Follow up questions from yesterday regarding those who give to religious institutions

[Jane in NC]

Here is yesterday's thread. Thank you to those who responded.

 

I have several follow up questions for those who commented yesterday or for those who would like to join the conversation.

 

I have never belonged to a church that expected tithing from its membership. I have always been curious on accountability issues with respect to tithing. Are you just treated like a grownup with the assumption that your gift is your tithe or does someone take a closer look at your finances to insure that you are tithing?

 

Unfortunately the last two churches which I have attended are facing financial difficulties---as many are in these times. Our current church distributed pledge cards to help the financial committee make a budget. If your church does not use pledge cards or expect tithes, does it face financial difficulty? If so, how does your religious leader address this--or does he/she? Have you ever been approached by a member of the financial team or your minister/pastor/priest to discuss your level of financial giving? Or is the need for additional funds issued to the congregation at large?

 

For those of you who tithe, what happens if you choose to redistribute your gift differently? For example, suppose you once gave 10 percent to your church but decided to lower it to 5 and give the other 5 to another organization. Were you asked why?

 

(Please note that I am being nosy on the issue of tithing. How people define tithes varies--for example based on pre or post tax earnings--so I recognize that not everyone uses the word the same way.)

[FaithManor]

Dh is the treasurer of our church and his number one concern is privacy. He does not believe that it is the church leadership's business how much money each person makes. Since financial disclosures are not made, then whatever donation you make is what you make. No one would know if that was a "tithe" or not. He and our church leadership believe it is between the giver and God and no one else.

 

Our church budget is based annually on the average of the previous five years of income. This usually means that some years were good, some were lean, some were in between. He then shaves 10% off that. If it all comes in great, but always 10% of the offering goes to savings and many Sundays more than that because he's helped them so much to see where they could save money, how they could be more accountable for their spending, where the upcoming maintenance issues would pop up so they could save well in advance, etc. He's really pretty conservative and they listen. Every department is on a budget. Every.single.one. On top of that, they have a maximum portion of their budget (25% minus 10% to be held in reserve in case offerings drop off) that they can spend each quarter. That makes everyone think carefully about their purchases.

 

Only the financial recording secretary knows exactly how gave what. She is expected to take that information to the grave with her. :D She prepares and mails annual statements each year by Jan. 31st.

 

Many of the people in our congregation are trying to save money by not buying checks all the time. A LOT is given in cash and in unmarked envelopes so if some unscrupulous person wanted to know what others gave, they'd never be able to figure it out anyway.

 

The church does not struggle financially - median income around here is $31,000.00 and wages are totally stagnate so this is not an area rolling in dough! Dh reigns in spending anytime offerings are below a certain margin so that bills, payroll, and insurance are always paid on time. Now, technically the church board and deacons could override that. They could spend the church into the hole if they wanted to do so. However, they also know that in the five years that dh has been the treasurer, they have gone from deep financial doodoo, to secure footing. They also know that while he doesn't view himself as the ultimate authority on the money, he feels he is accountable to God for being the first line of defense against bad financial planning and inappropriate spending. So, if they made a habit of getting into a financial hot-seat, he would resign and they know it. As it is, they need to make $10,000 in repairs to the aging heating system this fall, and it will be no trouble to pay that bill.

 

Average attendance runs around 200-225 with about 55-60 of those being children/teens.

 

Faith

[Jane in NC]

Dh is the treasurer of our church and his number one concern is privacy. He does not believe that it is the church leadership's business how much money each person makes. Since financial disclosures are not made, then whatever donation you make is what you make. No one would know if that was a "tithe" or not. He and our church leadership believe it is between the giver and God and no one else.

 

Our church budget is based annually on the average of the previous five years of income. This usually means that some years were good, some were lean, some were in between. He then shaves 10% off that. If it all comes in great, but always 10% of the offering goes to savings and many Sundays more than that because he's helped them so much to see where they could save money, how they could be more accountable for their spending, where the upcoming maintenance issues would pop up so they could save well in advance, etc. He's really pretty conservative and they listen. Every department is on a budget. Every.single.one. On top of that, they have a maximum portion of their budget (25% minus 10% to be held in reserve in case offerings drop off) that they can spend each quarter. That makes everyone think carefully about their purchases.

 

Only the financial recording secretary knows exactly how gave what. She is expected to take that information to the grave with her. :D She prepares and mails annual statements each year by Jan. 31st.

 

Many of the people in our congregation are trying to save money by not buying checks all the time. A LOT is given in cash and in unmarked envelopes so if some unscrupulous person wanted to know what others gave, they'd never be able to figure it out anyway.

 

The church does not struggle financially - median income around here is $31,000.00 and wages are totally stagnate so this is not an area rolling in dough! Dh reigns in spending anytime offerings are below a certain margin so that bills, payroll, and insurance are always paid on time. Now, technically the church board and deacons could override that. They could spend the church into the hole if they wanted to do so. However, they also know that in the five years that dh has been the treasurer, they have gone from deep financial doodoo, to secure footing. They also know that while he doesn't view himself as the ultimate authority on the money, he feels he is accountable to God for being the first line of defense against bad financial planning and inappropriate spending. So, if they made a habit of getting into a financial hot-seat, he would resign and they know it. As it is, they need to make $10,000 in repairs to the aging heating system this fall, and it will be no trouble to pay that bill.

 

Average attendance runs around 200-225 with about 55-60 of those being children/teens.

 

Faith

 

Faith,

 

Your church is fortunate to have your husband and you as volunteers! Thanks for sharing this.

[Jpoy85]

They dont ask or care how much i give. I am suppose to give 10% but i dont and never have. If i have 50c in my purse I give it. If i have $5 i give it. I give what I can.

 

I couldnt imagine the pastor talking to me about it. :001_huh:

[Dad 4 Boys]

Dh is the treasurer of our church and his number one concern is privacy. He does not believe that it is the church leadership's business how much money each person makes. Since financial disclosures are not made, then whatever donation you make is what you make. No one would know if that was a "tithe" or not. He and our church leadership believe it is between the giver and God and no one else.

 

Our church budget is based annually on the average of the previous five years of income. This usually means that some years were good, some were lean, some were in between. He then shaves 10% off that. If it all comes in great, but always 10% of the offering goes to savings and many Sundays more than that because he's helped them so much to see where they could save money, how they could be more accountable for their spending, where the upcoming maintenance issues would pop up so they could save well in advance, etc. He's really pretty conservative and they listen. Every department is on a budget. Every.single.one. On top of that, they have a maximum portion of their budget (25% minus 10% to be held in reserve in case offerings drop off) that they can spend each quarter. That makes everyone think carefully about their purchases.

 

Only the financial recording secretary knows exactly how gave what. She is expected to take that information to the grave with her. :D She prepares and mails annual statements each year by Jan. 31st.

 

Many of the people in our congregation are trying to save money by not buying checks all the time. A LOT is given in cash and in unmarked envelopes so if some unscrupulous person wanted to know what others gave, they'd never be able to figure it out anyway.

 

The church does not struggle financially - median income around here is $31,000.00 and wages are totally stagnate so this is not an area rolling in dough! Dh reigns in spending anytime offerings are below a certain margin so that bills, payroll, and insurance are always paid on time. Now, technically the church board and deacons could override that. They could spend the church into the hole if they wanted to do so. However, they also know that in the five years that dh has been the treasurer, they have gone from deep financial doodoo, to secure footing. They also know that while he doesn't view himself as the ultimate authority on the money, he feels he is accountable to God for being the first line of defense against bad financial planning and inappropriate spending. So, if they made a habit of getting into a financial hot-seat, he would resign and they know it. As it is, they need to make $10,000 in repairs to the aging heating system this fall, and it will be no trouble to pay that bill.

 

Average attendance runs around 200-225 with about 55-60 of those being children/teens.

 

Faith

 

 

That rocks! It's a shame that more, if not all, churches aren't like that.

[mumto2]

When we are in the states we are regular attenders at a large church -- two services with roughly 1000 total in attendance. They list the budgeted amount for the prior week's services and the amount collected. They also list the year to date figures. This is part of the notices given to you as you enter the church. The minister has mentioned when collections are far below the budget. Personally I like this method but it only works in a large church. Donations do seem to come in to make up for the deficits.

 

In our 35 person church I hate hearing about finances. We give a budgeted amount monthly no matter where we are, direct deposited. We are willing to donate more for special projects that We want to see completed but not for the general fund. We would have to tell them up front if we were lowering our giving level because we are part of a small number of families which give monthly support. They use this for the main budget.

[DianeW88]

As an active LDS member, we are encouraged to tithe 10% of our income. We meet with our bishop in December for tithing settlement where he asks if our tithe is a full tithe. And that is the quickest part of the meeting. Mostly he just wants to know how we're doing and if there is anything we need or if we have problems he can help with. He then records whether we are full, part or non-paying. That's it. Nothing else happens in regard to it. Nobody else knows your status, and nobody demands that you "pay up".

 

Edited to say, I imagine the financial clerk does know the amount of a family's donations, as he prepares the end of year receipts for members, but NOT their status as a tithe payer.

 

Our church does not do any kind of pledging or fundraising among our members. In fact, soliciting funds like that is forbidden. There are spaces on our donation slips if you would like to donate extra money for missionaries or humanitarian relief, but the bishop never asks whether you do or don't. That is totally optional. We do give the cost of one meal, one Sunday per month to help feed the families in our own congregation that may need help. That is a fast offering, and separate from tithing.

 

The LDS church always operates in the black, and does not undertake any kind of project (like a new building), unless it is already paid for. And funds are never taken from a local congregation for that. They come out of the church's general fund...where tithing money collected world-wide is sent.

Edited September 11, 2012 by DianeW88

[Parrothead]

Here is yesterday's thread. Thank you to those who responded.

I answered yesterday's questions.

 

I have several follow up questions for those who commented yesterday or for those who would like to join the conversation.

 

I have never belonged to a church that expected tithing from its membership. I have always been curious on accountability issues with respect to tithing. Are you just treated like a grownup with the assumption that your gift is your tithe or does someone take a closer look at your finances to insure that you are tithing? If anyone from my parish attempted to look at my finances I would report them to the bishop's office so fast their head would spin. I'd take it to the very top (Yes, the Pope's office) if I couldn't get some sort of satisfactory response.

 

Unfortunately the last two churches which I have attended are facing financial difficulties---as many are in these times. Our current church distributed pledge cards to help the financial committee make a budget. If your church does not use pledge cards or expect tithes, does it face financial difficulty? I've never filled out a pledge card. Nor does my church expect tithes.

 

If so, how does your religious leader address this--or does he/she? Have you ever been approached by a member of the financial team or your minister/pastor/priest to discuss your level of financial giving? No. I'd be shocked and appalled if this happened.

 

Or is the need for additional funds issued to the congregation at large?About once a year the parish at large get a very short reminder about giving of our time, talent and treasure.

 

For those of you who tithe, what happens if you choose to redistribute your gift differently? For example, suppose you once gave 10 percent to your church but decided to lower it to 5 and give the other 5 to another organization. Were you asked why?

I don't tithe. I'd never join a parish that does tithe. (Actually I don't think such a thing exists.)

[Jane in NC]

As an active LDS member, we are encouraged to tithe 10% of our income. We meet with our bishop in December for tithing settlement where he asks if our tithe is a full tithe. And that is the quickest part of the meeting. Mostly he just wants to know how we're doing and if there is anything we need or if we have problems he can help with. He then records whether we are full, part or non-paying. That's it. Nothing else happens in regard to it. Nobody else knows your status, and nobody demands that you "pay up".

 

Diane,

 

Does your bishop know the amount of your tithe or does he just check off what you tell him, i.e. that it is full, part or non-paying? If he knows the amount of your contribution, does he track this from year to year?

 

On the one hand, it would seem that such meetings give an opportunity to express to the church leadership whether assistance is needed. But I wonder why the bishop takes charge of the financial questions and not a treasurer or member of a financial committee.

 

Thanks for your contribution to this thread.

Jane

[happyhomemaker]

Tithing is taught at our church (PCA), but no one checks on you to make sure that you are doing it. That is between you and God. Just like helping the poor and being compassionate is taught, but no one follows you around to see if you are doing those things.

 

If I decided to split my tithe, the only person who would know would be our financial officer who is not allowed to mention it to anyone. Nothing would happen if we decided to tithe somewhere else, reduce our givings, or stop altogether. The church teaches what it believes to be biblically sound. Response to that teaching is left up to individual members.

 

We don't do pledge cards, and our church is doing well financially. Not rolling in the dough, but paying the bills. I have been in churches that actually downplayed giving. They were in financial trouble. I think it's best when it's talked about with no pressure, but we also don't pretend there aren't bills to pay, ykwim?

[DianeW88]

Diane,

 

Does your bishop know the amount of your tithe or does he just check off what you tell him, i.e. that it is full, part or non-paying? If he knows the amount of your contribution, does he track this from year to year?

 

On the one hand, it would seem that such meetings give an opportunity to express to the church leadership whether assistance is needed. But I wonder why the bishop takes charge of the financial questions and not a treasurer or member of a financial committee.

 

Thanks for your contribution to this thread.

Jane

 

We do not have paid clergy in the LDS church, so the financial clerk may be the same person for only a year. Tithing funds are considered sacred funds, and as such, fall under the authority of our bishop. When we arrive at the church for tithing settlement, we are handed a financial statement of our donations for the past year, and asked to check it over and make sure it is all correct. When the bishop invites us into his office, we hand him the form, he glances at it (and I've never seen a bishop give it more than a glance), then asks us if we've paid a full tithe. He checks off our response and signs his name. Then we visit.

 

We don't have a financial committee of any kind in our ward. We have one financial clerk, who with the bishop, or one of his two counselors, records the donations each week. A member of the bishopric then deposits the money into the church's account. In fact, we are only allowed to give our donations to a member of the bishopric. We do not hand them to anyone else or just leave them on a desk somewhere.

 

Also, all church funds go to Church Headquarters in Salt Lake and are redistributed from there. My tithing may go to help build a meetinghouse in Africa, a temple in Philadelphia, a student dorm at BYU or a seminary in England. They are not sitting in a local account that any member of our bishopric can access. The only funds available for that come from our fast offerings or donations to support the missionaries serving from our ward.

 

Did I answer what you were asking?

[vonfirmath]

The only time I have seen pledge cards is growing up, for the missionary support. During missions week we'd make a pledge for how much we would give to missions for the year.

 

Our current church does not do that, they take 10% of all the offerings and that becomes the floor for the missions giving for the church.

[FaithManor]

We do not have paid clergy in the LDS church, so the financial clerk may be the same person for only a year. Tithing funds are considered sacred funds, and as such, fall under the authority of our bishop. When we arrive at the church for tithing settlement, we are handed a financial statement of our donations for the past year, and asked to check it over and make sure it is all correct. When the bishop invites us into his office, we hand him the form, he glances at it (and I've never seen a bishop give it more than a glance), then asks us if we've paid a full tithe. He checks off our response and signs his name. Then we visit.

 

We don't have a financial committee of any kind in our ward. We have one financial clerk, who with the bishop, or one of his two counselors, records the donations each week. A member of the bishopric then deposits the money into the church's account. In fact, we are only allowed to give our donations to a member of the bishopric. We do not hand them to anyone else or just leave them on a desk somewhere.

 

Also, all church funds go to Church Headquarters in Salt Lake and are redistributed from there. My tithing may go to help build a meetinghouse in Africa, a temple in Philadelphia, a student dorm at BYU or a seminary in England. They are not sitting in a local account that any member of our bishopric can access. The only funds available for that come from our fast offerings or donations to support the missionaries serving from our ward.

 

Did I answer what you were asking?

 

Diane, I'm not the OP but can I just say this? I just love the idea of donating a "meal" to those in need. We have a grocery benevolent fund that people can donate to, but sometimes donations are kind of all over the place. Breaking it down like this would make it easy for families to assist with and probably keep the rate of donations fairly steady. Literally, a family could say, "This month I can donate a spaghetti dinner with green beans, parmesan, watermelon, and salad," or whatever because you know how much that meal would cost. It is easy for families of different income levels to "see" how to budget such a gift. I really, really like that better than "Please donate to the random benevolence fund."

 

Is it okay if I suggest to pastor that we "steal" that idea? :001_smile:

 

Faith

[Dinsfamily]

Here is yesterday's thread. Thank you to those who responded.

 

I have several follow up questions for those who commented yesterday or for those who would like to join the conversation.

 

I have never belonged to a church that expected tithing from its membership. I have always been curious on accountability issues with respect to tithing. Are you just treated like a grownup with the assumption that your gift is your tithe or does someone take a closer look at your finances to insure that you are tithing?

No one checks on our tithe or inows what we make. While our church teaches tithes and offerings (they are different), we believe it is a heart matter between you and God.

 

Unfortunately the last two churches which I have attended are facing financial difficulties---as many are in these times. Our current church distributed pledge cards to help the financial committee make a budget. If your church does not use pledge cards or expect tithes, does it face financial difficulty? If so, how does your religious leader address this--or does he/she? Have you ever been approached by a member of the financial team or your minister/pastor/priest to discuss your level of financial giving? Or is the need for additional funds issued to the congregation at large?

We are not facing financial hardships, but our council takes budgeting very seriously. Dh is a member of the council, but all financial stuff is transparent to the congrgation. We have a small staff and limited programs because the size of our church just can't support more. The council is very careful to have savings so that our building payment doesn't depend on a certain number of tithers. We've had some boom years that helped fill up that savings account and some lean years where we needed to dip into it.

 

For those of you who tithe, what happens if you choose to redistribute your gift differently? For example, suppose you once gave 10 percent to your church but decided to lower it to 5 and give the other 5 to another organization. Were you asked why?

We believe that the tithe goes directly to the church and other organizations/causes get offerings above the tithe. Our church also takes a separate missions offering once a month that would be above the tithe. All of this is taught, but no one checks up on anyone.

 

(Please note that I am being nosy on the issue of tithing. How people define tithes varies--for example based on pre or post tax earnings--so I recognize that not everyone uses the word the same way.).

 

:D

[J-rap]

Our church does not use pledge cards, and although my husband and I generally tithe (not because we think we absolutely have to, though), we don't give it all to the church. There are several organizations we support. The church respects that, and never delves into people's private financial lives or questions anything.

 

Our church is very small and I'm sure it does struggle. However, the church does what it can and I believe the synod helps with the rest.

[Alice]

I have never belonged to a church that expected tithing from its membership. I have always been curious on accountability issues with respect to tithing. Are you just treated like a grownup with the assumption that your gift is your tithe or does someone take a closer look at your finances to insure that you are tithing?No one knows if we are tithing or not. Occasionally tithing is mentioned in the pulpit but it is only if the Scripture passage happens to be on that. Our pastor frequently will preach through an entire book of the Bible so it’s not that he’s seekin gout those passages. I have friends who did not tithe for awhile. Her husband was an elder, they were very active in the church but financially could not do it. I’m sure no one knew that they weren’t tithing as no one knows they do now. I know because it’s one of my closest friends and it came up in our conversations.

 

Unfortunately the last two churches which I have attended are facing financial difficulties---as many are in these times. Our current church distributed pledge cards to help the financial committee make a budget. If your church does not use pledge cards or expect tithes, does it face financial difficulty? If so, how does your religious leader address this--or does he/she? Have you ever been approached by a member of the financial team or your minister/pastor/priest to discuss your level of financial giving? Or is the need for additional funds issued to the congregation at large?We do not use pledge cards.We have a very small (about 100 members, about 60 on a given Sunday including children) but financially stable church. Our treasurer is a man beyond reproach and has done the job for years. Once a year he presents the budget in painful detail. :) He wants to be sure to be transparent. He always budgets for more expenses than he expects to have as income based on the past year’s givings. So, we should always be running a deficit. However, he and the elders consider it stepping out in faith to expect God to provide as needed. So far, we’ve never had a deficit. Givings are always greater than expected despite a church membership remaining about the same and no pledge drives. Very rarely, if there is an unexpected or great need, the Session and the treasurer will present that need to the church. For example, the entire AC needed to be replaced at a huge expense. That was presented ONCE via email and people were asked to pray and give if they could. It was never mentioned again nor did anyone check to see who had given. Occasionally, individual members needs are also presented this way. For example, a member needed to urgently fly internationally to be with a dying parent. The need was communicated once and someone anonymously gave her the airfare.

 

For those of you who tithe, what happens if you choose to redistribute your gift differently? For example, suppose you once gave 10 percent to your church but decided to lower it to 5 and give the other 5 to another organization. Were you asked why? No one would know. Well, I guess the treasurer/secretary would see our givings go down but they woudn’t ask about it.

 

(Please note that I am being nosy on the issue of tithing. How people define tithes varies--for example based on pre or post tax earnings--so I recognize that not everyone uses the word the same way.)

For what it’s worth, we tithe on pre tax earnings. We feel that it’s Biblical and our church is our main community. We know where our money is going and feel that it is put to good use. However, we also believe that tithing is between us and God, or between anyone else and God. I don’t think that people who don’t tithe are terrible people. We also try not to be legalistic about it. I think the most important part is that God desires a cheerful giver. He doesn’t desire us to figure out how much is “HIS†vs. how much is “OURSâ€. In our mind it’s all His and we’re giving part of it to His church.There could be other ways to be faithful stewards of what he’s given us, but tithing is one way we try to do that.

[Ipsey]

We do not have paid clergy in the LDS church, so the financial clerk may be the same person for only a year. Tithing funds are considered sacred funds, and as such, fall under the authority of our bishop. When we arrive at the church for tithing settlement, we are handed a financial statement of our donations for the past year, and asked to check it over and make sure it is all correct. When the bishop invites us into his office, we hand him the form, he glances at it (and I've never seen a bishop give it more than a glance), then asks us if we've paid a full tithe. He checks off our response and signs his name. Then we visit.

 

We don't have a financial committee of any kind in our ward. We have one financial clerk, who with the bishop, or one of his two counselors, records the donations each week. A member of the bishopric then deposits the money into the church's account. In fact, we are only allowed to give our donations to a member of the bishopric. We do not hand them to anyone else or just leave them on a desk somewhere.

 

Also, all church funds go to Church Headquarters in Salt Lake and are redistributed from there. My tithing may go to help build a meetinghouse in Africa, a temple in Philadelphia, a student dorm at BYU or a seminary in England. They are not sitting in a local account that any member of our bishopric can access. The only funds available for that come from our fast offerings or donations to support the missionaries serving from our ward.

 

Did I answer what you were asking?

 

Oh, I'm glad you're here, Diane!

 

Are you able to hold a temple recommend and participate in the temple work if you don't pay your full tithe? (I knew about the tithing settlement, but have no idea about whether you can be worthy if you don't give a full tithe.)

[Ellie]

We are accountable to God for whether or not we tithe.

 

Sometimes a church we've attended has done pledge drives, but it is usually associated with a building project, although ocassionally there is a missionary pledge drive. In the Assemblies of God, missionaries must raise their own finances, so they come back home ever so often to visit the churches in hopes of renewing support, and then they do a pledge drive. In neither case does anyone ever question those who pledged, or those who didn't pledge, either. I don't know if the AG has a specific policy about where the tithe is supposed to go, but Mr. Ellie and I have always given the tithe to the church, and other offerings when possible to other charitable groups.

[Melinda in VT]

On the one hand, it would seem that such meetings give an opportunity to express to the church leadership whether assistance is needed. But I wonder why the bishop takes charge of the financial questions and not a treasurer or member of a financial committee.

 

Tithing is seen as a spiritual matter. You get your temple recommend from the bishop, and being a full tithe payer is a requirement for getting one.

[DianeW88]

Oh, I'm glad you're here, Diane!

 

Are you able to hold a temple recommend and participate in the temple work if you don't pay your full tithe? (I knew about the tithing settlement, but have no idea about whether you can be worthy if you don't give a full tithe.)

 

Your bishop will ask you that question separately during a temple recommend interview. You are not supposed to attend the temple if you are not a full tithe payer. However, if you haven't been paying tithing in the past, and then start to do so, it isn't necessary to pay for a full year to be allowed a temple recommend. And nobody will ever "invalidate" your current temple recommend if you happen to fall short in tithing settlement. It's very individual. Obviously, someone who had a tragedy or difficult month or two and got behind on their tithing is not the same as someone who is willfully choosing not to obey a commandment (only speaking for the LDS faith on the commandment thing). In fact, I've had family members who have struggled because of an overwhelming circumstance that drained their finances for a month or two, and the bishop just counseled them to make it up whenever they could and not to worry about it. They were not denied temple recommends because of it.

[MIch elle]

Our church members (Episcopal) are expected to pledge. That pledge could be in any amount and can be changed during the pledge cycle if needed but a pledge is expected (so the board can figure out next year's budget and publish it). But not all families pledge. Some give in the basket but don't pledge.

 

The priest and the book-keeper/treasurer are the only 2 people who know the pledge amount. They do NOT know if it's a tithe and no one EVER asks. No one has in the past has asked WHY you changed your pledge up OR down.

 

Our church is hurting financially. Most of our budget goes to paying our priest. The salary plus all benefits is about $90k/yr and this doesn't include the free rectory she lives in.

 

If we do not get our pledge dollars up, we may not be able to support a full-time rector in about 5 years (our endowment will be spent).

 

Our church has a stewardship period of about 4-6 weeks where the church asks people to carefully consider how much the church means to them and to please increase their pledge if they are able. This is done to the WHOLE congregation via the sermon, individual witness talks after the sermon, and mailings.

 

The Episcopal Church publishes all financial data. It's in the annual report, so everyone knows exactly where the monies are spent.

Edited September 11, 2012 by MIch elle

[Xuzi]

Oh, I'm glad you're here, Diane!

 

Are you able to hold a temple recommend and participate in the temple work if you don't pay your full tithe? (I knew about the tithing settlement, but have no idea about whether you can be worthy if you don't give a full tithe.)

 

I'll also add to Diane's answer that we're not asked to PROVE that we're a full tithe payer. In a Temple Recommend interview, when that question comes up, it's a "Yes/No" question. You don't have to pull out a W2 or anything to prove that the amount of tithes you've paid exactly adds up to 10% of your income. You're taken at your word.

[DianeW88]

Diane, I'm not the OP but can I just say this? I just love the idea of donating a "meal" to those in need. We have a grocery benevolent fund that people can donate to, but sometimes donations are kind of all over the place. Breaking it down like this would make it easy for families to assist with and probably keep the rate of donations fairly steady. Literally, a family could say, "This month I can donate a spaghetti dinner with green beans, parmesan, watermelon, and salad," or whatever because you know how much that meal would cost. It is easy for families of different income levels to "see" how to budget such a gift. I really, really like that better than "Please donate to the random benevolence fund."

 

Is it okay if I suggest to pastor that we "steal" that idea? :001_smile:

 

Faith

 

Absolutely! And we are never "told" what amount that is supposed to be, so it is up to the discretion of each individual family as to how much they give. And that Sunday is a day of fast for us, so the money that we would have spent to feed our own, instead goes to those in need within our own congregation.

[DianeW88]

I'll also add to Diane's answer that we're not asked to PROVE that we're a full tithe payer. In a Temple Recommend interview, when that question comes up, it's a "Yes/No" question. You don't have to pull out a W2 or anything to prove that the amount of tithes you've paid exactly adds up to 10% of your income. You're taken at your word.

 

Yes, thank you, and I apologize for not making that clear. The bishop does not pull out your donation receipts from the previous year to "check" as to the authenticity of your answer. If you say you're a full tithe payer, you are, because ultimately, these things are between you and the Lord.

[mytwomonkeys]

we have been part of 5 churches of various denominations from UMC to non-denominational (prior to that i wasn't even a christian, so i have no point of reference beyond this). not one church that i have attended (in GA, CA, NC, and now FL) have ever probed into a person's income. ever. i have never even heard of any church approaching someone about their giving, their income, the percent that they are tithing, etc. i would be appalled by that. has tithing been preached at the churches we've been a part of? yes. every one of them. is someone enforcing it? no. there are no tithing police, lol. that is between the giver and god. as for pledges, most churches we have been a part of have had some sort of capital campaign. our current church is renovating now actually. we did pledge, but we do not receive any follow-up, quarterly statements, phone calls etc. again, it is between us and god. we know what we said we could give and it is up to us to either give it or not. it is not the church's job to police us.

 

ETA - our pledge has nothing to do with the annual budget. it is for the renovation only. we do not have a membership, so there is no need to do that. the annual budget is based on department needs that the pastors must submit in detailed writing. then the leadership team decides upon the budget using information based on current needs, tithes and past year budgets, etc.

Edited September 12, 2012 by mytwomonkeys

[Puma Mom]

I was the treasurer and sometimes a counter at our last nondenominational church. No elders or pastors knew who gave how much; only the guy who sent out the end of year statements knew that. The only question ever asked of him about individuals giving was whether or not they gave fairly regularly and this only if the person were being considered for a position of leadership. Counters worked in pairs but not always the same pair, so even they only knew what was given that week.

 

Once a year or so, there was a message on tithing. However, the emphasis was on the benefit to the giver vs. the need of the church. It was made clear that the church would have what it needed.

 

This was a small church, so, if the finances were tight, the congregation was informed. No one was approached to give more.

[Kathryn]

I've probably answered most of your questions with my link in your other thread and my question about quarterly statements. I'll update that we did not respond in any way to the letter we received and, so far, the new rector has not contacted us regarding our not pledging. We've only been back to church twice since then, though, as we've had an awful run of colds and stomach viruses in our house lately.

[PeacefulChaos]

Here is yesterday's thread. Thank you to those who responded.

 

I have several follow up questions for those who commented yesterday or for those who would like to join the conversation.

 

I have never belonged to a church that expected tithing from its membership. I have always been curious on accountability issues with respect to tithing. Are you just treated like a grownup with the assumption that your gift is your tithe or does someone take a closer look at your finances to insure that you are tithing?

 

Unfortunately the last two churches which I have attended are facing financial difficulties---as many are in these times. Our current church distributed pledge cards to help the financial committee make a budget. If your church does not use pledge cards or expect tithes, does it face financial difficulty? If so, how does your religious leader address this--or does he/she? Have you ever been approached by a member of the financial team or your minister/pastor/priest to discuss your level of financial giving? Or is the need for additional funds issued to the congregation at large?

 

For those of you who tithe, what happens if you choose to redistribute your gift differently? For example, suppose you once gave 10 percent to your church but decided to lower it to 5 and give the other 5 to another organization. Were you asked why?

 

(Please note that I am being nosy on the issue of tithing. How people define tithes varies--for example based on pre or post tax earnings--so I recognize that not everyone uses the word the same way.)

 

1. We're encouraged to tithe, but it is not kept track of aside from the records the recording secretary keeps for tax purposes. It's never fully known whether someone tithes or not (and by tithing I mean giving regularly - no one knows any family's amount in regards to proportion of what they are earning) and the information on whether they are a regular giver ONLY comes into play with the board if they get nominated for the board of deacons. They have to be regular givers as part of the qualification process.

2. We do not do pledge cards - there have been times in the past where they did, but it was before I moved here 10 years ago (when they began building their new building). Our church isn't facing financial difficulty, as in general our congregation is fairly giving. When one of the staff members goes up to pray over the offering, they encourage us to tithe but it's very brief. We have never been spoken to about how much we give.

3. DH and I hold the belief that our 10% goes to where we get fed spiritually. So that goes to the church. Other things we feel to give money toward we do on top of that. I don't think we would ever be asked about it if we began giving less or more or whatever.