Experienced Henle users...help please.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Dd14 is getting really frustrated with Henle right now. We are having two issues. First, she is getting hung up on how to determine if a word, which she knows is feminine, or masculine for example, is in the first or second declension instead of the third declension. We are on lesson 3, exercise 50 and the answer key is telling us that the word montium is genitive plural 3rd declension. How does she know, without seeing it used in a sentence, that it isn't accusative singular 2nd declension?

 

Secondly, she is telling me that very often she feels lost, that the Henle isn't clear in it's explanations. Is First Form known to be more explanatory or clear?

 

Thank you.

[Teachin'Mine]

We used Henle 1. I wish we had used First and Second Form instead. Henle moves quickly with lots of memorization. From what I understand, 1st and 2nd cover the same grammar, but at a slower pace and with more exercises.

[Kendall]

She should know that montium is a form of the word mons, montis. the is in montis tells her that it is 3rd declension. So the bottom line here is to recognize the noun, then know the noun's declension, then look at the endings for that declension.

 

Do you have a few specific explanations that aren't clear that we could help with?

 

Are you learning this with her? (If not and you can at all manage it, I would highly recommend it) I'm sure most of my children could not have done Henle completely on their own.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Well, for this particular instance, she knows it's genitive plural 3rd declension and not accusative singular 2nd declension because of the "i" in the ending of the word (i-stem endings are 3rd declension). You have to know the genitive singular of the word to determine which declension a word belongs to. (1st decl = ae; 2nd decl = i; 3rd decl = is; 4th decl = us; 5th decl = ei) So it's the genitive singular of the word that determines the declension, not the gender.

 

As for feeling lost, that's not uncommon. Henle is challenging if the student/teacher has not had any prior Latin exposure. First/Second Form covers the same material but at slower pace.

 

Thank you Kinsa. I understand. You know, I now remember reading about needing to know the genitive singular and thought i had discussed that with her about a month ago...either I didn't or she forgot. I think I'll type this up and post it on the front of her notebook.

 

As for Henle or First Form...I'm thinking we may make the switch. She loves Latin and I don't want her to get frustrated to the point of wanting to drop it. We have been trying to go slow, but it would be nice to have it planned that way.

 

Thank you again.

[Halcyon]

We have been using henle for about a year and a few months, and are on Ex 150. So take what we say with a grain of salt, as i wouldnt consider us "experienced " users! Anyway, one thing i have found wit Henle is that the grammar rules must be explicitly memorized and repeated at least a couple of times a week. Quizzes, oral or written, are essential. Review review review. Make minibooks, or charts, or cards, of frequently mistemembered facts and study them. Memorize the exceptions, above all.

 

And dont hesitate to put Henle on hold and just review what she has learned us far. And i second learning alongside her.

[5LittleMonkeys]

She should know that montium is a form of the word mons, montis. the is in montis tells her that it is 3rd declension. So the bottom line here is to recognize the noun, then know the noun's declension, then look at the endings for that declension.

 

Do you have a few specific explanations that aren't clear that we could help with?

 

Are you learning this with her? (If not and you can at all manage it, I would highly recommend it) I'm sure most of my children could not have done Henle completely on their own.

 

I am trying to do it with her but obviously it is moving too fast for me as well. :glare: We are obviously behind in our memorization since we can determine the root word and it's meaning, but not know how to decline it.?? We have to memorize the nominative and genitive when learning the vocabulary in order to know what declension it is in and therefore, how to decline it. Correct?

 

Wow, failure to memorize halts all forward progress in Latin. Yah, I think we need to back up and go at this slower.

[Halcyon]

Yes sounds like you need to back up and memorize all your declensions learned thus far and all you exceptions.we used the mp guide book or first year, perhaps that would help you because she includes built in review.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Yes sounds like you need to back up and memorize all your declensions learned thus far and all you exceptions.we used the mp guide book or first year, perhaps that would help you because she includes built in review.

 

 

I have the MP guide but ended up not using it because I need this class to count as one high school credit of Foreign Language, and I didn't think the guide would move us through enough material to accomplish that. I'll need to go back and research that again.

[Colleen in NS]

I am trying to do it with her but obviously it is moving too fast for me as well. :glare: We are obviously behind in our memorization since we can determine the root word and it's meaning, but not know how to decline it.?? We have to memorize the nominative and genitive when learning the vocabulary in order to know what declension it is in and therefore, how to decline it. Correct?

 

Correct.

 

You also have to memorize all the grammar forms (noun declension forms, verb conjugation forms, adjectives) as you come across them, or they will all start blurring together.

 

It's helpful to recite vocabulary, forms, and rules every day. Boring, but helpful. Esp. helpful when doing the tons and tons of translation exercises in Henle. If your daughter is lost, I suggest you stop and work on memory work alone, until she starts sorting the various parts out in her mind. Have her write out the vocab, forms, and rules, too. Maybe even write out the vocab and forms a few times a week. Have her orally or written(ly) (or both) decline vocabulary other than just the sample forms (not just terra, terrae, terrae, etc. - but practice with via, viae, viae, etc. or Roma, Romae, Romae, etc. - any new vocab she gets) It really will make the exercise sets and new explanations easier in the future.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Colleen in NS

[JudoMom]

I have the MP guide but ended up not using it because I need this class to count as one high school credit of Foreign Language, and I didn't think the guide would move us through enough material to accomplish that. I'll need to go back and research that again.

 

You might want to look at the Mother of Divine Grace syllabus. It has quizzes and great instructions on what to study, review, etc.

[Colleen in NS]

p.s. Did you ever print out this post: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showpost.php?p=4055733&postcount=7 I scheduled in for memory work to be done daily in our house. We would be lost without it. :D

[Halcyon]

p.s. Did you ever print out this post: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showpost.php?p=4055733&postcount=7 I scheduled in for memory work to be done daily in our house. We would be lost without it. :D

 

I hadn't seen that Colleen! Very helpful. We don't use a guide book anymore so this will be a big help. How long do you spend on Latin each day? An hour?

[5LittleMonkeys]

Correct.

 

You also have to memorize all the grammar forms (noun declension forms, verb conjugation forms, adjectives) as you come across them, or they will all start blurring together.

 

It's helpful to recite vocabulary, forms, and rules every day. Boring, but helpful. Esp. helpful when doing the tons and tons of translation exercises in Henle. If your daughter is lost, I suggest you stop and work on memory work alone, until she starts sorting the various parts out in her mind. Have her write out the vocab, forms, and rules, too. Maybe even write out the vocab and forms a few times a week. Have her orally or written(ly) (or both) decline vocabulary other than just the sample forms (not just terra, terrae, terrae, etc. - but practice with via, viae, viae, etc. or Roma, Romae, Romae, etc. - any new vocab she gets) It really will make the exercise sets and new explanations easier in the future.

 

Thanks. I'll write out a schedule to do this.

 

When we started the book it was pretty easy but the difficulty really snuck up on us. :blushing:

[5LittleMonkeys]

p.s. Did you ever print out this post: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showpost.php?p=4055733&postcount=7 I scheduled in for memory work to be done daily in our house. We would be lost without it. :D

 

 

Oh good grief! Yes! I remember printing that out! Now, what did I do with it? Between the time I printed it out and the time I was going to implement it I must have forgotten about it. My brain is truly Swiss cheese most of the time...no wonder I can't decline anything.:D

 

Okay, I'm going to start back at square one with this. I just need to get more organized and deliberate with this, especially since I have 3 other dc coming up that will end up doing Latin.

 

I've printed out your schedule, I have the MoDG syllabus that we've been following, but apparently not closely enough. I'll take the next few weeks and make sure we are solid on all of the vocabulary, rules, charts and what not, then we will move on from there.

 

I feel completely irritated with myself for letting us get so lost...I feel like we've learned quite a bit, but, well, not enough. BUT, thank you all for helping out!

[Kendall]

Aime,

 

You have a lot you are doing each day with five children. You have caught the problem quickly and you will get back on track. Let me encourage you that the time you spend now will pay off later! I worked through Henle 1 and 2 with my oldest two for three years. I took that book to every OB appointment (2 pregnancies during those years) and every other appointment and even in the van when my husband was driving. It was hard to keep up and there were days I was a day or two behind my kids, but now that my 3rd and 4th children are in Henle, I'm not spending any prep time, yeah! You will get there!

[5LittleMonkeys]

Aime,

 

You have a lot you are doing each day with five children. You have caught the problem quickly and you will get back on track. Let me encourage you that the time you spend now will pay off later! I worked through Henle 1 and 2 with my oldest two for three years. I took that book to every OB appointment (2 pregnancies during those years) and every other appointment and even in the van when my husband was driving. It was hard to keep up and there were days I was a day or two behind my kids, but now that my 3rd and 4th children are in Henle, I'm not spending any prep time, yeah! You will get there!

 

Thank you Kendall. My poor oldest girl...I hope she survives me, but at least the youngers will benefit from our struggles.;)

[Colleen in NS]

I hadn't seen that Colleen! Very helpful. We don't use a guide book anymore so this will be a big help. How long do you spend on Latin each day? An hour?

 

When my son was doing Henle 1, I'd guess he spent about three or four hours a week - it all just depended on how long an exercise set was. We spread the book out over three years.

 

Oh good grief! Yes! I remember printing that out! Now, what did I do with it? Between the time I printed it out and the time I was going to implement it I must have forgotten about it. My brain is truly Swiss cheese most of the time...no wonder I can't decline anything.:D

 

Okay, I'm going to start back at square one with this. I just need to get more organized and deliberate with this, especially since I have 3 other dc coming up that will end up doing Latin.

 

I've printed out your schedule, I have the MoDG syllabus that we've been following, but apparently not closely enough. I'll take the next few weeks and make sure we are solid on all of the vocabulary, rules, charts and what not, then we will move on from there.

 

I feel completely irritated with myself for letting us get so lost...I feel like we've learned quite a bit, but, well, not enough. BUT, thank you all for helping out!

 

I'm pretty holey these days myself. Most of the time I feel like I'm constantly retrieving a fallen ball here and there, you know, those balls that I've been trying to juggle for years. It drives me nuts. Anyway, it seems like you know what you're doing, so you'll do fine.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Anyway, it seems like you know what you're doing, so you'll do fine.

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence. ;)