A poll about class - read post first please

[regentrude]

I think his point is that so many wealthier and educated people are out of touch with so called mainstream America and honestly don't comprehend how most people live. And don't realize that the most common things, ARE that common. So they don't realize many, many Amerians come home from work aching, or go out to eat at certain restaurants, or smoke. These are different worlds.

 

But to know that they do physical labor, eat at chain restaurants, watch TV shows and smoke, a person does not have to do this oneself. That's the point I don't get. I am not sure what cooking meals at home, not having a TV and not smoking has to do with class - anybody could choose to do that, irrespective of income or social status.

[Kathryn]

I am American and your class has a lot more to do with how you act than how much you make, what the diploma on your wall says, or anything else.

its about treating others with respect and teaching your kids to do the same.

 

Again, how you treat others has nothing to do with what class you're in, social or socio-economic. You're referring to whether or not someone HAS "class," which is a completely separate definition (among many) of the word.

[justamouse]

That quiz isn't meant to be used as a scale of social class per se. It was originally published in a book whose author presumed that his readers were nearly all part of the educated upper middle class, or at least tending in that direction. What it's testing for is how much contact and common ground these people have with Americans who aren't part of that class.

 

So, in the author's view, what people are calling being "docked" is actually a desirable thing. Well, sort of. He believes that higher scores for upper middle class people would be a sign of greater social cohesion -- basically, it would mean that they have some personal understanding of the realities of other people's lives and concerns. Though some of those activities he lists (e.g., experiencing hard physical work) have much more inherent value than others. He's not saying that everyone should start watching gross movies and eating at chain restaurants to "save America." :D

 

Hmm, I'm probably not explaining this well. Maybe you have to read the book. :confused:

 

I totally get what you're saying. :D

 

The funny part about taking that was realizing that my brother and I would have scored completely differently.

[justamouse]

I see 'class' and 'classy' as two completely different things.

 

Laura

 

:iagree:

[Scarlett]

Again, how you treat others has nothing to do with what class you're in, social or socio-economic. You're referring to whether or not someone HAS "class," which is a completely separate definition (among many) of the word.

 

:iagree:

[vonfirmath]

Again, how you treat others has nothing to do with what class you're in, social or socio-economic. You're referring to whether or not someone HAS "class," which is a completely separate definition (among many) of the word.

 

*shrug* I don't understand what social class or socio-economic class is then if it doesn't have to do with how you act. Are you trying to say it has something to do with the kind of house you live in and car you drive? Because I know people who make lots of money and you can't tell it from how they live and folks who are about to go bankrupt that "look rich" so I just don't trust that stuff anymore.

[Kathryn]

*shrug* I don't understand what social class or socio-economic class is then if it doesn't have to do with how you act. Are you trying to say it has something to do with the kind of house you live in and car you drive? Because I know people who make lots of money and you can't tell it from how they live and folks who are about to go bankrupt that "look rich" so I just don't trust that stuff anymore.

 

It doesn't matter whether or not you trust it. It exists. In today's society, it's often fluid, but that doesn't make it not real.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/class?s=t

 

I think the OP is working off of definitions like:

 

7. a social stratum sharing basic economic, political, or cultural characteristics, and having the same social position: Artisans form a distinct class in some societies.

 

8. the system of dividing society; caste.

 

9. social rank, especially high rank.

 

 

NOT definitions like:

 

14. Informal . elegance, grace, or dignity, as in dress and behavior: He may be a slob, but his brother has real class.

[ElizaG]

But to know that they do physical labor, eat at chain restaurants, watch TV shows and smoke, a person does not have to do this oneself. That's the point I don't get.

If you do something (or go somewhere) yourself, even just one time, that's a big difference from only having been told about it by someone else. It can give you the beginnings of the sort of familiarity that you can never really get from intellectual knowledge alone.

 

As homeschoolers would say, it's "hands on learning." ;)

[stripe]

But to know that they do physical labor, eat at chain restaurants, watch TV shows and smoke, a person does not have to do this oneself. That's the point I don't get. I am not sure what cooking meals at home, not having a TV and not smoking has to do with class - anybody could choose to do that, irrespective of income or social status.

 

Of course they do. I am not going to pretend to be Charles Murray. He has a purpose in his questionnaire, what he is getting at, which is that he sees two very different lifestyles. As it is summarized on the PBS website, "Murray argues that the super wealthy, super educated and super snobby live in so-called super-ZIPs: cloistered together, with little to no exposure to American culture at large." One could choose to be a nonsmoker or whatever else. But if your experience of life is that most people smoke, even if you do not, that is different for people who only vaguely know that somewhere out there, people smoke. Murray says in the interview, "the degree to which people who grew up in the middle class seal themselves off from that world after they reach the new upper class also varies widely, which is reflected in the wide range of possible scores." So in no way do I see his quiz as "docking" people for experiencing life outside the bubble. Quite the contrary, frankly.

 

I can tell you, I have been blasted on this very forum for suggesting that it is a bit silly for kids to not know what a juicebox is. I got a whole bunch of replies about how the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends less than four ounces of juice per day, and no one these people know ever serves their kid juice, blah blah. It was to the point that I was made out to be Bad Mom and/or a member of the Juice Box Lobby. For the record I give my kids juice boxes probably six times a year, maybe ten. Not exactly a regular mealtime event. They have never tasted soda. But I digress. The point was made, that in these people's social circles, juice is some horrible no-no. In my social circles, juice is the healthy drink, soda or juice drinks the normal ones. A lot of people (gasp) give my kids candy, too. So, while I doubt that any of the moms on here don't comprehend a juice box, there was some major stereotyping and judgments being made based on the issue of a juice box.

[Tutor]

Ugh. My screen is too small. I meant to vote "C and I am from the new world" but it went through as B/ new world.

[justamouse]

The point was made, that in these people's social circles, juice is some horrible no-no. In my social circles, juice is the healthy drink, soda or juice drinks the normal ones. A lot of people (gasp) give my kids candy, too. So, while I doubt that any of the moms on here don't comprehend a juice box, there was some major stereotyping and judgments being made based on the issue of a juice box.

 

The *right* reason to not give kids juiceboxes is because they squeeze them. Duh. :tongue_smilie:

[cathmom]

Lol, somehow I am first generation upper middle class while dh and I are trying to drag ourselves away from the poverty line and celebrate each time we no longer qualify for a government program. :lol: I only know that Jimmie Johnson is a NASCAR driver because you can't have lived in the south for nearly 20 years and not know this!

[Heather in WI]

Hmmm, read Class by Fussell. In his view there are so many things that indicate class that this post makes it hard.

 

I thought this book was so hilarious when I read it a few years ago. I'm not sure if it was meant to be, but I was LOL-ing throughout. :001_smile:

[Thia]

I have not read any of the responses to the question, my opinion is not influenced in any way by other posts.

I'd say the question doesn't deliver enough information. We are told how C spends his money, but none of the others. The answer could be B, despite earning less than C, it's possible that they are the ... there's some term that I can't think of right now...shabby something? So, they have the ways of the well off, even if they can't spend the dough. Then there's C who earns it and spends it in lavish ways.

I guess my answer is C, but it doesn't mean they have true "class."

 

I'm American.

[momma2three]

I have not read any of the responses to the question, my opinion is not influenced in any way by other posts.

I'd say the question doesn't deliver enough information. We are told how C spends his money, but none of the others. The answer could be B, despite earning less than C, it's possible that they are the ... there's some term that I can't think of right now...shabby something? So, they have the ways of the well off, even if they can't spend the dough. Then there's C who earns it and spends it in lavish ways.

I guess my answer is C, but it doesn't mean they have true "class."

 

I'm American.

 

I think you're thinking of genteel poverty :)

 

And I agree. I think the most important thing would be their social milieu, and who they hang around with. And who you hang around with has a lot to do with shared experiences (which is why education is a very key factor in class in America) and shared tastes and just general physical proximity. Despite his lack of education, C's means could easily place him among an upper class circle, and beyond that it's up to his personality. If B had an expensive education, he probably has an upper class support network and group of friends, and it's not like that disappears overnight even if he's in a low-paying job... though it's certainly possible to alienate people. And a low paying job does not necessarily mean a low prestige job.