AP Courses or Dual Enrollment?

[Ann.without.an.e]

I continue to hear different opinions on whether it is better to go the AP Course route or the Dual enrollment route. My friend is a guidance counselor and she is of the opinion that dual enrollment doesn't look nearly as good on a transcript as AP Courses. Any experiences?

[regentrude]

It depends on your goal: what is the purpose of AP or dual enrollment?

Do you want to demonstrate mastery, substantiate a mommy transcript, acquire college credit, or give you student a chance to experience a live college class? The answer which is "better" depends on WHY you want to do AP or dual enrollment.

 

AP is standardized, recognized by many universities, can give college credit if score is high enough; for home schoolers it is either self study or online.

The quality of dual enrollment varies greatly; a course with the same title may be very different at your local CC and at your 4 year STEM university. As to what "looks good", I am fairly certain that the institution matters where the student took the course. Credit may or may not transfer.

 

We do dual enrollment so that DD can experience a live college class with various professors, class interactions, a strict schedule, labs - none of which could be replicated in a self study or online course.

You may have different objectives.

[Lori D.]

In addition to taking into consideration what *your* goals are as Regentrude puts it so well above, it's also very important to talk with the Admissions office at the colleges/universities *your* students are interested in attending to see what the specific policies are for each institution, and what they specifically like to see more, or will give more credit and weight to. There is such a WIDE divergence from school to school that it is impossible to make a blanket statement that either AP or Dual Enrollment is better than the other. There are pros and cons to each, and in some places one option is more beneficial than the other -- it really depends on the college/university the student will be attending, coupled with your reasons for doing it.

 

Check out some *great* past threads on this topic: go to the second page in the high school Board sticky ("Outsourcing, Online Classes, Tutors, Dual Enrollment -- links to past thread here!"); go to the second of the eight "clumps" of thread titles; the first four threads in that "clump" specifically address all the ins and outs of the "AP-vs-Dual-Enrollment-which-is-better" question.

 

 

BEST of luck as you sort it all out and come to a decision! Warmly, Lori D.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Lori D.

[Barbara H]

The majority of the college admissions officers I've spoken with say that from homeschoolers they like to see APs or dual enrollment. They recognize that families have different options in their local communities and will make different choices. Either option will help validate your homeschool transcript and will demonstrate that your student has been subject to evaluation and standards outside of your homeschool. In other words, it is easy to overthink this. And, of course, you have the option of doing a mix of APs and dual enrollment. That's what we opted for and it worked out well.

[G5052]

Frankly I don't think that you can really generalize.

 

Because we're primarily looking in-state, I have a speadsheet that lays it all out. If a school accepts community college credit or an AP score, that is what we'll probably do because it shows that they value that even apart from the credits. Even though I'm not a fan of sending your 11th grader off to do most of their credits at the community college, I do think that experiencing a taste of college in dual enrollment is good. I may even have mine do English 101 and 102 in their senior year to get that out of the way in a smaller classroom.

[angela in ohio]

You hear different opinions because there is no one answer. I think it depends on the student, the CC, the opportunities available for AP course, and the student's future plans.

[creekland]

Schools we've dealt with prefer AP. However, for homeschoolers, they also like to see that they do well outside the classroom, so having a couple of dual enrollment classes to go along with AP is a good idea. With oldest I only did dual enrollment. With middle I did both. If I were doing it again with other college-level capable students I'd choose a mix of both.

 

When I picked their dual enrollment classes I picked some that couldn't be duplicated as easily for me. English (not my forte), Microbio, and Public Speaking were my choices for middle son. I liked that combo.

[angela in ohio]

I doubt they want their prospective students to think the college is on the cutting edge of rote memorization of data tables.

 

I'm giggling at the thought of that on the front of their brochure... :lol:

 

I agree with you on the quality of the DE. We have had to investigate each teacher, plan our schedule around the ones to take and the ones to avoid. And then, you still never know for sure.

[K-FL]

With us, DE was the most economical choice. We only had to pay for books (which can be resold) so dd could take all those classes with lab fees for free. Also, since all state schools (cc & U) matriculate, they didn't have to re-take any of those classes. The U also considers the student a Freshman for scholarships, etc. if the classes were taken during hs so they didn't loose out on competing for any "freshman only" $$.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Thank you all for your feedback on this. I can see the advantages to both DE and AP. Decisions, decisions, decisions :confused: I guess I will need to think on this some more and do some more digging. I think DE is free for high schoolers in our state. That is an advantage. I can also see the advantage of having real professors to give recommendations and referrals, etc.

 

Thanks again :)

[ocelotmom]

I continue to hear different opinions on whether it is better to go the AP Course route or the Dual enrollment route. My friend is a guidance counselor and she is of the opinion that dual enrollment doesn't look nearly as good on a transcript as AP Courses. Any experiences?

 

High school or college guidance counselor? There might be an element of bias if it's high school.

 

I really have a hard time seeing how Dual Enrollment could be a worse option from a looking good on a transcript standpoint. They're actual college courses, done at a semester pace, while an AP class is a semester class over a full year.

 

If you stick to standard general ed classes, you shouldn't have trouble transferring credits.

 

AP test acceptance is not universal. The college may not give credit for simply getting a pass - they may require a 4 or a 5 for credit, or give varying amounts of credit for higher scores.

 

On the other hand, AP tests are safer in that they don't have to go on the college transcript that has the potential to follow you for the rest of your life.

[Ann.without.an.e]

High school or college guidance counselor? There might be an element of bias if it's high school.

 

I really have a hard time seeing how Dual Enrollment could be a worse option from a looking good on a transcript standpoint. They're actual college courses, done at a semester pace, while an AP class is a semester class over a full year.

 

If you stick to standard general ed classes, you shouldn't have trouble transferring credits.

 

AP test acceptance is not universal. The college may not give credit for simply getting a pass - they may require a 4 or a 5 for credit, or give varying amounts of credit for higher scores.

 

On the other hand, AP tests are safer in that they don't have to go on the college transcript that has the potential to follow you for the rest of your life.

 

 

High School guidance counselor. She says that the students they encourage to dual enroll are the ones who are not in the AP program. They are the "lower" students that they fear will not get college exposure any other way.

[regentrude]

I really have a hard time seeing how Dual Enrollment could be a worse option from a looking good on a transcript standpoint. They're actual college courses, done at a semester pace, while an AP class is a semester class over a full year.

 

 

The above is not true for all courses. AP calculus BC is the equivalent of two semesters of calculus, calc 1 and calc 2. The content of AP Physics (this is true for both B and C) is not taught in a single semester either, but rather as a two semester university course. (Consequently, a 5 would usually get you credit for two semesters.)

[Ann.without.an.e]

I think we're talking about several different things here. DE conducted on a HIGH SCHOOL campus does not carry the same weight as DE conducted at the university.

 

Actually, our local high school does not offer DE on campus. So, my friend was talking about DE at the community college.

 

With all these decisions, you may find that a combination of DE and AP works best for your situation. btw, check with your ps that they will ALLOW your student to take the AP exam. They don't have to--hate to see all that work and then not be able to sit for it.

 

I think you are right. I didn't know they have to allow a student to take the test. This is something to check into for sure. Thanks for the heads up on this!

[Wildcat]

We chose DE over AP simply because no one around here will allow hsers to test. Not even the private schools. :glare:

 

I wish the College Board would move AP tests to Saturdays and have registration similar to the SAT & ACT tests. That way everyone who wants to take the test can. Think of all the money CB is losing out on!!

[creekland]

I really have a hard time seeing how Dual Enrollment could be a worse option from a looking good on a transcript standpoint.

 

I have asked this question several times, in person - posing the question to profs and adcoms, and always gotten the same answer from private colleges (state school adcoms tell me it doesn't matter). Their answer has been that they don't know the content of many DE classes. SOME students who have had them are well prepared. MANY are not. The quality varies and the content varies - hence - the reluctance to want to give credit IF it's a course the student needs as a pre-req for a later course. Credit comes more easily if it's a stand alone course. Some colleges won't give credit at all. Some won't if it's a course on a high school campus (less-prepared students in their experience). With AP, the content is known and a score on a test gives them an idea of how much someone knows. They can adjust their (college) courses accordingly.

 

If you stick to standard general ed classes, you shouldn't have trouble transferring credits.

 

It depends on the college.

 

On the other hand, AP tests are safer in that they don't have to go on the college transcript that has the potential to follow you for the rest of your life.

 

This is SUPER IMPORTANT for med school (or probably any grad school) wannabes. DE courses WILL COUNT toward your GPA for med school. It's also HIGHLY RECOMMENDED by ALL I've talked with that a prospective med student NOT take Bio/Chem or Organic Chem over the summer or at a community college. Those courses are perceived easier and trying to "take the easy route" to get good grades in them is NOT a trait med school admissions folks are looking for. It's not an automatic rejection, but it is a significant nick on the application. AP tests - whether scoring a 1 or a 5 - will not affect med school applications.

[Lori D.]

what to do if the teacher is a dud.

 

 

While this is not a perfect solution, it has helped us weed out a few potential "duds" in advance -- and helped us find a few outstanding teachers at the local community college: Rate My Professor

 

We have a fair number of homeschoolers taking dual enrollment in our city, so I also post on the homeschool board and ask for who others have had as teachers and if they recommend/not recommend and why. We've received some GREAT advice this way, not only on who to take/not take, but also tips on navigating the CC system -- which led to help in finding the scholarship website at the CC, and older DS getting a partial scholarship last year (his first year of college), and a full scholarship to the CC this year! :)

Edited September 12, 2012 by Lori D.

[Barbara H]

High School guidance counselor. She says that the students they encourage to dual enroll are the ones who are not in the AP program. They are the "lower" students that they fear will not get college exposure any other way.

 

Having spoken to a significant number of admissions officers about how they handle applications from homeschool students, I feel confident in saying that most do not see dual enrollment for homeschool students as remedial or an option for "lower" students. Instead it is seen as a way for students to gain classroom experience and for families to handle upper level courses that may be difficult to do at home.

 

Dual enrollment classes offered on a college campus are also not seen as primarily for "lower" students. The very top math students in our school district - those beyond AP offerings - are encouraged to dual enroll in the university to take courses such as calculus III or number theory.

[creekland]

Having spoken to a significant number of admissions officers about how they handle applications from homeschool students, I feel confident in saying that most do not see dual enrollment for homeschool students as remedial or an option for "lower" students. Instead it is seen as a way for students to gain classroom experience and for families to handle upper level courses that may be difficult to do at home.

 

 

Since my last post was all about AP vs DE from adcoms that I've talked with I also wanted to add an"

 

:iagree:

 

here. Homeschoolers are different and it helps to have a combo of both IMO. They want to see AP scores to compare across the nation and DE to show them classroom exposure/experience.

 

And one can get into many colleges with neither, but it's far, far tougher to do that with top schools.

[Blue Hen]

If you're taking an AP test at a high school your child doesn't attend, be sure to talk to the AP coordinator soon. There are deadlines that come up very soon.

 

While I agree it is a good idea to chat in the fall with the local AP Coordinators the ones I have spoken to will only state whether or not they will be offering the test, and whether they might have room for the student. Also, the AP Coordinators in my area do not start thinking of ordering AP test until March / April time frame. Only if your student has any disabilities that might require testing accomadations would I start this process earlier.

 

Here are the dates from the College Board website:

 

February 22, 2013 is the deadline for submitting requests for testing accomadations for students with disabilities.

 

March 1, 2013: Deadline for homeschooled students to contact AP Services (College Board) for a a list of local AP Coordinators at whose schools they could arrange a test.

 

March 15, 2013: Deadline for homeschooled students and students whose schools do not offer AP to contact AP Coordinators identified by AP Services.

 

March 29, 2013: Priority deadline for schools to order AP Exams. Submit orders by this date to ensure timely processing and delivery.

 

April 12, 2013: Final deadline for schools outside the United States, U.S. territories, and Canada to order AP Exams. No orders will be accepted after this date.

 

April 19, 2013: Final deadline for schools in the United States, U.S. territories, and Canada to order AP Exams. No orders will be accepted after this date.

 

 

When I scheduled AP tests for my oldest, and this coming year when I schedule them for my youngest, I will do so in late February. Even then the schools I turn to might tell me to call them back in late-March or early April.

[Lori D.]

And for more info on dates, fees, tests offered, resources etc., check out the College Board AP Central webpage.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

While I agree it is a good idea to chat in the fall with the local AP Coordinators the ones I have spoken to will only state whether or not they will be offering the test, and whether they might have room for the student. Also, the AP Coordinators in my area do not start thinking of ordering AP test until March / April time frame. Only if your student has any disabilities that might require testing accomadations would I start this process earlier.

 

Here are the dates from the College Board website:

 

February 22, 2013 is the deadline for submitting requests for testing accomadations for students with disabilities.

 

March 1, 2013: Deadline for homeschooled students to contact AP Services (College Board) for a a list of local AP Coordinators at whose schools they could arrange a test.

 

March 15, 2013: Deadline for homeschooled students and students whose schools do not offer AP to contact AP Coordinators identified by AP Services.

 

March 29, 2013: Priority deadline for schools to order AP Exams. Submit orders by this date to ensure timely processing and delivery.

 

April 12, 2013: Final deadline for schools outside the United States, U.S. territories, and Canada to order AP Exams. No orders will be accepted after this date.

 

April 19, 2013: Final deadline for schools in the United States, U.S. territories, and Canada to order AP Exams. No orders will be accepted after this date.

 

 

When I scheduled AP tests for my oldest, and this coming year when I schedule them for my youngest, I will do so in late February. Even then the schools I turn to might tell me to call them back in late-March or early April.

 

This schedule is a good demonstration why it's worth chatting with the coordinators earlier in the year. In our district, they are very open to homeschoolers and other out of system students coming in for tests. BUT the window for requesting this is about 2 weeks in late February. If you wait until the March date that CB lists, you are not going to be testing in my county with the public school.

 

If you talk to them earlier, you can make it quite easy on yourself and avoid the headache of trying to work with CB and then beg someone to let you in.