I need opinions

[Nakia]

I have kind of a sticky situation, and I'd like your advice. My mother has a puppy (9 months old) that I do.not.trust. I am a HUGE animal lover, and I've hardly ever met a dog I didn't love. I have two of my own that I adore. My mother has 4 dogs, and I love the other three, but this dog weirds me out. When we walk in the house, if he's in his crate or running around, he growls a deep, aggressive growl. Even as he comes near us (and recognizes us) he growls, but then he stops and starts playing pretty quickly. I know dogs growl, and it's part of their language. But this is not a playful puppy growl. And there's just something about the way his eyes look. He has never bitten anyone or even acted like he was going to. It's just the growl and the look in his eyes. But he definitely squigs me out.

 

Anyway, I don't feel like I'm being clear, and I don't have any more examples, but I just have a feeling. We spend very very little time at my mother's house. The girls spend the night with her every couple of months. I did speak to my mom about the dog, but she insists he is harmless and loves the girls. He does play with them and has never seemed like he was going to bite. It's just this feeling I have! I know my mom is pissed that I even said anything, but I had to! I didn't say they girls can't go over there, but I'd hate myself if he bit them, and I hadn't listened to my gut. I did tell my girls that I'd like them to stay as far away from the dog as possible, but they are kids, ya know? And I don't necessarily want to scare them. My mother will not keep him crated while we/they are there, especially if it's an over night visit. She and I have a very strained relationship as it is, so I can't expect any respect for my feelings on it. It's her house so what can I say to that? I can't demand she put her own dog up in her own house. I don't know what I would do if the shoe was on the other foot, so to speak, but I feel like my daughter and grand kids would be more important than my dog. I want my girls to spend time with my mom, and she will not visit my home (won't get in to that! ARGH!) or go anywhere with us. This is just hard!

 

What would you do? My mother has invited them to spend the night in a couple of weeks. I'm torn. HELP!

[Lara in Colo]

If it were me, I would either lay down the law with my mother and insist the dog be crated when my children were there....or....

 

I would try to establish dominance over the dog by being more like an alpha and less like a visitor. Bring treats and train the dog to sit and lay on your command. Then move up to no and make him see your child as an extension of you.

[Catwoman]

I wouldn't let the kids spend the night if you have even the slightest concern about the dog.

 

If you said you'd never liked dogs, I might think you were over-reacting, but that's clearly not the case, so I think you should trust your instincts.

 

Your mom's priorities are in the wrong place. Don't feel guilty about keeping the kids home.

[magnificent_baby]

I wouldn't let the kids spend the night if you have even the slightest concern about the dog.

 

If you said you'd never liked dogs, I might think you were over-reacting, but that's clearly not the case, so I think you should trust your instincts.

 

Your mom's priorities are in the wrong place. Don't feel guilty about keeping the kids home.

 

Well said. :iagree:

[Robin M]

Go with your gut feeling. I wouldn't allow the kids over to her house unless she agrees to kennel the dogs while they are there. My sister has two cross breed pit bulls which aren't very well trained. The last time we were at their house, the dogs jumped all over james, knocking him over and licking him in the face. Repeatedly. Then when I wouldn't allow it anymore, one of the dogs decided he was alpha and began to growl at James when ever he saw him. It wasn't a relaxing visit by any means. I have since refused to go to her house because I simply don't trust the dogs. According to them, they wouldn't bite or do anything. Yet, when one was kenneled and hubby was trying to make friends and have James feed him a treat through the fence, it growled and lunged for him. Plus one of them recently attacked my nieces little dog, but they made excuses for the dog. So....

 

Sometimes you have to do the hard thing. Trust your feelings and don't let her talk you into it.

[WishboneDawn]

It's a gut feeling. It's a warning to do a little research maybe but (and I'm going to buck the trend I suspect will develop) it's not the sole basis on which you should be making a decision.

 

Do some research and call up a dog trainer or shelter and ask some questions to see if you've got any basis for concern. Do some reading on the internet.

 

But don't say no to this visit simply because of a gut feeling. Gut feelings often lie, we just tend to forget that because we generally remember only the ones that were confirmed.

 

If I were your mom I would definitely be hurt that you refused to let the kids stay because the dog growls a bit and because of, "the way his eyes look" when all other evidence seems to point to the dog being perfectly fine. It would feel either like an excuse offered to cover up the real reason you didn't want your kids around me or as if I was so unimportant that it takes nothing more then a feeling to get in the way of a night with my grand kids.

 

So do your research. See if your worry has any grounds and then make a decision.

[TravelingChris]

Trust your instincts. I think you are right not to trust the dog. I complete believe you that the dog is dangerous = both the deep growling and the look in the eyes- makes me think you are correct. Don't send your daughters.

[Bluegoat]

I agree, do more research.

 

I have a dog that really growls at people at the door, and isn't always immediately happy when they come in. She's more dominant than my other dog, and I am sure that is part of it, but I think she is just quite protective until she decides people are ok. And that includes ascertaining the intentions of people she sees regularly as well as strangers. Which I like since we've had quite a few break-ins on our street.

 

I know that some more dominant dogs can begin to see the door as a sort of trigger to assert themselves. So for a young dog, it might be a good idea to make sure that stayed at the level of keeping out bad people without escalating to actually. being aggressive with anyone else.

 

To me though it doesn't look like the dog is being aggressive that way, and if it's being trained and treated like a dog, it probably won't.

 

I think my approach would have been to suggest my relative looking into the growling more, or offering to look into it and report back. I wouldn't refuse visits because of a dog that is friendly other than with people at the door if it involves no biting.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Bluegoat

[Impish]

I wouldn't let the kids spend the night if you have even the slightest concern about the dog.

 

If you said you'd never liked dogs, I might think you were over-reacting, but that's clearly not the case, so I think you should trust your instincts.

 

Your mom's priorities are in the wrong place. Don't feel guilty about keeping the kids home.

:iagree:

[Harriet Vane]

I wouldn't let the kids spend the night if you have even the slightest concern about the dog.

 

If you said you'd never liked dogs, I might think you were over-reacting, but that's clearly not the case, so I think you should trust your instincts.

 

Your mom's priorities are in the wrong place. Don't feel guilty about keeping the kids home.

 

:iagree:

[Nakia]

If it were me, I would either lay down the law with my mother and insist the dog be crated when my children were there....or....

 

I would try to establish dominance over the dog by being more like an alpha and less like a visitor. Bring treats and train the dog to sit and lay on your command. Then move up to no and make him see your child as an extension of you.

 

The problem with your second suggestion is that we only see my mom about once a month. I don't have plans to go over there more often, for a lot of reasons, lol. Do you think I could get anywhere with such infrequent visits?

 

It's a gut feeling. It's a warning to do a little research maybe but (and I'm going to buck the trend I suspect will develop) it's not the sole basis on which you should be making a decision.

 

Do some research and call up a dog trainer or shelter and ask some questions to see if you've got any basis for concern. Do some reading on the internet.

 

But don't say no to this visit simply because of a gut feeling. Gut feelings often lie, we just tend to forget that because we generally remember only the ones that were confirmed.

 

If I were your mom I would definitely be hurt that you refused to let the kids stay because the dog growls a bit and because of, "the way his eyes look" when all other evidence seems to point to the dog being perfectly fine. It would feel either like an excuse offered to cover up the real reason you didn't want your kids around me or as if I was so unimportant that it takes nothing more then a feeling to get in the way of a night with my grand kids.

 

So do your research. See if your worry has any grounds and then make a decision.

 

What kind of questions do I need to ask? I know our shelter will be unhelpful; I have experience with them. I do know of a nice animal rescue place that would probably be willing to answer questions if I know what to ask. OTOH, they are very much one of those places that believe "animals are always redeemable" and I don't believe that. I'm NOT saying my mom's dog is bad or not redeemable at all (or even needs to be redeemed), btw.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Nakia

[Beth in OH]

I have permanently inherited a foster who is like this. I keep her crated when anyone is over. For an overnight visit, I would possibly 1. Keep her crated more (she'll survive) 2. Close her in my bedroom when she's uncrated, 3. Gate her into a single room with visual access and tell the kids it's off limits (a 6 year old should understand) 4. Keep the dog on a city leash (18") and under my command the whole time (hard work for me:lol:).

 

Some combination of these strategies should keep everyone safe and still allow for a nice visit. I've thought about this in my own home, and use these techniques now.

[WishboneDawn]

What kind of questions do I need to ask? I know our shelter will be unhelpful; I have experience with them. I do know of a nice animal rescue place that would probably be willing to answer questions if I know what to ask. OTOH, they are very much one of those places that believe "animals are always redeemable" and I don't believe that. I'm NOT saying my mom's dog is bad or not redeemable at all (or even needs to be redeemed), btw.

 

I would just describe the growling and associated behaviour and ask if it's a concern.

 

I've got a dog that's a growler as well. She has nipped a guest once - I passed her the new baby not realizing that Blue was very protective of the new addition - but that was unrelated to the growling. Her growling is just part of her greeting routine, even with me.

 

Dog vocalizations are complicated.

[Nakia]

I would just describe the growling and associated behaviour and ask if it's a concern.

 

I've got a dog that's a growler as well. She has nipped a guest once - I passed her the new baby not realizing that Blue was very protective of the new addition - but that was unrelated to the growling. Her growling is just part of her greeting routine, even with me.

 

Dog vocalizations are complicated.

 

For sure! My Yorkie growls when he plays and when we brush his teeth. All 3.5 lbs of him, lol.

[Unicorn.]

Is it possible that the dog has poor vision, and has to get close enough to see/ smell you, before it realizes who you are? I don't know what to tell you about the kids. I'm a big believer in gut instincts, but I also hate it when people jump to conclusions about animals. Sorry, I'm not much help.

[ktgrok]

Dog trainer and vet tech here. Look up dog body language images, and see if that is what you are seeing but can't describe. Personally, sounds like you are picking up very valid clues (body posture, stiffness, whites of the eyes, etc) and are acknowledging that this dog is not comfortable around you and your kids. Tell the kids to stay far away (fear biter probably). Ask grandma to humor you and keep the dog in the other room.

[besroma]

I wouldn't let the kids spend the night if you have even the slightest concern about the dog.

 

If you said you'd never liked dogs, I might think you were over-reacting, but that's clearly not the case, so I think you should trust your instincts.

 

Your mom's priorities are in the wrong place. Don't feel guilty about keeping the kids home.

 

:iagree:

[Mama Geek]

We had an alpha dog for 15 years. He never bit anyone, but we always kept a close eye on him especially around kids. We didn't have kids at the time so he didn't have kids in the house. Even now we have a much "easier" dog and we still keep close tabs on him around other peoples kids. I would feel horrible if he nipped or jumped up and knocked them over. I completely trust him with my dd.

 

If you are nervous around this one dog trust your instincts and protect your kids.

[WishboneDawn]

Dog trainer and vet tech here. Look up dog body language images, and see if that is what you are seeing but can't describe. Personally, sounds like you are picking up very valid clues (body posture, stiffness, whites of the eyes, etc) and are acknowledging that this dog is not comfortable around you and your kids. Tell the kids to stay far away (fear biter probably). Ask grandma to humor you and keep the dog in the other room.

 

That's a good thought. It may be you've noted those things without fully recognizing them and just ascribed that feeling to the eyes?

[Pawz4me]

Look up dog body language images, and see if that is what you are seeing but can't describe.

 

:iagree:

 

IMO body language is a much better indication of what a dog is "saying" than vocalizations.

[marbel]

Dog trainer and vet tech here. Look up dog body language images, and see if that is what you are seeing but can't describe. Personally, sounds like you are picking up very valid clues (body posture, stiffness, whites of the eyes, etc) and are acknowledging that this dog is not comfortable around you and your kids. Tell the kids to stay far away (fear biter probably). Ask grandma to humor you and keep the dog in the other room.

 

Then, you could tell your mom that you see the dog is not comfortable around you and your kids, thus the kids may need extra "protection" (for lack of a better word) from him. Maybe if you have something more than a feeling to describe, it will make more sense to your mom.

 

I've been reading these posts and thinking about this from the PoV of your mom. Our dog can be a little intimidating to people when they are new to him. He was a rescue dog and appears to have a complicated past. He sees everyone who comes into the house - unless he knows them well - as a threat but also a potential playmate. So he barks, and sometimes can be a little growly. We use a thundershirt to help him calm down, though I know that's no help in your situation.

 

I hope you find a solution quickly. :grouphug:

[WishboneDawn]

Then, you could tell your mom that you see the dog is not comfortable around you and your kids, thus the kids may need extra "protection" (for lack of a better word) from him. Maybe if you have something more than a feeling to describe, it will make more sense to your mom.

 

I've been reading these posts and thinking about this from the PoV of your mom. Our dog can be a little intimidating to people when they are new to him. He was a rescue dog and appears to have a complicated past. He sees everyone who comes into the house - unless he knows them well - as a threat but also a potential playmate. So he barks, and sometimes can be a little growly. We use a thundershirt to help him calm down, though I know that's no help in your situation.

 

I hope you find a solution quickly. :grouphug:

 

Better yet, that the dog is stressed around the kids and HE needs quiet and protection. That way it looks like you're coming at the issue from her POV with her concerns in mind.

[marbel]

Better yet, that the dog is stressed around the kids and HE needs quiet and protection. That way it looks like you're coming at the issue from her POV with her concerns in mind.

 

:iagree:Oh, that is so much better! :D As a dog and kid mommy, that would make me much more open to the suggestion.

[momofkhm]

Trust your instincts. I think you are right not to trust the dog. I complete believe you that the dog is dangerous = both the deep growling and the look in the eyes- makes me think you are correct. Don't send your daughters.

 

:iagree:

 

DH has been telling me about things he's read about people being attacked by other people - too often we ignore our gut feelings. We try to be polite. We try to do the normal thing. Instead there are times we should run like he....

 

If your gut is telling you not to trust this dog, don't trust this dog. And do I remember from your sig that your daughters are 12, 9 and 6? (Where did the time go? I can remember when the youngest was 3! Wasn't that like yesterday?) I would trust the 12 yo to not go near the dog if you said, the 9 yo maybe and the 6 yo not at all. She is most likely to forget what mom said about the dog.

 

:grouphug: It's not an easy situation by any means.

[Chris in VA]

Just wanted to add to make sure your mom doesn't reprimand the dog for growling. You WANT a dog to give you a growl if it's feeling uncomfortable. Don't take away the "warning!" It may not always be a warning, of course, but sometimes it is. This advice is from my boss, who is a dog trainer.

[Tammyla]

:iagree: My sister's dd (8 at the time), was attacked and bitten repeatedly by her step-mother's chow; it was awful. and her dad was right there when it happened. He had to fight the dog off of her.

 

I wouldn't let the kids spend the night if you have even the slightest concern about the dog.

 

If you said you'd never liked dogs, I might think you were over-reacting, but that's clearly not the case, so I think you should trust your instincts.

 

Your mom's priorities are in the wrong place. Don't feel guilty about keeping the kids home.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Go with your gut feeling. I wouldn't allow the kids over to her house unless she agrees to kennel the dogs while they are there.

 

:iagree: Also, I would not have your children do sleepovers at all since, based upon her attitude, I wouldn't trust her not to let the dog out as soon as you were out of sight.

[celticmom]

Dog trainer and vet tech here. Look up dog body language images, and see if that is what you are seeing but can't describe. Personally, sounds like you are picking up very valid clues (body posture, stiffness, whites of the eyes, etc) and are acknowledging that this dog is not comfortable around you and your kids. Tell the kids to stay far away (fear biter probably). Ask grandma to humor you and keep the dog in the other room.

 

:iagree:Could you possibly tell your mother that you believe that the dog is stressed by the situation and you are concerned about him? I know that your first concern is your children's safety but that approach might go over better with your mother.

[celticmom]

Better yet, that the dog is stressed around the kids and HE needs quiet and protection. That way it looks like you're coming at the issue from her POV with her concerns in mind.

 

:iagree:That is exactly what I was trying to say but I think you worded it better.

[Seasider]

Some situations are the "it only takes once" variety. Eat too much candy and get a stomachache, forget to wear sunscreen and get a little sunburned, forget the laundry and don't have clean socks? These decisions all have consequences, but ones that are temporary.

 

The decision to show a little "grace" to the owner of an unpredictable pet can have life-long, unalterable consequences. I've witnessed a dog bite to the face. It happened so very fast... and could not be undone. This bite was made by a jumping dog that probably weighed about as much as your Yorkie. I've seen a near-bite to the face by a Dalmation; my imagination was ripe with images of what could have happened if the vigilant owner had not pulled back on the leash in time.

 

We have gramma with beloved-bad-dog issues, too. It has definitely affected our ability to visit her at home. She sometimes crates the dog, but as another poster mentioned, she thinks I am overly concerned and has more sympathy for the dog than for the safety of my children. My last visit to stay overnight was when my youngest was 2 years old. A dog-loving two year old, thanks to the super wonderful Lab owned by a neighbor. A kid who expected *all* dogs to be as patient and friendly as that Lab. I stayed side-by-side with this child the entire three day visit. Twice I had to scoop her up and away from a suddenly-snapping dog. My mom acted stunned and confused the first time...but let her out the crate a second time :glare:. I came home and slept for two days. And we have never spent the night at her home again. Of course, now her feelings are hurt because we stay in a hotel.

 

It is a difficult spot to be in, but I will choose my child's safety over a dog EVERY TIME.

[justLisa]

I think I'd try and take her off the defense by steering the conversation toward keeping the dog at ease by keeping him separate.

 

That's a tough call. I am sure i have offended some dog owners because I am leary of dogs naturally and I cannot help it. Though in my defense around here it is common to just let your dogs run and then when they start charging you the owner yells out "OH don't worry he's friendly." I am ok with dogs on a leash that are not running at me or if I know the owner well. I watched my sister get bit in the arm when we were little. Dogs probably know I am leary, but in your case you love dogs so I would trust your instinct.

[Catwoman]

Also, I would not have your children do sleepovers at all since, based upon her attitude, I wouldn't trust her not to let the dog out as soon as you were out of sight.

 

:iagree:

 

I was thinking the exact same thing. Clearly, your mom doesn't think the dog has any issues, so I wouldn't trust her to keep the dog confined during the visit. She might even try to make your kids feel sorry for the "poor, sweet dog stuck in his crate," or locked in a bedroom or whatever, so they would agree to have her turn him loose.

 

As I said before, if you have even the slightest doubt about the dog, keep the kids home. If the dog is more important to your mom than are your concerns or your kids' safety, that is very sad. And hurtful. :glare: Your mom knows you like dogs and that you're good with them, so she should take your concerns seriously -- and if she doesn't, I see no reason why you should have to tiptoe around the issue with her.

 

BTW, if your mom agrees to crate the dog so the kids can visit, make sure one of the kids has a cell phone so they can call you if your mom goes back on her word and lets the dog out.

[3peasinWa]

listen to your gut!

[Nakia]

Thanks for your advice. I'm going to talk more with my mom soon. Her father was just put in a Hospice facility so this isn't the right time, of course.

 

Thanks again.

[justLisa]

:grouphug::grouphug: I'm sorry. That for sure ads to the tenderness of the situation.

 

Thanks for your advice. I'm going to talk more with my mom soon. Her father was just put in a Hospice facility so this isn't the right time, of course.

 

Thanks again.