer just fine fully clothed. I mean the moves the crowd(young boys) find most inviting are the ones where they go up and so does the skirt. I really think it objectifies young girls and I hate going to football games where I have to look around the cheerleaders to see the dang game anyway!:tongue_smilie:

Competitive cheer seems to be in a different league and is way more athletic like dance. That is a sport meant to showcase the athletic side. So for me cheer as a sport to compete ok, but to distract the crowd and flash their butts for fun? no

[TravelingChris]

I have a totally different attitude about those moves on kids that young than I do on college cheerleaders or even High school. I don't often agree with Bill but I do on this one. It doesn't have anything to do with modesty because you can do inappropriate moves for that age and be completely covered up.

Now in terms of gymnastics and the outfits- no, they are fine. They are not immodest as swim suits aren't either for the kids on swim team (I am talking about those swim suits, not about what could be totally immodest other swim suits).

[shanvan]

I coached competitive all-star cheerleading for 10 years. If you want to compete and if you want any chance of winning then you have to be willing to do what everyone else is doing and then top it.

 

That means shorter skirts, bare midriffs, some uniforms are even going "one-shouldered", etc.

 

Competitive means not just the athletic ability but the "attitude"... the glittery make-up, the pouty faces, winking, blowing kisses at the crowd, flirty faces with the judges... it is all not only happening but expected at this level.

 

Suggestive dance moves are the norm, not the exception. Watch a high school cheer competition on ESPN and you will see what I mean.

 

Now, does this mean ALL teams do this? No. But let's face it. They want to emulate the winners, the champions. So it creeps in to even the most local, small-town cheer team. It's the same reason they want to dress like pop stars .

 

Between all of the above...plus having to tell a young teen girl she had to lose weight... plus countless severe injuries (as the stunts and tumbling gets more and more risky in order to stay competitive)... I got out. And it is NOT something I will let my daughter do either.

.

 

:iagree: This is what I was trying to say in my earlier post. I stopped cheering at the end of my junior year. Since I was small I was expected to be on the top of every crazy pyramid they devised. I have a permanent injury to my right arm b/c I fell and no one ever checked if any damage had been done. The damage isn't life altering, but I cannot completely straighten my arm and if I move in just the right (read wrong) way I catch a nerve and have pain with movement until the irritation dies down.

 

Anyway, I got out too b/c of all of the above.

[KungFuPanda]

If you're taking a stand and pulling your girls, you might want to rethink the entire package. Are the moves this squad doing not OK for your girls to do, but fine for your boy to see? It's about exposure. Do you want your family in this situation at all? Will your girls now be watching and not participating? Id be careful not to set it up so that ALL of the children are exposed to this objectional situation, but only the girls loose their activity over it.

[mommaduck]

I coached competitive all-star cheerleading for 10 years. If you want to compete and if you want any chance of winning then you have to be willing to do what everyone else is doing and then top it.

 

That means shorter skirts, bare midriffs, some uniforms are even going "one-shouldered", etc.

 

Competitive means not just the athletic ability but the "attitude"... the glittery make-up, the pouty faces, winking, blowing kisses at the crowd, flirty faces with the judges... it is all not only happening but expected at this level.

 

Suggestive dance moves are the norm, not the exception. Watch a high school cheer competition on ESPN and you will see what I mean.

 

Now, does this mean ALL teams do this? No. But let's face it. They want to emulate the winners, the champions. So it creeps in to even the most local, small-town cheer team. It's the same reason they want to dress like pop stars .

 

Between all of the above...plus having to tell a young teen girl she had to lose weight... plus countless severe injuries (as the stunts and tumbling gets more and more risky in order to stay competitive)... I got out. And it is NOT something I will let my daughter do either.

 

 

.

:iagree: If they are wanting to compete or imitate competitive cheer teams, then this is what they face. The coaches as a whole have to strive to not fall into these groups if they are going to avoid what you are wanting to avoid. The assistant coach's comments make absolutely no sense when there is a difference between a leo that is made to make gymnastic performances possible vs intentional sexual dance moves, regardless the type of dress.

[In the Rain]

If you're taking a stand and pulling your girls, you might want to rethink the entire package. Are the moves this squad doing not OK for your girls to do, but fine for your boy to see? It's about exposure. Do you want your family in this situation at all? Will your girls now be watching and not participating? Id be careful not to set it up so that ALL of the children are exposed to this objectional situation, but only the girls loose their activity over it.

 

:iagree:

[lea_lpz]

I was a cheerleader for popwarner and highschool and I think typically this is the nature of cheerleading. I remember even in jr. high / middle school, looking back, the dances being suggestive. It would be difficult to find a cheer team that was not this way, but of course squads vary with coaches so they must be out there. It's just the nature of the sport I am refering too. I think that you found a team where the coach was making a point of not sexualizing the girls and respecting modesty was in itself rare and awesome, because there are a lot of other great things about cheerleading. Unfortunately, the coach might not be aware of the assistant coach's methods, and this new assistant might not even realize that this is not in line with the vison for the cheer team because immodesty is the norm.

 

If they can't do cheer, perhaps they can take gymnastic or dance classes at a studio? I know that can be expensive so I don't know if that'd be in your budget, but it could be a more positive outlet for the girls to dance and do acrobatics without having to shake what their mama gave them for the football team.

[TN Mama]

I'd talk to the head coach, and try not to be too emotional about it. "It seems like the assistant coach is taking the routines in a different direction than what I expected based on our conversation earlier. If so, I won't be able to let my girls continue, since it's not what I expected/agreed on."

 

Wendi

 

:iagree: I have a daughter who is cheerleading for a hs group. The uniforms are modest (and still cute!) and there is NO booty shaking. My girls were showing me a cheer that a neighbor (8 yo) learned in her cheer squad and I was so sad to see how completly inappropriate it was.

I don't consider myself to be a prude, but honestly, if we weren't able to cheer with the group we're with, we wouldn't be cheering at all.

[Stayseeliz]

"Have access to a lot of kids."

Really? In a large crowd with their parents present?

 

A lot of parents don't watch their kids closely. They are focused on the game and the kid are running around behind the concession stand. I've seen more than one kid wondering around looking for their parents.

[chiguirre]

If you're taking a stand and pulling your girls, you might want to rethink the entire package. Are the moves this squad doing not OK for your girls to do, but fine for your boy to see? It's about exposure. Do you want your family in this situation at all? Will your girls now be watching and not participating? Id be careful not to set it up so that ALL of the children are exposed to this objectional situation, but only the girls loose their activity over it.

 

:iagree: If you're going to pull your girls from cheer, I'd also pull your son from football. If I were in your dds' place, I'd be mortified to have to go to practice and games and not be allowed to cheer anymore. Cheerleading goes hand in hand with football, if you object to your dds cheering, you should also object to your son seeing the other girls cheer.

 

Perhaps soccer or basketball would work better for your family, then all the kids could do the same thing without these issues.

[Stayseeliz]

After sleeping on it I'm pulling the girls for sure. I agree that they can't change everything to suit me. I just wanted to let them know my concerns and see what they thought. They didn't see anything wrong with it and didn't plan on changing anything in the future. So we are done. I'm a little hacked that I paid $55 per girl for them to cheer and we aren't getting our money's worth. I think I am going to call the director and tell him that I feel mislead. But we won't be doing cheer again. I would have never ever signed them up if I knew it was going to be like this. And the first few weeks were fine. It's just gotten bad recently.

 

DD8 was excited about it because my sister's youngest does competitive cheer with a studio where they live and it's very physical and very modest. She went to a practice with her this summer and loved it but this cheering is nothing like that one.

 

As for my son being exposed to it they don't have enough cheerleaders to cheer for every game so they only pick one game a night to cheer for a team. I looked at the schedule and the cheerleaders will only cheer for his team two more times. He honestly spends the entire game on the field and doesn't even get a break so I don't think he'll see too much. The girls don't practice at the same place the boys do so he won't be exposed there. And we've had loooooong discussions over the last couple of days about quitting. I really wanted to pull them but I wanted my 8yo to make the decision. She is a professing Christian so I wanted her to make the decision based on her convictions and she said last night that she felt like she should quit. The girls on the squad aren't really buddies of theirs so they won't run in to them other places so I don't think they'll get any flak for quitting.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Stayseeliz

[Susan in TN]

After sleeping on it I'm pulling the girls for sure. I agree that they can't change everything to suit me. I just wanted to let them know my concerns and see what they thought. They didn't see anything wrong with it and didn't plan on changing anything in the future. So we are done. I'm a little hacked that I paid $55 per girl for them to cheer and we aren't getting our money's worth. I think I am going to call the director and tell him that I feel mislead. But we won't be doing cheer again. I would have never ever signed them up if I knew it was going to be like this. And the first few weeks were fine. It's just gotten bad recently.

 

DD8 was excited about it because my sister's youngest does competitive cheer with a studio where they live and it's very physical and very modest. She went to a practice with her this summer and loved it but this cheering is nothing like that one.

 

As for my son being exposed to it they don't have enough cheerleaders to cheer for every game so they only pick one game a night to cheer for a team. I looked at the schedule and the cheerleaders will only cheer for his team two more times. He honestly spends the entire game on the field and doesn't even get a break so I don't think he'll see too much. The girls don't practice at the same place the boys do so he won't be exposed there. And we've had loooooong discussions over the last couple of days about quitting. I really wanted to pull them but I wanted my 8yo to make the decision. She is a professing Christian so I wanted her to make the decision based on her convictions and she said last night that she felt like she should quit. The girls on the squad aren't really buddies of theirs so they won't run in to them other places so I don't think they'll get any flak for quitting.

 

I know it's hard - when we first signed dd up for "ballet" classes when she was 5, the director assured me that everything was kept very modest and age appropriate. Right. In the class they spent 10 minutes doing what I would consider ballet-type work, 15 minutes doing tumbling, and 10 minutes learning to do a "girly walk" to the center of the room, pose, and then "girly walk" back. All of this to obnoxious pop/rap music. It was clear that she was preparing these girls for "competitive dance" which from what I've seen, is not something my girls can participate in.

 

I agree with others - as innocent as it may start out, if they continue, it will only get worse.

[Dmmetler]

My suggestion-if you want to pick ANY program (whether cheer or dance), don't look at what the youngest girls do/wear. Look at what the oldest ones do.YCOA is a recreational/competitive system designed to be a positive athletic outlet for kids (they also offer other programs in some areas, although in mine, it's just cheer). She can stay through age 18, and the uniforms don't get more revealing, nor do the dance moves get more risque-although the tumbling and stunting get harder.

 

I've dealt with a lot of "How DARE you let your daughter cheer!! Don't you know it's going to ruin her??" type comments such as I've heard on this thread, and it gets really frustrating, especially when my 7 yr old, who loves her cheer team and coach, hears them and is convinced she's doing something wrong because she loves cheer. These are folks who'd never think of actually going to the competition to see what the girls are doing-they just assume that cheerleading=acting sexy.

 

For my DD, it has been one of the best things for her-she has a coach who has a child with aspergers, and who understands DD's sensory and motor skills struggles, yet that she wants to be out there, and adapts accordingly. There are kids with special needs on almost every team, and the coaches simply adapt as needed and it's understood that they have the same right to be there as any of the other girls.Compared to gymnastics, where recreational kids above about age 6 are basically an afterthought, it's nice to have a place where DD is accepted even though, honestly, she's not very good.

 

The OP had a bad experience-but to say that "That's what you get when you cheer" is incorrect in my community. It may be true to say that this is what you get in teams that are striving for NCA competitive cheer, whether it's all-star or school,but there are a lot of cheer systems out there, and while NCA gets the coverage on ESPN, they're not the only option in many areas.

[Whereneverever]

Never mind!

Edited September 29, 2012 by theretohere

[Spy Car]

:iagree: If you're going to pull your girls from cheer, I'd also pull your son from football. If I were in your dds' place, I'd be mortified to have to go to practice and games and not be allowed to cheer anymore. Cheerleading goes hand in hand with football, if you object to your dds cheering, you should also object to your son seeing the other girls cheer.

 

Perhaps soccer or basketball would work better for your family, then all the kids could do the same thing without these issues.

 

I played football for 10 years, trust me football players do not see the cheerleaders. One is either on the field and highly engaged in the game, or on the sideline with ones back to the cheerleaders and stands.

 

Bill

[Heather in Neverland]

I played football for 10 years, trust me football players do not see the cheerleaders. One is either on the field and highly engaged in the game, or on the sideline with ones back to the cheerleaders and stands.

 

Bill

 

Exactly. The cheerleaders are there for the crowd... Who often ignore them, too.

[Spy Car]

Exactly. The cheerleaders are there for the crowd... Who often ignore them, too.

 

I will say that is fun for players to hear the chants of the cheerleaders and the crowd. It adds excitement to the game. Football is a game where momentum and enthusiasm factor heavily in how a team performs and the cheers and the band are big additions to the experience. We just can't see the cheerleaders...until after the game—when we are hopefully dating them :D

 

Bill

Edited September 27, 2012 by Spy Car

[shanvan]

My suggestion-if you want to pick ANY program (whether cheer or dance), don't look at what the youngest girls do/wear. Look at what the oldest ones do.YCOA is a recreational/competitive system designed to be a positive athletic outlet for kids (they also offer other programs in some areas, although in mine, it's just cheer). She can stay through age 18, and the uniforms don't get more revealing, nor do the dance moves get more risque-although the tumbling and stunting get harder.

 

I've dealt with a lot of "How DARE you let your daughter cheer!! Don't you know it's going to ruin her??" type comments such as I've heard on this thread, and it gets really frustrating, especially when my 7 yr old, who loves her cheer team and coach, hears them and is convinced she's doing something wrong because she loves cheer. These are folks who'd never think of actually going to the competition to see what the girls are doing-they just assume that cheerleading=acting sexy.

 

For my DD, it has been one of the best things for her-she has a coach who has a child with aspergers, and who understands DD's sensory and motor skills struggles, yet that she wants to be out there, and adapts accordingly. There are kids with special needs on almost every team, and the coaches simply adapt as needed and it's understood that they have the same right to be there as any of the other girls.Compared to gymnastics, where recreational kids above about age 6 are basically an afterthought, it's nice to have a place where DD is accepted even though, honestly, she's not very good.

 

The OP had a bad experience-but to say that "That's what you get when you cheer" is incorrect in my community. It may be true to say that this is what you get in teams that are striving for NCA competitive cheer, whether it's all-star or school,but there are a lot of cheer systems out there, and while NCA gets the coverage on ESPN, they're not the only option in many areas.

 

It's good to know that there are other options for cheering. I still think the majority of cheer squads are going to imitate the mainstream. I didn't really see the posts in this thread saying you will ruin your Dds if you allow them to cheer. If a squad like you describe is available locally then it sounds like a wonderful opportunity. I do think what you describe is going to be hard for most parents to find and not the norm, which is what I think most of us were trying to say.

 

There is a reason most people equate cheering=sexy. It's the most common type of cheering they see and the most publicized. Very good advice to look at the older girls in any activity to see where it is leading. It is too bad there aren't more cheer squads like you describe. It's a hard stereotype for most people to look beyond. I think, when you are trying to be modest and conservative, it isn't just cheering that has to be examined carefully. Parents are going to have to carefully evaluate most any activity they are considering for their Dc.

[DianeW88]

I will say that is fun for players to hear the chants of the cheerleaders and the crowd. It adds excitement to the game. Football is a game where momentum and enthusiasm factor heavily in how a team performs and the cheers and the band are big additions to the experience. We just can't see the cheerleaders...until after the game—when we are hopefully dating them :D

 

Bill

 

I dated a couple a football players in college (not at the same time :lol:), and was a cheerleader as well. And I'll vouch for the fact that they never see you during the game. My boyfriend even asked me once if I was on the field (I'd hurt my knee earlier in the week and didn't know if I'd be able to perform) during one game. I was there...he had no idea. So don't worry about the boys...the football players pay no attention to the girls on the sidelines. :D

[Spy Car]

So don't worry about the boys...the football players pay no attention to the girls on the sidelines...

 

...durning the game :D

 

Come to think of it, Mrs Spy Car was a cheerleader.

 

Rah-rah, sis boom bah!

 

Bill

[DianeW88]

...durning the game :D

 

Come to think of it, Mrs Spy Car was a cheerleader.

 

Rah-rah, sis boom bah!

 

Bill

 

Anxiously waiting to see a video of your straddle jump! :D :D :D

[Spy Car]

Anxiously waiting to see a video of your straddle jump! :D :D :D

 

I was wondering why my son is able to do "the splits." :D

 

Ready, down. Ready, set. Hut 1. Hut 2. Hike!

 

Bill

[ChocolateReignRemix]

A lot of parents don't watch their kids closely. They are focused on the game and the kid are running around behind the concession stand. I've seen more than one kid wondering around looking for their parents.

 

Wondering around in a crowd full of people in a public place. There is a difference between caution and paranoia.

[Stayseeliz]

Wondering around in a crowd full of people in a public place. There is a difference between caution and paranoia.

 

Yeah sorry the way things are laid out there it'd be easy for something bad to happen. I consider myself cautious but not paranoid. But I'm okay if someone wants to think otherwise.

[Abigail4476]

:iagree: If you're going to pull your girls from cheer, I'd also pull your son from football. If I were in your dds' place, I'd be mortified to have to go to practice and games and not be allowed to cheer anymore. Cheerleading goes hand in hand with football, if you object to your dds cheering, you should also object to your son seeing the other girls cheer.

 

Perhaps soccer or basketball would work better for your family, then all the kids could do the same thing without these issues.

 

I don't get this POV at all! There's a difference between learning to be personally modest (thereby not being able to participate in an activity considered immodest) and being in the vicinity of people who are being immodest. I don't control what other people do; I only control what I do. Modesty doesn't mean that I can't be in the presence of immodest people. Theoretically, if MY heart is right, I should be able to be in the same room as naked people and keep my thoughts pure. Isn't that what modesty is about? Outward appearance is only a small part--it's really a heart issue. Ergo, there's no reason the son can't play football even if the cheerleaders are booty-dancing on the sidelines. If it doesn't jive with the family's values, he can learn to look away. It's rude to gawk and stare, anyway, even if you think cheerleading is perfectly fine.

 

If modesty meant only being around other modest people, you couldn't anywhere but church, and often not even there. For Pete's sake, then you have to deal with the gazillion-and-one interpretations of what comprises modesty and pretty soon no one can be around anyone except their own family.

 

Why would the daughters be mortified and not enjoy attending a football game anymore? :001_huh: I'm sure they can be involved in another activity that's just as much fun (if not more so--my dd15 hated cheerleading and loved basketball, ice skating and ballet).

 

I think gymnastics or ballet would be great alternative activities.

[Abigail4476]

Exactly. The cheerleaders are there for the crowd... Who often ignore them, too.

 

Yes, and in grade school they spend a lot of time on the sidelines fiddling with their ponytails and looking exceedingly bored. It's all about the halftime production! :D

[Marylou]

Hmmm I guess the guys aren't "creepy" in that I know something to be wrong with them but there are a lot of guys that look iffy. I watch my kids like a hawk at the games because anyone could pay $2 and get in and have access to lots of kids. It makes me nervous.

 

What exactly does "iffy" look like :confused: