I need help with my dd 12

[kfeusse]

How can I get her to realized that her reactions to things she doesn't like (like me telling her it's time for a shower) or things that irritate her (like her brother making annoying noises) is an not ok behavior. She often reacts with a sassy comment, arguing, or back talk. She claims to not know she is doing that...but she is continues in that behavior even after being told. And truth be told eventually I lose my temper and end up raising my voice because it is so down right frustrating....and she refuses to listen to anything anybody has to say. I am sure this goes along with the preteen territory...but it is still not ok to respond this way...what can I do??? Please give me some ideas!!!! Ask any questions if you need more clarification. Thanks.

[justamouse]

I am in no condition to answer a question like this now, my brain is fried and I'm about to put my self in time out.

 

So :grouphug:.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I have zero experience with this, so take it with a grain of salt. But I've heard one possibility is to have the kid leave the room, then come back in and repeat the scenario (So you would repeat "It's time for your shower") and then she would need to respond politely. Keep repeating until she does it. I think the basic idea is that this is so annoying to the child that they learn to get it right the first time around.

 

You can give her some options also, so she can express herself without being nasty. For example, my kids are being trained to say "Thank you for dinner. This is not my favorite" rather than "Yuck. What is this. I'm not eating this."

[TranquilMind]

How can I get her to realized that her reactions to things she doesn't like (like me telling her it's time for a shower) or things that irritate her (like her brother making annoying noises) is an not ok behavior. She often reacts with a sassy comment, arguing, or back talk. She claims to not know she is doing that...but she is continues in that behavior even after being told. And truth be told eventually I lose my temper and end up raising my voice because it is so down right frustrating....and she refuses to listen to anything anybody has to say. I am sure this goes along with the preteen territory...but it is still not ok to respond this way...what can I do??? Please give me some ideas!!!! Ask any questions if you need more clarification. Thanks.

I never did figure it out. Hope you do it better than I did.

[ondreeuh]

I have zero experience with this, so take it with a grain of salt. But I've heard one possibility is to have the kid leave the room, then come back in and repeat the scenario (So you would repeat "It's time for your shower") and then she would need to respond politely. Keep repeating until she does it. I think the basic idea is that this is so annoying to the child that they learn to get it right the first time around.

 

 

:iagree: I do this with my preschooler. He falls apart over little things, and punishment makes him fall apart further. I try to remember to say, "Try that again," and miraculously he uses the correct words and attitude on the second try. Then he gets praise for talking nicely.

 

My 16 year old overreacts constantly, and I should try that with her!

[justamouse]

I have zero experience with this, so take it with a grain of salt. But I've heard one possibility is to have the kid leave the room, then come back in and repeat the scenario (So you would repeat "It's time for your shower") and then she would need to respond politely. Keep repeating until she does it. I think the basic idea is that this is so annoying to the child that they learn to get it right the first time around.

 

You can give her some options also, so she can express herself without being nasty. For example, my kids are being trained to say "Thank you for dinner. This is not my favorite" rather than "Yuck. What is this. I'm not eating this."

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

Where's Tibbie? I think that's what she would say, too.

[The Girls' Mom]

I have a dd that needs a lot of reminders not to act that way. I think part of it is her personality, but a trait that needs to be reigned in for the sake of her future relationships. She too claims that she doesn't know she's doing it.

 

What usually works for us, is my matter of factly saying "I know you may not realize it, but your are coming across as ________ right now. Your (tone of voice, death glare, heavy sighs, etc) tell me that you are (angry, ungrateful, in a mood, whatever). You need to remedy that." I have also found that keeping MY emotions out of it helps a lot. (this is hard!)

[kfeusse]

But I've heard one possibility is to have the kid leave the room, then come back in and repeat the scenario (So you would repeat "It's time for your shower") and then she would need to respond politely. Keep repeating until she does it. I think the basic idea is that this is so annoying to the child that they learn to get it right the first time around.

 

QUOTE]

 

I have actually tried that and I end up with a girl with a bigger/worse attitude than when I started. I wish it would work...and maybe it would if I kept doing it, but it doesn't seem to be the right trick for this child.

[Trish]

Well I put this in the category of backtalk, and the way we deal with it here is we deal with it every time it arises. (because backtalk is like weeds, they keep growing and get worse if you don't do something about them) Anyway, I ask the offender to repeat what they said, but in a "nicer way." (either different words or better tone) Or if they just said something insulting, bad or wrong, I ask them to apologize to (me or whomever they offended). And they get to repeate the apology if THAT is said in a mean way. If it continues beyond that, the offender gets sent to his room to "think about" what he said, and come out to apologize later. If this happens during the schoolday, schoolbooks accompany him so that work gets done. (my kids don't have games or electronics in their rooms. Theoretically they could choose to ignore schoolwork and read a book, but if the work doesn't get done, then privileges don't happen until it does)

 

This can be a bit time-consuming to have to deal with this each time, but it pays off because the KIDS ultimately find it time-consuming and annoying to have to deal with this each time. And I believe it DOES cut down on the amount of this type of talk. Sometimes at the time, or maybe later in the day at our family meeting (when we get together to pray or talk etc) I will sometimes say, "you wouldn't want dad or me to talk to you that way, would you?" So they can see from another point of view WHY we care about backtalk/mean talk/insults, etc.

 

To me it is just about consistency, I look at it as "yardwork for the heart." And no, it does NOT eliminate everything, but it does cut down quite a bit of it. AND my husband and I are quick to apologize when WE speak disrespectfully to our kids. i.e. sometimes things said in anger that were too harsh or whatever. I try to model for them how I expect them to behave, even though none of us is perfect.

 

Good luck!

 

:grouphug:

[Joshin]

DS12, my kind, compliant child, started doing this in the past few months. I treat it the same way I did whining when they were little. I can't hear whining, and I can't hear sassing or attitude. When he responds with a bad attitude, all I say is "Attitude Check." He can then rephrase it without the attitude or he can sit and chill away from the rest of us for a few minutes until he's ready to. If he keeps sassing, I can't hear or see him. There are blowups occasionally, where he keeps yelling or sassing, but I simply ignore him until he's ready to check it. After the first few times of complete ignoring of the behavior, he rarely needs anything more than a reminder of an 'attitude check.' Responding to the behavior in anger tends to just escalate it, in my experience.

[Trish]

DS12, my kind, compliant child, started doing this in the past few months. I treat it the same way I did whining when they were little. I can't hear whining, and I can't hear sassing or attitude. When he responds with a bad attitude, all I say is "Attitude Check." He can then rephrase it without the attitude or he can sit and chill away from the rest of us for a few minutes until he's ready to. If he keeps sassing, I can't hear or see him. There are blowups occasionally, where he keeps yelling or sassing, but I simply ignore him until he's ready to check it. After the first few times of complete ignoring of the behavior, he rarely needs anything more than a reminder of an 'attitude check.' Responding to the behavior in anger tends to just escalate it, in my experience.

 

That's very good, I like this approach too. It is SO tempting to respond to backtalk with anger (which tends to result in the type of interaction you're trying to avoid to begin with!), so it's important to stay calm, pleasant (if you can manage it), but FIRM on what you expect. In our case sometimes the offending child will "refuse" to go to his room! In that case I say something like, "well dad and I will have to talk about more serious consequences when he gets home" because outright disobedience is actually a bigger deal than backtalk. Generally my kids don't want to risk the punishment behind "Door B" because it usually involves missing a fun even with their friends!

 

Edit to add: I'm dealing with a 13- and an 11-year-old.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Trish

[Lang Syne Boardie]

"Do it again" worked for two of my boys so far, but #2 son is a tough nut to crack.

 

The arrangement for him is to verify from time to time that he understands this concept:

 

"Son, you are going to meet up with many people in your life who have very exacting standards for your behavior. Often those standards will seem stupid or unjust. Often the people giving you orders will seem petty, annoying, or restrictive. But since you are not the King of the Universe you will indeed have to humble yourself and figure out what is required, just so you can achieve your own objectives.

 

Some of your objectives that depend upon the good will and support of others will include opportunities, promotions, survival, and regular meals. It's a life skill to learn how to not irritate people. It's a life skill to learn to interpret what a person in charge means when they tell you to be respectful. I may be saving your life right now by giving you a chance to hone this skill. Do you understand? Whether you like my rule or not, you'd better learn it. Pronto. Or there will be consequences.

 

And by the way: Your performance is evaluated by my standard, not yours, so make it your business to figure out my standard. Note that others have been able to do this, and ask yourself if you aren't equally capable. Of course you are, so do it. Are we clear?"

 

I typed that in two minutes because I've said it so often. He's 14 now. I only have to say it once a month or less now, but he heard it almost daily for awhile.

 

I learned this one from my Mom. My little sister was the stubbornest little child I have ever seen in my life. Mom told me that she didn't expect Sis to obey or respect anyone because she saw herself as the smartest and best, but Sis could be taught to behave as if she did respect people in authority, and she could be taught to discipline herself to obey when socially required. This approach worked for Sis and for my son, so that's two success stories.

 

Never back down, Mama. The whole wide world will thank you for raising a young person who doesn't think she's royalty.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Tibbie Dunbar

[Mary in VA]

Well I don't have any great advice because I can't remember what I did! But just wanted to give you the encouragement that it goes with the age. I have two dds, 17 and 22 now, and your post brought back memories. I remember that 12-13 were the worst years with both of them. Neither one of them was very pleasant to be around. They would react to everything and little things would annoy them soooo much. Just want you to know that it does end! Hang in there!! Somehow it begins to even out and dissipate. Hopefully someone here has some great advice for the here and now. But for both of my dds it kept getting better from 14 on. They are both very pleasant to be around now. The specifics of what happened back at 12-13 have faded, kinda like the memories of childbirth:001_smile:

 

Mary

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Just thought of one more thing that a friend's mom did back when we were 12...

 

She traded places for a day, or maybe a half day. Mom played 12yo, and 12yo played mom- she prepared lunch for everyone, got younger siblings dressed, cleaned up, and if she needed help, she asked 12yo (mom) for assistance. At that point, 12y0(mom) would sass, roll eyes, whatever, mirroring her daughter's usual behavior to these requests.

 

My friend was pretty good natured, so she got her mom's point quite quickly and was better able to "see" her own behavior.

[kewb]

How can I get her to realized that her reactions to things she doesn't like (like me telling her it's time for a shower) or things that irritate her (like her brother making annoying noises) is an not ok behavior. She often reacts with a sassy comment, arguing, or back talk. She claims to not know she is doing that...but she is continues in that behavior even after being told. And truth be told eventually I lose my temper and end up raising my voice because it is so down right frustrating....and she refuses to listen to anything anybody has to say. I am sure this goes along with the preteen territory...but it is still not ok to respond this way...what can I do??? Please give me some ideas!!!! Ask any questions if you need more clarification. Thanks.

 

Are you living with my 12 year old daughter? On a good day, I try to remember to calmly tell her to adjust her attitude and if she still can't be nice I ignore her. On the majority of days it feels like I rant like a lunatic about her bad attitude.

[Carol in Cal.]

Let me know when you figure it out.

 

I'm starting to wish that I had been a spanker after all. At least then DD would have a fear reflex in the mix. She's 16 though. Not going to start now.

 

I do talk with her about it. Sometimes I insist that she do a redo. She often argues why it was reasonable for her to express herself that way. I state, repeatedly, that that does not justify that behavior.

 

I give her borage oil when she is really, really awful (the sure sign that she needs it is when I am furious. And it works pretty well.) I wish that it would occur to her on her own when she needs it. But no.

 

From time to time we have sit down and I point out that sarcastic, snotty television shows are not the norm for daily conversation; that if anyone talked like that consistently in real life they would have no friends and no romantic relationships, and that disrespecting others is the surest indication of being unworthy of respect or spoiled, neither of which she is.

 

Sometimes I talk about the unliklihood of holding a job or impressing a teacher this way.

 

I hope that someday this all gets through. By then I fully expect that it will be all her idea, and she will be lecturing me about it. I will just smile at that point, and tell her how much I love her. I don't need to say that I told her so. I don't need her to tell me I was right. I just need her to be consistently nice again.

[eternalknot]

Sounds like her filter may need an adjustment?

 

At times we've all been guilty of thinking we sound one way, when we're really being more ugly or less kind than we perceive ourselves to be. We just hear ourselves differently in our heads and intent than we outwardly share. If she doesn't see herself through the same lens that you are, it stands to reason why she claims she's not doing that AND why she'd continue to behave in the same manner.

 

It's sort of like watching the parent coach berate his kid on the field, thinking he's just being firm in his approach when he's really just being a jerk. I don't necessarily think he (or your daughter) always intends to be ugly, ... they just don't see it as being that.

 

If your daughter is just snotty by nature, this wouldn't work ... but if she's generally a normal good-day/bad-day kid whose been having more bad days than good? Show her how she's outwardly displaying herself. Hey, you can BE irritated. Shoot, the kids never mistake when I am irritated LOL. But one (all) need to learn to work through that irritation rather than display and share every last emotion. That's not only rude, it's a bit assumptious to think anyone cares that much about one's every last emotion, you know? Be irritated; be private about it, though. Or at the very least, respectful of how you ask someone to stop being so irritating.

 

I'd video her or record her. Let her see how she looks, what she sounds like. Get confirmation from people she respects that this is not the best light she's showing herself in. Point out how she does (or would) react differently if a friend was doing x-annoying behavior than her reaction when it's her brother; or how she'd respond to a friend's parent telling her to shower versus you. Ask her, rhetorically, to really think about why that is that she thinks she feels it's okay being snotty at home. Being more comfortable at home is one thing - we all have "days" where we're less than stellar. When it is more the rule than the exception, something needs to done to address that LOL.

 

Remind her that you share a lot of her same frustrations and annoyances, and ask her how she'd like it if everyone treated her with such attitude. Maybe even give it a shot for a day. I love a little roleplay :D I do it over the top so it's obvious my point is being made, and it takes the edge off enough that my kids are open to the lesson. Tell her you're working on the same issue (she's the annoyance) and that it's not about you being perfect and her being awful. Because that's true, and I think parents don't communicate that point enough.

[Rebel Yell]

I have a dd that needs a lot of reminders not to act that way. I think part of it is her personality, but a trait that needs to be reigned in for the sake of her future relationships. She too claims that she doesn't know she's doing it.

 

What usually works for us, is my matter of factly saying "I know you may not realize it, but your are coming across as ________ right now. Your (tone of voice, death glare, heavy sighs, etc) tell me that you are (angry, ungrateful, in a mood, whatever). You need to remedy that." I have also found that keeping MY emotions out of it helps a lot. (this is hard!)

:iagree: VERY very hard.

 

But I've heard one possibility is to have the kid leave the room, then come back in and repeat the scenario (So you would repeat "It's time for your shower") and then she would need to respond politely. Keep repeating until she does it. I think the basic idea is that this is so annoying to the child that they learn to get it right the first time around.

 

QUOTE]

 

I have actually tried that and I end up with a girl with a bigger/worse attitude than when I started. I wish it would work...and maybe it would if I kept doing it, but it doesn't seem to be the right trick for this child.

 

This might work for some children, but others it can brew very strong resentment and bitterness. I think of the verse about parents not provoking children to wrath (exasperating) goes along with the ones about children obeying their parents in the Lord.

 

"Do it again" worked for two of my boys so far, but #2 son is a tough nut to crack.

 

The arrangement for him is to verify from time to time that he understands this concept:

 

"Son, you are going to meet up with many people in your life who have very exacting standards for your behavior. Often those standards will seem stupid or unjust. Often the people giving you orders will seem petty, annoying, or restrictive. But since you are not the King of the Universe you will indeed have to humble yourself and figure out what is required, just so you can achieve your own objectives.

 

Some of your objectives that depend upon the good will and support of others will include opportunities, promotions, survival, and regular meals. It's a life skill to learn how to not irritate people. It's a life skill to learn to interpret what a person in charge means when they tell you to be respectful. I may be saving your life right now by giving you a chance to hone this skill. Do you understand? Whether you like my rule or not, you'd better learn it. Pronto. Or there will be consequences.

 

And by the way: Your performance is evaluated by my standard, not yours, so make it your business to figure out my standard. Note that others have been able to do this, and ask yourself if you aren't equally capable. Of course you are, so do it. Are we clear?"

 

I typed that in two minutes because I've said it so often. He's 14 now. I only have to say it once a month or less now, but he heard it almost daily for awhile.

 

I learned this one from my Mom. My little sister was the stubbornest little child I have ever seen in my life. Mom told me that she didn't expect Sis to obey or respect anyone because she saw herself as the smartest and best, but Sis could be taught to behave as if she did respect people in authority, and she could be taught to discipline herself to obey when socially required. This approach worked for Sis and for my son, so that's two success stories.

 

Never back down, Mama. The whole wide world will thank you for raising a young person who doesn't think she's royalty.

 

That is a much better and more concise version of what I find myself saying very very often. May I print this out and have it framed for my house? I'm serious. Brava, mama!

 

I have great kids and they still need to be reminded of this... I wish I had learned it when I was young. I was compliant and obedient, but it was just to stay out of trouble rather than true self-discipline.

[kfeusse]

thanks for the help and encouragment. I guess we just need to keep working on it.

[TranquilMind]

Carol in Cal:Let me know when you figure it out.

 

I'm starting to wish that I had been a spanker after all. At least then DD would have a fear reflex in the mix. She's 16 though. Not going to start now.

 

 

No, trust me, it would not have made any difference. Some kids know no fear. Some kids honestly think they are in charge and will break you to their will, regardless of upbringing methods.

 

I do talk with her about it. Sometimes I insist that she do a redo. She often argues why it was reasonable for her to express herself that way. I state, repeatedly, that that does not justify that behavior.

 

Nodding head at the familiarity....

 

I give her borage oil when she is really, really awful (the sure sign that she needs it is when I am furious. And it works pretty well.) I wish that it would occur to her on her own when she needs it. But no.

 

 

I don't know what that is, but I'm pretty sure mine would have refused and been able to hold her ground, no matter what.

 

From time to time we have sit down and I point out that sarcastic, snotty television shows are not the norm for daily conversation; that if anyone talked like that consistently in real life they would have no friends and no romantic relationships, and that disrespecting others is the surest indication of being unworthy of respect or spoiled, neither of which she is.

 

 

Nodding like a bobblehead now. Been there, done that, to no avail. I'm starting to believe the only answer is time, and the reinforcement of others outside the home who just will NOT put up with that BS.

 

Sometimes I talk about the unliklihood of holding a job or impressing a teacher this way.

 

 

Lol. Yeah. They REALLY CARE right now.:tongue_smilie: Although, you can bet that the outside teachers never see this side.

 

I hope that someday this all gets through. By then I fully expect that it will be all her idea, and she will be lecturing me about it. I will just smile at that point, and tell her how much I love her. I don't need to say that I told her so. I don't need her to tell me I was right. I just need her to be consistently nice again.

 

 

Well, I'm seeing slight glimmers now and then. I had a jaw dropping moment or two recently, when she spouted something that sounded like it came directly out of my mouth, and I realized that I had made some impact! And I had to NOT say, "I told you so." I want to say that gee, I've lived for well over 50 years, so trust me, I DO know a thing or two. Also, when she said, "NO, I didn't let them eat cake in MY space...then I will have to CLEAN UP" (not very neat in the past), I'm like, (inside) "YESSSS!!!)

 

For you: (anonymous-saw on the internet and can relate)

 

 

Through the ages:

 

 

At age 4: Mommy knows everything!

 

At 8: Mom knows a lot!

 

At 12: Mom doesn’t really know everything.

 

At 14: Mom doesn’t know anything.

 

At 16: Mom doesn’t exist.

 

At 18: She’s old fashioned.

 

At 25: Maybe Mom does know about this.

 

At 35: Before we decide, let’s ask Mom.

 

At 45: I wonder what Mom would think about this.

 

At 65: I wish I could ask Mom.

 

 

We are in the "Mom doesn't exist" phase. :tongue_smilie:

[fairfarmhand]

"Do it again" worked for two of my boys so far, but #2 son is a tough nut to crack.

 

The arrangement for him is to verify from time to time that he understands this concept:

 

"Son, you are going to meet up with many people in your life who have very exacting standards for your behavior. Often those standards will seem stupid or unjust. Often the people giving you orders will seem petty, annoying, or restrictive. But since you are not the King of the Universe you will indeed have to humble yourself and figure out what is required, just so you can achieve your own objectives.

 

Some of your objectives that depend upon the good will and support of others will include opportunities, promotions, survival, and regular meals. It's a life skill to learn how to not irritate people. It's a life skill to learn to interpret what a person in charge means when they tell you to be respectful. I may be saving your life right now by giving you a chance to hone this skill. Do you understand? Whether you like my rule or not, you'd better learn it. Pronto. Or there will be consequences.

 

And by the way: Your performance is evaluated by my standard, not yours, so make it your business to figure out my standard. Note that others have been able to do this, and ask yourself if you aren't equally capable. Of course you are, so do it. Are we clear?"

 

I typed that in two minutes because I've said it so often. He's 14 now. I only have to say it once a month or less now, but he heard it almost daily for awhile.

 

I learned this one from my Mom. My little sister was the stubbornest little child I have ever seen in my life. Mom told me that she didn't expect Sis to obey or respect anyone because she saw herself as the smartest and best, but Sis could be taught to behave as if she did respect people in authority, and she could be taught to discipline herself to obey when socially required. This approach worked for Sis and for my son, so that's two success stories.

 

Never back down, Mama. The whole wide world will thank you for raising a young person who doesn't think she's royalty.

 

 

Printing this for my fridge.