S/O Wedding: Marriage Advice

[Hunter's Moon]

Fiance and I are going to sit down and make a list of things important to us in our marriage.

 

For example, If we argue over something for more than 15 minutes, we'll drop it, cool off, and try again later. Or, arguing on the topic and not bringing up the past.

 

Any advice along those lines you would suggest?

 

:001_smile:

[amy g.]

Dh and I did an engaged encounter weekend through the Catholic church.

 

Much of it was putting in writing our expectations such as where we would spend holidays and how we would raise our children.

 

I was so happy that we put everything in writing. During a disagreement, I've been known to ask, "Do I need to go get the notebook?"

 

I'm so thankful that I included that I expected to be able to name all of our children whatever I wanted. We might have ended up divorced otherwise.

[Chris in VA]

I would consider going thru a premarital counseling weekend. It will teach you all sorts of things, and open up conversations between you.

 

My dh is a minister. In his sessions with couples, he gives them the Myers-Briggs test (it's a great way to discover how you and your spouse are alike and different, as well as how you relate to the world, and can be such a great tool), he discusses with them how their parents dealt with conflict and money, teaches them some communication strategies, and gives them the low down on the spiritual side of marriage.

 

Marriage is so much more about the lifetime than the "One Special Day!" But you know that.

 

Even if your premarital counseling can't be finished before the wedding, it's still worth it to continue until you've covered those major areas.

 

Hugs to you! An exciting time!

[lea1]

I would consider going thru a premarital counseling weekend. It will teach you all sorts of things, and open up conversations between you.

 

My dh is a minister. In his sessions with couples, he gives them the Myers-Briggs test (it's a great way to discover how you and your spouse are alike and different, as well as how you relate to the world, and can be such a great tool), he discusses with them how their parents dealt with conflict and money, teaches them some communication strategies, and gives them the low down on the spiritual side of marriage.

 

Marriage is so much more about the lifetime than the "One Special Day!" But you know that.

 

Even if your premarital counseling can't be finished before the wedding, it's still worth it to continue until you've covered those major areas.

 

Hugs to you! An exciting time!

 

:iagree: It is a great thing to do. My husband and I also went through a longer course with a couple who had been married forever and had 'counseled' many other engaged couples. It was also very helpful. Probably one of the most helpful things we had to do was prepare a joint budget and discuss in detail how we would manage our money.

[Dobela]

Just remember that you will both change. Your expectations will change. Your hopes will change. Your dreams will change. But not necessarily at the same time. I am not the same woman my husband married back in 1998. He is not the same man. There will be times when you are at different points, vastly different points, in the same marriage. Add in fatigue, money problems, health problems and money issues and that 'only fight for 15 minutes' rule may not work. As the marriage evolves, your methods evolve. That is where commitment comes in play.

[Heather in Neverland]

How many children and when (God willing)

 

Who will handle the finances

 

How will housework and childcare be divided

 

Thoughts on discipline for children

 

Religion issues

 

Where you are willing to live and not live

 

 

I know couples who have divorced for each of the above reasons so these seem like important topics to me.

 

 

.

[Melissa in Australia]

How many children and when (God willing)

 

Who will handle the finances

 

How will housework and childcare be divided

 

Thoughts on discipline for children

 

Religion issues

 

Where you are willing to live and not live

 

 

I know couples who have divorced for each of the above reasons so these seem like important topics to me.

 

 

.

:iagree:

I would also add things like clear views of where you both stand on things like Drug use.

Sometimes you think something is obvious and you are both on the same page, and find out later that you really didn't know your spouses view, just thought you did.

[justamouse]

Go through Pre-Cana if you can. They really bring up stuff that will split you up and you'd be surprised what you never knew about your intended.

 

Do you want children? How many? What if you have more? Less? How do you feel about adoption?

 

Who will take care of the bank account? Is one a spender? A saver? THe best bet is to sit down, make a budget together, and stick to it. Discuss all larger purchases, and give each other some mad $ that neither of you are accountable to the other for.

 

How was he raised? LOOK at his parents. He will have absorbed their parenting, unless he made a direct decision to not. Look at your parents-the same goes for you. Discuss what kind of parents you hope to be. Discuss what you don't want, what is off the table.

 

What will your roles be? If kids come a long, will those roles change?

 

What are our dreams? This can be huge, and sometimes it can separate a marriage when one wants to be an oceanographer in Australia, and the other gets sea sick.

 

How do you handle anger and disappointment? Do you stomp off and give the silent treatment? Yell and scream? How will you handle conflict? How did your parents handle conflict?

Edited September 18, 2012 by justamouse

[fairfarmhand]

Want to have a big fight?

 

talk about what Christmas, Easter and Thanksgiving is going to look like.

 

These are the things that can lead to MAJOR stress the first 2-3 years of marriage. But they arre VERY important.

 

Decide how the holidays will be spent and what is most important to each of you.

 

Talk about how often you will see the in-laws. Talk about how involved the extended family will be in your lives.

[QueenCat]

Just remember that you will both change. Your expectations will change. Your hopes will change. Your dreams will change. But not necessarily at the same time. I am not the same woman my husband married back in 1998. He is not the same man. There will be times when you are at different points, vastly different points, in the same marriage. Add in fatigue, money problems, health problems and money issues and that 'only fight for 15 minutes' rule may not work. As the marriage evolves, your methods evolve. That is where commitment comes in play.

 

:iagree:Well said. Because people change, what was important when you first discussed big issues may change. One of you may have been find with the other making decisions in certain areas because it didn't matter much to the one, but then things changed as you grew, and it suddenly does (meaning you have to renegotiate what happens in these situations).

[fairfarmhand]

Just remember that you will both change. Your expectations will change. Your hopes will change. Your dreams will change. But not necessarily at the same time. I am not the same woman my husband married back in 1998. He is not the same man. There will be times when you are at different points, vastly different points, in the same marriage. Add in fatigue, money problems, health problems and money issues and that 'only fight for 15 minutes' rule may not work. As the marriage evolves, your methods evolve. That is where commitment comes in play.

Just remember to be OPEN when your thought processes change. If your mindset is beginning to turn, you must let one another know what's going on.

[elegantlion]

Just remember that you will both change. Your expectations will change. Your hopes will change. Your dreams will change. But not necessarily at the same time. I am not the same woman my husband married back in 1998. He is not the same man. There will be times when you are at different points, vastly different points, in the same marriage. Add in fatigue, money problems, health problems and money issues and that 'only fight for 15 minutes' rule may not work. As the marriage evolves, your methods evolve. That is where commitment comes in play.

 

:iagree: Learn to speak well to each other.

 

Know his weaknesses and never exploit them when he's down. IOW, don't dig into him where it hurts.

 

Never use "always" or "never" in a fight in a negative way.

 

He is not your father. You are not your mother. Your relationship will evolve differently because you are two unique and wonderful people.

 

Do things together. Explore his hobbies with him, explore your hobbies with him. You will find hobbies to do on your own and that's okay too. Don't forget you are still TWO people. It's easy to lose yourself in marriage sometimes, by bending everything you are and want to do to accommodate his hobbies and goals.

 

Learn how to discuss money together.

 

Write love notes on the bathroom mirror when they fog up

 

When you have your own place, you may discover different habits of cleaning. Dh and I went through a long phase of where the dirty dishes belong. He was raised to keep them on the counter so the sink would be usable. I was raised to leave them in the sink so the counter would be usable. We had some stupid discussions over that one. He still leaves them on the counter, ds leaves them in the sink, and I put them in the sink. He may think he's right, but now he's outnumbered. :lol:

 

Sometimes you go to bed mad. We are two very stubborn people and we were told to never go to bed mad. In the early days, that cost us a lot of plates. Now we don't fight like that, but sometimes I sleep on my....I can't even say it's anger anymore. It's more miscommunication.

 

There will be times in your marriage when he steps up to the plate for you, he may be your rock, do the same for him. Dh and I have been through a lot, but I always know he has my back.

[Mama Geek]

Don't discuss your marital problems with your family. It is much harder for them to forgive even after you have forgiven.

 

While living with your family in particular, have important discussions in private. If you and your spouse agree with getting advice from your parents only then do you get them involved.

 

I would try to be really cautious with living at home right after being married. I think that is going to be much more difficult than any issues with your young age. By the way I got married when I was 20.

 

I have seen so many marriages have major problems or fail because of family being to involved in what is going on.

[mirth]

I would want to see a listing (a balance sheet, if you will) of the other's assets and debts. If for example, each of you is net $50,000 in the hole from credit card debts, you have to imagine that it will be awhile before you can (or should) save money for the future.

[tabinfl]

#1 in my book is committment. My husband and I have had some horrendous arguments, and some periods of barely interacting, but the one promise we can count on is that, short of physical abuse or the like, neither of us will give up on our marriage. We've both been around the block before, both abandoned by people who found the grass greener elsewhere, so this is our bedrock.

 

I find it interesting that few of our arguments are over the big things -- money, kids, religion, politics, and so on. As we went through the adoption process for our twins, we had to discuss and answer questions about our family histories and hypotheticals about how we would raise children, and we learned a few things about each other there.

 

No, our worst fights start over something trivial that sets one of us off at the end of a bad day or stressful week. We've handled each other's gradual shifts on those major issues gracefully, but if the kids have been monsters all day and he picks up the wrong brand of butter at the supermarket, or if I call him at work with something trivial when he's in the middle of a tense situation there, look out! :tongue_smilie:

 

Another thing I'd put on the list is to leave the past in the past. Regardless of what you're arguing about, bringing up a laundry list of what the other spouse has done wrong in the past week or year is a no-no. In fact, I think agreeing on a small set of rules for "fighting fair" has been far more important to us than agreeing on any of the specifics of our family life. The latter often change over time, but the former makes sure you don't destroy the marriage when negotiating those changes.

[Dobela]

Don't discuss your marital problems with your family. It is much harder for them to forgive even after you have forgiven.

 

While living with your family in particular, have important discussions in private. If you and your spouse agree with getting advice from your parents only then do you get them involved.

 

I would try to be really cautious with living at home right after being married. I think that is going to be much more difficult than any issues with your young age. By the way I got married when I was 20.

 

I have seen so many marriages have major problems or fail because of family being to involved in what is going on.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I made the mistake of talking to my mom about minor frustrations when I was a newly married person and 15 years later she still holds those things as a grude against my dh. I didn't realize until I married just how many grudges she could hold. Or how many wrong assumptions can be made off an innocent comment. If you are having a difficult time, you need to find a friend or better yet, a church leader you can go to. You also need to be as independent as possible, as soon as possible, from family. If you don't, then that creates other resentments and problems. I learned the hard way though that 'don't say anything unless you can say something nice' definately applies to how I speak about my dh around anyone else.

 

I also like the holiday discussion. It wasn't a big deal until we had kids. Then, where we stayed for holidays became a big deal. When we decided that we wanted to spend Christmas morning just by ourselves with our kids, then visit family in the days before or after, it was crazy how upset extended family members became.

[Harriet Vane]

Echoing what the others said--a marriage counseling weekend can be a great way to hammer some of this stuff out.

 

One, essential addition I would add:

 

Hammer out with fiance how you, as a couple, will coexist with your parents in your home since you will all be living together for a while.

 

Ask your parents to do the same.

 

You want to consider issues like chores, purchase of food or other resources, water usage and bathroom time, PERSONAL SPACE and how that space is maintained, laundry, meals together and cooking, etc.

 

Then, come together in one meeting and compare notes and negotiate an agreement.

 

Agree to revisit the agreement every 3-4 months and allow for either side to air grievances.

 

It's sooooooo much better to establish, right from the start, open communication with your housemates. Everything changes when you bring a new person into the mix, even though fiance has been your boyfriend for five years.

[SailorMom]

All of the above :grouphug:

 

Maybe I'm repeating here, but....

Remember it isn't a competition between the two of you. I know this sounds silly to you now, but trust me,,,, 5 years down the road you'll start having this subconscious tally of all the things you do and what he does, who spent more, who said something nicer, who does more romantic stuff....

Don't do it!

You're in this together. Always remember that. You two are the only people who will ever really have each other's back - so don't let that slide because of everyday stresses.

When you're mad about the finances, about him maybe letting himself gain 10 lbs and not eating right, about him not backing you up with a child or relative, etc., remember that you love HIM, that the most important thing you can do for your marriage is to love him NO MATTER WHAT. Nothing else really matters in the long run. Does it really matter who was right about what the other person said three days ago about the laundry or the check to the Boy Scouts? Nope.....

Make time for each other. Always.

It's the little things that count - both in good ways and bad.

Read The Five Love Languages together as soon as you can :)

[Heather in Neverland]

Agree in advance to only argue in private. Arguing in front of your children makes them feel insecure. Arguing in front of other people makes them feel uncomfortable and it's rude. My brother and his wife get in knock-down-drag-out arguments in front of people all the time and it is so tacky.

 

Also, agree not to undermine one another in front of the children.

 

And I totally agree with not letting your extended families have too much influence in your marriage.

[Heather in Neverland]

Read The Five Love Languages together as soon as you can :)

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

Definitely! You HAVE to read that book!

[fairfarmhand]

remember that your marriage will not look like anyone else's. And that is WONDERFUL! What works for some people will be a miserable failure for you. Marriage books are great, but think of them as a list of suggestions to try.

[elfgivas]

 

My dh is a minister. In his sessions with couples, he gives them the Myers-Briggs test (it's a great way to discover how you and your spouse are alike and different, as well as how you relate to the world, and can be such a great tool), he discusses with them how their parents dealt with conflict and money, teaches them some communication strategies, and gives them the low down on the spiritual side of marriage.

 

Marriage is so much more about the lifetime than the "One Special Day!" But you know that.

 

Even if your premarital counseling can't be finished before the wedding, it's still worth it to continue until you've covered those major areas.

 

Hugs to you! An exciting time!

 

:iagree:

 

myers-briggs is one of the most useful things i've ever discovered. i still use it, and use it with my kids, too. knowing how I work best (as an enfp) and what my strengths and potential pitfalls are has helped me so much to grow as a person. (doesn't that just sound like a cliche, but in this one instance, it has helped my "emotional maturity" journey more than just about anything else). then, i can go from there to observe how my dh and dc behave, and how that ties in to their personality types, and what i can do to strengthen our relationships.

 

i just typed a lot and its gone :confused::confused:.

but it was about developing little daily habits that help weave you together. every morning before my dad left for work, my mom would stop whatever she was doing and kiss him goodbye. every night when he got home she would stop whatever she was doing and kiss him hello, and say something positive, even just "welcome home". it meant that their leavings and beginnings started on a positive note. it took her less than a minute a day to do this, but made such a difference. now i am absolutely positive that she didn't always feel like doing it or like being positive, but it was a positive habit that helped glue them together..... dh and i do that, too, and its wonderful. we've also started having a glass of wine "on the veranda" after dinner some evenings, and talking, just the two of us. and now, we've added in walking thru the garden with our coffee in the mornings. sometimes its only two minutes, and sometimes its before 6am, but i drag my body out there. again, it is so worth it, because it reminds us both that we really value one another. so i'd spend some time just noticing how your families of origin do the little things, and then thinking about how you'd like to do them.

 

and then we have rules to live by. one of those for me is that dh is a competent adult who i trust, so if he decides to load the dishwasher, he gets to do it however he wants. really. no comments from me, no "helpful" advice, just thanks. this came out of me watching his dear mom interact with her dh, and with her kids.... and i decided i would not micro manage him. and that has made all the difference.

 

its such a joyous time....

ann

[vonfirmath]

All of the above :grouphug:

 

Maybe I'm repeating here, but....

Remember it isn't a competition between the two of you. I know this sounds silly to you now, but trust me,,,, 5 years down the road you'll start having this subconscious tally of all the things you do and what he does, who spent more, who said something nicer, who does more romantic stuff....

Don't do it!

 

On this vein: Marriage is not "50-50" -- the only way marriage works is if you are each giving 100-100. Because that way if someone is having a down time in life, it still works. when marriage is 50-50 and someone is having a down period, it all falls apart because each person is looking for their "fair share"

 

One of the most useful things we did early in our marriage is go through a study of Love and respect by Emerson and Sarah Eggerichs. It has been very healthy for the way we argue, as well as realizing when we are being unrealistic in our expecations of each other. Oh and realizing, when at my angriest, who this man was I married. Even if he doesn't seem to be acting like it at the moment.

[Beth S]

Many have recommended pre-marital counseling, usually with the minister who is officiating, or some older married couple who you both trust. (Who is NOT your parent!)

 

Please try to continue POST-marital counseling!

 

You will both be utterly shocked at what you didn't know about the other--even though you've been together 5 years.

 

You will both be utterly shocked at the amount of forgiveness, patience, unselfishness, hard work AND fun which marriage brings.

 

You are rather young, and will have challenges in controlling your emotions (tears for the bride, anger for the groom).

 

Living with your parents will add at least 50% more pressure on you. You will have less autonomy, less wiggle room for privately working out your differences. I would live on Ramen noodles in a tent instead. :001_smile:

 

But we do know that this is a reality for many young couples.

 

At least keep all this advice handy for AFTER the wedding! Everyone thinks they made a mistake in getting married--the victory is in overcoming those feelings and staying together! :001_smile:

Edited September 18, 2012 by Beth S

[SailorMom]

On this vein: Marriage is not "50-50" -- the only way marriage works is if you are each giving 100-100. Because that way if someone is having a down time in life, it still works. when marriage is 50-50 and someone is having a down period, it all falls apart because each person is looking for their "fair share"

 

 

Oh - I am so using your words. Fair warning, vonfirmath, I will be plagiarizing :)

[BakersDozen]

I'm so thankful that I included that I expected to be able to name all of our children whatever I wanted. We might have ended up divorced otherwise.

We have this agreement as well! It saved us from some serious disagreements (and our boys being named Bob and Ed, our girls being named after old girlfriends :glare:).

 

My #1 piece of marriage advice: Replace expect with accept.

 

My #2 piece of marriage advice: Not wrong, just different.

 

One of the most useful things we did early in our marriage is go through a study of Love and respect by Emerson and Sarah Eggerichs.

:iagree: And I'm one who really detests most programs/books/classes like this. If nothing else, watch/read/listen to the last session. It had both dh and I in tears. Basically he admonishes couples to envision Jesus standing behind your spouse's shoulder when you are looking at your spouse accusingly or angrily, and Jesus is saying, "Look at Me...no, look at Me!" Our issues are so often about our own shortcomings and not so much about our spouse; looking at the One who created our spouse and who brought us together can serve to place focus where it should be. Very powerful speaker with a fabulous message.

[GWOB]

Definitely discuss the big things- kids, money, careers, living arrangements.

 

But like a pp mentioned, the biggest fight dh and I had was over a desk. Yep, a desk. I told him how to put it together and he ignored me. He thought I thought he wasn't smart enough to put the desk together. I thought he thought I wasn't smart to offer an opinion. It was the biggest, dumbest fight ever.

 

So make sure you know how to talk to him and he knows how to talk to you. Communication (effective, honest, productive communication) really is the key. It really does matter. Everything can be worked through if you know how to speak and listen to one another.

 

A few more nuggets-

 

- unless he is a Vulcan, he cannot read your mind. You have to tell him what you want.

 

- talk about teA. Don't get weird about it. Talk about likes/dislikes/expectations.

 

- you and your fiancé are the only people in your marriage. Period.

 

Best wishes!

[vonfirmath]

Oh - I am so using your words. Fair warning, vonfirmath, I will be plagiarizing :)

 

Go ahead. I'm just summarizing from stuff we were taught earlier so it isn't mine anyway!

[CalicoKat]

No important decisions after 10 p.m.

 

It a tired, emotional, and unproductive hour.

[Little Nyssa]

I also recommend doing a pre-marriage counselling program.

 

Also: find out what the flashpoints are that can make you mad at each other, and find a way to deal with them. I'm not talking about major things. I'm talking about small things that can wreak havok if you let annoyances build up. Everyday things.

 

For example, for us we are not good when it comes to packing for a trip. We run around getting frustrated with each other. So we made a computerized packing list that we use everytime we pack. It has everything we might need in categories and places to check off.

 

And, putting up a Xmas tree. Sometimes if you are trying to get the tree up and you want the holiday to be perfect and the other person just WILL not hold it straight, it produces stress which is not so fun. There's a brand of Xmas tree holder (if you don't have Xmas trees, apply this to some other holiday situation) which is really easy to put the tree into so that it stands up nicely. I have even heard it called "the marriage-saver"!

 

And, try driving someplace new, and one of you drives while the other navigates-- by paper map, not GPS. See how you do and if you get frustrated with each other, and learn how to accomplish this task together and how to relate to each other and give/take directions gracefully.

 

I hope these examples do not seem too mundane. When you are young and in love, you think that love will overcome all such petty things. But actually life is composed of petty things. And it's the little things that build up and make major issues harder to deal with. If you've been nice to each other lately in your marriage, it is easier to stay on the same page when you are faced with some kind of challenge.

[bobbeym]

Such excellent advice everyone has shared. I feel like I should pin this thread so I can refer my own kids to it someday. :)

 

One thing I want to add is to talk about the little quirks and habits that you both have that have the potential to drive you nuts.

 

Leaving wet towels on the bed, only using a towel once, dirty socks laying wherever they were removed, how the alarm should be set, painting your nails in the living room, etc.

[momto10blessings]

I would add "Husband will NEVER eat food in front of wife in delivery room. He will also NEVER EVER say a word about how he is hungry while in the delivery room"

[sbgrace]

I'm going to suggest that you put the time and effort into learning skills to carry you through the bumps and bruises that will come. There's nothing wrong with discussing the expecations/these things now or even agreeing on key points but you two are going to change and new things will come up that you couldn't prepare for. This is especially true of those who marry young (we did). Both of you will change a lot. If you both had parents who modeled wonderfully healthy marriages you may not need work. But for most people I think we could learn better ways of doing marriage than what we saw. That's true even when the home was pretty solid I think.

 

If you have someone good premarital counseling or a week-end could be good. There are a couple of books that have exercises to go through. They are aimed toward the married but you will be soon. I really love these books--they are better than most counseling I've ever seen. You'll learn communication techniques and what to do/not do to make your successful. You could learn these things ahead of the marriage. Finding the Love you Want has a wonderful communication technique you could practice now for example. The Seven Principles is an easy read and you could start from the beginning without the things that undermine your success.

 

The Seven Principles For Making Marriage Work by Gottman

 

Getting the Love You Want by Hendrix

Edited September 18, 2012 by sbgrace

[UmMusa]

i just stumbled on this from September, but WOW... great words of advice. Some timely reminders for my 14-years-married-self.

[imagine.more]

Lol, yes this! We still fight about this every single year 6 years later, ugh!

 

Want to have a big fight?

 

talk about what Christmas, Easter and Thanksgiving is going to look like.

 

These are the things that can lead to MAJOR stress the first 2-3 years of marriage. But they arre VERY important.

 

Decide how the holidays will be spent and what is most important to each of you.

 

Talk about how often you will see the in-laws. Talk about how involved the extended family will be in your lives.

[Danestress]

I am always perplexed by these threads.

 

I'm so glad that DH and I, at age 26 and 33 respectively, didn't hash out "deals" that either one of us would be stuck with for life because "that is what we agreed to."

 

We have been married 20 years, and over time we have changed. Our hopes, dreams, and expectations have changed. We know each other better, know ourselves better, love each other more, and are just different people in some ways. Some things we have gone through I would never have anticipated, and I am so glad that we have sort of rolled with the punches instead of trying to memorialize an agreement and then enforce it for life. Ironically, we are both attorneys, so if we HAD made a quasi-contract, it probably would have been thorough. But I don't like that rigidity. I'm not saying it's not great for someone else to come up with rules like the ones you are considering, but it would have seemed artificial and annoying to me and to DH.

 

I think my advice would just be to think about whatever vows you take you are taking them, and take them seriously. Things like "who does the finances" or "where to spend Christmas" can change. Be flexible. Accept change. Things like, "Love, honor and cherish" shouldn't need to change. I am not flexible about faithfulness, love, putting each other first. I am flexible about who takes out the garbage and whether we should talk through a problem or sleep on it.

 

I didn't know when we married where we would end up living, how many children we would have, what our financial situation would be like, or who would make various decisions. To me, marriage is an act of faith. I had faith that the two of us would behave honorably, love each other, and work out problems. And we have.

[TranquilMind]

Fiance and I are going to sit down and make a list of things important to us in our marriage.

 

For example, If we argue over something for more than 15 minutes, we'll drop it, cool off, and try again later. Or, arguing on the topic and not bringing up the past.

 

Any advice along those lines you would suggest?

 

:001_smile:

 

I have no advice regarding methods.

 

But I will say that whatever annoys you now will drive you bonkers when you are married, so make sure he is a guy with whom you do not have a stressful relationship in any way now.

 

Make sure you don't have any resentment or ongoing arguments now, that you both handle money in the same way, and that you agree on everything major or important in reference to raising children, religious practices and faith, time with friends, and inlaws. Fighting before marriage = major war after marriage.

 

That's all I've got off the top of my head, but these are the things that will wreck a marriage.

[TranquilMind]

I am always perplexed by these threads.

 

I'm so glad that DH and I, at age 26 and 33 respectively, didn't hash out "deals" that either one of us would be stuck with for life because "that is what we agreed to."

 

We have been married 20 years, and over time we have changed. Our hopes, dreams, and expectations have changed. We know each other better, know ourselves better, love each other more, and are just different people in some ways. Some things we have gone through I would never have anticipated, and I am so glad that we have sort of rolled with the punches instead of trying to memorialize an agreement and then enforce it for life. Ironically, we are both attorneys, so if we HAD made a quasi-contract, it probably would have been thorough. But I don't like that rigidity. I'm not saying it's not great for someone else to come up with rules like the ones you are considering, but it would have seemed artificial and annoying to me and to DH.

 

I think my advice would just be to think about whatever vows you take you are taking them, and take them seriously. Things like "who does the finances" or "where to spend Christmas" can change. Be flexible. Accept change. Things like, "Love, honor and cherish" shouldn't need to change. I am not flexible about faithfulness, love, putting each other first. I am flexible about who takes out the garbage and whether we should talk through a problem or sleep on it.

 

I didn't know when we married where we would end up living, how many children we would have, what our financial situation would be like, or who would make various decisions. To me, marriage is an act of faith. I had faith that the two of us would behave honorably, love each other, and work out problems. And we have.

 

I agree with this, actually. Good summation.

[Rosie_0801]

I think it is a good idea to have all those conversations about where to spend Christmas. Obviously the answers should be accepted as the current plan- subject to change, but those conversations tell a lot about the other's assumptions. It's good to meet those assumptions asap so they can be negotiated. It's much easier to negotiate the known. Having faith the other will behave honourably is great if your honour works the same way as his.

[Audrey]

My advice would be to not write out "deals" or "agreements." People grow and change. Life happens and changes things. Life doesn't acknowledge your deals or agreements.

 

Instead, talk.

 

Talk about anything, everything. Talk everyday.

 

And, remember that human beings are frail things really. Remember that no matter how tough he seems, he is allowed to be human, too. Remember that no matter how tough you think you are, you need to be human, too.

[Danestress]

I think it is a good idea to have all those conversations about where to spend Christmas. Obviously the answers should be accepted as the current plan- subject to change, but those conversations tell a lot about the other's assumptions. It's good to meet those assumptions asap so they can be negotiated. It's much easier to negotiate the known. Having faith the other will behave honourably is great if your honour works the same way as his.

 

Well, yes, of course "talking" about things like housework and holidays and how often to see in-laws is great.

 

It's making a list of rules about these things and expecting to enforce them through decades of marriage that seems wrong headed to me. But what works for others works. It only has to work for the two parties involved, right?

 

I think if there are issues of honor, a list of rules will tend to not be a safeguard. But that is just my experience. I'm really glad DH doesn't come to me in an argument and say, "look, here is the contract. It says we can only talk about for 15 minutes and then we have to take a break, so that's the rule." But you know, something like that might prevent bigger problems for someone with a different personality than mine. So I am not saying never to do it. I just don't think it is necessary for most people, and could be counter productive for some. If we had done that, I am sure the "list" would seem hilarious to us now.

[Hunter's Moon]

On my iPod touch, do a bit hard to quote.

 

When I said argue for 15 minutes and then step away to cool off, I didn't mean everything. I meant the heated things that require cooling off because otherwise, we'd be going around in circles.

 

I completely understand people change, so the way a marriage works will change as well. But I think it is still nice to have certain guidelines there to begin with.

 

 

 

[LaxMom]

I think just remaining interested in your spouse as a separate individual - without the overlay of assumptions, either your own or things you've agreed on years hence - keeps bumps in the road from being devastating.

 

As Audrey said, talk. It's really hard to mysteriously grow apart, or find yourself blindsided, when you talk all the time.

 

I also think that marriage books/seminars/classes probably have the same impact as parenting books, as they were commented on in Freakonomics: it's not so much what is in the books, but the interest you (as a couple) have in them, and thus, in a successful union, that is an indicator of how well you do. (This obviously does not apply to books read by one spouse/parent trying to remediate a bad situation)