BMW Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 At bedtime he usually keeps talking, and I give him a warning, he has very active days and doesn't have to get in bed early (9pm). So, last night he starts the usual chit chat, then asks a brother to play sleepover with him (getting out of bed, swapping and playing with stuffed animals). Another brother gives him a reminder of bedtime rules. Next the boy says a few mean and rude things about an older sibling, which gets a brother upset. Brother says he is going to get in trouble. Boy then says he will just explain it all away to mom and he wont be in trouble after all. And brother says yes, he will be in trouble and have consequences. So, boy declares that he will NOT obey his mom. That mom cannot make him and he wont have any consequences. I have so much going on and don't want to think through this... What would you do? I could take away his hand-held video game for a week... I could give him a separate bed time... he could miss out on a family event... but I want to reach his heart and not have him live out a stubborn streak... Bee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Well, any of those, or have a heart to heart with dad. Point out the great advantages to obeying mom, like living long and prospering. Or tonight at bedtime tear off a little piece of duct tape and stick it to the head of his bed. When he wants to know why, tell him you're getting ready to seal his mouth when he starts talking instead of sleeping. ETA- Mom might not be able to make him do such and such, but she can sure fire cut the food supply off. I'm wondering why he thinks there will be no consequences, or that he can talk his way out of this?? Experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Dominion Heather Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I'd either make him go to bed earlier and alone, or I would find a way for his brother to room in with another sibling for a few days. Let the other kids play sleepover and not him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 I like the way you think, there, Heather! Remudamom, I don't think I've been inconsistent... I think it's part of who he is... he must have been feeling some male surge or something and had an ego moment... That said, I have been his mom for a year now, his mom died from cancer and I hear that she was inconsistent, so, he might be imagining that he can get away with something... bwah-ha-ha, not with me! (said with love for the fellow) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I'd either make him go to bed earlier and alone I agree that this is what I would do in this case. IN fact, I would have him go to bed earlier and alone until he could control his impulses. In fact, this is what I did with my middle daughter who is a talker. Left alone in a room she'd go right to sleep but if her sister was in there she'd talk and talk. So, we have staggered bedtimes based on age that help avoid those problems. However, Brother should ignore him and pretend to be asleep, not remind him of bedtime or tell him that he will be in trouble. I don't let my eldest discipline the youngers, it leads to a lot of resentment and fighting (speaking as an oldest child, myself). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicheleB Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 That said, I have been his mom for a year now, his mom died from cancer and I hear that she was inconsistent, so, he might be imagining that he can get away with something... bwah-ha-ha, not with me! (said with love for the fellow) That being said, from a different angle: Is he becoming fearful of nighttime (b/c of his mother's death... and I certainly don't know any of those details or his age or anything and you do....) and *trying* to keep himself awake? Just a thought, since you mentioned he start chit chatting. Maybe it's an anxiety/grief/fearful kind of thing?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mx5 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I like the way you think, there, Heather! Remudamom, I don't think I've been inconsistent... I think it's part of who he is... he must have been feeling some male surge or something and had an ego moment... That said, I have been his mom for a year now, his mom died from cancer and I hear that she was inconsistent, so, he might be imagining that he can get away with something... bwah-ha-ha, not with me! (said with love for the fellow) Not knowing this child's age makes it a bit difficult for me to give advice, but I'll do it anyway.;) What is it that upsets you - that he's talking or that he's saying you won't give him consequences? I let my boys talk for at least a half hour after "lights out". What they have to talk about after being with each other ALL day is beyond me, but they just really enjoy it. I see it as a bonding experience for them (they are ages 13 + 9). If any of my kids shoot their mouths off about how soft I may be in a given situation, I usually hear about it from their snitch siblings. But that doesn't get me going. I do, however, correct bad behavior. I try to correlate the consequence to the infraction. A lot of that depends on the age of the child, too. I can post more once I discover the age of your boy. On a bit of a tangent here, is it possible this child is still mourning the loss of his mother? How she raised him, to me, takes a back seat to the fact that he is more than likely going to be mourning her passing for a good two more years, on average. How that looks to those around him will differ from how other kids deal with this. Undoubtedly he was not only traumatized by her death, but by her illness, and all the changes that made on his life. I love that you're interested in reaching his heart, but this too will take time. Daddy getting married after mom dies is yet another life-changing event for this boy (and siblings, if they are his siblings). I'd cut him slack in thinking you're a pushover, continue to correct him when necessary - not by what the others say but by what you observe - and give him more time. We can correct and be consistent with grace and strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 Thanks Mx5, I know that some of that comes into play. His life HAS changed a lot and I need to continue with the basics and give him time - life just keeps going and changing and that does create stress... I just thought about that for myself - how I don't like change - and he's 9... yep, more time, consistent rules, kind mommy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summer Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Sorry..but I would have spanked him by now..and I rarely spank. Also..the brother should be told to remain totally quiet and ignore the brother. The boy will stop bothering eventually if he never gets any reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summer Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I do want to add that none of my children have a 9pm bedtime. It is just turning dark then. Perhaps you could offer up..he can have a later bedtime, maybe 9:30, but only if he goes to bed willingly and properly. If he does not, he will return to 9pm the next night. The best part of this is that the brother will not have to go to bed until 9:30 but the boy, if he cannot be quiet, will have to go to bed at 9pm so hopefully, he will be asleep by the time the brother needs to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summer Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 BTW..the part I would be spanking for is the "mom can't make me" part and mom can't do anything about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Daddy getting married after mom dies is yet another life-changing event for this boy (and siblings, if they are his siblings). I'd cut him slack in thinking you're a pushover, continue to correct him when necessary - not by what the others say but by what you observe - and give him more time. We can correct and be consistent with grace and strength. The idea that the siblings were not his blood siblings had not occurred to me. Because of this I really have to add-if he was the oldest child and now has been relegated to a younger sibling slot? That would be HUGE and I would make an even stronger case for the older sibling(s) not disciplining him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam "SFSOM" in TN Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 At bedtime he usually keeps talking, and I give him a warning, he has very active days and doesn't have to get in bed early (9pm). So, last night he starts the usual chit chat, then asks a brother to play sleepover with him (getting out of bed, swapping and playing with stuffed animals). Another brother gives him a reminder of bedtime rules. Next the boy says a few mean and rude things about an older sibling, which gets a brother upset. Brother says he is going to get in trouble. Boy then says he will just explain it all away to mom and he wont be in trouble after all. And brother says yes, he will be in trouble and have consequences. So, boy declares that he will NOT obey his mom. That mom cannot make him and he wont have any consequences. I have so much going on and don't want to think through this... What would you do? I could take away his hand-held video game for a week... I could give him a separate bed time... he could miss out on a family event... but I want to reach his heart and not have him live out a stubborn streak... Bee ETA: Mmm, had I read the circumstances surrounding the child's life, I might have posted differently. I do think the gauntlet has been thrown down, and it behooves you to lovingly pick him up. :) --------------------------------------------- Kid goes to bed early. He's not old enough to go to bed later with the siblings. Put him in your room to fall asleep for a few months if necessary. Won't obey you? Can't make you? Nonsense. He might, however, also not really be old enough for his hand held game. Privileges like those come with maturity. He also might be acting so stubborn and willful because he's not getting enough sleep. Please don't let this child suffer from sleep deprivation. That would be cruel. Earlier bedtime prevents you from succumbing to child cruelty. It's for the best. [said in the voice of Maaaaa from Babe, The Sheep Pig movie.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithr Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Well, I' just pipe in here and say I wouldn't respond in a punitive way. Instead, I'd be all sad and say, Sweetie Pie, what is the matter? Why are you talking this way? And then I'd talk about why he needs his sleep and why heneeds to try to be nice and how much I love him and how it makes me sad when he disobeys and what does he think we could do to make it easier for him to follow the rules. And I'd brainstorm with him for a little while. It sounds to me like he is trying to grasp for power and to me getting punitive just builds up the power struggle whereas bonding and talking diminish it. And, gosh if his mother just died . . . I would think the need for bonding would be doubly crucial. Just mho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 If this played out in my home- big brother would have received a reminder not to tattle. I can't stand when my kids come to me with their brother's offenses. The conversation that was had was between the 2 of them. Little brother was not mouthing off like that to you (that would be a different story). The dynamics between kids are such that you have no way of knowing the tone that big brother was handling things in and you might not have the complete conversation. It makes a difference. Personally, I let my kids wind down and chat after lights out, but if it's your hard and fast rule to not talk after lights out, then little brother needs to be punished for breaking that. A logical consequence would be to send him to bed earlier than big bro. Now, back to the heart issue on little bro. I would use his direct interaction with you as your working base for his heart condition. Praise him for obedience, reassure him of your love and devotion, correct behavior as YOU see it, and encourage the boys to respect each other with actions and words. hth, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I have so much going on and don't want to think through this... What would you do? Kill two birds with one stone! Well, I don't want you to kill your son, but you can use his energy to good purpose. Bound into the room, beam at him, tell him his energy is a wonderful thing and he can use it right now by getting up and washing the dishes. I would do anything to avoid washing the dishes, even if that meant being quiet. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 My darling 12yo son likes to tell me sometimes that I cant make him do something. I keep my sense of humour about it. I smile. Then I tell him either he does it or....any number of things I hold over him come into play- he loses a privilege, a toy, computer time, money, food....I bring him back into perspective of how much he is dependent on the family system and he better pull his weight. The boy may be showing bravado to his sibling rather than to you. I wouldnt take it too seriously at all, personally, but its not beyond some simple disciplinary action like putting him alone in another room, or putting him to bed early, or whatever. And just make sure you follow through on all discipline for the next while, so he gets the message who's in charge. I think kids say stuff like that all the time to each other- my son always has, but its just a fantasy of power- maybe because he feels powerless in some way? Losing his mother may well be a reason for your boy to feel powerless on a deep level. But thats no reason to give in of course- he needs to feel secure, and boundaries and consequences are the best way to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrianne Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I find that for impulse, that is just the way he is, behaviors, positive/negative reinforcement works very well. We make a chart. For each time he obeys and does what he is told he gets a star or happy face. So many happy faces wins him a prize, like more TV time or a treat of some sort. Disobedience wins him an X. After so many Xs he loses a priviledge like TV time or dessert or does more housework. I don't have to do this much with my ds9 now but it works very well with the younger ones. To me, the key is changing a habit they have developed (talking at bedtime) and replacing it with a new habit (not talking at bedtime). I do agree that since his mom died, he may be having anxiety issues. Maybe you could replace the talking with another sleep friendly activity? My boys will make up stories sometimes with dh while in bed. (each adds to part of the story). This helps them to settle down and relax. (it is time consuming though) Now willful disobedience is another story....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Bee, the part about him losing his biological mom is really touching to me and seems like it makes it something that should be handled very carefully. But like you say, there's a transition you go through, where it's time for him to integrate into your family. And part of being in your family is getting the same discipline you would give any of your own. In our house, there are only two things that get spankings: rebellion (in all forms) and hurting self or others. I don't know how you discipline in your family, what your beliefs are on that, etc. What I would do is treat him just as you would your own biological dc, in the most loving, inclusive way possible. And I'd explain exactly what it means, that he is secure in your family, loved, and going to act as part of it. Then I'd set a very basic expectation and inspect till you get it. (The old saying is you only get what you inspect.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 You've given me things to think about, which is what I hoped for. I have to start with myself and make sure that I correct with love and not anger (I'm usually pretty good at that). I ask myself often if I would handle this boy or that boy the same if it were my biological boy, because I want to be fair and I have such a huge responsibility here - these boys will grow up and I want them to know and believe that they have been loved like my own and that I was fair. That takes work because the boys have some challenges that my boys don't. I have to look at the positive, too. They"ve come a long way! Used to run rampant in the neighborhood, at stores, in parking lots and had not ever been taught to stop and listen and walk with parents, etc. They just did whatever they wanted and mom looked on, smiling, taking all their actions as "cute and childish". They used to be in to everything, making and leaving messes. All this has changed, they have learned! I keep the rules the same for everybody and my boys rarely get into trouble, but stepsons do get into "trouble" often, so it might seem to them like they are being picked on... As it worked out, boy who gave the bedtime trouble lost video games for a week and we talked off and on during the day about the things he said and how disappointing that was for me to hear and then his siblings had a sleepover in the living room and he went to bed. Funny thing about one suggestion to get the boy up and have him do chores... he would LOVE that! This boy is actually a joy around the house as far as chores goes, he likes working alongside me and when he gets into trouble, he'll ask, "Can I do some chores for you instead?" (instead of time out) Thanks again, ladies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrianne Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 As it worked out, boy who gave the bedtime trouble lost video games for a week and we talked off and on during the day about the things he said and how disappointing that was for me to hear and then his siblings had a sleepover in the living room and he went to bed. What a great way to handle the situation! Good for you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I'd take him aside, give him hugs, explain to him why we need him to do as we say, why he needs to go to sleep. Then I'd give him a quick kiss and tell him to be quiet. Further disturbance leads to another quick kiss and telling him to be quiet. My aim is always to draw my boys into the family, making them want to be part of it, to obey. I try not to push them away from me by using artificial consequences. This change of approach probably won't work the first day, but my experience has been that it works within a week or two, leading to a decrease in defiance and a happier family for all. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.