When bad writing/grammar makes communication difficult

[BrookValley.]

Apologies in advance for what is going to be a rant. :glare: A petty one. But I figured this was a good place to bring a writing/grammar rant.

 

 

I'm taking an online class through our local community college. I'm trying to wrap up my degree as quickly and painlessly (read: inexpensively) as possible, so these classes are a great way for me to knock out my few remaining general education courses. This particular course is a science course and it is entirely online, even the lab component. As such, all communication between instructor and students is done via the web, i.e., in writing.

 

Here's the thing: the instructor's writing is so bad that I am constantly distracted by it. It actually makes reading and understanding basic instructions difficult. The course is not rocket science--pun somewhat intended--so it's all pretty basic. I'm not talking about the occasional typo or mistake here. I'm talking about Every. Single. Sentence.

 

 

I am employed as a technical writer and editor. I make a living by reading, comprehending, and editing written material. I have to be good at decoding an author's intent; it's just what I do. So if I throw in the towel and say it's so bad it makes comprehension difficult, I'm not kidding. I realize my profession might make me a bit more aware of poor grammar than the average person, but really, this isn't about being be nit-picky about the instructor's grammar. It's a science course, not a writing or literature course, and I do like to cut folks slack. After all, I wouldn't want someone judging my every word for perfect grammar. I don't always write perfectly and I don't even always think it's necessary--for example, I don't think it's hill to die on when the writing in question is on a message board on the internet. :tongue_smilie:

 

Am I being a grammar snob if I'm completely and utterly frustrated by craptastical (yeah, I'm using made-up words, I'm that over it) writing by an instructor, even a basic course at the community college level? I don't think so. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a college instructor to be able to effectively convey their intent. It doesn't have to be flawless writing, but it should get the job done, no? My husband thinks I expect too much.

 

 

I am really wasting a lot of time unwrapping words from around the metaphorical axle, and it's wearing my nerves. First-world problems, I know. I shouldn't be so petty. But the snarky part of me wants to write an email to the powers-that-be, telling them they should refund my tuition as payment for all the editing I'm having to do in my head just to understand what the heck this person is trying to communicate.

[Mama2Many4]

I don't know. If grammar isn't his major, then I wouldn't get too upset about it. Yes, it would be nice if he would know basic and proper grammar, but if a doctor could save my life and had terrible writing skills, I would still welcome the help. I know my grammar skills are not always up to par. I try my best to learn from my mistakes though.

[Trilliums]

 

Here's the thing: the instructor's writing is so bad that I am constantly distracted by it. It actually makes reading and understanding basic instructions difficult. The course is not rocket science--pun somewhat intended--so it's all pretty basic. I'm not talking about the occasional typo or mistake here. I'm talking about Every. Single. Sentence.

 

 

I would mention it to the administration.

 

I do not think you are over reacting.

[Guest submarines]

I'd love to see an example. I've encountered bad grammar, but never that bad.

[Dobela]

I would mention it to the administration. Will they have one of those opportunities at the end to rate and comment on the class? I had a college professor once that drove me crazy with her incomplete handouts, errors, and strings of nonsense. Her excuse was always that she ran out of time and could never complete what she needed to complete to give us. I wrote a lengthy review, in a nice tone, at the end of the course and the next year the class changed dramatically.

[BrookValley.]

I don't know. If grammar isn't his major, then I wouldn't get too upset about it. Yes, it would be nice if he would know basic and proper grammar, but if a doctor could save my life and had terrible writing skills, I would still welcome the help. I know my grammar skills are not always up to par. I try my best to learn from my mistakes though.

 

Oh, I'm definitely not upset about bad grammar. I agree with you. Like I said, it's a science course, not a writing course. My main issue is that the writing is actually hard to understand because it is so poor. I think someone teaching an online class, where they have to communicate only via writing, should be able to get their intent across clearly. Not perfectly, but well enough that I don't have to double-back every other sentence and make sure I'm understanding what is expected. That's what I'm frustrated about.

[Mama2Many4]

Oh, I'm definitely not upset about bad grammar. I agree with you. Like I said, it's a science course, not a writing course. My main issue is that the writing is actually hard to understand because it is so poor. I think someone teaching an online class, where they have to communicate only via writing, should be able to get their intent across clearly. Not perfectly, but well enough that I don't have to double-back every other sentence and make sure I'm understanding what is expected. That's what I'm frustrated about.

 

Wow! This sounds pretty bad though. I've never known anyone to be that poor at writing and I too would love to see a sample. :D

[Dobela]

Oh, I'm definitely not upset about bad grammar. I agree with you. Like I said, it's a science course, not a writing course. My main issue is that the writing is actually hard to understand because it is so poor. I think someone teaching an online class, where they have to communicate only via writing, should be able to get their intent across clearly. Not perfectly, but well enough that I don't have to double-back every other sentence and make sure I'm understanding what is expected. That's what I'm frustrated about.

I agree and think that you should save samples to share with administrators.

[justamouse]

I think, if you truly wanted us to sympathize, we would need to see this example of bad grammar. It's your duty as an educator. :D;)

 

Pretty please? :D

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

If it's really that difficult to interpret and comprehend, then I'd bring it up with the instructor himself before I bring it up with the administration. I'd ask him directly for clarification and let him know that his original wording was unclear.

[Kirch]

IMO, anyone who is hired as an instructor for a community college class should be competent enough in written communication to allow his/her students to figure out what's going on. If he's not, how in the world did he ever earn his *own* degree, much less get hired?? I agree that you should let the administration know--his incompetence reflects on the institution.

[BrookValley.]

Am I wrong to not want to copy and paste a chunk because I can be discovered online by my screen name? That may be overly paranoid of me, but local people could figure me out by my screen name. I'm truly not trying to be a jerk to the instructor, but I am frustrated.

 

It's a combination of lack of punctuation, poorly constructed sentences, and straight up missing or conflicting information. A general example: we were asked to "go through eachroom in your home as directed For each area identify all...some of you may not have all six areas. Simply enter the phrase not applicabl next to it."

 

I snipped part of that, but you should get the point. Yes, I can figure out what that means, but it is distracting. More distracting is that the magical "six areas" are not listed anywhere in the assignment. I have no idea what six rooms they are talking about. Sure, I could guess, but it sounds like they intended something specific. If it were one instance, it would be no biggie. But the above example is pretty much what it is throughout. Also, there is conflicting information. In the discussion area for the course (sort of like a message board, for the purpose of class "discussion" between students because there is no face-to-face) we were told that we must post a minimum of five responses to other's posts to get full credit for participation in each discussion; in the FAQ for the course it says there is no minimum, that we are graded on quality, not quantity; and in the grading rubric in the syllabus it says that the minimum for full credit is 3. :confused: Again, these inconsistencies are throughout.

[BrookValley.]

I actually want to like the course, and I actually think I would find the instructor an interesting and intelligent individual...in person. The poor written communication is ruining it!

[Guest submarines]

Am I wrong to not want to copy and paste a chunk because I can be discovered online by my screen name? That may be overly paranoid of me, but local people could figure me out by my screen name. I'm truly not trying to be a jerk to the instructor, but I am frustrated.

 

It's a combination of lack of punctuation, poorly constructed sentences, and straight up missing or conflicting information. A general example: we were asked to "go through eachroom in your home as directed For each area identify all...some of you may not have all six areas. Simply enter the phrase not applicabl next to it."

 

I snipped part of that, but you should get the point. Yes, I can figure out what that means, but it is distracting. More distracting is that the magical "six areas" are not listed anywhere in the assignment. I have no idea what six rooms they are talking about. Sure, I could guess, but it sounds like they intended something specific. If it were one instance, it would be no biggie. But the above example is pretty much what it is throughout. Also, there is conflicting information. In the discussion area for the course (sort of like a message board, for the purpose of class "discussion" between students because there is no face-to-face) we were told that we must post a minimum of five responses to other's posts to get full credit for participation in each discussion; in the FAQ for the course it says there is no minimum, that we are graded on quality, not quantity; and in the grading rubric in the syllabus it says that the minimum for full credit is 3. :confused: Again, these inconsistencies are throughout.

 

This does sound pretty bad. I'd be frustrated too.

 

Can you bring up the inconsistencies on the discussion forum?

[Snickerdoodle]

Is this person a foreign trained professional with English as a second language?

[Trilliums]

Is this person a foreign trained professional with English as a second language?

 

 

I was wondering this too. Seems likely from the snippet OP provided.

 

I also would encourage you to contact the instructor, but it probably will not achieve much. Maybe they can get him/her a translator. :) I knew a few foreign grad students who had translators for classes they taught.

[BrookValley.]

Is this person a foreign trained professional with English as a second language?

 

While I cannot say no for certain, based on the instructor's bio I would say that this is very unlikely.

 

ETA: I actually contacted the instructor a couple days ago for clarification on something. I haven't yet received a response. Also, I know tone is often lost over the web, but in many ways they seem unapproachable. I think the lecture notes and whatnot are interesting and there's good information there, once I get past the writing, hence my comment that I think this person is intelligent and interesting. However, in the syllabus and FAQ there's a lot of "this is how it is and I don't want to hear any BS...I've been doing this a lot longer than you have" (actually, "I've been doing this a lot longer than you have, and I know what's on the web" is nearly a direct quote fom an assignment) type comments. I don't know how far I'd get if I contacted them to explain, even gently, that I think the written materials and instruction need some clarification.

 

Also, to answer an earlier question: none of my recent online classes have offered an evaluation at the conclusion. I'm wondering if this institution doesn't offer them? Maybe I have to look harder on the online platform used for the courses, perhaps it's linked somewhere. I would like to leave some feedback (hopefully constructive) once the course is finished.

Edited September 18, 2012 by BrookValley

[Trilliums]

While I cannot say no for certain, based on the instructor's bio I would say that this is very unlikely.

 

 

Hm...maybe they are posting from a phone?

:lol:

 

 

 

Sounds frustrating. :grouphug: I hope you can finish up the class without too many problems.

[Word Nerd]

If it's really that difficult to interpret and comprehend, then I'd bring it up with the instructor himself before I bring it up with the administration. I'd ask him directly for clarification and let him know that his original wording was unclear.

:iagree:

[sleeplessnights]

I had this same problem when we bought our first house in Texas. Our buyers agent was very knowledgeable and professional, but the documents put out by her office were almost unintelligible. At closing I gave her back her documents with corrections and offered my editing services in the future, if desired.

 

Even if the individual is well-regarded, poor grammar and spelling make you look like a dunce! I would be embarrassed if it was due to lack of attention (and unprofessional), and I would be embarrassed if it was due to lack of elementary education.

 

I could understand if English was his second language, but it sounds like he doesn't care about his job enough to read back through his postings. I'd complain the college dean and ask for my money back.

[BrookValley.]

Hm...maybe they are posting from a phone?

:lol:

 

 

 

Sounds frustrating. :grouphug: I hope you can finish up the class without too many problems.

 

:lol: That would be something.

 

Someone else mentioned postings...just to be clear, the issue is with a lot of the materials for the class--pre-written "lectures" and whatnot. I am assuming these things have been recycled from other classes (this person has taught this class several times). It's not brief postings to the discussion area or anything on-the-fly or in real time. So, things that should have been well thought-out and proofread. The content seems well thought-out, it's just the delivery. lol. Actually, the instructor does not post to the discussion area, just the students. They just provide the parent thread for discussion topics.

[BrookValley.]

I had this same problem when we bought our first house in Texas. Our buyers agent was very knowledgeable and professional, but the documents put out by her office were almost unintelligible. At closing I gave her back her documents with corrections and offered my editing services in the future, if desired.

 

Even if the individual is well-regarded, poor grammar and spelling make you look like a dunce! I would be embarrassed if it was due to lack of attention (and unprofessional), and I would be embarrassed if it was due to lack of elementary education.

 

I could understand if English was his second language, but it sounds like he doesn't care about his job enough to read back through his postings. I'd complain the college dean and ask for my money back.

 

Oh, wow! Yeah, that's no good. I mean, we're talking about legally binding documents regarding the sale of a house! I understand that not everyone is good at writing. That is so totally ok. As my husband and I like to say, "we can't math." :lol: Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. But at least have someone you trust look over things for you! There's no shame in that. I agree, in a business situation it marks you as unprofessional, even if you're really great at providing whatever service you are providing. Get someone on board who can clean up written materials for you. That's what I do for the company I work for!

[Jean in Newcastle]

No matter what the subject matter, an instructor's job is to communicate. Proper communication requires proper grammar and consistency in what is communicated.

[Laura Corin]

So if I throw in the towel and say it's so bad it makes comprehension difficult, I'm not kidding.

 

...then I don't think you are overreacting.

 

We received a letter from the boys' school, to which we had applied for a temporary remission of fees, that was so badly written that we could not work out if we were being offered a repayable loan or a non-repayable discount. It was quite embarrassing having to clarify.

 

Laura

[Unicorn.]

Since it's not a foreign translation issue, It almost seems as if it were a cut and paste issue, and nobody bothered to proofread the material. Almost like he doesn't really exist. Like some body somewhere was hired to slap some stuff together from other people's notes.