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WWE 3 Problems


Classically Minded
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We are in our third week of school and dd is having a difficult time with WWE 3. She reads the story on her own as the book instructs but when it comes time to answer the questions, she keeps saying she doesn't remember. I've tried reading the story to her after she has read it once, and she still can't remember what the questions are asking. She didn't have this problem in WWE 2.

 

It isn't just the remembering she is struggling with, she is also having a hard time with the narrations and the dictations. The passages seem too hard for her as does the dictation.

 

She does awesome when she reads SOTW 3 on her own and answers almost all of the questions and gives great narrations. Same with science and she is also doing great in dictation in AAS 3 and did great in dictation in WWE 2.

 

So, what do I do? :confused:

Edited by Classically Minded
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A couple of thoughts.

 

- leave it and come back the next day. Have her read it again and then try the questions.

 

-let her go back and check the story or the answers

 

- read it aloud together and stop every sentence it two to paraphrase or otherwise figure out if she understands what she is reading.

 

You shouldn't have to do any of these more than a handful of times. It should click in after that.

 

Hope that helps.

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Stay where you are for awhile and pick your own passages, similar copywork, similar dictation to what is in WWE3.

 

Or, go back to the end of WWE2 and do some of those over again for a few weeks.

 

Is she just dragging her feet because she doesn't like WWE? It doesn't sound like it but maybe take a week or two off and see if that helps. My son groans when we pull it out but always ends up enjoying the passages.

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We're doing the same book and my daughter has the same problems. I don't expect every question about the story to be answered correctly and I often let her take a moment to glance back at the text so she is reminded of what happened. Sometimes if I give her the answers to a couple of the first questions she will do the rest correctly.

 

If she has to write out a narration and is stuck I'll ask leading questions like 'what about when so and so went to the place to meet whomever' and it will spark a couple sentences.

 

Most of the dictation blurbs are too difficult so I only read one part of it. They would be difficult for me too if I was trying to spell the words and make sure the grammar is correct! This is the first wwe book for her so she's not used to it either. I don't think she has done one just right with only having it read twice (meaning the entire thing, no shortened). Shortened she usually can do it perfectly. If I think it needs to be done I will do it as two separate dictations. Hopefully it's not a big deal to alter it somewhat, it's still 100% more narration and dictation than I ever did in school.

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DS8 is doing the WWE3 workbook this year, after two years of copywork/narration/dictation based on the WWE text. The most complicated passages we previously used were SOTW chapter sections or an Aesop fable, and dictation was rarely more than one sentence. WWE3 was a BIG jump in expectations.

 

When DS has a problem with one of the questions, I help him along. First, I repeat the question and direct him to the exact paragraph in the passage where the answer can be found. I have him read aloud until he finds/reads the answer. Then, I have him restate the answer to the question in his own words. Finally, I restate the question and repeat his own answer back to him. On the more difficult passages, we follow the same procedure for most of the questions.

 

I'm not interested in making things artificially hard for my DS. Even in "real" life, I usually have the option of re-reading or at least skimming something I've read in order to find information I missed. Demonstrating that skill to him, and helping him learn how to do it himself, is just as important as learning how to take dictation, imo.

 

For the dictations, I don't shorten them. I do the reading twice through, have DS attempt to tell it back to me, correct him as needed, and then repeat the reading/tell it back process until he has the whole thing. That usually means I read the dictation three to four times before he starts writing. Sometimes, on the longer dictations, I'll read the whole thing twice, then have him repeat the first sentence back to me. Then I'll repeat the whole thing once or twice more, then have him try to repeat the entire dictation. I don't allow DS to start writing until he has most of the dictation firmly pictured in his mind. While this process deviates from the instructions in the text (read it twice!) it has led to more success and fewer struggles all around.

 

Since every child is different, I'm not sure how much this will help you, but maybe it will give you some ideas. To some extent, you need to make the work fit your child, not the other way around. If she struggles, break it down a bit more for her, guide her, and model what you're expecting. Eventually, it will become easier. It's not like tomorrow she'll need to be taking paragraph-long dictations with only one recitation, right? :)

Edited by d.g.
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I'm just going to throw this out there that... I think WWE is above grade level by about 1 year. I have my 4th grade just-turned 10 yr old doing WWE3 and it seems about right. Now, she does fantastically with the reading and comprehension (and probably would have done fine last year, too), but she well above grade level according to standardized tests on reading comprehension. For dictation she still struggles a bit with WWE3 (mild dyslexia.)

 

My other child (2nd grader) is gifted and is doing WWE on-level. She is reading 600 page tween novels and writes 10 page (notebook) stories for fun, but I still feel WWE2 still right for her in a lot of ways.

 

I work with 4th graders as a Sunday school teacher and as a Girl Scout leader (so twice a week), and I'm fairly certain most of them would struggle with WWE4. I mean, even WWE3 has things in it like having kids identify iambic meter and rhyme schemes.. I'm SURE most of my 4th grade girl scouts would just look at me totally blankly if I tried to run that lesson with them, let alone the 3rd graders.

 

Just my two cents on the matter. Now, here on WTM forums there are tons of bright parents with tons of bright kids and it is no surprise that so many are using it on-level, but I certainly don't think it's surprising that some kids out there would struggle to keep up with it.

Edited by zenjenn
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I'm just going to throw this out there that... I think WWE is above grade level by about 1 year. I have my 4th grade just-turned 10 yr old doing WWE3 and it seems about right. Now, she does fantastically with the reading and comprehension (and probably would have done fine last year, too), but she well above grade level according to standardized tests on reading comprehension. For dictation she still struggles a bit with WWE3 (mild dyslexia.)

 

My other child (2nd grader) is gifted and is doing WWE on-level. She is reading 600 page tween novels and writes 10 page (notebook) stories for fun, but I still feel WWE2 still right for her in a lot of ways.

 

I work with 4th graders as a Sunday school teacher and as a Girl Scout leader (so twice a week), and I'm fairly certain most of them would struggle with WWE4. I mean, even WWE3 has things in it like having kids identify iambic meter and rhyme schemes.. I'm SURE most of my 4th grade girl scouts would just look at me totally blankly if I tried to run that lesson with them, let alone the 3rd graders.

 

Just my two cents on the matter. Now, here on WTM forums there are tons of bright parents with tons of bright kids and it is no surprise that so many are using it on-level, but I certainly don't think it's surprising that some kids out there would struggle to keep up with it.

 

 

:iagree: And SWB even mentions this in the text The Complete Writer. She instructs use "WWE3 with a 3rd grader OR as Level 3 with an older student." I choose to look at these 4 books in that way, as 4 levels.

 

I prefer to use WWE levels somewhat simultaneously. Sort of. I mix and match them. My 4th grader is capable of reading the WWE3 and 4 selections on his own, silently or out loud to me, and he can narrate pretty well, but he does still struggle with the review style questions. (In SOTW too--but he just doesn't like history :tongue_smilie: And I don't ask him to narrate his history any more)

 

He can do the dictation in WWE2, but the longer dictations in WWE3 (and Bravewriter Arrows which I use as well) are a bit much.

 

I alternate reading WWE2 passages and asking the questions as a type of listening comprehension exercise with him reading WWE3 out loud to me. I'm thinking we'll drop 2 and move to reading WWE4 alternated with 3 next term if all goes well. I give the shorter dictations and the longer passages as copywork and I use the French Dictation method rather than just reading it to him a certain number of times and then having him write. I allow his narrations to meander and maybe even become conversations. I don't stop him to ask for "complete sentences" or "in your own words in one sentence or three sentences" etc. I allow his narrations to be conversations and we'll eventually circle back to finding the main idea/summary etc. He can write some thoughts/narrations down if he likes, but I don't make him.

 

I've just recently started using these programs and methods (WWE mid year last year and BW this year), but so far this reorganizing of the sequence and using these two programs together has helped. I double up too. I give the dictation or copywork days first and then my ds draws that scene while I read and then we talk! The next week he'll read aloud and then do dictation/copywork and then we'll talk! We do WWE this way three times a week. Tuesdays are BW Arrow days. Friday's are for Freewrites and other writing projects. I understand that may drive some people crazy, rearranging curriculum like that, but I'm a unreformed tweaker! And so far my ds is liking lang arts time.

 

Honestly if I had stuck to the "script" of WWE, I would have chucked it a long time ago!

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We've only done the first story so far, and my DD (5th grade) had the same trouble. I noticed that the language is quite "convoluted" for this age group, IMO. They need to infer what is meant both in the text (not clear descriptions) and for the story as a whole - and really - my DD had NO idea that some beans have a black seam, so the whole point of the story was lost on her. ;) I am going to give it few more weeks, but am already starting to think about looking at IEW again. I looked at it before, but decided against it at that time.

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I don't allow DS to start writing until he has most of the dictation firmly pictured in his mind. While this process deviates from the instructions in the text (read it twice!) it has led to more success and fewer struggles all around.

 

This is what I've been doing as well, however, I repeat it up to 8-10 times before she can get both sentences dictated back to me altogether. Then, I let her write it. I'm just wondering how in the world an 8 or 9 yr old child can get those sentences just after 2 dictations? :001_huh:

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This is what I've been doing as well, however, I repeat it up to 8-10 times before she can get both sentences dictated back to me altogether. Then, I let her write it. I'm just wondering how in the world an 8 or 9 yr old child can get those sentences just after 2 dictations? :001_huh:

 

If my ds is having a hard time retaining the whole passage I just read the first clause and let him repeat and write, and then the next clause etc. I have also written the passage out with words missing and he filled in the blanks as he heard them. I think there's sometimes a need for a more gradual transition into dictation than WWE expects. I also let my ds read the passage. Like me he remembers things he has seen better than things only heard. And I still give him longer passages of copywork. I wouldn't get too bent out of shape at staying on "grade level" with these books. Or deviating from the instructions and trying different techniques to improve their memory.

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Just an update on this post - this week dd has been reading the 2 narrations about Super-Duper (Homer Price) from week 4 and has had NO problems whatsoever with the questions and narration. So, I'm thinking that the stories before this one were harder since she did so well this week.

 

However, on the dictation, she still can't get it after just 2 repetitions but is able to repeat it after 6-10. Since it was driving me crazy having to repeat the sentence that many times, I started recording the sentence and she just plays it back until she can say it all together, then she writes it down and does well with that; holding it in her head. It seems to be working and this week was not as stressful as the first 3! ;)

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We were going to ditch WWE after slogging through WWE2 last year, but I decided to ditch the workbook and just select my own passages according to the recommendations in the WWE book. It's been a night-and-day difference for us in terms of enjoying the program.

 

Just thought I'd throw that out there. I did not like the workbooks because it just felt like one more disconnected subject to get done. My kids seem to care more about the passages when they're about something they're actually working with in other subjects.

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