back talking and arguing---my 12 year old dd

[kfeusse]

UGH!!!!!!!!! I am about to pull my hair out (and maybe hers too :001_smile:)...

 

We have let this go on too long (our fault....I readily admit it), but now we HAVE to pull it in. This is the problem:

 

Our daughter thinks:

 

1) she has to have the last word, phrase, grunt, eye roll....whatever

 

2) she is always right

 

3) no body listens to her

 

4) we always take her brother's side over hers

 

Many of you have in various threads over time mentioned that arguing and back talking is not allowed ever in your home, but I never took note as to HOW it is that you made it that way. In other words, what is your form of punishment for a sassy 12 year old girl??? She can be so nice and kind some of the time, but then a switch can go off and she is a brat. I hate to say that, but it is true.

 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE....give me some VERY specific things I need to do to rein this in...it is not out of control yet, but I don't want it to get that way either.

 

I need help! thanks.

[Carol in Cal.]

First of all. Are you finding that she is like this mostly in a hormonal pattern, like right before her period? If so, if you give her borage oil it might take the hormone influence down quite a bit. This helped ME a lot in peri-menopause as well.

 

Secondly, I don't know. I just keep plugging away at it. I know that every time I have been at my wits end and ready to give up on something completely, it has finally resolved itself. I figure that continuing to say what I say, although it is not completely effective, and continuing a jump on this behavior, is eventually going to prevent it. But I think that I have only been able to damp it a bit so far.

[bnbacademy]

We point out wrong behavior and how it shows an attitude problem and take away privileges. It is always something dear to him, otherwise he has little incentive to change. He can "make up for it" by redeeming his speech or behavior to go above and beyond expectations.

 

Some weeks are better than others, depending on the hormones, I think. When he is better, I make sure to tell him that I notice his good behavior also, and thank him for it. I give lots of praise/ notices when he does well.

 

I often hope and pray that I am not "exasperating my child", and have to consider whether the poor tone of voice is just transient or an attitude starting.

[La Texican]

Your list fits my four year old. I'm doing the "basketball referee" move a "blowing the whistle" every. single. time. "Nope, say it again" "I can't understand you with that tone of voice" "say it again without that face". "nope, one more time.". "find another way to say it". "what did you say?". "try again".

 

It's from a discipline plan called "Transforming the difficult child workbook, the nurtured heart approach". It says kids learn fine from video games and there's no big punishment to teach them a lesson there, just a constant "start over" when they cross a line. A basketball ref will blow that whistle every time you cross that line.

 

I'm not completely non-punitive. I wish. But The nurtured heart approach is my main plan and my go-to tool.

[justLisa]

Your list fits my four year old. I'm doing the "basketball referee" move a "blowing the whistle" every. single. time. "Nope, say it again" "I can't understand you with that tone of voice" "say it again without that face". "nope, one more time.". "find another way to say it". "what did you say?". "try again".

 

It's from a discipline plan called "Transforming the difficult child workbook, the nurtured heart approach". It says kids learn fine from video games and there's no big punishment to teach them a lesson there, just a constant "start over" when they cross a line. A basketball ref will blow that whistle every time you cross that line.

 

I'm not completely non-punitive. I wish. But The nurtured heart approach is my main plan and my go-to tool.

 

Well said. I ignore a lot, and they've learned to sort of do it on their own when I spin around and give them the look like "ahem?"

[scrapbabe]

I rarely offer advice on these types of threads. Everyone's family dynamic is different so what works for us may not work for others. Also, I am far from perfect, so I don't really feel qualified. But here's what works in my house. We don't have girls though.

 

First of all we treat our children like people. We believe they have needs, wants, desires, and should be allowed to have a say in things in their own lives. Now, we are the parents and we ultimately make the decisions, but we always try to allow for them to share their feelings/concerns about a matter, and try to give them control over their lives when it's possible. We discuss most decisions that we make with them that affect them and why we are making that decision. We try to say yes when we can so that not everything is a no. We show absolute respect for our kids and expect the same from them. I rarely shout at my kids and if I do I always apologize and let them know I was wrong. I don't boss my kids around, and when I ask them to do something it's always accompanied with a polite please and then a prompt thank you. When I ask them to do something and they don't respond I remind them how they should respond. I say calmly "is that a yes ma'am?" too remind them that they need to respond. If they are busy then their response needs to be "mom can I have just 10 minutes to finish this?" That way I'm not being ignored but they aren't expected to drop everything they're doing. If it's something I need immediately then I urgently tell them ten minutes won't do I need them now. Only once or twice have my kids ever been upset when we've had a conversation. They don't generally speak badly to me but if I don't like their tone I remind them to pick a new tone or come back later. Or I sternly tell them it's not okay to speak to me like that and share what could be a more appropriate way to address me in that instant. My 7 year old is still learning how to control his emotions and temper, so when the above things don't work with him he sits in time out. If he can't follow the rules and speak nicely then he needs to be removed from the situation.

 

Oh one more thing we do is a monthly "date" with mom or dad. Each child gets a week where they get to choose a date with mom or dad. Sometimes we have money and go out, but sometimes it's just staying up late with mom and watching their favorite movie. We aren't as vigilant about doing this as we should be... but when we do it allows us to spend positive time doing what the children want to do one one one.

 

:grouphug: to you. I hope you are able to find a way to have harmony between you and your daughter.

Edited September 15, 2012 by scrapbabe

[BlueTaelon]

No advice, I'm dealing with the same thing. As they say they hit puberty and aliens abduct them and we don't get them back until after college:glare:

[AK_Mom4]

1) she has to have the last word, phrase, grunt, eye roll....whatever

 

2) she is always right

 

3) no body listens to her

 

4) we always take her brother's side over hers

 

I can't offer any advice on #4 - it's a percieved justice thing. Maybe you don't side with her brother. Maybe you do, and it's for a good reason. but you can't win these, you just have to do what you see is best.

 

But for the first three - here's how I survived my now 18yo:

 

When she starts the rant - turn and look her full in the face and listen. Stop what you are doing and really look right at her so she knows you are listening. This included one time even pulling the car over on our way somewhere. Don't say a word - just listen (#3)

 

When the rant slows down or seems like it has stopped or she at least pauses for breath, say "You are absolutely right". (#2) Nothing else.

 

Expect her to ramp up and keep arguing, but just keep listening. She may go on for 3-4 more minutes the first time because she won't have listened to you. Let her finish ranting (see #1 - giving her the last word).

 

When she's finally done, go back to what you were doing. It certainly didn't take many repeats before my daughter felt silly ranting to someone who was obviously listening, argreeing and not arguing with her. She actually started TALKING to me about things instead of just launching directly into the rant.

[kfeusse]

I can't offer any advice on #4 - it's a percieved justice thing. Maybe you don't side with her brother. Maybe you do, and it's for a good reason. but you can't win these, you just have to do what you see is best.

 

But for the first three - here's how I survived my now 18yo:

 

When she starts the rant - turn and look her full in the face and listen. Stop what you are doing and really look right at her so she knows you are listening. This included one time even pulling the car over on our way somewhere. Don't say a word - just listen (#3)

 

When the rant slows down or seems like it has stopped or she at least pauses for breath, say "You are absolutely right". (#2) Nothing else.

 

Expect her to ramp up and keep arguing, but just keep listening. She may go on for 3-4 more minutes the first time because she won't have listened to you. Let her finish ranting (see #1 - giving her the last word).

 

When she's finally done, go back to what you were doing. It certainly didn't take many repeats before my daughter felt silly ranting to someone who was obviously listening, argreeing and not arguing with her. She actually started TALKING to me about things instead of just launching directly into the rant.

 

this is really very interesting. I would have NEVER thought of this....thanks. I will try it.

[ktgrok]

I found what is important is to give them the RIGHT way to say it. I can't just say "don't be so rude" I have to give him exactly which words/tone were wrong, then model what the right way to ask/say/etc was. That is the ONLY thing that has helped.

[Unicorn.]

That wouldn't work w/ my dd. She would hear the "you're absolutely right" comment, take it as sarcasm, and then rant about how I don't really care what she has to say or how she feels.

[kfeusse]

I found what is important is to give them the RIGHT way to say it. I can't just say "don't be so rude" I have to give him exactly which words/tone were wrong, then model what the right way to ask/say/etc was. That is the ONLY thing that has helped.

 

I do this, but when I tell her want to say, and how to say it...she repenats the words with her normal attitude tone....so then I repeat it again...and sometime again....and each time her attitude gets worse and not better. Do I just keep doing it until she can match my words AND my tone?

[kfeusse]

That wouldn't work w/ my dd. She would hear the "you're absolutely right" comment, take it as sarcasm, and then rant about how I don't really care what she has to say or how she feels.

 

and now that I think more about it, my dd would take the same comment as "you are right and this is what I will do to your brother for being such a pain"...instead of just validating her feelings. But I do like the idea of looking at her with undivided attention and showing her that I am REALLY listening...sometimes that is really hard to do...but I know I can do better at that.