mommymilkies Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 My eldest is very smart. She is 11.5 and in 6th grade. She is an excellent reader and 99th% overall on ITBS and CogAT. That said...grammar is her kryptonite. She really just doesn't get it. This is after several years of FLL (3 years), JAG, WWE, daily grammar type practice books, etc. KISS ended in desperate tears. FLL was the bane of her existence. MCT was barely tolerable (she likes the poetry, though) but NONE of it sunk in. She just started WWS and groans with displeasure and struggles back tears at the sight of the book. She still quakes in fear from IEW. She can write creative stuff fairly decently, but mechanics are a HUGE issue for her. That was her lowest score in testing. I was a natural at English until Mommy Brain took over, so I really am failing on where to go from here. She is doing Killgallon Story Grammar for Elementary because she needs so much remedial work. She is almost ok with it, but she doesn't seem to be learning anything at all. Latin is going ok but I don't see it helping with grammar. My ds is barely better than her at this and he is in 5th grade. She is a VSL by far. Her verbal scores are pretty low. She can read great, narrate, do dictation, uses wonderful vocabulary and language IRL. But we need something else. I was thinking Rod and Staff 6. I know the Biblical stories permeating it will bother her, though (she is not Christian). She doesn't mind hearing them once in awhile, but all the time will annoy her. So I also have looked at GWG for awhile, but I hear mixed review. Help? Would R & S English help a VSL who just doesn't get grammar and mechanics? Would it be overkill to use with CW Homer or WWS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birchbark Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Have you looked at Cozy Grammar, which is video-based? They also have a punctuation video. If you try R&S I would suggest doing it orally. Level 6 is going to be very challenging to someone struggling in grammar; you might want to consider 4 or 5. How much grammar does she know? Does she have the basic parts of speech down? My favorite resource for that is The Sentence Family. No writing involved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almondbutterandjelly Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 My VSL loved and learned a lot from Grammar Tales, Punctuation Tales, and Parts of Speech Tales by Scholastic. The Brian Cleary books are also good. Eat, Shoots and Leaves is good. I agree with pp suggestion about the Sentence Family. What about reading Nesbit's Grammarland together? Super Duper Inc. makes some awesome Fun Decks with all the different parts of speech. Schoolhouse Rock is good. Besides these kinds of things, my VSL also really clicked with diagramming (color code it to be additionally helpful). Also, the Editor in Chief software from Critical Thinking Company was very helpful for my VSL. Painful, but I only required about 10 or 15 minutes at a time once every two weeks. Oh, my VSL also did well with the Language Smarts books from Critical Thinking Company. HTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I'm trained as a linguist and have spent years teaching language, so I do enjoy learning about syntax and happily teach it to my kids. But I think that you can become a productive and educated user of written English without necessarily knowing grammatical terms. If diagramming or knowing different terms to describe categories of words aren't helpful to her, skip those and simply focus on the actual output of written English. Turn your attention less to "grammar" and more to writing mechanics. Can she punctuate? Does she know how to use quotations? Does she know the difference between possessives and plurals and can use an apostrophe appropriately? At the end of the day, these types of skills are what really matters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durriyyah Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Does she basically know how to fix a sentence, but doesn't like diagramming? I know you said she doesn't like IEW, but their book Fix-It is great! DD1 loathed diagramming and she doesn't mind Fix-It at all! You have sentences from literature that you have to fix, using standard proofreading symbols. I think it was less than $35, so even if she hates it, you aren't out a ton of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammieb Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 If you try R&S I would suggest doing it orally. Level 6 is going to be very challenging to someone struggling in grammar; you might want to consider 4 or 5. :iagree: This would be my suggestion, too! DD (now 12) was EXTREMELY weak in grammar coming out of another program in 3rd grade. We went to R & S in 4th. VERY challenging for a weak student, but it has paid off EXPONENTIALLY! Grammar is her STRONGEST subject now! I personally would recommend you do the written lessons. At this age, a 45 minute grammar lesson isn't too much to ask, especially if it's an area they need to work on to get stronger. Hope you find what works for her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 For a VSL, what about Winston? In terms of bringing up standardized test scores for mechanics, I highly recommend Evan-Moor's Daily Paragraph Editing. My DD scored much lower on mechanics than any other verbal section when using MCT until I added in DPE. The following year after using DPE she did very well on the English (grammar) section of the EXPLORE talent search test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 For a VSL, what about Winston? In terms of bringing up standardized test scores for mechanics, I highly recommend Evan-Moor's Daily Paragraph Editing. My DD scored much lower on mechanics than any other verbal section when using MCT until I added in DPE. The following year after using DPE she did very well on the English (grammar) section of the EXPLORE talent search test. Hijack-which grade did you use for DPE.? My son used grade 5 last year and i wanted to bump him to grade 7 but i am not finding that on amazon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAIMOM Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I am not sure of some of the abbreviations you used so I am not sure if I am on the same page or not. What is VSL? Does it have to do with the visual learning modality? Just a quick note about our story. My DD in 10th grade loves math and hated grammar. I came across Shurley Grammar for my 6th grader and decided to go with the 8th level Shurley for my 10th grader (purchased from a high school teacher that used it for remedial high school English). That is the best thing I have done for her. It also is the best thing for me. I struggled all my life with grammar and in a matter of a few days realized I get it now. Shurley English uses a question answer flow and it is done orally for the most part at first. You learn a jingle for the parts of speech. The second week my DD was telling her brother "hey, you know all those underline the subject once and the verb twice and the predicate? Well, I can do that now." I have been amazed at how grammar presented this way has clicked with our logical minds. We were doing several sentences the other day and both of us laughed and said...did you ever think we would be saying prepositions are easy? I love the teachers manual because it has the script written out for me to read. Then we work 3 sentences together orally as we write it on the whiteboard. Fun, easy and successful!!! I cannot recommend this any higher! At 40 something I can say I get it thanks to this curriculum. I am so thankful my DD's do not have to wait this long to get it. I told my husband I now love grammar and think I will be ready to tutor once we finish this years curriculum...LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 I'm trained as a linguist and have spent years teaching language, so I do enjoy learning about syntax and happily teach it to my kids. But I think that you can become a productive and educated user of written English without necessarily knowing grammatical terms. If diagramming or knowing different terms to describe categories of words aren't helpful to her, skip those and simply focus on the actual output of written English. Turn your attention less to "grammar" and more to writing mechanics. Can she punctuate? Does she know how to use quotations? Does she know the difference between possessives and plurals and can use an apostrophe appropriately? At the end of the day, these types of skills are what really matters... It's not just the terminology. In theory, she knows what most of the parts of speech are, but can not always identify them. I'm more worried about the mechanics at this part. Like you said, quotations, punctuation, etc. The problem is I had and sold most of these programs without trying them because she would show progress at the one we were using, so I figured more was overkill. And then they wouldn't work for her. :lol: VSL is Visual Spatial Learner. She actually learns well to music. She's quite musically talented, but more oral programs like FLL did not work. Diagramming actually helps her, but it's new to me! You guys are awesome. Now I'm off to look up all these books! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Does she basically know how to fix a sentence, but doesn't like diagramming? I know you said she doesn't like IEW, but their book Fix-It is great! DD1 loathed diagramming and she doesn't mind Fix-It at all! You have sentences from literature that you have to fix, using standard proofreading symbols. I think it was less than $35, so even if she hates it, you aren't out a ton of money. I just sold mine without trying it. :lol: No, she needs work fixing sentences. Diagramming helps her and doesn't mind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Hijack-which grade did you use for DPE.? My son used grade 5 last year and i wanted to bump him to grade 7 but i am not finding that on amazon. I think it only goes up to grade 6. At least, that's the highest one I see listed at Evan-Moor's website. DD used the Grade 4 book because I was given a copy by a fellow mom in our HS support group who had only used a few pages out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I'm trained as a linguist and have spent years teaching language, so I do enjoy learning about syntax and happily teach it to my kids. But I think that you can become a productive and educated user of written English without necessarily knowing grammatical terms. If diagramming or knowing different terms to describe categories of words aren't helpful to her, skip those and simply focus on the actual output of written English. Turn your attention less to "grammar" and more to writing mechanics. Can she punctuate? Does she know how to use quotations? Does she know the difference between possessives and plurals and can use an apostrophe appropriately? At the end of the day, these types of skills are what really matters... :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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