what is "high school level" work?

[ktgrok]

My sister is a vice prinicpal in a highschool here in Florida. She's FULL of info on homeschooling :tongue_smilie:. One thing is she says that now advanced kids take "high school credit" physical science in 7th grade and Earth Space science in 8th grade. I said I see no point to this, as he is going to take the full series (Bio, Chem, Physics, and something else) in high school. Plus, colleges from what I understand don't give a hoot about "earth space science", etc. But she insisted that is how it is done, and wants to know if the science classes my son is doing for 7th and 8th are "high school credit". Um...He's doing Physics III from NOeo, which is for 7th-9th graders, and next year will do Chemistry III, which is also for 7th -9th. I suppose you could say it is high school level if you wanted, but who the heck cares?

 

Our views are so different (me wanting to cover what is interesting, rigorous, and needed for college...her focusing on what normal kids take in highschool), and i don't know what to believe.

[TechWife]

Here's my two cents (that's about all it's worth, too :001_smile:).

 

The first question you need to answer is "Am I meeting the state requirements for home schooling?" If the answer is no, do what you need to do to come into compliance. Since the answer is probably yes, then proceed with the following:

 

Thank your sister for being interested in your children's education. If necessary, remind her you are following state homeschooling laws. Then, refuse to talk about home schooling with your sister. Change the subject, walk away. Get into the habit of doing this. Or, alternately, when she tells you something her public high school kids do, you can say "I'm sorry to hear that." :lol:

 

Doing things differently that public school is one of the privileges of homeschooling. Don't let her talk you into doing things at home just because they are done in public school. Home is a totally different ballgame.

 

 

FWIW, her explanations of "high school level" science do not make sense to me. High school level is work that is engaged in for the specific purpose of earning high school credit. In my state it can be whatever I decide it is. Classes taken in middle school do not usually count towards a high school diploma, with the exception of Algebra I (which does count in some states).

 

Quite frankly, I am sure I could design an earth science class that is more rigorous than the typical high school biology class. Rigor has nothing to do with the title of the course and everything to do with the content, the manner in which it is presented and the manner in which students are required to demonstrate their proficiency.

Edited September 11, 2012 by TechWife

[Candid]

My oldest did those sorts of science for his 7th and 8th grade because I was using Singapore's middle school series at that point. To be honest, I think your sister is full of it when she calls them high school courses.

 

BUT for my more science oriented guy. I decided we'd do more fun stuff for 6-8 grade for him. So we started last year with a Marine science course, this year I'm using ACS's Middle School Chemistry along with MIT's Kitchen Chemistry and finishing with a health component (to offset all the cooking).

 

Next year we'll do what many call "earth science" but we'll use geology texts and then for the second half of the year we'll do electricity.

 

I will hope that all of these will be fun, but nevertheless include strong elements of learning.

 

Then when he gets to ninth grade we can be serious and start with a solid biology program.

[Candid]

My oldest did those sorts of science for his 7th and 8th grade because I was using Singapore's middle school series at that point. To be honest, I think your sister is full of it when she calls them high school courses.

 

BUT for my more science oriented guy. I decided we'd do more fun stuff for 6-8 grade for him. So we started last year with a Marine science course, this year I'm using ACS's Middle School Chemistry along with MIT's Kitchen Chemistry and finishing with a health component (to offset all the cooking).

 

Next year we'll do what many call "earth science" but we'll use geology texts and then for the second half of the year we'll do electricity.

 

I will hope that all of these will be fun, but nevertheless include strong elements of learning.

 

Then when he gets to ninth grade we can be serious and start with a solid biology program.

 

Personally, I find the back to back courses that are typically offered in 7th and 8th grade that your sister suggest to be a bit on the dullsville side of things.

[Roadrunner]

I am going to take a wild guess here. Is it possible she means that certain classes that traditionally belong to high school are now open to some middle school kids based on ability. I think in our district generally geometry is considered a high school class, but it's offered for some middle school kids in 8th grade and those kids can claim high school credit for it (I think). So one might say those kids are doing "high school level work" in middle school. So applying the same logic, maybe those particular science classes are typically offered in high school but made available for advanced middle schoolers, she could say now 7th graders are doing "high school level work". What it means in terms of quality? Not a clue.

[Laura Corin]

We did do some high school level work early, but only called it such if it led to an externally-monitored qualification. Calvin took his first high school level exam at 11. We had no idea what the future might hold, and an early high school exam might catch a university administrator's eye.

 

Laura

[Mom22ns]

My 8th grade dd is taking a "high school level" Physical Science, Algebra, French, and American History using a college text. I would consider all of these courses high school level, but she isn't going to get any high school credit for them. She'll get credit for the next 4 years of science, math and history.

 

If you want to have this discussion with your sister, share the areas that your dc are excelling. If you don't want to have it, don't. Thank her for the information and move on.

 

I like hearing from my s-i-l about what math her school teaches now. They added Calc 2 this year and are adding Calc 3 next year. I laugh (internally) at the kids that tell me about all the high school credits they are getting for work done in Jr High. Take it as you take it, but don't let her force you engage in this conversation.

[BlsdMama]

There are only three phrases you need with your sister at this point.

 

 

"Thank you for that information."

"I'll think on that."

 

"OOOH! Is that bean dip? YUM!"

 

Everything else is a waste of air and time, both yours and hers.

[Jenny in Florida]

First, the fact is that, of course, you can do whatever you think is appropriate for your student. That's one of the joys of homeschooling. We've certainly taken the road less travelled in a few subjects (math and science, mostly), and I'm not losing sleep over it.

 

Classes taken in middle school do not usually count towards a high school diploma, with the exception of Algebra I (which does count in some states).

 

However, it is true that some advanced/gifted students in Florida do take high school courses for credit while in middle school. One of my son's best buddies is doing this and had algebra I, geometry, one year of foreign language and a couple of sciences on his transcript before he hit 9th grade.

 

I'm not sure why this is a big deal or a great idea, except for students who will really want/need the extra couple of years to do advanced math or science while still in high school. In other words, if you don't start algebra until 9th grade, you're unlikely to get past introductory calculus in high school.

 

And, of course, for really gifted students who are at risk of boredom and zoning out, those advanced classes can provide challenge.

 

My son's other friends, though, who are also on the gifted/honors track, didn't load up on high school classes early and are doing just fine.

 

In general, I think this is one of those things that matters if you have a kid in school and probably isn't relevant for homeschoolers.

[G5052]

There are only three phrases you need with your sister at this point.

 

 

"Thank you for that information."

"I'll think on that."

 

"OOOH! Is that bean dip? YUM!"

 

Everything else is a waste of air and time, both yours and hers.

 

Sometimes the less you say the better.

 

I have my opinions on the quality of courses at the local high school (yes, even the honors and AP ones), but unless asked, I keep my mouth tight shut.

[FloridaLisa]

If you are at all interested in Florida state universities for your dc, I think it is a bit helpful to know what some of the best Florida students are doing. Of course, you need to also hear from admissions and find out whether it matters for admissions purposes. If Florida universities like to see these high school courses in middle school and like to see lots of high school credits, and are regularly admitting kids with more than average credits and giving them scholarships, then it's helpful to know how you should prepare a transcript.

 

And, ftr, in just my few shorts years keeping up with education, boy there are lots of new things, new requirements, new emphasis. I am sooooo glad we don't have to adjust to that and can keep our eye on our own goals.

 

Lisa

[angela in ohio]

Different perspective here...

 

Some local schools here are starting to push "high school" courses back into middle school for all students. My nephew is a struggling student, and he is taking two high school courses in 7th. :001_huh: They *have* to be changing the content if they are doing this for all 7th graders. It's totally different than middle schoolers taking courses *with* high schoolers, which our district allows.

 

Like you, we are doing rigorous work for jr high/middle school just because that's what we do. It just means our high school work will be more rigorous, not that they have checked everything off early. It's a different path; she might not understand the more competitive track.

[ktgrok]

Thanks everyone. I think that in the case of Algebra, or foreign language, it makes sense, as it leaves more room to take more advanced courses. But my son was never going to take earth space science in highschool in the first place, so it really serves no purpose to take it in middle school, that I can see. Even my sister said it just pads the GPA for highschool. My son might transfer into a public highschool, so I do need to have him take the end of course exam for algebra, but even if I count his middle school science as high school science, it isn't as if the highschool will add those into his GPA there anyway.

[kiana]

Thanks everyone. I think that in the case of Algebra, or foreign language, it makes sense, as it leaves more room to take more advanced courses. But my son was never going to take earth space science in highschool in the first place, so it really serves no purpose to take it in middle school, that I can see. Even my sister said it just pads the GPA for highschool. My son might transfer into a public highschool, so I do need to have him take the end of course exam for algebra, but even if I count his middle school science as high school science, it isn't as if the highschool will add those into his GPA there anyway.

 

No, but if he might transfer into a public school I would keep records, so that if possible you can fight to have him exempted from science courses he has already had. For example, the local school here makes all 9th graders take physical science unless they already had it.

 

This IMO would fall into a 'better safe than sorry' plan.

[ktgrok]

No, but if he might transfer into a public school I would keep records, so that if possible you can fight to have him exempted from science courses he has already had. For example, the local school here makes all 9th graders take physical science unless they already had it.

 

This IMO would fall into a 'better safe than sorry' plan.

 

Ah, see here the "advanced" students don't take physical science or earth space science, or at least they didn't. They started with Biology. So taking these courses in middle school doesn't put them ahead... it is just courses they wouldn't have taken otherwise.

 

I am keeping good records though, (obsessively), and will have him take the end of course exam for Algebra, and other courses as they come up, that are required of public school students in case he does transfer in.

[In The Great White North]

Just out of curiosity, what are these kids taking in high school if they get high school credits in junior high? Or is the school district just trying to graduate them early?

[cloudswinger]

Just out of curiosity, what are these kids taking in high school if they get high school credits in junior high? Or is the school district just trying to graduate them early?

 

They are taking college credit classes. Florida has a dual enrollment program with the state universities, so the college credit is paid for by the state. That's a powerful incentive if your kids can handle it. Some kids end up with 2 years done. I'm assuming that the "high school level" classes are taken through the FL Virtual School, and are taught at the high school level and are recorded as such.

Edited September 14, 2012 by cloudswinger

[Storm Bay]

Every area is different. In our city, kids in grade 8 can take honours Algebra 1, honour Science & honours Spanish 1. Although all 3 are freshman level courses, the only one the ps allows for high school credit is the Spanish.

 

Sometimes well-meaning people give advice that doesn't necessarily make sense to a homeschooler. There are colleges that are starting to look for ps-like class requirements from homeschoolers. Not all, of course. Some colleges don't want kids who do nothing but advanced classes such as all honours, AP & dual enrollment (not kidding), and some of those are good schools, even if they're not top tier (a different conversation, and I no longer remember which college it was were I asked that as we've been looking at so many).

 

I think the bottom line for us as homeschoolers is to do what makes sense for our kids. If your child is bright, it will show if they put in enough work (how much varies with their IQ/interest/learning style, etc.) Some kids blossom later than others. My eldest was ready for Algebra 1 at 11, but I made the mistake of putting my second one into Algebra 1 at 12 at home, and she's only now, at 14, really getting it. She isn't planning to go into math or science, but even if she were, she wasn't ready to do well at this sooner.

[Corraleno]

Some local schools here are starting to push "high school" courses back into middle school for all students. My nephew is a struggling student, and he is taking two high school courses in 7th. :001_huh: They *have* to be changing the content if they are doing this for all 7th graders. It's totally different than middle schoolers taking courses *with* high schoolers, which our district allows.

:iagree:

My niece got HS credit for Honors English, Algebra, and Spanish in 8th grade, and having seen the level of work she did, there's no way I would consider it HS level. (Honors HS English with no novels and no essays — just powerpoint presentations??? :confused:) I also know of a charter school that gives ALL 8th graders HS credit for History, Algebra, and Spanish. IMHO all they've done is "rebrand" the middle school courses: the algebra is mostly prealgebra, the "history" is a mishmash of unrelated topics, and the Spanish I is below the level of Rosetta Stone.

 

Both of the above schools are in areas where the HS graduation rate is shockingly low, and I suspect that this movement to "rebrand" middle school courses is a way of increasing the graduation rate, by getting more of the required courses (or at least imitations of the required courses) out of the way before a child is 16. It's easier to hang onto them if 11th & 12th grade are nothing but fluff courses and study hall.

 

Jackie