Interesting piece about purpose of college:

[Jenny in Florida]

Given how often we've discussed the value of a college degree and the purpose of higher education, I thought this might be of interest to some folks here.

 

(Never mind.)

Edited September 13, 2012 by Jenny in Florida

[justamouse]

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

Mike Rowe's Open Letter to Candidate Romney.

Though schizophrenic and void of any actual qualifications, my resume looks pretty impressive, and when our economy officially crapped the bed in 2008, I was perfectly positioned to weigh in on a variety of serious topics. A reporter from The Wall Street Journal called to ask what I thought about the “counter-intuitive correlation between rising unemployment and the growing shortage of skilled labor.” CNBC wanted my take on outsourcing. Fox News wanted my opinions on manufacturing and infrastructure. And CNN wanted to chat about currency valuations, free trade, and just about every other work-related problem under the sun.

 

In each case, I shared my theory that most of these “problems” were in fact symptoms of something more fundamental – a change in the way Americans viewed hard work and skilled labor. That’s the essence of what I’ve heard from the hundreds of men and women I’ve worked with on Dirty Jobs. Pig farmers, electricians, plumbers, bridge painters, jam makers, blacksmiths, brewers, coal miners, carpenters, crab fisherman, oil drillers…they all tell me the same thing over and over, again and again – our country has become emotionally disconnected from an essential part of our workforce. We are no longer impressed with cheap electricity, paved roads, and indoor plumbing. We take our infrastructure for granted, and the people who build it.

Edited September 12, 2012 by justamouse

[Jenny in Florida]

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

Mike Rowe's Open Letter to Candidate Romney.

 

I'm afraid I don't understand the connection?

[justamouse]

Any of the jobs that Mike Rowe lists needs higher thinking skills. You can't take a hammer and two nails and build a house. Running pipes or wires through a skyscraper (even a house) needs a lot of math, and that math must be logical. Through walls, around curves, you can't come up three inches short.

 

The author of the article is assuming college is the only way to accomplish this higher order learning. It's *a* way, not the only way.

 

Brewing beer is a formulation and fermentation and I'd blow up my house. All those things take talent and skill, hard work and thinking.

Edited September 12, 2012 by justamouse

[Jenny in Florida]

Any of the jobs that Mike Rowe lists needs higher thinking skills. You can't take a hammer and two nails and build a house. Running pipes or wires through a skyscraper (even a house) needs a lot of math, and that math must be logical. Through walls, around curves, you can't come up three inches short.

 

The author of the article is assuming college is the only way to accomplish this higher order learning. It's *a* way, not the only way.

 

Brewing beer is a formulation and fermentation and I'd blow up my house. All those things take talent and skill, hard work and thinking.

 

Huh.

 

See, I didn't get that out of the article at all.

 

I read it only as a response to the popular idea that college is about job training.

 

And -- before I type this, I want to say that my husband did not go to college and is one of the most brilliant people I know and has been successful in a technical career -- I'm afraid I don't think that running pipes or electrical wiring are especially intellectual pursuits. I'm not suggesting that plumbers and electricians are not bright, capable people, but logic and basic math are not the kinds of abilities the article's author means:

 

"All of TCNJ's students must complete learning requirements that demand intellectual and scholarly growth while exposing them to quantitative reasoning; social change in historical context; behavioral and cultural perspectives; literary, visual, or performing arts; worldviews; natural science; interdisciplinary study; and civic-engaged learning. This is what makes TCNJ graduates well-rounded and vibrant contributors within both their communities and professional fields, throughout their lives.

 

It is absolutely necessary that, nationally, we do not lose sight of the need for colleges and universities to produce not only skilled technicians but multi-dimensional thinkers and problem solvers, as well. The mission of 4-year colleges and universities is not simply to prepare future employees. We must prepare thoughtful and engaged citizens who have broad perspectives, open minds, and diverse abilities."

[justamouse]

I'm afraid I don't think that running pipes or electrical wiring are especially intellectual pursuits. I'm not suggesting that plumbers and electricians are not bright, capable people, but logic and basic math are not the kinds of abilities the article's author means:

 

 

Not the electricians and plumbers I know. Like I said, I have a close friend who is a master carpenter in NYC, in Manhattan, and he puts up skyscrapers. He would easily fulfill what the clips listed.

 

And, frankly, I think those things, such as

 

quantitative reasoning; social change in historical context; behavioral and cultural perspectives; literary, visual, or performing arts; worldviews; natural science; interdisciplinary study; and civic-engaged learning.

 

should happen far before college. College should broaden it, but to live as a responsible, contributing citizen in this world, it should be taught in HS, and within the family. It is the end result of a classical education, after all.

[Susie in CA]

Not the electricians and plumbers I know. Like I said, I have a close friend who is a master carpenter in NYC, in Manhattan, and he puts up skyscrapers. He would easily fulfill what the clips listed.

 

And, frankly, I think those things, such as

 

quantitative reasoning; social change in historical context; behavioral and cultural perspectives; literary, visual, or performing arts; worldviews; natural science; interdisciplinary study; and civic-engaged learning.

 

should happen far before college. College should broaden it, but to live as a responsible, contributing citizen in this world, it should be taught in HS, and within the family. It is the end result of a classical education, after all.

 

 

The bolded part I totally agree with.

 

Susie

[Jenny in Florida]

All I can tell you is that, for me, college was invaluable not as job training but in hundreds of other ways. And, as much as I love my husband, I see the difference in the way we approach the world. He's every bit as smart as me, probably more so, but there are things he just doesn't "get" and ways he was not encouraged to think, and it makes me sad for him sometimes.

 

I don't think the author of this article is saying that college is the only way to develop citizens with these abilities. The way I read what she is saying is that the goals of college should not be reduced to vocational training, because there is so much more to it. And I thought she was suggesting that people who consider college from an economic, "will it help me get a job" position are missing the point.

 

And, since that's something I've participated in discussing here on a few occasions, I thought the author's point of view might be of interest to some folks.

 

Apparently, I was wrong, and this post has become only an excuse to argue.

 

I'll take down the link.

[Candid]

 

I'll take down the link.

 

Jenny, I think this is a mistake. Having both links gives folks both sides of the argument and I thought both links were valuable.

[4wildberrys]

Jenny, I think this is a mistake. Having both links gives folks both sides of the argument and I thought both links were valuable.

 

 

I agree! I would really like to read at the link you provided because I've already read Mike Rowe's letter.

 

I guess my whole take is that not everyone needs to or should go to college, but that is the expected norm for pretty much ANY job these days. For example, my husband has no college degree, but decided to become a Real Estate Appraiser when our dd was a baby. He attended all of the required schooling and then did all of the required 1500 hours of supervised training. He has been a successful and well respected Appraiser for 20 years now. But now the rules have changed. All of his schooling and decades of success DON'T MATTER! He MUST get a college degree, and AA now, to upgrade his license. In 2 years, the entire industry will require a FULL 4 year degree!!! This is ridiculous, as his fees have gone DOWN to less than what he made 20 years ago per appraisal! Who in their right mind will spend tens of thousands of dollars and 4 or more years on a degree for a 'professional' with decreasing pay and does NOT need a college degree??? Neither of our kids---that's for sure :glare:

[EKS]

Um, is there a link?