The future of Homeschooling...good or bad?

[titianmom]

Some how, the one in Sales was merged over here and someone deleted my revision, so I'm doing it again!!!!!

 

 

How is the economics at your home affecting your homeschooling decisions?

 

Do you think there's been changes in homeschooling that is good or bad over the last 25 years??

 

What do you think of the curriculum that's out there? Good? Bad? Doesn't matter? Do you think economic changes are going to effect some homeschool family publishers? (It's expensive to publish, just FYI.)

 

 

Anyone been around since the beginning of homeschooling? Tell us some of your stories of how it was when you first started, etc; esp the difficulties so that people understand where we've come from. Thanks!

 

Is there a possibility that we could become a little, ah, lax and get spoiled a bit with all of the "make it easy to homeschool" material out there?

 

Or is that impossible? LOL. It's still a challenge to homeschool, I know that. Plus, I'm not wanting to start wars, I just want to examine the changes going on, so no slams, please.

 

I've seen and heard things that bother me, but I"ve decided to change my approach, here, and just let that stuff go.

 

Thanks!

 

Let's just have some discussion, here that's helpful.

 

Kim

[dtsmamtj]

You are not alone in your ponderings.

 

 

T

[TracyR]

Well first this is in the wrong board. Second, I feel you are worrying needlessly. Yes there will always be someone who isn't doing their job homeschooling their children and in the end they will have to answer to their children for that. Just as children in brick and mortar schools get by in school without knowing a thing , falling through the cracks so to speak. Not all children in brick and mortar school know everything and they all don't graduate being stellar students. There is always some children that fall through the cracks , get passed by doing very little and so on. But the vast majority are homeschooling their children and they maynot be doing it in a way that you would be doing it. How do you know these children don't know anything? Because they may not answer a drilled question you give them? Means nothing. It could be possible they aren't interested in answering your question or that the question you asked was not part of something they have studied yet. We all don't study the same thing at the same time.

My girls are pretty smart, if they take a test or someone asks them a question that throws them off they act like the stupidest kids in the world. Of course I wish they wouldn't do that with all the time I do put into educating them. But they do.

Also how do you know that their reasons are wrong? Every family has their own personal reasons as to why they homeschool their children. There are as many reasons why each and every individual homeschools as there are stars in the sky. I homeschool my children because I want them to have an excellent education. I want them to focus on their school work and not on other children picking on them or teachers harassing them. I want my girls to be confident women who will feel good about themselves. I want them go to college.

My sister has her own reasons. Of course she wants her children to have a good education but neither her husband and she donot drive so they have no transportation to take their children to a better school district. The one they live in , well , my sister is white and they are the minority and its a low income district with children who come from parents don't care about their children at all and they thinking fighting and hurting other children is the answer.

So why her reasons aren't my reasons they aren't wrong. I have met some families who say they don't like getting up early in the morning. Fair enough , neither do I. We get up around 8:30 , 9 am. We feel refreshed and ready for the day. Could we get our butts out bed eariler. Sure but then I'll have tired whiny kids for the day.

 

Statistics still show that home educated children score well and do better then children from brick and mortar schools. Our greatest leaders were well educated from home and they didn't have standardized testing back then. I live in a very strict homeschooling state so I don't know the meaning of a district that is laid back and lets things slide. That doesn't happen here in PA. I'm not sure what other states are like but each district makes their own rules, and if the parent can live with themselves with poorly educating their child then that is their business unfortunatley. You just keep doing what your doing. Those who aren't doing their job will have to answer for it later in some way or another.

 

In the end I think homeschooling will continue to thrive. Its existed since the beginning of time and I don't think its going anywhere soon. Technology is changing things and even with the creation of cyberschooling its showing that homeschooling isn't going anywhere.

I think all moms who homeschool should be honored.

[JudoMom]

Hi all,

 

I have this concern. It has just developed lately. I thought I'd share it with you all and ask what you think.

 

As we homeschooling moms who have been around for a while know, the homeschooling community has fought pretty hard to gain any amount of respect from the public and academic community.

 

I remember starting out in homeschooling, sitting in my local support group amongst humble, talented, old-timer homeschooling moms who started homeschooling when no one was doing it, using whatever materials they could dig up from either the public school systems or could write on their own.

 

Most of their children were grown and successfully off to college and wow'ing their professors, etc. Their mothers could honestly say that, by the grace of God, they'd done their job and had done it well.

 

These ladies deserve our respect, and I feel we need to honor them by keeping the homeschooling tradition alive and well and respected by doing our best by our children, too, by really teaching them and keeping the standards of our education as high as we possibly can.

 

So what do I mean by all of this?

 

Well, I am starting to run into ladies who are homeschooling their kids for all of the wrong reasons, and I'm meeting homeschooled kids who don't really know anything, and I'm starting to see counties, used to homeschooling, now, that are either backing off on their standards at review time or simply not checking up on these kids.

 

I'm also seeing way too many people jumping on the homeschooling money wheel and putting out what I feel is inferior quality material that naive homeschooling parents are lapping up because it saves them work from developing something of quality on their own using quality material. I'm not going to tell you company names. I think those that have been around a while could think of something they've looked at at curriculum fairs that they wondered why anyone would buy the stuff.

 

(Not that there isn't good stuff out there, too, but there's some pretty bland, below-grade level easy-to-do, poor quality stuff out there IMHO that people are buying, and I worry about the kids.)

 

Right now, we have statistics to prove that homeschooling works.

 

But what about the future? What happens if the SAT and standard testing results start falling off? Could that happen? I think it could. I think we could see the day when colleges start backing off on accepting homeschoolers, or even state gov's gaining enough ammo to justify regulating our homeschooling.

 

What do you folks think? Am I worrying needlessly? Or I'm I a prophet of the future of homeschooling if we all don't keep up the quality, one-on-one time with our kids and make a real effort to actually teach them and not leave it all up to someone else's guides, et al, to do the job for us because we either don't have the confidence or time or energy to teach our kids ourselves?

 

Does anyone see what I mean?

 

Understand, it is even more than the quality of material. Even with poor quality material you can still excel if you are actually teaching your kids and expanding on the subject with other material. I am running into parents who let the kids run wild, work on their own, never finish their curriculum during the year because the family takes advantage of the freedom and travels and runs around playing all year, etc. ?? Why the counties let this go on, I have no idea.

 

 

Thanks,

Kim

 

I think you're worrying needlessly, and I think you're passing a lot of judgment on the families you're running across.

 

I can only think of 1 wrong reason to homeschool, and that is because you want to keep your kid at home locked in a room and abuse them--you know, the kind of stories that hit the news now and again that make us all cringe. Just because someone has a different reason than me for homeschooling doesn't make it invalid.

 

How do you know what these kids know when you meet them? Do you quiz them? Or do they just know different stuff than what you're looking for?

 

Just because you wouldn't use a self-teaching curriculum doesn't make it ineffective. It doesn't mean the parents aren't involved. And some people don't homeschool for a superior rigorous education, and that's okay, too.

 

I've never finished a math book in 4 years with 3 different boys. That doesn't mean they don't know math. I've never designed my own curriculum.

 

I would assume the counties let the running around go on because the families are not violating any laws.

 

And all of the above is said gently and kindly, just to clarify my tone :001_smile:. I've been interrupted at least a gazillion times and I'm making dinner at the same time :001_smile:.

[yvonne]

I was listening to a session from a homeschool convention on cd a while ago. The comment that struck me the most was this one.

 

"Parents used to call and ask, 'What is the best curriculum out there for x?' Now they call and ask, 'What curriculum is the easiest to teach?'" "Easiest to teach" in the sense of requiring the least time on the part of the parent.

 

I thought that was very telling.

[titianmom]

Interesting point. I regret starting this thread on this board, I think the earlier post is correct and there are better places to put this so I might move it over later.

 

But I have talked to people who boast that they just flip on the computer and don't have to do anything but log grades.

 

Okay.

 

Just hope that software is really good stuff.

 

I know that homeschooling is hard, especially if you have a lot of kids to take care of.

 

However, I have a friend who has 8 children and she is a very successful homeschooling mom who lives in a chaotic household, doesn't care one wit about a fancy house, and spends all of her time meeting the needs of her kids. Is she perfect? Naw, none of us are; she just has a heart for homeschooling.

 

It takes sacrifice and resolve to homeschool, IMHO.

 

Kim

 

 

I was listening to a session from a homeschool convention on cd a while ago. The comment that struck me the most was this one.

 

"Parents used to call and ask, 'What is the best curriculum out there for x?' Now they call and ask, 'What curriculum is the easiest to teach?'" "Easiest to teach" in the sense of requiring the least time on the part of the parent.

 

I thought that was very telling.

[titianmom]

I can only think of 1 wrong reason to homeschool, and that is because you want to keep your kid at home locked in a room and abuse them--you know, the kind of stories that hit the news now and again that make us all cringe. Just because someone has a different reason than me for homeschooling doesn't make it invalid.

 

I can think of a few bad reasons for homeschooling, like being unable to get along with other adults, getting into a fight with a school teacher, and pulling your kids out of school in anger to homeschool. I have other stories, but fortunately the county actually did something about it.

 

 

How do you know what these kids know when you meet them? Do you quiz them? Or do they just know different stuff than what you're looking for?

 

 

Yes, I do. In Sunday School I have a mix of children, both PS'd and homeschooled. Now, I keep in mind that some kids just don't like to give answers, period. And I don't purposely quiz anyone, it just comes out in conversations sometimes as I get to know them. I also have these very bright kids read aloud, etc. THere are ways to see that some of the older kids just don't seem (to me) to be making progress. But again, every child is different, I know that.

 

I have long term relations with some, others I just know through groups, etc.

 

YOu are right in that I have no real proof that the parents aren't doing their job; that's why I don't say anything. I give them the benefit of the doubt. I even helped some of them get started homeschooling!

 

That's why I started this thread. I wonder if I'm just imagining things, LOL. I like my kids and I constantly encourage the moms. Again, I actually helped some of them get started. But I see a *lot* of chaos, sometimes, and I wonder. Is it arrogance? Perhaps; I knew it was dangerous, again, to even start this thread because I knew there would be folks who would get defensive. But the law of averages pretty much gives credence to the possibility that there probably are parents out there who are just fighting the system and may be hurting their kids in the long run.

 

 

Just because you wouldn't use a self-teaching curriculum doesn't make it ineffective. It doesn't mean the parents aren't involved. And some people don't homeschool for a superior rigorous education, and that's okay, too.

 

I've never finished a math book in 4 years with 3 different boys. That doesn't mean they don't know math. I've never designed my own curriculum.

 

It isn't a matter of finishing, nec. And I've used self-teaching stuff, also, LOL. That isn't my point. IT's parents who are so busy with their own lives, etc, (some stories sound like Payton Place) that makes me wonder. Again, I can only go by what THEY tell me, and I can't be sure if it is just my over-worrying imagination or what.

 

But I live in a poor area where the drop-out rate is 50%, and these parents who were drop outs are pulling their unmanagable kids out of school to homeschool because they don't like the teachers, et al. You see what I mean? And by law, the county can't do anything about it.

 

First of all, the counties usually only require that your children show progess. That's all. Let's hope we're all showing progress! :) What I'm talking about is, for ex, a parent who has been on medication for years, who often sleeps during the day and is up at night watching TV at 3 a.m. with their kids, and didn't finish not even half of the content yet the reviewers passed them. I wonder if the reviewers just don't want to make waves, or what. I think not everyone should be homeschooling.

 

I was sick this past year--very sick. I didn't do my daughter the justice I should have. But, thankfully, she's 2 years ahead so I didn't do too much damage. But I'm telling you, if I have a relapse, I told my husband that we would have to consider the possibility that we should put her into a school, for her sake. I want what's best for her; I'm not trying to prove anything, you know? :)

 

 

I would assume the counties let the running around go on because the families are not violating any laws.

 

And all of the above is said gently and kindly, just to clarify my tone :001_smile:. I've been interrupted at least a gazillion times and I'm making dinner at the same time :001_smile:.

 

Understand perfectly. Not all counties are the same, though!

 

I am treading on thin ice and I knew this was a dangerous topic, LOL. I still want all of these parents to succeed, but some, I fear, well... I don't know. Just a gut thing, you know?

 

More than anything, I was thinking of the probability that the numbers are growing and homeschooling is even becoming vogue, LOL, and the law of averages is gonna happen, and that I believe we could see the day when homeschooling and PS'ing evens out in the end, because everyone jumps into the foray and the stats start looking alike or maybe shifting in favor of PS'ing. Just a thought.

 

Take care,

Kim

[titianmom]

Well first this is in the wrong board. .

 

Hi Tracy, you're absolutely right. Sorry; I didn't even think to look at another board before posting.

 

Since your debate sorta follows another poster's, you can read my response to hers.

 

I really mean no disrespect to the moms out there, esp to those with several children. God bless 'em! And my kid acts like she never heard of a noun, too, sometimes, LOL. That's kids for you. I'm not talking about that.

 

Frankly, if you're on a homeschooling chat, that means homeschooling is important to you! ;)

 

I'm talking about serious cases that I wonder about, you know? :)

 

 

Take care,

Kim

[at the beach]

Well, I personally feel that the best education is one in which the child learns to educate himself. We can lead the horse to water but surely cannot make him drink. I personally say, go for it, to the parents who let their darlings run amuck and be children. ;) I also think that kids can be alarmingly behind and catch up at breakneck pace when they are older. Young kids IMO don't necessarily need to be learning all the stuff they are force-fed at very early ages in our schools. I am not convinced it really makes an impact down the road, other than to perhaps kill a natural desire to learn.

 

When I started hs, I was very much all about *teaching* my children all the things I felt they needed to be taught. My brother made a comment (and his kids are in public school, fwiw) that regardless of what I do or don't do, kids will learn what they need to know when they need to know it. I didn't buy it then, but now I really see that he had a point. Still, my girls do have a curriculum (CM) and they are studying Latin, math, reading, writing, taking part in music lessons, sports, etc. So, we are certainly not unstructured here, but I also think that a child will form a desire within him/herself in regard to their life/future and will take it upon themselves to do what they need to do to reach that goal. There are a gazillion kids in school who hate school, hate reading, hate learning and are biding their time until they can walk out those doors a free person, whether it is with a high school diploma or without. Many, many schools are failing miserably. Should we shut all of them down and say that's it for compulsory education?

 

I say, it's better to run wild in the sunshine and out of doors than it is to be locked inside the walls of a school doing nothing. Now obviously, I would never support abuse of children or neglect, but if it's just that they are not doing formal school, well, I say, so what? That has nothing to do with whether they are learning or not. We are all learning all the time IMO.

 

Anita

[at the beach]

IT's parents who are so busy with their own lives, etc, (some stories sound like Payton Place) that makes me wonder. Again, I can only go by what THEY tell me, and I can't be sure if it is just my over-worrying imagination or what.

 

But I live in a poor area where the drop-out rate is 50%, and these parents who were drop outs are pulling their unmanagable kids out of school to homeschool because they don't like the teachers, et al. You see what I mean? And by law, the county can't do anything about it.

 

 

But you see, the schools then aren't doing their job, either, right? The county isn't able to stop kids from dropping out, either. If the drop out rate is 50%, I don't get what makes the difference then? Would these homeschooled kids have it better in school? I don't know. Ultimately, children are the responsibility of parents IMO. So, if you have struggling or even irresponsible parents, it makes it very difficult regardless, you know? It's not necessarily the homeschooling or the public schooling. It's a whole different issue that you raise here I think.

 

Anita

[titianmom]

I can't believe this ended up in the SALE board, LOL. What in the world did I click before starting this? I have no idea.

 

I'm going to completely re-do this thread in the proper board, and completely restate my concern in a broader way so that people understand fully where I'm coming from, okay?

 

I'm really looking at the broader pic, and I've allowed it to get to examples which I didn't intend.

 

:)

 

I'm thinking down the road and the face of homeschooling in general, as it becomes more and more accepted and more popular. Let's say, 10 years from now?

 

I agree with you 100% by the way. It is up to the parents. And the burdened school boards are going to make mistakes. It happens.

 

Thanks,

Kim

 

But you see, the schools then aren't doing their job, either, right? The county isn't able to stop kids from dropping out, either. If the drop out rate is 50%, I don't get what makes the difference then? Would these homeschooled kids have it better in school? I don't know. Ultimately, children are the responsibility of parents IMO. So, if you have struggling or even irresponsible parents, it makes it very difficult regardless, you know? It's not necessarily the homeschooling or the public schooling. It's a whole different issue that you raise here I think.

 

Anita

[titianmom]

I know PA is tough, I almost moved there. Shew! You have my respect, LOL. But as I said, every state is different ;).

 

Thanks for the input.

 

Kim

[chaik76]

Hi all,

 

I have this concern. It has just developed lately. I thought I'd share it with you all and ask what you think.

 

As we homeschooling moms who have been around for a while know, the homeschooling community has fought pretty hard to gain any amount of respect from the public and academic community.

 

I remember starting out in homeschooling, sitting in my local support group amongst humble, talented, old-timer homeschooling moms who started homeschooling when no one was doing it, using whatever materials they could dig up from either the public school systems or could write on their own.

 

Most of their children were grown and successfully off to college and wow'ing their professors, etc. Their mothers could honestly say that, by the grace of God, they'd done their job and had done it well.

 

These ladies deserve our respect, and I feel we need to honor them by keeping the homeschooling tradition alive and well and respected by doing our best by our children, too, by really teaching them and keeping the standards of our education as high as we possibly can.

 

So what do I mean by all of this?

 

Well, I am starting to run into ladies who are homeschooling their kids for all of the wrong reasons, and I'm meeting homeschooled kids who don't really know anything, and I'm starting to see counties, used to homeschooling, now, that are either backing off on their standards at review time or simply not checking up on these kids.

 

I'm also seeing way too many people jumping on the homeschooling money wheel and putting out what I feel is inferior quality material that naive homeschooling parents are lapping up because it saves them work from developing something of quality on their own using quality material. I'm not going to tell you company names. I think those that have been around a while could think of something they've looked at at curriculum fairs that they wondered why anyone would buy the stuff.

 

(Not that there isn't good stuff out there, too, but there's some pretty bland, below-grade level easy-to-do, poor quality stuff out there IMHO that people are buying, and I worry about the kids.)

 

Right now, we have statistics to prove that homeschooling works.

 

But what about the future? What happens if the SAT and standard testing results start falling off? Could that happen? I think it could. I think we could see the day when colleges start backing off on accepting homeschoolers, or even state gov's gaining enough ammo to justify regulating our homeschooling.

 

What do you folks think? Am I worrying needlessly? Or I'm I a prophet of the future of homeschooling if we all don't keep up the quality, one-on-one time with our kids and make a real effort to actually teach them and not leave it all up to someone else's guides, et al, to do the job for us because we either don't have the confidence or time or energy to teach our kids ourselves?

 

Does anyone see what I mean?

 

Understand, it is even more than the quality of material. Even with poor quality material you can still excel if you are actually teaching your kids and expanding on the subject with other material. I am running into parents who let the kids run wild, work on their own, never finish their curriculum during the year because the family takes advantage of the freedom and travels and runs around playing all year, etc. ?? Why the counties let this go on, I have no idea.

 

 

Thanks,

Kim

I do worry about parents like this, but I worry that what will happen is that our hard-won rights will be circumscribed and we will end up with more reporting, etc. I live in an area with a large number of homeschoolers, and haven't really seen the problems you are talking about. The large majority of us are very dedicated. I do see, that if what you are saying is true, that the US will sit up and take notice as these "uneducated homeschoolers" reach college age and are unable to function. It could be detrimental to homeschoolers everywhere.

 

I think for the most part that homeschoolers really care about and educate their children in the best way they see fit...we won't find out how they really turn out until they're grown.

 

One of the reasons I homeschool is so that my kids can "run around and play", so that I can choose how and when to school (we school approximately 48 weeks a year so I think I'm okay there!), and I have no problem not finishing various curricula if I don't think it's worth it...especially if I see ds has already picked up the content.

 

We do use homeschooling as an opportunity to "pick up and go" when we want. It's one of the reasons I chose to homeschool. So far, all I've gotten are comments on how much my son knows...

If I felt it was detrimental, i.e., my son wasn't learning, we would definitely change our tactics though.

 

My one concern is that I don't agree with your statement (highlighted in blue) about counties, etc. backing off. They may be, but that's what I'm fighting for! I don't want government overlooking the schooling process of my children...that is what I am here for. Those who do not really do anything will find a way to circumvent the system no matter what.

 

While I don't necessarily agree that this is what is happening...I think only time will tell...it's definitely given me food for thought. I'll have to reflect on this, and see if perhaps I've got some blinders on where homeschooling is concerned.

 

 

(p.s. I'm in Pa also...I think our homeschooling laws here are ridiculous, but I've found that most of the homeschoolers I know around here think they are GREAT.)

[TracyR]

There is always serious cases unfortunatley. No matter what you do. Wether they are homeschooled or schooled in a brick and mortar school.

We cyberschool so it could be some of the parents do this as well. There is software available that can be used for self education , there is also cyberschooling where children have an online teacher. My oldest took an online math course last year and it was nice for me because I could work with my 2nd daughter on her math that she was having problems last year. I didn't have to do much. I know many cyberschoolers that don't follow up with their children's work . Its not so much an issue with the older children but many of the 3rd, 4th 5th graders the parents let them to their own accord. Again in the end its the parents who will have to answer for it.

 

 

I agree that it is a whole different issue that is being raised up in this topic.

 

 

I know here in Pa many of the children who can't make it in school due to behavorial issues are cyberschooled. Of course we aren't them and not all children with behavorial issues are cyberschooled either.

 

I know this year , every year they put articles in the paper about homeschoolers , cyberschoolers in our local paper. This year it was an article about a girl who was pulled out of school because she had issues with her behavoir , the school wasn't meeting her needs so her parents pulled her out. Actually being at home was a better enviroment for her and she has thrived learning in a home enviroment and is getting ready to graduate. Her mother said the way things were going for her and the way the school handled things she was seeing her child dropping out. So they at least tried something else and it worked for them. Do I know if this girl had a well rounded education , do I know if she is intelligent , do I know what her home life is , or what her family structure was like to have issues going on like that for her was ? No. But the one thing I did see was that she wasn't a drop out. So for children who struggle with their behavior , have a poor home life and they are still being homeschooled , and it doesn't have to be in a way you or I would do it. But they are still learning in some sort of fashion whatever it maybe. They aren't yet drop outs. Which is a good thing.

 

I think using an easy to use curriculum isn't a bad thing. If these parents are drop outs I wouldn't expect them to use the Well Trained Mind ( unless they were truely motivated ). Also some parents with multiple children need something easy for a year to decompress from life a bit. Been there done that. Doesn't make their education any less.

 

I would expect a drop out mother with a child that is in danger of dropping out to use the easiest curriculum for their child. I'm sure if they are pulling them out of a bad situation there are going to be tons of gaps in their education for one. next, because if their education is limited using something like The Latin Centered curriculum isn't going to really get done because the parent needs to study it and if their education is limited it maybe impossible for them unless they are really truely motivated to want to continue on with their education themselves. and last,if you have a child with behavorial problems then alot of the times there are learning probelms and you are going to want to go with a simplier program as not to frustrate them. I wouldn't put a near drop out in Singapore NEM's program. KWIM ?

 

Also some parents aren't interested in support groups. My sister doesn't go on one. Doesn't make her a bad homeschool mom. She just calls me for support , and sometimes parent's don't know about it or they just don't want support. I've learned that in my life. To each his own.

 

I think sometimes in those situations homeschooling is a string for these parents to grab onto out of desperation in hopes to not have their child drop out of school.

 

I also think that not all homeschooling parents are motivated to be the best they could be. Probably out of laziness I'm sure. All I know is that I thank God everyday knowing that I crave to learn more with my children and I want the best for them. Not everyone wants that , we live in a very materialistic world where children are an extension of what people have and not part of what we are. Alot of people think of their children as just that other thing they have to deal with today. While they are stuck on themselves or their careers. Its sad but its reality.

[titianmom]

Hi all,

 

I started this thread elsewhere in SALE of all places like a ninny, so I'm moving it to the proper board.

 

Here goes--and remember, this isn't a slam to any family but a general, broad view of what I see happening in the homeschooling world. So please don't take this personally. Thanks!

-----------

 

I have this concern. It has just developed lately. I thought I'd share it with you all and ask what you think.

 

As we homeschooling moms who have been around for a while know, the homeschooling community has fought pretty hard to gain any amount of respect from the public and academic community.

 

I remember starting out in homeschooling, sitting in my local support group amongst humble, talented, old-timer homeschooling moms who started homeschooling when no one was doing it, using whatever materials they could dig up from either the public school systems or could write on their own.

 

Most of their children were grown and successfully off to college and wow'ing their professors, etc. Their mothers could honestly say that, by the grace of God, they'd done their job and had done it well.

 

These ladies deserve our respect, and I feel we need to honor them by keeping the homeschooling tradition alive and well and respected by doing our best by our children, too, by really teaching them and keeping the standards of our education as high as we possibly can.

 

So what am I trying to get at? Here's some questions to ponder:

 

Do you think the amount and quality of the homeschooling curriculum is consistantly high across the board, or pretty hit and miss? I realize everyone has their favorites, but I'm wondering about the reality that everyone and their Uncle, it seems, is writing and publishing curriculum. I don't know how much money they're making doing this--for all I know they're breaking even, at best. But I see some good stuff and some not so good stuff, and I wonder sometimes about the future of homeschooling.

 

Do you think that there is a trend emerging in curriculum geared to making it easier to homeschool with less involvement of the parent? Is this good or bad? Surely it's a break for busy moms with multiple children, but is it a good thing academically? Or will it really matter in the end?

 

Lastly, homeschooling is getting more and more popular and accepted in most parts. Thank the Lord! But, could this actually mean that, as more and more people from all backgrounds homeschool their kids, the statistics favoring homeschooled children will actually shift and perhaps becoming even with the stats we see with PS'd kids in the future?

 

Think about this. I am, LOL. I personally feel that there's a possibility that we will eventually even out with brick and mortar schools, statistically. We are only slightly above the average, now. It isn't like it's 50 % higher or anything.

 

So, what do you all think?

 

Thanks,

Kim

[TracyR]

I think in the end though that we will always have to fight for our homeschooling rights . Like one poster said there is always going to be someone that will circumnavigate the system.There always is and there isn't much that can be done about it.

 

I don't think we have to needlessly worry because there are fewer bad homeschoolers and MORE good homeschoolers out there.

[Mom to Aly]

I think you're worrying needlessly, and I think you're passing a lot of judgment on the families you're running across.

 

I can only think of 1 wrong reason to homeschool, and that is because you want to keep your kid at home locked in a room and abuse them--you know, the kind of stories that hit the news now and again that make us all cringe. Just because someone has a different reason than me for homeschooling doesn't make it invalid.

 

How do you know what these kids know when you meet them? Do you quiz them? Or do they just know different stuff than what you're looking for?

:iagree:

 

In the nicest way possible, I agree. My daughter seems to just absorb what we are teaching. We start out with a math technique, and before I can explain it all, she has got it. I was the same--in geometry, before we were ever shown proofs, I could figure them out, a longer way, sometimes, but I got them. My daughter is years ahead, many years ahead, in reading, which has made her years ahead in spelling and vocab. I don't do those subjects because we don't need to (I list Spelling Power, but have only used it to test for grade level so far), so that frees us up a ton. She is also years ahead in grammar, all I have to do is teach her the terms. That gives us more free time than many, and many might question that, but she is certainly not lacking in any type of education.

 

Plus, I don't feel American History is the most important in the world, and I don't feel our two hundred years of history should get the same amount of teaching time as more than two thousand years of world history. We also don't have the same religion or cultural background as many here, so that changes a lot of what we study. We are studying a different language, and the order of what we have decided to study might seem very different to many. Someone asked my daughter recently who Neil Armstrong was, and was shocked that she didn't know (although, strangely, she read about him 3 days later), but I highly doubt that person at age 9 had the kind of detailed knowledge my daughter does of the Buddha and a mandala, or of Abraham Lincoln (her fave in American history), or of Ancient India, etc.

 

It would be like me speaking to a physics teacher, and his asking me a formula for... anything, see, I don't know what he would ask me for, and me responding in French--neither of us would understand the other, because neither of us knows the others area of expertise. That doesn't mean that either of us is lacking in education. See what I mean?

 

Plus, honestly, it isn't your place to judge anyone. Not meant harshly, but it sounded as if that is exactly what you were doing. If they are doing an unschooling method, or whatever, that is their right, and no one can say their method is any better, or worse, than yours.. I personally think homeschoolers are not held accountable for enough subjects (testing wise). I live in a state where, if you file a religious exemption one time, that is it, the state rights you off and never looks at you again, & I think that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard--but I have no say in that. The states make the rules, I just have to follow them.

 

You wonder why we aren't held more accountable--look at a state like PA, where they dictate basically everything, including how many days and hours you must remain in the classroom, and content that you teach--I know I wouldn't prefer that--that is basically teaching their school at home. So, when I look at that, I do prefer our laws remain as they are, than be like in PA.

 

And, if worse comes to worse, you wonder what homeschoolers will be later on? Probably, no matter what, statistically better than public schooled overall, because no matter how many kids have below par educations at home, I'm sure there will be many more who get them in a public school, and, unfortunately, I don't see any miracle workers on their way to changing that.

[Niffercoo]

I can understand your concerns. I share them, to some extent, though my reasons are different.

 

You see, I have 2 special needs children. I work very hard with them. VERY hard. However they are behind academically. Well, I'm not sure if you could count Reece as being behind just yet, but she will be! And Austin tests poorly. I mean, reall bad. As in, 20th percentile, and that was a huge increase over the previous year's scores. And if you saw either of my special needs children, probably even if you interacted with them in a class or out in public, unless you knew a LOT about autism spectrum disorders, you would probably never know that they have it.

 

So you'd probably assume that they aren't being well-educated. And if you saw one of them have a meltdown (like my little one did at the ballpark tonight after her brother's game... transitions are such difficult things for her), you also could assume that I don't discipline well either.

 

You'd be mistaken on both counts. (And I read your original post on the swap board so I may be addressing those topics a little more than your current, more broad topic. But it's very important to me, so I'm going to continue on.)

 

And that's why I'm concerned. I am concerned that people think that all homeschoolers are brilliant and advanced. I'm concerned that homeschoolers even think that if other homeschoolers aren't advanced, then the parents aren't doing a good job! There was a thread a few weeks back asking our kids' test scores. I could have answered that, but what good would it have done. One child is 20th percentile. One child is 90th percentile. One child is too young to be tested yet. What does that say about me as a homeschooler? Am I good? Am I bad?

 

As homeschooling becomes more popular, people will do it who have children who are falling through the cracks in public education. And those children, and many other children, may not achieve at high levels no matter HOW involved their parent is with their education! In just the last few years, the numbers of children on the spectrum who are being homeschooled seems to have grown significantly! I think this is absolutely fantastic! Homeschooling can be wonderful for children on the spectrum, especially those who might not be severely enough affected to get many services at school. But they aren't going to do much to make homeschooling look good in the eyes of people who are concerned about test scores or social aptitude.

 

I would love for all homeschoolers to do their best for their child's education. I used to assume that anyone who chose to homeschool did so because they cared deeply about their child's education, but I have learned otherwise. So it disturbs me to think that people might look at my children and think we're tarnishing the image of homeschooling.

 

I'll be interested to read the other replies.

[titianmom]

And excellent points. I guess, as I'm trying to rethink things and reposted under the other thread, I'm just wondering if the future is more of an acceptance and blending of schooling between the brick and mortar and homeschooling.

 

You're going to get all kinds of people homeschooling for all kinds of reasons, of course. I just see a balancing in the end, IMHO. The uniqueness will be gone, and there may even be more and more cooperation between government instituted education and homeschooling, for good or bad???

 

 

Frightening thought??!! I moved the thread to the general board, BTW.

[titianmom]

:iagree:

 

Plus, honestly, it isn't your place to judge anyone.

 

And, if worse comes to worse, you wonder what homeschoolers will be later on? Probably, no matter what, statistically better than public schooled overall, because no matter how many kids have below par educations at home, I'm sure there will be many more who get them in a public school, and, unfortunately, I don't see any miracle workers on their way to changing that.

 

Thanks for your input. I've continued it in a better vein, I hope, in the general board if you're interested.

 

Do you think that the numbers between PS'd kids and homeschool kids will stay pretty much the same, roughly? Were you PS'd? I was and survived, but that was a long time ago.

 

Again, don't want to get off on a bunny trail again, so follow the thread, if you want, in the general board.

 

Thanks!

Kim

[Alenee]

Hi all,

 

I started this thread elsewhere in SALE of all places like a ninny, so I'm moving it to the proper board.

 

Here goes--and remember, this isn't a slam to any family but a general, broad view of what I see happening in the homeschooling world. So please don't take this personally. Thanks!

-----------

 

I have this concern. It has just developed lately. I thought I'd share it with you all and ask what you think.

 

As we homeschooling moms who have been around for a while know, the homeschooling community has fought pretty hard to gain any amount of respect from the public and academic community.

 

I remember starting out in homeschooling, sitting in my local support group amongst humble, talented, old-timer homeschooling moms who started homeschooling when no one was doing it, using whatever materials they could dig up from either the public school systems or could write on their own.

 

Most of their children were grown and successfully off to college and wow'ing their professors, etc. Their mothers could honestly say that, by the grace of God, they'd done their job and had done it well.

 

These ladies deserve our respect, and I feel we need to honor them by keeping the homeschooling tradition alive and well and respected by doing our best by our children, too, by really teaching them and keeping the standards of our education as high as we possibly can.

 

So what am I trying to get at? Here's some questions to ponder:

 

Do you think the amount and quality of the homeschooling curriculum is consistantly high across the board, or pretty hit and miss? I realize everyone has their favorites, but I'm wondering about the reality that everyone and their Uncle, it seems, is writing and publishing curriculum. I don't know how much money they're making doing this--for all I know they're breaking even, at best. But I see some good stuff and some not so good stuff, and I wonder sometimes about the future of homeschooling.

 

Do you think that there is a trend emerging in curriculum geared to making it easier to homeschool with less involvement of the parent? Is this good or bad? Surely it's a break for busy moms with multiple children, but is it a good thing academically? Or will it really matter in the end?

 

Lastly, homeschooling is getting more and more popular and accepted in most parts. Thank the Lord! But, could this actually mean that, as more and more people from all backgrounds homeschool their kids, the statistics favoring homeschooled children will actually shift and perhaps becoming even with the stats we see with PS'd kids in the future?

 

Think about this. I am, LOL. I personally feel that there's a possibility that we will eventually even out with brick and mortar schools, statistically. We are only slightly above the average, now. It isn't like it's 50 % higher or anything.

 

So, what do you all think?

 

Thanks,

Kim

 

This may sound rude...I honestly don't mean it to be. I do believe the old-time homeschoolers deserve our respect for getting the laws to be what they are now. Their particular homeschool journey though belongs to them and them alone. I do have respect for that, more than I can say. However, my journey is my journey before the Lord. I try my best not to care how my kids measure up to anyone's standards but the Lord's and my own.

 

I purposely look for the best of the best when it comes to curriculum but that is subjective. What I deem the best, another mom may think the worst.

 

I also disagree that homeschooling is becoming more accepted. I just spoke with a lady yesterday who thinks you need to be trained for several years before being allowed to teach a child. I think "accepted" is the wrong word..."tolerated" yes, but not necessarily accepted.

 

I also don't think we're going to have a huge surge in homeschoolers. It steadily grows, but so does the amount of children entering public/private school. IMO, homeschooling will always be the "odd" way.

 

I know I'm dissecting your post and I don't mean to sound negative, however I wonder if your concerns are truly valid. I know that when it's all over I will be able to "honestly say that by the grace of God I've done my job and done it well," however that too can be dissected by anyone with an opinion. I think sometimes questions such as you've posted can put an unnecessary burden on parents.

 

We should not be out to show the world how great we are because we can homeschool successfully. No one lives our lives for us. We can do our best with the tools and gifts God has given us and the rest of the world can like us or dislike us. When we do that, we can all say that by the grace of God, we've done our job and done it well and we can do that whether we chose an easier or harder curriculum, used co-ops, home-links, tutors, etc.

 

ETA: I thought about what I said and I'll re-phrase on one point. People, whoever they are deserve respect. My personal feeling on what you stated though is that we as homeschoolers should not feel a burden to live up to a homeschool pioneer's expectations. We do what we do, the best way we know how.

[titianmom]

I stand corrected and you have a point.

 

One thing we all have to remember ( I try too, honest) is to see the entire picture. I know some of these families very well and I know their backgrounds, etc and I know that some of these parents come from difficult backgrounds, for ex, and need all the support that we can give them.

 

Also, I know what it's like to be "dis'ed", believe me, over appearances.

 

My sickness last year was severe arthritis that hit me over night. I had to drop out of teaching Sunday School and leading the puppet ministry, etc. Most of the people were understanding.

 

But...

 

Some, who couldn't "SEE" my illness, nearly accused me of dropping out of ministry because I simply didn't want to do the work and I wasn't really all that sick. I'm not kidding.

 

They went by my smile and the fact that I made an effort to get there every week, and assumed I wasn't that bad off. Didn't matter that I had to have help getting dressed, couldn't put on my own shoes, couldn't get out of the bed by myself, etc.

 

We can't go by what we see, and for that I repent...and remember.

 

Thanks for the reminder!

Kim

 

 

I can understand your concerns. I share them, to some extent, though my reasons are different.

 

You see, I have 2 special needs children. I work very hard with them. VERY hard. However they are behind academically. Well, I'm not sure if you could count Reece as being behind just yet, but she will be! And Austin tests poorly. I mean, reall bad. As in, 20th percentile, and that was a huge increase over the previous year's scores. And if you saw either of my special needs children, probably even if you interacted with them in a class or out in public, unless you knew a LOT about autism spectrum disorders, you would probably never know that they have it.

 

So you'd probably assume that they aren't being well-educated. And if you saw one of them have a meltdown (like my little one did at the ballpark tonight after her brother's game... transitions are such difficult things for her), you also could assume that I don't discipline well either.

 

You'd be mistaken on both counts. (And I read your original post on the swap board so I may be addressing those topics a little more than your current, more broad topic. But it's very important to me, so I'm going to continue on.)

 

And that's why I'm concerned. I am concerned that people think that all homeschoolers are brilliant and advanced. I'm concerned that homeschoolers even think that if other homeschoolers aren't advanced, then the parents aren't doing a good job! There was a thread a few weeks back asking our kids' test scores. I could have answered that, but what good would it have done. One child is 20th percentile. One child is 90th percentile. One child is too young to be tested yet. What does that say about me as a homeschooler? Am I good? Am I bad?

 

As homeschooling becomes more popular, people will do it who have children who are falling through the cracks in public education. And those children, and many other children, may not achieve at high levels no matter HOW involved their parent is with their education! In just the last few years, the numbers of children on the spectrum who are being homeschooled seems to have grown significantly! I think this is absolutely fantastic! Homeschooling can be wonderful for children on the spectrum, especially those who might not be severely enough affected to get many services at school. But they aren't going to do much to make homeschooling look good in the eyes of people who are concerned about test scores or social aptitude.

 

I would love for all homeschoolers to do their best for their child's education. I used to assume that anyone who chose to homeschool did so because they cared deeply about their child's education, but I have learned otherwise. So it disturbs me to think that people might look at my children and think we're tarnishing the image of homeschooling.

 

I'll be interested to read the other replies.

[titianmom]

THis is exactly what I'm looking for. I want honest feedback ;).

 

You know, I think the HSLDA is trying to come up with the current face of homeschooling. I think it'll be reeeeaally interested to read.

 

My family thought I was nuts to homeschool, and I have the same views about schooling as you do, by the way.

 

And I never think that I"m better because I'm a homeschooler. Most of my peers don't homeschool and we share our experiences all the time about our kids and where they are in school. We try to help each other.

 

I'm just looking at some attitudes that I run across sometimes. Some folks are afraid of the PS system altogether and treat it like the evil empire.

 

I was PS'd and most of us here were PS'd. I'm not nec afraid of PS. I think it needs improvement, but there are a lot of people who have to use the PS system and they're Christian.

 

So sometimes the homeschooler's attitude toward PS'd kids isn't none too good, either. We can treat them like their parents don't care as much about them as homeschool parents care about their kids, and that's wrong, too.

 

But again, I'm digressing. I'm trying to picture the face of homeschool in about 10 years.

 

Do you think the government (state/local, etc) is very slowly coming around to accepting homeschooling or will we need HSLDA for a long time to come?

 

I'm guessing your ans will be for a long long time to come ;)

 

THanks!

Kim

 

This may sound rude...I honestly don't mean it to be. The only thing I think the old-time homeschoolers deserve our respect for is getting the laws to be what they are now. Their particular homeschool journey though belongs to them and them alone. I do have respect for that, more than I can say. However, my journey is my journey before the Lord. I try my best not to care how my kids measure up to anyone's standards but the Lord's and my own.

 

I purposely look for the best of the best when it comes to curriculum but that is subjective. What I deem the best, another mom may think the worst.

 

I also disagree that homeschooling is becoming more accepted. I just spoke with a lady yesterday who thinks you need to be trained for several years before being allowed to teach a child. I think "accepted" is the wrong word..."tolerated" yes, but not necessarily accepted.

 

I also don't think we're going to have a huge surge in homeschoolers. It steadily grows, but so does the amount of children entering public/private school. IMO, homeschooling will always be the "odd" way.

 

I know I'm dissecting your post and I don't mean to sound negative, however I wonder if your concerns are truly valid. I know that when it's all over I will be able to "honestly say that by the grace of God I've done my job and done it well," however that too can be dissected by anyone with an opinion. I think sometimes questions such as you've posted can put an unnecessary burden on parents.

 

We should not be out to show the world how great we are because we can homeschool successfully. No one lives our lives for us. We can do our best with the tools and gifts God has given us and the rest of the world can like us or dislike us. When we do that, we can all say that by the grace of God, we've done our job and done it well and we can do that whether we chose an easier or harder curriculum, used co-ops, home-links, tutors, etc.

[paula j]

I do not know if homeschooling will become the norm, but I do understand what you are saying about curriculum, seems like there is so much out there now. I try to use things that have stood the test of time as much as possible. I'm sure alot of the new stuff is quite good and some is probably superior but I like to use things that already have the wrinkles ironed out so to speak.

[titianmom]

Carli, you said:

 

"I think sometimes questions such as you've posted can put an unnecessary burden on parents."

 

I understand what you're saying and I knew before I ever started down this road that I was treading on thin ice, believe me.

 

It is sooo tough just being a parent, and we add to the job by being a math teacher, a science teacher, a LA teacher... SHEESH! ARE WE NUTS!?

 

:)

 

I'm really not trying to do that, honest. Again, it's comments that I hear from homeschool moms that kinda disturb me sometimes, and their reasons that they're homeschooling, which I really *don't* want to get into, here.

 

But I will try to be more generous.

 

 

I believe the VAST majority of homeschool parents *do* do their very best, whether they're trying to handle challenged kids and are barely hanging on (the county would know this), or have kids that are ahead that need to be set free to explore all of their options.

 

Not nec for the sake of homeschool (which I was trying to remind folks of--the past), but for their children's sake.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

BTW, do you have stats on the growth of the schools? I thought our populations was pretty stable in this country. Thanks,

 

Kim

[Amy in Orlando]

When we started homeschooling (*gasp* nine years ago) I had no clue, just a feeling I could do better for my kids. After our first year, I picked up a copy of TWTM. I followed it almost to a "T" the following year. It worked. I had to tweak it, sure, but it worked. All, save one, of my friends have their kids in public or private school. I've never presented homeschooling as superior or tried to bring them to the dark side. It's just what we do and they accept that. (Mostly, I KNOW they think we're weird and I can only imagine the conversations that go on when we're not around lol. But, I need only point to my well-socialized, mostly-normal teenagers if I feel like arguing.)

 

In ten years? Interesting. I see a lot more regulation. The public schools have caught on (and good for them) and are offereing virtual schools, part-time school and all manner of things. The longer I do this, the more I see a melding of "cultures." Good, bad? I'm not sure. Personally, I like having control over content and subject manner, but as my kids hit high school, I'm grateful for the virtual driver's ed and the science offerings.

 

I don't like to think about HSDLA (I always mix up the letters) representing me and their constant "role" in the media and as lobbyists is a little disconcerting.

[Jeanne in MN]

First, I must say I feel bad that some of these responses (here and at the For Sale board) come across as a bit harsh and/or defensive. I don't know as I saw you as judging other homeschoolers. I think you bring up some legitimate concerns.

 

I don't know as I have a whole lot of opinion on the curriculum aspect of your post-I pretty much go by what's recommended here and I feel what we use is of pretty good quality.

 

As far as the future of homeschooling, I think the face of homeschooling very well could change. Everything does. I've read about the history of the early homeschoolers and I believe you sincerely had to be dedicated to your reasons for homeschooling to have to dodge the neighbors and the law as they had to. It took a serious commitment.

 

I personally believe that homeschooling is becoming more acceptable and more common. Even if there are people who don't accept it, there are still many who do accept it and actually consider it whereas, 10 -20 years ago, I don't know if the same people would have. But I don't know, so I honestly can't say. Just opinion.

 

I think homeschooling laws *could* get more lax down the road. I think more people could do it who don't necessarily do it for the best reasons OR don't do it with the best discipline needed to do it. People are people and and as with anything there will be those who do it well and those who don't.

 

On the other hand, homeschooling laws could get stricter too. I don't know, but I guess changes don't surprise me much; it happens and people adjust. I don't have any predictions, but I do believe it can change and it's wise to always be aware of what's going on in the hsing field.

[WTMindy]

In my experience, I don't think that homeschoolers have a reputation for being advanced. I think as it has become more mainstreamed, there are people with students all across the boards. I teach in a public school parent partnership program and I see extremely smart, advanced students and I also see very low students. I think that the demographic is now much more like you would see in any school. You have the whole spectrum. I don't think this is a bad thing. The only time that I get a little upset is when I see teen age students that don't have the skills that they will need for their future because their parents don't expect anything of them.

[Alenee]

No I honestly don't have any statistics about growth, however if you look at the media about it in general, schools are over-crowded and class sizes are getting larger, new schools are being built (unfortunately not fast enough) to accomadate. I don't mean that more people are choosing ps over something else, but that each year, the number of kids enrolled in general is growing.

[Night Elf]

I'm not quite sure how to answer this, especially since I'm in the minority on this board. We're unschoolers. We use curriculum as tools and resources but never follow the programs exactly. I'm much more interested in exposing my children to lots of ideas and allowing them to be free to explore, live and learn happily. My DH and I are not impressed with the schoolish way of thinking, that a certain set of facts need to be memorized and/or mastered by certain ages. We believe that schoolish activity is teaching to tests. We don't consider that to be true education. Honestly, I'm not terribly impressed with high test scores. I have a teenage daughter who has always been in the school system, and on the gifted track since 7th grade. She makes stellar grades. She proves to the school time and time again that she can regurgitate facts on tests. But I know she doesn't retain much that she doesn't have a personal interest in knowing. That was the same way my DH and I were in school too. We could make good grades, but the grades don't reflect true learning.

 

I suppose we're one of those families that you think let our children run wild. We have no limits. We eat when we want, sleep when we want, play when we want, read when we want, etc. My kids are polite and incredibly helpful. They do things around the house and for each other because it's the environment they've grown up in, not because there is some checklist they must complete. We don't feel our job is to prepare them for the real world. Our children *live* in the real world with us. They are learning through modeling.

 

I'm not one to jump on the homeschooling bandwagon. I don't think every family should homeschool and I most certainly don't believe every homeschooling family should be "teaching" the same things. Basically, families should get to choose how to bring up their own children. I am indeed sad for those children who are neglected, abused and any other number of unfortunate circumstances, but I don't think having everyone answer to one big code is the right thing to do. I would NOT be happy if someone came to my door and told me how to educate my children. So in order to keep my freedom, I understand that others must have freedom as well.

[Sarah CB]

I was listening to a session from a homeschool convention on cd a while ago. The comment that struck me the most was this one.

 

"Parents used to call and ask, 'What is the best curriculum out there for x?' Now they call and ask, 'What curriculum is the easiest to teach?'" "Easiest to teach" in the sense of requiring the least time on the part of the parent.

 

I thought that was very telling.

 

I'm a curriculum consultant and this is something I come across far too often. They want something their kids can do independently. I try to stress that parental involvement is the biggest factor in student motivation and success and that it's a good idea to at least have a couple of subjects where the parent is more involved.

 

I train teachers in homeschooling so that they understand homeschoolers and are able to support and encourage them in their journey. The last time I spoke I felt like choking on the statistics. In the four years I've been doing this the homeschoolers we're seeing have changed. Now it's easy to homeschool.

 

I'm not sure that's a good thing.

[gardenschooler]

I think you're worrying needlessly, and I think you're passing a lot of judgment on the families you're running across.

 

I can only think of 1 wrong reason to homeschool, and that is because you want to keep your kid at home locked in a room and abuse them--you know, the kind of stories that hit the news now and again that make us all cringe. Just because someone has a different reason than me for homeschooling doesn't make it invalid.

 

How do you know what these kids know when you meet them? Do you quiz them? Or do they just know different stuff than what you're looking for?

 

Just because you wouldn't use a self-teaching curriculum doesn't make it ineffective. It doesn't mean the parents aren't involved. And some people don't homeschool for a superior rigorous education, and that's okay, too.

 

I've never finished a math book in 4 years with 3 different boys. That doesn't mean they don't know math. I've never designed my own curriculum.

 

I would assume the counties let the running around go on because the families are not violating any laws.

 

And all of the above is said gently and kindly, just to clarify my tone :001_smile:. I've been interrupted at least a gazillion times and I'm making dinner at the same time :001_smile:.

 

:iagree: With pretty much everything you've said, Judomom.

 

I used to design my own curriculum to a certain degree, but so what? It wasn't any better or worse than anything else. Maybe I liked it better, but there are a few programs on the market now that look very similar to what I did (I didn't have the internet, or much money).

 

Also, some of the things you mentioned, such as a lack of rigor, or using a boxed curriculum that may not be the 'best', have been around for as long as I can remember. Not everyone that was homeschooling years ago was doing it the way you described.

 

How do you feel about unschooling? Because that was very popular in the 80s. Still is, with plenty of people. I've met a few unschoolers who put me and my well-planned out school to shame. Their kids were really learning - mine were just reading about it!

 

I do see a large amount of people beginning to homeschool now because they've finally decided they're unhappy with their school. Maybe they're not all that prepared, because they are jumping in midway through the school years. So what? Does it mean they'll do a lesser job than those of us who juggled pregnancies, babies and toddlers while learning how to homeschool?

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I'm not sure that the true legal defense of homeschooling runs along the lines of proving it works based on the students test scores. I think that the defense derives from the parents' rights to choose from a variety of options how and where they wish their children to be educated.

 

I don't always agree with what I see other homeschool families doing or how well-educated I think their children nor do I think they all agree with me or our program. However, I don't think that, ultimately, I get to judge the quality or quantity of their program and vice versa.

 

I'm not sure that when people want something "easy" they are trying to cop-out. There is such a variety of choice and curriculum available that it is overwhelming. Imagine having no experience, pulling your kids out of PS and being handed the Rainbow Resource and Sonlight catalogs and given this boards web address. If I had looked at TOG on day one I might have been terrified. I think they want something they can do, that doesn't consume their entire lives and something that will benefit their kids. If you ask for the "best" program in subject x on this board today you'll get a huge variety of opinions I bet 5 or 10 years ago that would have been very different.

 

Of course there are people and companies jumping onto the homeschooling market to make a profit. That is the nature of the beast-how many science fiction/fantasy series were published after Harry Potter became popular? Every publisher had to jump on that gold mine even if the books weren't always very good. Thus the discerning educator is forced to choose.

 

I don't think that, no matter how well educated our homeschooled children are nor how high quality our materials, everyone will accept or understand our educational choice. To respect it is another hurdle altogether. I do worry about keeping our choice legal and that is another issue. Thankfully those who went before me helped us over this hurdle!

[Trivium Academy]

I completely understand what you're saying and to a certain degree, I wholeheartedly agree. My brother (no hs diploma, no GED) and his wife (unsure about her educational level) decided they were fed up with dealing with the public school and started homeschooling. A year after we started, if that is a factor, I don't know.

 

I was so excited to learn that they were embarking on the journey, that when I visited them I decided to bring my teacher's book so I could share with my SIL what we were doing. I left that visit feeling sick.

 

I walked into a home that was filthy, cigarette smoke hung in the air, the sink full of dishes with stuff growing inside. The TV was blaring a rated R movie, I had my kids with me so I asked for it to be changed. Their baby and preschooler were watching this curse word laden movie, while their 9 year old was on the computer. They pulled her out of school because the teacher was concerned about her, as she might have a learning disability which also affects her behavior.

 

They are using a software based product with their 9yo and part of me was like, "Eww, why would you want to do that??" but reality set in, if they are going to homeschool, a computer based system will probably be the best thing for their 9yo. She won't be dependent on her parents to excel although my heart ached for her, she won't be read to, have discussions and build a bond with her parents. Because I like to put my foot in my mouth at times, I asked about this. "What do YOU contribute to her education?"

 

The response I received was this, "We can't afford for [wife/SIL] to be just a housewife, she has to work a real job so we can afford to live."

 

So, yes I see your concern and agree with it to a certain point. But, I still wish to hold onto to the notion that responsible parents will responsibly take care of their children's education. The problem is that when we put conditions on that, it must be done *this* way in order to be ___________________. Isn't that the same as allowing the state to put more regulations?

 

So even though I cringe at the thought of what my niece is learning and how her experience will end up, I have to be thankful that she's able to do it and in turn, that I'm able to teach my own kids. If her education were to be regulated, so would ours.

[8filltheheart]

Kim,

 

I understand your POV and I totally agree with you. I have been homeschooling for 15 yrs and I see a shift.

 

Like all things, though, as the population pool increases, you are going to have a more "statistically representative" set of outcomes. You should expect to see a more typical bell curve which will include a shift downward since the purported "homeschoolers perform better" median has been based on an atypical population. As homeschooling becomes more mainstream, the homeschooling population is becoming a more generalized statistical sample (though homeschooling is still not really mainstream, it is not comparable to yrs ago when the majority of Americans had never heard of homeschooling).

 

I also think there is a false sense of security amongst the homeschooling populace at large that institutionalized schools fail children and that all parents can do it better. It is not an accurate assessment in either direction. Schools do succeed in providing quality education. Parents do fail. It is not an all-or-nothing position in either camp.

 

The comments that others have made about not needing to worry about it or that it isn't your concern are inaccurate. Many universities are re-evaluating their homeschool admission policies b/c there is a shift in how successful homeschoolers are performing at the university level. This is an extremely telling sign. As they place higher burdens of proof on quality of ed, you are going to have to make sure your child meets those "proofs" if your family has those unis as a goal.

 

Ultimately, the best course of action is to focus on your own homeschool efforts and plan on validating your child's education via SAT IIs, CLEPs, and APs if higher educational goals include competitive universities. If your child's transcript and scores reflect the academic quality, than what is occuring in the general homeschooling populace at large shouldn't have a significant impact.

 

The main difference is that when planning my oldest's high school courses, I didn't incorporate those tests/objectives into our homeschool. I am with my younger crew. I don't want a homeschooling transcript to limit their university selections.

 

BTW.......yes, I am aware that many colleges are openly friendly and recruit homeschoolers. That doesn't negate what is happening within other university systems. It all boils down to the goals of individual families. Your job as parent/teacher/guidance counselor is going to have to expand to knowing what is happening in higher academia (in addition to yearly educational goals) if that is a goal for your family.

[angela in ohio]

I also think there is a false sense of security amongst the homeschooling populace at large that institutionalized schools fail children and that all parents can do it better. It is not an accurate assessment in either direction. Schools do succeed in providing quality education. Parents do fail. It is not an all-or-nothing position in either camp.

 

 

I agree with much of what the OP said, and I really agree with the above quote. I talked with a mom who put her ds in school in fifth grade, and she was shocked at how much was expected of him. She has since ramped up her homeschooling with her other dc (and she was academic to begin with.) The "anything we do is better than they would get at school" mentality is rampant.

 

All I can do is teach my dc like I need to, and help out the homeschoolers who see something different in my family and come to me for help. I also try to put my POV out there in homeschool groups, and although it is rejected by most homeschoolers, I hope it will help someone.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I believe your observations are legitimate. Here are some of mine.

 

Curriculum is getting easier, more plentiful and there is a lot more stuff out there. Not all quality, while some are better now than before. For someone with experience, it matters very little. For a newbie, it can be overwhelming and offer too light a load, giving the false impression that home schooling is easy. News for some, I'm sure, but home schooling is hard work. It doesn't get easier the older they get. The teaching (confidence I mean) may get easier, but the work load gets heavier, until they are working totally independently. So, as I march through the 9th year, I am working my buns off trying to get ready for what is to come. I suppose, if I had fewer children, it may be less work, but I would still have to give the same focus and effort. So, if you are out there in cyberspace and think home schooling is a breeze and requires little time, I would wonder about the quality of education, particularly in Upper elementary and beyond (I know lower elem. takes little time). I say this not to be flippant, but because it is the attitude I have witnessed in the hsing community. Everyone paints this picture of a few hours a day breeds a rocket scientist that is a master in the classics, enjoys the finest literature, excels in piano, dance and plays sports, all while debating their way to a college scholarship.......all in just a few hours a day.....um I don't think so.

 

I also have witnessed as a teacher in a hs co-op, that there were hs kids in 4-6th grades, in a speech and journalism class, that couldn't write paragraphs or know what the parts of speech were. They couldn't meet a single deadline (with 1 month to finish very simple projects). All the while, the parents staunchly busted on public school education and thought themselves wonderful b/c they were home schooling. Just after (this summer) I have ps kids in my house, schooling with my children b/c they want to be here, that are in the same position. So much for a better education.

 

I also witness those sweet innocent children, in 5th grade, that are clueless to life outside of their upperclass judeo christian bubble. These parents are keeping their children home to shelter them (they say such), all the while, they are slackers in school b/c they are busy exercising, going to bible studies, arranging field trips and play dates. They themselves know they are slacking, but school is not a priority.

 

I am sad to say I know fewer families who are dedicated to the big picture. They put in hours. Research before buying curriculum and are producing great kids. Not great b/c they know so much, but great b/c they love to learn, do know lots of different stuff, are close families, and take seriously the responsibility of home schooling.

 

Evaluations can be a problem. Don't know the solution either. Some are so "home school" friendly that they confuse the outcome of slacking parents for a gentle, child paced learning environment and easily dismiss poor results. I understand results are not always congruent to effort, in good or bad direction, which is why ultimately, the responsibility falls back to the parent.

 

Ultimately, I am deeply concerned about the future of hsing. I think as the less dedicated continue to add to the pool, the test scores will drop. I also have heard from friends whose kiddos are heading to college that the "colleges love home schoolers" thing is in the past. Colleges are on to the possibility that not all home schoolers are created equal. I wish more veterans were willing to rock the boat and encourage higher standards.

 

I am also concerned about virtual schools, part-time university style (like veritas) b/c while I don't object to them as schools, I do believe they bring an entirely new category to education and are quite different from home schools. I believe they will bring among us, greater regulation.

 

In the end, I am seriously considering getting my teaching degree. Not because I think I need it, but because I am watching closely at regulation and wouldn't at all be surprised if I will need it b4 we are finished schooling, just so I can home school.

 

To those of you being responsible, :cheers2:, to those of you not, remember that although none of us love regulation, it is there, and how you represent home schooling does affect others. Please be responsible.

 

OP - you're not the only one seeing this, and unfortunately, I don't think it will get any better. Just remember what others have said, ultimately, it's between you and the Lord. Just make sure He can say to you, "Well done, good and faithful servant."

[Ellie]

As one of those pioneer moms, I can say that I think you're worrying too much :-)

 

People have always looked for an easy way out; that's why the ABeka Video School became so popular, and why BJUP started its HomeSat. It's why government-funded virtual schools, especially those using K12, have become so popular. On the bright side, dc who persevere through ABeka and BJUP do get a pretty good education, albeit IMHO they aren't getting the most that *homeschooling* offers, which is better than what school offers, even when it's school at home.

 

But then there are all the flavors of classical homeschoolers, and the unit study hsers, and the Charlotte Mason hsers, and the everything-in-between hsers. They make up the bulk of hsing.

 

And ITA with judomom:

I can only think of 1 wrong reason to homeschool, and that is because you want to keep your kid at home locked in a room and abuse them--you know, the kind of stories that hit the news now and again that make us all cringe. Just because someone has a different reason than me for homeschooling doesn't make it invalid.

I know people who started out because they were angry with the school--why does that make it a "wrong" reason?? It *might* be, but if they *continue* hsing, does it matter?

 

I flinch when I read comments from hsers wanting their little 6yo dc to work independently, but that's really not new. I cannot imagine plopping my young dc down in front of the television for several hours a day, or plugging them into the computer to do all their work. What is the point of hsing if you're not actually, you know, gonna teach your own dc? But the thing is that there have *always* been hsers who found their own way of doing as little as possible; it just looked different in 1982 than it does now. (When I owned an umbrella school, I did everything in my power to encourage my parents NOT to use SOS, or ABeka/BJUP dvd/video/satellite/whatever. In the end, however, they were the ones responsible for their dc's education.)

 

I'm thinking you should just ponder your own homeschooling efforts and let others ponder theirs. The truth is that there's nothing you can do, anyway. It will be fine.

[Ellie]

Clue me in.

 

:001_huh:

[homeschool2boys]

I can understand your concerns. I share them, to some extent, though my reasons are different.

 

You see, I have 2 special needs children. I work very hard with them. VERY hard. However they are behind academically. Well, I'm not sure if you could count Reece as being behind just yet, but she will be! And Austin tests poorly. I mean, reall bad. As in, 20th percentile, and that was a huge increase over the previous year's scores. And if you saw either of my special needs children, probably even if you interacted with them in a class or out in public, unless you knew a LOT about autism spectrum disorders, you would probably never know that they have it.

 

So you'd probably assume that they aren't being well-educated. And if you saw one of them have a meltdown (like my little one did at the ballpark tonight after her brother's game... transitions are such difficult things for her), you also could assume that I don't discipline well either.

 

You'd be mistaken on both counts. (And I read your original post on the swap board so I may be addressing those topics a little more than your current, more broad topic. But it's very important to me, so I'm going to continue on.)

 

And that's why I'm concerned. I am concerned that people think that all homeschoolers are brilliant and advanced. I'm concerned that homeschoolers even think that if other homeschoolers aren't advanced, then the parents aren't doing a good job! There was a thread a few weeks back asking our kids' test scores. I could have answered that, but what good would it have done. One child is 20th percentile. One child is 90th percentile. One child is too young to be tested yet. What does that say about me as a homeschooler? Am I good? Am I bad?

 

As homeschooling becomes more popular, people will do it who have children who are falling through the cracks in public education. And those children, and many other children, may not achieve at high levels no matter HOW involved their parent is with their education! In just the last few years, the numbers of children on the spectrum who are being homeschooled seems to have grown significantly! I think this is absolutely fantastic! Homeschooling can be wonderful for children on the spectrum, especially those who might not be severely enough affected to get many services at school. But they aren't going to do much to make homeschooling look good in the eyes of people who are concerned about test scores or social aptitude.

 

I would love for all homeschoolers to do their best for their child's education. I used to assume that anyone who chose to homeschool did so because they cared deeply about their child's education, but I have learned otherwise. So it disturbs me to think that people might look at my children and think we're tarnishing the image of homeschooling.

 

I'll be interested to read the other replies.

 

I am with you. I have two special needs kids myself, one with ADHD and one that is mentally retarded. I wonder what they would do to the test score averages?

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Honest truth- We don't belong to any homeschool groups and I have only a handful of friends in my town who homeschool. Why?

 

Mainly because I don't think I'm a better parent just because I homeschool. I am so sick of all the excuses- example

Mom1: "We 'haven't had time' for math all week."

Mom2: "It's okay, they are still getting more than the hour of instruction they would get in public school."

 

WHAT!?!?!?! Since these woman will not condescend to hang out with public school parents and won't "allow" their children to associate with kids who aren't homeschooled, how the heck do they know? The truth is that these poor public school kids are being worked to death, as are their teachers, in most cases. I'm not a fan of public school or bureaucracy in general, but public school teachers have been such a help to me over the years. I always ask my teacher friends questions, and they appreciate them. Yes, education is a gimmee major, but at least these women WENT to college, and many of them to GOOD colleges.

 

I don't get snide remarks from non-homeschool parents. Case in point- Something happened at my daughter's birthday party last weekend. The party helper asked all the girls what school they go to. Dd said she's homeschooled, and her mom came up to me a minute later and said, "I never would have guessed that she was homeschooled. You all just don't seem like the type."

 

So I replied, "I guess I should take that as a compliment."

 

And she said, "Oh yes, we have about 6 homeschoolers in our neighborhood. All of them are very rude. One of their kids told my ds when he asked them to play, 'We aren't allowed to play with you because your mom works."

 

I made sure to let the mom know all homeschoolers were not like her neighbors. I was so ashamed because I know this is commonplace in our area.

 

While I don't get snide remarks from public school parents, I have gotten several from other homeschoolers. My daughter doesn't go to the right dance studio (the one for homeschoolers). I don't need to be doing so much school- that's too much work for me and dd doesn't need to know all that stuff.

 

The apparent lack of education in many homeschooling families doesn't bother my husband and I nearly as much as the ability to critically think.

[Greta Lea]

In my area, homeschool tutorials have brought out a new "breed" of homeschoolers. It's folks who pull their dc from public or private school, but *really* don't want to do the teaching. They end up farming out the MAJORITY of their child's schooling and it's like pulling teeth to get the parents to do THEIR part.

 

These same folks who pull their kids from regular school want SO badly for their child to keep up with what their peers are doing at the school they pulled their kid from. Many of these kids have some kind of "issue", either learning or social issues. They weren't successfull in the traditional classroom, but for some reason their parents think that they can pull them from school and either sit them at their kitchen table, someone elses kitchen table or in a group at a tutorial a couple of times a week and magically have their child work just like their peers in regular school do.

 

IMO, they are setting their standards LOW if they are wanting what the public and private schools offer.

 

I've had these parents ask me what they can do to help their child with certain aspects of learning, like writing. When I suggest reading aloud to them, having them orally narrate and also doing dictation with them, they blow me off. I have children with learning issues that I homeschool and I've seen these things work, but this is not how our local schools do it, so they just blow you off. But then later, they are confused when they hear my kids say that they like to read, like to learn and enjoy "school".

 

The new "breed" of homeschoolers in my area make me want to scream! They just DO NOT get it. They want easy, quick fixes and answers. They are not interested in the deep relationship it takes to really homeschool and help your child learn, not just "do school".

[Rebecca in GA]

I've read through this with interest, though it certainly stung in a couple of places.

 

I take issue with the elitist attitude of the current homeschooling movement and in the unyielding attitude that if a homeschooler doesn't do things a certain way, he isn't a real homeschooler. This bothers me way more than "wrong" reasons to homeschool, "uneducated" homeschooling parents or "undereducated" homeschool students.

 

If homeschooling is about making the best educational choice for each child and parents having the right to make that choice, then why is there even any discussion about these issues? :confused:

[Greta Lea]

It's sad to see folks want the easy way out and I see that a LOT here. Although this is sad, when I talk to a mom whose pulled her kid from public or private (private schools are HUGE here) because of a bad situation, I AM happy for that child and family no matter how they end up homeschooling that child. Not physically being in a stressful place each day is wonderful for a child.

[elegantlion]

nm

[titianmom]

I hope I'm not hunted down and shot for starting this thread, esp since it's in the wrong place. And I'm not interested in wars, just understanding what's going on today that is different than it was when I first started. Hopefully the changes are for the good? :)

 

Hope you all moved to the general board where I've continued it.

 

At any rate,

 

I know our family is feeling the crunch these days with the prices going up everywhere, and gas probably not going down ever again. Probably will only keep going up.

 

I have had to change curriculum choices because of it. We're dipping into savings, too. What will homeschooling be like in 10 years?

 

Again, move on to the general board thread - The future of homeschooling--good or bad?

 

Kim

[titianmom]

Because of the price of buying one already done for me, and because they don't contain what I'm looking for. Mine is sometimes better but that's my own opinion.

 

Again, now I'm looking at the economy and how it is affecting people homeschooling. Thanks, go to the general board!

 

:iagree: With pretty much everything you've said, Judomom.

 

I used to design my own curriculum to a certain degree, but so what? It wasn't any better or worse than anything else. Maybe I liked it better, but there are a few programs on the market now that look very similar to what I did (I didn't have the internet, or much money).

 

 

[titianmom]

That's what i'm seeing. Yes, they're building more schools around here, but it's because of economics. People moving out of the cities because it's too expensive to live and moving into rural areas that aren't prepared for the numbers.

 

THere are trailers all over the place on school grounds here.

 

Again, economics, not population explosion, is driving the growth around here, anyway.

 

Kim

 

No I honestly don't have any statistics about growth, however if you look at the media about it in general, schools are over-crowded and class sizes are getting larger, new schools are being built (unfortunately not fast enough) to accomadate. I don't mean that more people are choosing ps over something else, but that each year, the number of kids enrolled in general is growing.

[titianmom]

IMO, they are setting their standards LOW if they are wanting what the public and private schools offer.

 

 

 

Some schools aren't very good, that's a given. But keep in mind that they handle a lot of kids and can't cover as much as a homeschooling family does in a given week--assuming the parents are diligent and covering the material faithfully.

 

Thanks,

 

We've moved to the general board. Last post for me! :)

[Rebecca in GA]

yyz