Why is this important? Rightstart A

[longnightmoon]

Hi there,

 

I'm into week 3 of homeschooling with my k'er. So far, it's going great. RS A is driving me a bit batty, though. I am not a math person AT ALL. I purchased RS with the hope it would give my dd a much better foundation than I received in school. However, the focus on quadrilaterals, rectangles, triangles, etc. seems so random to me, especially for a 5yo. We're on lesson 15 and I'm trying to give it a good chance but the lessons seem disjointed to me. Am I just not getting the importance of what they're teaching? Anyone else feel this way? I pulled out a Singapore Essential Math workbook yesterday and it was kind of a relief. It focused on just one topic for several pages instead of multiple topics per lesson. I realize it's early in the game but is RS A really worth it?

 

Thanks in advance for any insight and encouragement!

[cmarango]

I think that RS A is fantastic for the geometry lessons and also for teaching children to think in groups of 5 (versus 10 in Singapore). However, Singapore Essentials is very easy to use and is also very good.

[Soror]

Well, RS is spiral so it introduces lots of topics and covers them in further depth over the years. I didn't get it at first but I like it and it works well. I just see it as exposure on some topics and don't expect mastery on everything just yet.

[longnightmoon]

Thanks so much for your replies.

 

Christina, I agree that the attention given on groups of 5 is really good. My dd is catching on really well and the abacus is wonderful for teaching this concept. The abacus may be the biggest reason we keep RS - my dd loves it.

 

Soror, thanks for the reminder not to work on mastery. My dd really gets the number concepts but she doesn't feel comfortable with the geoboards and isn't as interested in the geometry portions. So I feel like I'm talking to myself half the time. :tongue_smilie: Perhaps it would help if I change my mindset a bit...or do half a lesson at a time.

 

Thanks so much for your help.

[boscopup]

I ditched RS A for Singapore Essentials K when I tried it with DS2. It was a great move for us. My son learned more from Singapore (i've recently figured out that he does best with a pictorial presentation combined with manipulative, rather than just manipulative).

 

We're halfway through Singapore 1A and I don't have any regrets not doing RS. It wasn't my teaching style, and I really disagreed with some of the methodology. I'm mathy and naturally do mental math like Singapore, Math Mammoth, etc. teach. So that part wasn't an issue. I think Singapore and Math Mammoth both do a great job teaching mental math techniques, and I haven't seen anything in my older son's education lacking from not doing RS (he's in Singapore 5A).

Edited September 20, 2012 by boscopup

[longnightmoon]

Hmmm, you make Essentials very tempting!! Maybe I should alternate for a while and see which works best for her (and has the most dread factor for me). Thanks for your reply. I wish my dd would just tell me what her learning style is - seriously, is that so much to ask? :) Those are great recommendations so I'll take a look.

[Soror]

I don't think RS is the only way, obviously fwiw, but it has worked for us here.

[boscopup]

Hmmm, you make Essentials very tempting!! Maybe I should alternate for a while and see which works best for her (and has the most dread factor for me). Thanks for your reply. I wish my dd would just tell me what her learning style is - seriously, is that so much to ask? :) Those are great recommendations so I'll take a look.

 

Most programs will work for a variety of learning styles. Pick the program that YOU understand and enjoy teaching.

 

A friend of mine just e-mailed me today and mentioned that she was thinking about switching back to Math Mammoth. She was trying Singapore this year, and her son likes the presentation better, but my friend is struggling with the small print in the HIG and trying to wrap her brain around what she's supposed to teach. She understands Math Mammoth and has no trouble with that. Her son can handle either program just fine. I told her switching back to Math Mammoth sounded like a good idea. While *I* like Singapore better, it sounds like my friend would do best with Math Mammoth, so it's a better choice for her homeschool. Either way, her son will learn conceptual math, complete with mental math, so it's all good. :)

 

I wanted to like Rightstart, after reading all the rave reviews. But frankly, I just hated teaching it. I hated having to pull out a bunch of manipulatives each day (we use C-rods with Singapore - that's it... just C-rods). I hated having to copy a gazillion different things for each lesson. I hated not knowing what we were going to learn that day because it was all over the place. I'm a linear thinker. A mastery math program makes more sense to me. Teach a topic, explore it and practice it, then move on to the next logical topic that builds on the first one. And finally, I really don't care if my child can visualize 3 objects without counting them. How on earth does that help a child do algebra, geometry, or calculus?!? :confused:

 

If you and your DD like the abacus, bring that with you to Singapore. You can use any manipulative with any math program. Use what works (and keeps you sane!).

[Aoife]

rightstart is Montessori based with asian influence. You could go the pure montessori route which may work better for you and your DC. W are a lil different here we use RS along with pure Montessori along with MiF ( singapore math ) We LOVE Montessori and honestly if I had to pick just 1 I would drop the RS and MiF in a heartbeat :lol: Montessori math just makes so much sense to both me and my DC. If you hate manipulatives though it would not be for your LOL It is definitely mastery based although it does introduce young children to pretty advanced topics in a very easy to understand way. I love this because down the line when you come back to for example the binomial cube in it's algebraic uses the kids connect back to that early exposure and lightbulbs go off.

 

For homeschoolers you could take a look at Brilliant minds montessori or just find some online albums ( I have some linked in my blog) and go from there. Just another option cause well I love Montessori :lol: I love singapore math too but I am an oddball and I do find it lacking in things that you find in Montessori and RS so if you went full SM I would still advise adding in elements from RS or Montessori.

[cagirlintexas]

I am doing Rightstart A along with McRuffy K. I agree there are somethings about rightstart that I don't love. For example the visualization thing. He also isn't really getting the shape things but this seems to be a hard area for him. Also I don't do the number writing portion at all in either program because we are doing handwriting without tears. Although there are things that I don't like I am finding that my son is really picking up the concepts. We are on lesson 23 and all of a sudden he is starting to be add a little and using numbers in daily life. I don't love the program but I do love the results.

[longnightmoon]

Wow, thanks for all the great advice. I really appreciate it.

 

Boscopup - You are totally right about choosing something that keeps me sane. RS hasn't made me lose my sanity yet but I sense I might find I would do better with something mastery-based. The skipping around makes me feel like we're not getting anywhere. And just today I opened up today's lesson and realized I need to copy three sets of cards. Grrr! Thanks for the great insights.

 

Aoife - I really appreciate your reply. I'm not familiar with Montessori math so I'll take a look at your blog. My dd also has ASD so I'm very interested in looking at something that has been successful for your son. The one thing that has been nice with RS so far is that it is pretty exploratory and getting my dd to follow a set of rules that aren't of her own creation will be a constant work in progress (not sure if you can resonate with that or not). Just today we did a page in Singapore about circling sets w/ two different colors - well, she wanted to circle them all in different colors and getting her to see that isn't quite the objective was a struggle I didn't end up winning. There's always tomorrow. :tongue_smilie:

 

Cagirl - You make me want to hang on a little longer. I'm glad someone else can resonate with some of the frustrations! If the results with my dd can be worth the headache, I might stick with it a little longer so long as my sanity stays intact. Glad you are finding something that works well for you and glad to hear it gets better, too!

 

 

Thanks again! I'm feeling a little more hopeful and also better about using other options if I need to go that way. Whew.

[2squared]

And just today I opened up today's lesson and realized I need to copy three sets of cards. Grrr!

I have had the same frustration with RS. What I did to solve it was:

 

*Ordered the appendix packet from RS - everything precopied on the right paper in the right quantities.

*Cut out everything before the school year began.

*Prepped materials for every lesson for the entire book before the school year began. I have little plastic snack bags for each lesson with the required materials. Now when I work with my Ker, I grab the teacher's manual, workbook, abacus, and my little box with prepped plastic baggies. The lessons have been smooth.

 

Level A is a little "bumpy" the first time through. When you get about 1/2 way into B, it all falls into place. But then B feels a little bumpy. It falls into place once you get into C. And so on and so on .... until at least Level E. I haven't been through E yet, so I don't know where it's going. I can tell you, though, that I am loving Level E. :001_smile: I think it's as good as Level B.

[Aoife]

 

Aoife - I really appreciate your reply. I'm not familiar with Montessori math so I'll take a look at your blog. My dd also has ASD so I'm very interested in looking at something that has been successful for your son. The one thing that has been nice with RS so far is that it is pretty exploratory and getting my dd to follow a set of rules that aren't of her own creation will be a constant work in progress (not sure if you can resonate with that or not). Just today we did a page in Singapore about circling sets w/ two different colors - well, she wanted to circle them all in different colors and getting her to see that isn't quite the objective was a struggle I didn't end up winning. There's always tomorrow. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

 

 

With DS1 (ASD) Montessori math has been our life saver! Even on bad bad days when he is less then cooperative or on weeks like we are going through right now where his meds are off and we are waiting to get into the neuro for adjustments it really has been a saving grace. One thing to keep in mind about Montessori is she developed the base of her methods with special needs children many of whom during her time were probably ASD in institutions. Montessori for the most part is self correcting which is a big part of why is works so well with ASD kids. There is less correcting them or stepping in to have to say anything was done incorrectly. For instance on a bad day I can sit him down with addition slips and say the addition strip board or stamp game and he can work through it independently and not only that he comes away from the activities with a great understanding of the concept because he is doing it in many ways. I might also add that you don't have to run out and buy super expensive montessori materials if it is not in your budget. Many can be made or in the case of montessoriprintshop.com just printed on cardstock and cut out. montessori print shop even has free downloads like a free printable stamp game! If you do some searches on youtube for "montessori math" you will get a TON of hits and you can watch video explanations of how most of the materials are used and how to give demos to your DC. I have had so many AHA moments just watching videos on youtube. I fell in love with Montessori so deeply that I have gone back to school and am currently in training for my 6-9 certificate :lol:

[longnightmoon]

I have had the same frustration with RS. What I did to solve it was:

 

Level A is a little "bumpy" the first time through. When you get about 1/2 way into B, it all falls into place. But then B feels a little bumpy. It falls into place once you get into C. And so on and so on .... until at least Level E. I haven't been through E yet, so I don't know where it's going. I can tell you, though, that I am loving Level E. :001_smile: I think it's as good as Level B.

 

This really made me laugh. Not sure I can hold on until halfway through B but we'll see. And I didn't realize you could order stuff pre-copied for you! That would be a godsend. Thanks for the heads up! I appreciate it!

[longnightmoon]

With DS1 (ASD) Montessori math has been our life saver! Even on bad bad days when he is less then cooperative or on weeks like we are going through right now where his meds are off and we are waiting to get into the neuro for adjustments it really has been a saving grace. One thing to keep in mind about Montessori is she developed the base of her methods with special needs children many of whom during her time were probably ASD in institutions. Montessori for the most part is self correcting which is a big part of why is works so well with ASD kids. There is less correcting them or stepping in to have to say anything was done incorrectly. For instance on a bad day I can sit him down with addition slips and say the addition strip board or stamp game and he can work through it independently and not only that he comes away from the activities with a great understanding of the concept because he is doing it in many ways. I might also add that you don't have to run out and buy super expensive montessori materials if it is not in your budget. Many can be made or in the case of montessoriprintshop.com just printed on cardstock and cut out. montessori print shop even has free downloads like a free printable stamp game! If you do some searches on youtube for "montessori math" you will get a TON of hits and you can watch video explanations of how most of the materials are used and how to give demos to your DC. I have had so many AHA moments just watching videos on youtube. I fell in love with Montessori so deeply that I have gone back to school and am currently in training for my 6-9 certificate :lol:

 

I'd love to look at Montessori more closely. You nailed it on how much of a struggle it can be to constantly be correcting - it gets us nowhere. I end up not correcting which doesn't really help, either. As I mentioned before, I think this will be one of our biggest works in progress on our homeschool journey. Thanks for the links to the materials. I don't mind using manipulatives but I do think a more linear approach would help ME (although I'm not bailing on RS yet). Thanks for your help. Wishing you lots of patience and stamina as you get through these weeks with your son. Those bad weeks are so tough. :grouphug:

[LynnG in Arizona]

I have had the same frustration with RS. What I did to solve it was:

 

*Ordered the appendix packet from RS - everything precopied on the right paper in the right quantities.

*Cut out everything before the school year began.

*Prepped materials for every lesson for the entire book before the school year began. I have little plastic snack bags for each lesson with the required materials. Now when I work with my Ker, I grab the teacher's manual, workbook, abacus, and my little box with prepped plastic baggies. The lessons have been smooth.

 

Level A is a little "bumpy" the first time through. When you get about 1/2 way into B, it all falls into place. But then B feels a little bumpy. It falls into place once you get into C. And so on and so on .... until at least Level E. I haven't been through E yet, so I don't know where it's going. I can tell you, though, that I am loving Level E. :001_smile: I think it's as good as Level B.

 

 

I agree with all of the above (except we're just 1/3rd through Level C).

 

Order the copies. They are very inexpensive and worth it.

 

RS felt odd to me for a long time . . . But it's got a lot of genius in it that I appreciate even more the second time through. Since you have another student coming up, I'd especially encourage you to stick with RS if possible. Both my kids love it . . . and *I* love the results.

 

That being said, there are of course many ways to skin a cat.

[Soror]

I have had the same frustration with RS. What I did to solve it was:

 

*Ordered the appendix packet from RS - everything precopied on the right paper in the right quantities.

*Cut out everything before the school year began.

*Prepped materials for every lesson for the entire book before the school year began. I have little plastic snack bags for each lesson with the required materials. Now when I work with my Ker, I grab the teacher's manual, workbook, abacus, and my little box with prepped plastic baggies. The lessons have been smooth.

 

Level A is a little "bumpy" the first time through. When you get about 1/2 way into B, it all falls into place. But then B feels a little bumpy. It falls into place once you get into C. And so on and so on .... until at least Level E. I haven't been through E yet, so I don't know where it's going. I can tell you, though, that I am loving Level E. :001_smile: I think it's as good as Level B.

 

I didn't realize you could order it precopied either. My biggest fit with B was the copies, that would have been sooooo worth it. I did all my copies with C before the year. We are in D now and I haven't even looked but I don't think there is a lot of copies required. I didn't do A with ds but am with dd but we've just started. I do think there is a bit of a learning curve with RS but we really like it and my goodness I will be ordering copies for the next time we do B!

 

I have to say though it took a lot of stubbornness on my part to make it through Level B at times. I really felt it best for my ds and I didn't want to have a huge expensive program flop and I'm glad we stuck it out. I'm sure others feel differently but for us I believe it was the right decision.

Edited September 20, 2012 by soror

[longnightmoon]

I have to say though it took a lot of stubbornness on my part to make it through Level B at times. I really felt it best for my ds and I didn't want to have a huge expensive program flop and I'm glad we stuck it out.

 

This. I don't want an expensive curriculum flop, either. That's probably my biggest motivation of all for sticking it out. For our budget's sake, I hope I can see the genius in it really soon! :001_smile:

[Jennifer-72]

I wasn't sure about RS A at first. I am so glad I stuck with it. It has been a great fit for my ds with ASD. We are now on RS C, and I love the confidence he has in his math skills.

[cagirlintexas]

I have had the same frustration with RS. What I did to solve it was:

 

*Ordered the appendix packet from RS - everything precopied on the right paper in the right quantities.

*Cut out everything before the school year began.

*Prepped materials for every lesson for the entire book before the school year began. I have little plastic snack bags for each lesson with the required materials. Now when I work with my Ker, I grab the teacher's manual, workbook, abacus, and my little box with prepped plastic baggies. The lessons have been smooth.

.

 

How did I miss that you could do this???

[OrganicMom]

This really made me laugh. Not sure I can hold on until halfway through B but we'll see. And I didn't realize you could order stuff pre-copied for you! That would be a godsend. Thanks for the heads up! I appreciate it!

 

yes, i bought the appendix that had the copies made on card stock too. then i laminated them and cut them with the paper cutter... now, they are durable and ready to go... so thankful for some of the prep or else I would have felt the same as you.

[LynnG in Arizona]

yes, i bought the appendix that had the copies made on card stock too. then i laminated them and cut them with the paper cutter... now, they are durable and ready to go... so thankful for some of the prep or else I would have felt the same as you.

 

 

Just for another perspective . . . I do have a laminator, but have not felt the need to laminate any RS materials. The card stock is pretty darn durable, and in some cases (like the "bead", "finger", and "dot" cards), they've held up quite nicely through two children . . . without lamination.

 

Not to argue at all, but just wanted to share what has worked for us in case the prospect of tons of lamination scared anybody off.

 

And I did buy a second set of the copied appendix pages for my second child, because some of those pages are consumable and some are not. At the very inexpensive price, it was worth it for me to do this.

[OrganicMom]

Just for another perspective . . . I do have a laminator, but have not felt the need to laminate any RS materials. The card stock is pretty darn durable, and in some cases (like the "bead", "finger", and "dot" cards), they've held up quite nicely through two children . . . without lamination.

 

Not to argue at all, but just wanted to share what has worked for us in case the prospect of tons of lamination scared anybody off.

 

And I did buy a second set of the copied appendix pages for my second child, because some of those pages are consumable and some are not. At the very inexpensive price, it was worth it for me to do this.

agreed!

[2squared]

How did I miss that you could do this???

 

I figured out my system the second time through Level A. You would have figured it out the next time through too. Survival, ya see!

 

I'm going through A for the third time right now, and let me tell you, it is unbelievably easy this time. I hardly have to read the pages at all. :D

[OrganicMom]

so because of this thread... i'm actually sitting on a couch with book in hand to read through the level A book right now! i feel like it will make me better prepared.

 

b/c i'm doing level A with my son and level B with my daughter and I too have felt a little scattered, not as confident in my teaching... (we are coming from horizon, singapore, and miquon) as my daughter is progressing quicker in level B my confidence (and the prep work i did prior) growing! but I need a little more prep time... i.e. READING it in advance time for my son who i'm always having to teach on the edge of my seat... for example... adapt everything to him so that he is staying with it or listening etc...

[LynnG in Arizona]

I figured out my system the second time through Level A. You would have figured it out the next time through too. Survival, ya see!

 

I'm going through A for the third time right now, and let me tell you, it is unbelievably easy this time. I hardly have to read the pages at all. :D

 

I'm having a similar experience. We're about 1/3rd of the way through Level A (for the second time), and it seems easy-peasy . . . and my little guy loves it. I'm even making more time for games . . . or do I just have more time for games because I know what I'm doing now? ;)

[Soror]

I'm teaching DD level A for the first time as I started ds with lvlB but it seems much more easy now as I have a feel for where we are going and the lay-out of the lessons. I understand more about the program being spiral, which confused the heck out of me in the beginning. I'm much more mastery oriented but I've grown accustomed to it and enjoy introducing little concepts in bits and pieces as we go along. I don't worry anymore that everything isn't completely mastered the first time it is done.

[longnightmoon]

You all are giving me confidence to keep with it for a while longer. Thanks for all the insight! Agreeing with Organicmom that doing some reading ahead would help me immensely. I've only been reading ahead one lesson at a time - perhaps reading a week ahead would help give me the big picture for the week (if there is one) and it wouldn't feel as disjointed. Here's hoping. :)