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Churched folks, can you inform me?


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I have been looking into the church where my son attends with his dad every other weekend, and while I don't see a lot of specific information on their website and facebook, what I do see isn't all that clear to me.

 

If I post links, as well as their answers to my questions would you all care to tell me what you think, where there traditions might come from and how it would differ from the mainline Presbyterian, and Catholic churches I am most familiar with??

 

 

Hi there!

My son has been attending your church with his father and I just wanted to ask you for some more information about your theological ideals, and see if you are affiliated with a particular denomination or larger group?

 

Thanks so much

Jennifer

 

Jennifer,

 

I will post our Mission, Strategy, and Beliefs. We are an independent church. Although we are not affiliated with any major denomination, we interact with all who trust in Jesus Christ for salvation! We are part of the Collinsville Ministerial Alliance. Here are our statements of faith:

 

 

Our Mission

... Helping Other People Enter

 

Our Strategy

... to create environments where it is not difficult to enter into in, people can deepen their faith in Jesus Christ, and relationships are developed with other believers, and grow in spiritual maturity.

 

What We Believe

About the Scriptures We believe the entire Bible is the inspired Word of God and that men were moved by the Spirit of God to write the very words of Scripture. Therefore, we believe the Bible is without error.

 

About God We believe in one God who exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We believe that Jesus Christ is the second member of the Trinity (the Son of God) who became flesh to reveal God to humanity and to become the Savior of the lost world.

 

About Humanity We believe that all people were created in the image of God to have fellowship with him but became alienated in that relationship through sinful disobedience. As a result, people are incapable of regaining a right relationship with God through their own efforts.

 

About Salvation We believe that the blood of Jesus Christ, shed on the cross, provides the sole basis for the forgiveness of sin. Therefore, God freely offers salvation to those who place their faith in the death and resurrection of Christ as sufficient payment for their sin.

 

About the Christian Life We believe all Christians should live for Christ and not for themselves. By obedience to the Word of God and daily yielding to the Spirit of God, every believer should mature and be conformed to the image of Christ.

 

About the Church We believe that the church is the body of Christ, of which Jesus Christ is the head. The members of the church are those who have trusted by faith the finished work of Christ. The purpose of the church is to glorify God by loving him and by making him known to the lost world.

 

Hope this helps!

 

http://word.office.live.com/wv/WordView.aspx?FBsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fattachments%2Fdoc_preview.php%3Fmid%3Did.340728692685806%26id%3Ddf0fde8de1479205e4a427e46594c826%26metadata&access_token=677969201%3AAQDLOJZuZ7MpDhCs&title=Childrens+ministry

 

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Current-Church/273616836006026

 

http://www.currentchurch.us/

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Their statement of faith sounds like a mainline evangelical church. Nothing strange or fringe. I've belonged to two different Presbyterian churches. The statement of faith would have fit one of them but not the other. The one it didn't fit did not believe that the Bible is without error. It would have agreed on all the other points.

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I am not exactly clear on what the bible being without error means.

 

Honestly, I am not trying to be rude or obtuse, I promise!

 

 

This doesn't seem to be what I would call fundamentalist, or patriarchal, I am pretty sure they aren't teaching to follow ALL things written in a literal fashion.

 

Does this mean both old and new testament?

 

Does it mean that all parts then apply equally, even now, with totally different world opinions on many matters, especially the ones that are for the better?

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I am not exactly clear on what the bible being without error means.

 

Honestly, I am not trying to be rude or obtuse, I promise!

 

 

This doesn't seem to be what I would call fundamentalist, or patriarchal, I am pretty sure they aren't teaching to follow ALL things written in a literal fashion.

 

Does this mean both old and new testament?

 

Does it mean that all parts then apply equally, even now, with totally different world opinions on many matters, especially the ones that are for the better?

 

It means that the Bible does not have contradictions or mistakes in it. It means that they do recognize figures of speech (the sun rising in the east, etc.), poetry and other literary devices and do not apply those literally. Yes, it means both the old and new testament, though there are many things in the old testament that no longer apply to Christians today. That is because the people in the old testament were under a different system - assigned to the people of one country/people group and the rules etc. were there to set them apart from other nations and to teach certain things that were fulfilled later on when Jesus Christ came and died on the cross. Those rules do not apply to people today and saying the Bible is without error does not mean not realizing that.

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It means that the Bible does not have contradictions or mistakes in it. It means that they do recognize figures of speech (the sun rising in the east, etc.), poetry and other literary devices and do not apply those literally. Yes, it means both the old and new testament, though there are many things in the old testament that no longer apply to Christians today. That is because the people in the old testament were under a different system - assigned to the people of one country/people group and the rules etc. were there to set them apart from other nations and to teach certain things that were fulfilled later on when Jesus Christ came and died on the cross. Those rules do not apply to people today and saying the Bible is without error does not mean not realizing that.

 

Thank you!

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I don't think it differs that much from Presbyterian, although its church structure may be different.

 

It is significantly different from Catholic, as it does not seem to address the Eucharist, nor does it recognize the teaching authority of the Catholic Church and all that entails, including the equal importance of Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture.

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I have not listened, I thought I would this afternoon.

 

I would have preferred to see something such as the Nicene Creed, The Apostles Creed, or something....I'm not sure.

 

 

I think where I get tripped up is with how, and who decides what is literary device, poetic, or to be taken historically or as fact.

 

Within a church with a longer history, standard educational requirements for their leadership, and/or larger governing body this seems like it would be simpler to solve, in a small independent church I do wonder. :confused:

 

Hmm, many of the links I attempted to visit yesterday were non operational, except for the give online button! This seems to have been fixed, which does make me feel quite a bit better.

Edited by jeninok
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The doctrine you posted is sound and biblical. That is the same thing that all solid churches believe.

 

The church evidently (based on reading a little bit of the facebook page and church website) believes that certain spiritual gifts (which were practiced in biblical times) are also for today, and they encourage their congregation to practice them. This is rather common among various non-denominational churches, as well as throughout Christian churches in many other parts of the world. Some churches reject this idea, saying that certain spiritual gifts (namely things like speaking in tongues and prophecy) "faded out" at some point (though the Bible never explicitly says that) and are no longer present. This is a big grey area and much debated among Christian churches.

 

Regarding spiritual gifts, I see it is a sideline issue not worthy of arguing about. The main things are the points listed in the doctrine which you quoted above, and those are sound.

 

The brochure for kids sounds great. I suppose I would check to make sure there are good and safe practices for taking care of children. These are things like policies the church has such as not allowing any adult to be alone with a child, making sure there are secure check-in and check-out procedures, etc.

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I did a little googling and there is another older pastor by the same name as the pastor of this church (James Carney) who seems to be a big wig in the Pentacostal church organization. His bio mentions two sons who have also gone into ministry but I cannot find any difinitive connection between the Jim Carney of this church and the elder, Pentacostal Jim Carney. This church's former name also seems to possibly be "Miracles of Faith", which is a very apostolic sounding name, but again not difinitive. (When I googled "Jim Carney pastor Oklahoma", some sites came up listing him as the pastor of "Miracle of Faith church" and when I clicked on the MOF link, it went to the Current Churh website listed in the OP). When I want the true low-down on a church, I tend to try to find out the background of the staff - what denomination they grew up in, where they received their training, seminary attended, etc. I didn't have time to dig further and the possible connections I mentioned may not pan out, but I mentioned them because it would give you something else to look into if you wanted to continue the search.

 

The statement of faith does sound fairly mainline evangelical but the website has a *very* contemporary tone. The church website itself doesn't give a lot of clues, but I second the poster who said to listen to some of the sermons. What is actually being taught from the pulpit will probably give you a better idea of how you feel about it.

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It looks to me to be a modern mainline evangelical church. Like others have said, the SOF doesn't raise any red flags for me. Personally, I care more about what the parish believes than how they line up with a denomination, but that's where I am in my faith. I want Christian. I would be comfortable trying the church out from what I read on the website. I haven't listened to a sermon though.

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I listened to some sermons, it is certainly not my cup of tea. I got the farthest listening to Fight Club 2.

 

 

But I felt like he was yelling at me the entire time, despite me pretty much agreeing with what the message was, I was really uncomfortable during the entire thing. I wanted to yell back Calm down!! I can't hear you over all the yelling!!!

 

Mostly, though, I kept waiting for some sort of biblical explanation, more scholarly insight, less preaching, and more teaching.

 

I prefer things to be much quieter and cerebral during a service, I want to be pushed on an intellectual level so that I can reconcile it on a more spiritual level.

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But isn't this your ex that you are talking about? Unless you have sole custody, he is allowed to take his son to a church he desires just as you are allowed to take him to the one you desire.

 

I do have sole custody, he has visitation rights. But I am not sure I even have an issue with this church. It is one that I am pretty clear that it wouldn't be my first choice, for many reasons, but truly understand that I am coming at this from a point of wanting to understand how to understand, and how to help reconcile the differences within our own home.

 

This is a sermon from the Church we attend, that is talking about much the same issue, how no matter where we come from, all our welcome into the love of Jesus. I think it would likely illustrate what I mean by differences in delivery.

 

ETA....I realize this is not the same exact message, but it is focused on how all of humanity is part of Jesus love, how by his very nature even the most broken, downtrodden, and marginalized are brought into light through the love of this amazing being called Jesus.

Edited by jeninok
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It looks to me to be a modern mainline evangelical church. Like others have said, the SOF doesn't raise any red flags for me. Personally, I care more about what the parish believes than how they line up with a denomination, but that's where I am in my faith. I want Christian. I would be comfortable trying the church out from what I read on the website. I haven't listened to a sermon though.

:iagree:

I listened to some sermons, it is certainly not my cup of tea. I got the farthest listening to Fight Club 2.

 

 

But I felt like he was yelling at me the entire time, despite me pretty much agreeing with what the message was, I was really uncomfortable during the entire thing. I wanted to yell back Calm down!! I can't hear you over all the yelling!!!

 

Mostly, though, I kept waiting for some sort of biblical explanation, more scholarly insight, less preaching, and more teaching.

 

I prefer things to be much quieter and cerebral during a service, I want to be pushed on an intellectual level so that I can reconcile it on a more spiritual level.

 

That's the norm for many evangelicals (which is what it seems to be).

I haven't listened to a sermon or anything, but honestly if your only problem is with his delivery or with maybe feeling like he doesn't preach to your liking, I think it's not a big deal. I mean, we're not talking about you actually going there, right? So whether or not you like his delivery is sort of a moot point. I don't mean to sound harsh -- I guess I'm just thinking that if the church is preaching sound doctrine, I don't care how they are doing it. And I don't think that not liking the delivery personally makes anything wrong with it - it just isn't your cuppa. And that's ok.

It's probably more what I'm used to. I don't even know what any of those creeds (listed earlier in the thread) are. :D We do have an interim pastor at our church who teaches, and I love it. But we're not a 'quiet' sort of fellowship of people. :lol:

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I listened to some sermons, it is certainly not my cup of tea. I got the farthest listening to Fight Club 2.

 

 

But I felt like he was yelling at me the entire time, despite me pretty much agreeing with what the message was, I was really uncomfortable during the entire thing. I wanted to yell back Calm down!! I can't hear you over all the yelling!!!

 

Mostly, though, I kept waiting for some sort of biblical explanation, more scholarly insight, less preaching, and more teaching.

 

I prefer things to be much quieter and cerebral during a service, I want to be pushed on an intellectual level so that I can reconcile it on a more spiritual level.

 

I agree with you on my own preferences for a church. But regarding the issue of your son - he won't be listening to the pastor. He will be exposed to whatever programs they have going for children.

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That was the point I was trying to make, that probably I am ok with it, even though it isn't my first choice for where my son will attend. I do think the children's program looks fine, and the minister was quick to answer my questions, which makes me happy.

 

But because of the vast difference between this church, and the ones I have actual experience with, I really don't know how to subjectively judge the situation, hence my many questions. Which despite the amount of them, aren't meant to be hurtful.

 

Until last week I thought they were going to Mass, with the rest of the family. I had no problem with that. ;)

 

 

This is the Apostles Creed, it was recited at most services I attended as a kid, both Presbyterian and Catholic.

 

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.

 

And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

 

I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic Church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. AMEN.

 

 

The Nicene Creed is this.

http://www.creeds.net/ancient/nicene.htm

Edited by jeninok
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I am more clear about it now, thanks to people answering my questions, the fixed links on the website, and some more research.

 

 

I do have major theological differences with the church, that do stem directly from the difference between the Creed, and the statement of faith.

 

We do not believe the bible as a literal inerrant work, I also have some issue with a church without a larger governing body of some sort, at this point though I don't want this to turn into something ugly.

 

I truly was unsure, and wanted honest opinions, I gave mine in return, in what I hope was a respectful way.

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I agree with others that this seems to be a contemporary nondenominational evangelical church.

 

I do not think it is Presbyterian. It appears they lean more toward Arminian and Pentecostal beliefs.

 

You may know this, but it confuses a lot of people: the word catholic in the A.C. refers to whole or universal, not the Catholic faith.

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FWIW, I know there have been (civilized!) discussions here about the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed - I know there are some denominations that do not use them because they aren't in the Bible as well as other reasons.

 

I found this article: http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=108 that explains some of the reasons behind some denominations/churches opting to not use the creeds mentioned.

 

FWIW, I think we recited both of them in the United Methodist church that I attended as a child.

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I agree with others that this seems to be a contemporary nondenominational evangelical church.

 

I do not think it is Presbyterian. It appears they lean more toward Arminian and Pentecostal beliefs.

 

You may know this, but it confuses a lot of people: the word catholic in the A.C. refers to whole or universal, not the Catholic faith.

 

Right, I knew it wasn't Presbyterian, that I could have quickly been evident and okay, and yes, thank you for clarifying the word Catholic in that creed!!

 

I do seem to remember one church I attended as a kid changed that to holy, or universal or something.

 

 

I think I finally fully identified my main concern, we are most closely UU, this means while certainly not evangelical, we fully support that as your own valid path to the divine.

 

Going from the other direction though, this most certainly will not be the case. :crying:

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:iagree:

 

 

That's the norm for many evangelicals (which is what it seems to be).

I haven't listened to a sermon or anything, but honestly if your only problem is with his delivery or with maybe feeling like he doesn't preach to your liking, I think it's not a big deal. I mean, we're not talking about you actually going there, right? So whether or not you like his delivery is sort of a moot point. I don't mean to sound harsh -- I guess I'm just thinking that if the church is preaching sound doctrine, I don't care how they are doing it. And I don't think that not liking the delivery personally makes anything wrong with it - it just isn't your cuppa. And that's ok.

It's probably more what I'm used to. I don't even know what any of those creeds (listed earlier in the thread) are. :D We do have an interim pastor at our church who teaches, and I love it. But we're not a 'quiet' sort of fellowship of people. :lol:

 

I've never been yelled at during a sermon at the many evangelical/no-denom churches that I've visited unless it was affiliated with a pentecostal/charismatic movement. Not my thing. But the best children's programs (which also aren't my cuppa but my kids loved them) were also at the yelling-sermon churches. Go figure.

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