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Anyone out there have their college student at home?


Susan C.
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I could really use some pointers (and some sleep)!!!! This is freshman year, round two (ds just graduated, both attend local university). Dd is a great student and great all the way around, but a perfectionist, and she wants to take a very long time on each assignment, so then she doesn't get finished, so then she stays up close to all night (and works on homework every waking second). I am watching burn out in the making right under my nose.

 

Its going to be a L O N G fall.....

 

:bigear:

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Explain the 80/20 principle and the point of diminishing returns. There comes a point where good enough is good enough and the amount of effort creates a smaller and smaller payoff in the form of a better assignment. Think of it this way...if you can complete an assignment with a 92% in 90 minutes, why continue putting forth effort for another hour or 90 minutes to try for perfection? Is the cumulative lost time worth the extra 6-8 points? What other enriching activities or downtime is she missing out of by continuing to push past the point of ever decreasing returns for the effort? Efficiency is valued in the workplace above perfection. How does the saying go? Sacrificing the good at the altar of perfection? Something like that?

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Not exactly your situation, but my high school age DD is taking two very demanding four hour courses at the local university and has to deal with the same perfectionist tendencies. On one hand I am delighted that she is such a diligent student and would love for more of my own students to be like this - but at the same time, I am concerned that she may be working too hard.

I talked to DH a lot about it, because it is difficult for me to judge what exactly my role should be. We have come to the conclusion that we can only step back and let her figure it out herself how much is too much, how little will still get good results, how to work most effectively. It is quite a paradigm shift from the "always give your best" -work ethic she has developed over the years to the "sometimes good enough has to suffice", so this is a very difficult balancing act. I have not yet found a way to help her with this.

 

Since the beginning of the semester, she has been tweaking the way she studies and discovered certain things to streamline the process. For example, it turned out to be more efficient for her to attend a homework study session for her physics course twice a week and complete her homework there. She could do it at home, we are qualified to help - but having the scheduled time and place helps, and it gets done in the afternoon and not late at night. So, if your DD has resources like this, it might be useful to schedule parts of the homework for designated times during the day, if possible with class mates.

(The latter is particularly important since she lives at home. From my own experience, and from working with my students, I find study groups the most helpful resource; so a student who does not live on campus should make a special effort to become involved because it won't happen as naturally as it does for the students who live in the dorms.)

 

I am very interested to read the answers of more experienced college parents.

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There comes a point where good enough is good enough and the amount of effort creates a smaller and smaller payoff in the form of a better assignment. Think of it this way...if you can complete an assignment with a 92% in 90 minutes, why continue putting forth effort for another hour or 90 minutes to try for perfection? Is the cumulative lost time worth the extra 6-8 points?

 

That sounds great, but:

My student's thought is: she does not yet know how her exams will turn out, in the end it may be those 6 points that she could end up short of the A, and she would be mad at herself for not having done the homework to perfection and earned those points. Which is a completely plausible argument. What would you suggest to do about this? (Other than saying a B is not the end of the world, which sounds shallow....)

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I agree about the study groups. My ds (now graduated from college) was helped greatly by them. And they are a new concept for a homeschooler used to going solo. Dd is taking classes at two campuses, that might be part of the problem. She is an art minor, so travels to a further away campus two days a week. So, unless the study group at the closer campus happens right after class, then she misses it. And the school has a high percentage of commuters, so a lot of the students don't stay on campus to do homework.

 

I also don't like her schedule..... she insisted on s p r e a d i n g her classes out. So it seems like there isn't much time for homework because she is at school all day every day.

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That sounds great, but:

My student's thought is: she does not yet know how her exams will turn out, in the end it may be those 6 points that she could end up short of the A, and she would be mad at herself for not having done the homework to perfection and earned those points. Which is a completely plausible argument. What would you suggest to do about this? (Other than saying a B is not the end of the world, which sounds shallow....)

 

 

ditto ditto ditto!!!!! Ds missed a B by .8 in one class, so he ended up with a C+!! Our wording now is "be a point grabber!!!!"

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I also don't like her schedule..... she insisted on s p r e a d i n g her classes out. So it seems like there isn't much time for homework because she is at school all day every day.

 

With a fragmented schedule like this, an important thing she needs to learn is to use small portions of time effectively. If her schedule does not allow for large, uninterrupted stretches, she needs to find a way to break studying and homework into bite sized, portable portions, so she can utilize her breaks between classes.

Obviously, longer written assignments need to be saved for home, but she may be able to fit some reading, reviewing, memorization, recopying of notes etc into these time slots.

You may be able to help her by brainstorming ways to maximize her time she is on campus.

One thing my DD has started doing is carrying reading material everywhere (an e-reader is especially convenient). This way, even ten minutes before class can be used.

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That sounds great, but:

My student's thought is: she does not yet know how her exams will turn out, in the end it may be those 6 points that she could end up short of the A, and she would be mad at herself for not having done the homework to perfection and earned those points. Which is a completely plausible argument. What would you suggest to do about this? (Other than saying a B is not the end of the world, which sounds shallow....)

 

This is a good point. Perfectionism during the first month of the first year of school is pretty normal for serious students. Once they learn how to meet the expectations of the professors (their testing styles, grading scales, difficulty level, etc) they should calm down a little and learn exactly how much effort to put forth. It does become a problem they're 8 weeks into the semester and still going at it whole hog. That means they are either, (a) overextended or (b) heading for serious burnout. Work-life balance is as important a life skill as work ethic, I believe. That's the time to get to the root of the issue. IS the student overextended? Does she need to visit the professor during office hours to ask how to attack the material more efficiently? Did she take too many weeder classes? Maybe the schedule lacks balance? Overall perfection just isn't a realistic goal because you can always do *just* a little better. Striving for perfection is the shortest route for unhappiness for so many grown people. It can also be less about the quality of work and more about the individual caring too much about how she is perceived by others.

Edited by Barb F. PA in AZ
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Yep, no balance yet..... she was like that in homeschooling, she spreads it out to fill all waking moments. I think college will work that out, it moves faster, and it looks like it will whip her into a homework machine. But until then.....it won't be fun watching someone that is very resistant to change.....

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Isn't there a difference between a borderline B-C and a low A to A- or a high A? I thought we were talking about the latter situation.

 

Regentrude touched on it, just missing the grade you want, meaning you could have done just a little more. So knowing when to stop without it hurting you.

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Isn't there a difference between a borderline B-C and a low A to A- or a high A? I thought we were talking about the latter situation.

 

It's late and I may not be understanding your question, but our cc records class grades as 'A' 'B', etc. My child received a final grade of 89.25 and his transcript shows a "B". The B is what the 4 year unis will see when his transcript is forwarded to them. :glare: Also, that "B" is worth "3" points, whereas less than a point more would have been worth "4" points on ye olde GPA.

 

So, for us, being a point grabber is important. Sigh.

 

If I misread and my reply isn't relevant, feel free to ignore it. :tongue_smilie:

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Regentrude touched on it, just missing the grade you want, meaning you could have done just a little more. So knowing when to stop without it hurting you.

 

Yes, that's the sweet spot. Just knowing there is a place you *can* stop without losing respect for yourself or panicking.

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It's late and I may not be understanding your question, but our cc records class grades as 'A' 'B', etc. My child received a final grade of 89.25 and his transcript shows a "B". The B is what the 4 year unis will see when his transcript is forwarded to them. :glare: Also, that "B" is worth "3" points, whereas less than a point more would have been worth "4" points on ye olde GPA.

 

So, for us, being a point grabber is important. Sigh.

 

If I misread and my reply isn't relevant, feel free to ignore it. :tongue_smilie:

 

I'm probably not making myself clear. The older I get the more I talk in circles sometimes. I think this is the point I was trying to make. There is a difference between a student who is on the borderline between an A and a B or a B and a C in a class who puts in exceptional effort to push himself over and a student who is probably in A range who spends all of his time studying because of perfectionist tendencies, misguided work ethic, poor time management skills, or some combination thereof.

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......We have come to the conclusion that we can only step back and let her figure it out herself how much is too much, how little will still get good results, how to work most effectively. It is quite a paradigm shift from the "always give your best" -work ethic she has developed over the years to the "sometimes good enough has to suffice", so this is a very difficult balancing act. I have not yet found a way to help her with this.....

 

It is a large shift. Older one still struggles with this. Younger one (the one who plays strategy games lol) is more willing to make the shift and play by new rules, providing the subject isn't very interesting. So far, though, he has had at least one interesting subject per semester so he puts in that extra 80% of his time because he wants to know that 20%. Chemistry is truly a bottomless pit, if you are fascinated, and physics is not any better. I worried that he was struggling and he wasn't ready for the college science classes for most of the year, despite the A's he was getting until in the spring, during second semester chemistry, he commented that it was too bad he wasn't content to partially-learn the stuff and get C's because he could do that with so much much less work. At that point, I realized that he probably was fine. I'm not sure that you can really do much to help, except make sure that your students know about a number of different time management and study methods so they can choose among them, and encourage them to use them. We keep encouraging older one to use a big desk calendar and other tools like that that will help keep him focused on the big picture and not spend too much time on one detail. Study groups are a good idea, particularly for our homeschoolers, who are making the transition to "school". It gives them examples of how other students manage.

 

Nan

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I am not a homeschooling parent, but have long followed this great forum. Our oldest is now a sophomore at a private Christian university and is commuting for a second year. I totally understand about the push for every point because who wants to feel the let-down when having to settle for a 'C' when you could have had a 'B' (or 'B' vs. 'A')?

 

Those who live on campus get easily distracted by campus activities, dormmates, etc. My daughter now regards her studies as her primary job. She goes to campus strictly for classes and sometimes for study groups, while also having a select few campus friends who meet for lunch or coffee. Relationships need to be formed.

 

One benefit to her university is the small size. She has gotten to know the professors and knows what is expected from each of them. She has talked with them and knows which classes have participation points, which classes have the bulk of the grade from exams, which ones encourage private chats to stay on track, etc. Much of this has allowed her to pursue her studies with less stress.

 

In addition to college, our daughter has a part-time job and is also heavily involved in volunteering at our local church with the high school ministry. There is no way she would be able to focus on this ministry if she was living on campus. With this additional time commitment, she has had to experiment with her priorities.

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