CC: Friends were on the verge of divorce

[JumpyTheFrog]

We just found out that some friends of ours were on the verge of divorce. The husband was about to leave the wife, and she supposedly had thought of leaving them. Their kids are college-age and all live at home.

 

The couple has had marriage problems for decades. I don't think they've ever gotten along well. Their personalities are very different and I think they both realize they never were a good match and shouldn't have married each other. Also, they've had lots of health problems and financial problems for at least the last ten years.

 

We knew they were having a lot of trouble, but didn't think they'd ever seriously consider divorce. They are at a very conservative/patriarchal church where I don't think the elders would ever support divorce for any reason. Recently they were both publicly put under church discipline, although one of them has since been considered "repentant" enough to not be in trouble any more. This is after years of counseling with church leaders. (It doesn't seem to be doing much good, from what I can tell.)

 

What do you do when a couple just can't seem to get along because they are too different and were always a bad match? There are decades of disappointments and bitterness to be worked through. I am generally very hesitant of Christian couples divorcing (when there is no abuse), but I truly can't see how they can ever be happy together, short of God doing a miracle.

[Georgiana Daniels]

I don't *do* anything but pray....except once. Because I'd been "in the know", it came as no shock when I saw the man with another woman that the wife suspected. I did convey what I'd seen (no drama, just the facts) just as I would also want to know.

 

Unless someone asks us for our advice/opinion/help, it's basically no one else's business, as far as I can see.

[Joanne]

We just found out that some friends of ours were on the verge of divorce. The husband was about to leave the wife, and she supposedly had thought of leaving them. Their kids are college-age and all live at home.

 

The couple has had marriage problems for decades. I don't think they've ever gotten along well. Their personalities are very different and I think they both realize they never were a good match and shouldn't have married each other. Also, they've had lots of health problems and financial problems for at least the last ten years.

 

We knew they were having a lot of trouble, but didn't think they'd ever seriously consider divorce. They are at a very conservative/patriarchal church where I don't think the elders would ever support divorce for any reason. Recently they were both publicly put under church discipline, although one of them has since been considered "repentant" enough to not be in trouble any more. This is after years of counseling with church leaders. (It doesn't seem to be doing much good, from what I can tell.)

 

What do you do when a couple just can't seem to get along because they are too different and were always a bad match? There are decades of disappointments and bitterness to be worked through. I am generally very hesitant of Christian couples divorcing (when there is no abuse), but I truly can't see how they can ever be happy together, short of God doing a miracle.

 

Stop trying to keep them married. This couple has been miserable for *decades*. They've stayed together, married on paper, under signs of an abusive church environment.

 

Stop defining married as "not divorced". This couple has not had a *marriage*, but your God's standards, in years. Be sad about THAT; not about the possible administrative end.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Let me clarify. When I said, "What do you do...?" I didn't mean me specifically in this case. I can't do anything. I meant in general, what can the church or friends do?

 

I agree that this church does tend to be abusive. We left a few years ago because of problems there.

[Unicorn.]

Stop trying to keep them married. This couple has been miserable for *decades*. They've stayed together, married on paper, under signs of an abusive church environment.

 

Stop defining married as "not divorced". This couple has not had a *marriage*, but your God's standards, in years. Be sad about THAT; not about the possible administrative end.

 

:iagree:

[Catwoman]

Let me clarify. When I said, "What do you do...?" I didn't mean me specifically in this case. I can't do anything. I meant in general, what can the church or friends do?

 

Tell them that you will still like and respect both of them, whether or not they decide to divorce. Tell them that divorce isn't the end of the world, and could signify a new and better beginning for both of them.

 

And tell them both to find a new church that isn't so controlling, and that will accept them, whether or not they are divorced.

[Joanne]

Let me clarify. When I said, "What do you do...?" I didn't mean me specifically in this case. I can't do anything. I meant in general, what can the church or friends do?

 

I agree that this church does tend to be abusive. We left a few years ago because of problems there.

 

You remain open to being friends to them both.

 

You make a safe place for them to process, talk, emote, cry, and punch a pillow.

 

You don't make comments about "trying" or "God hates divorce" or "fill in the blank with something they've tried for decades".

 

You find local, supportive, encouraging resources such as a Divorce Care/Next Step class.

 

You understand that it is very, very likely one or both of them will appear to go a little nuts in terms of dating/sex/partying.

[SunnyDays]

Pray for your friends and be there for them. That's all you can do. I think sometimes, no matter how much *everyone* wants a marriage to work... it just doesn't. Were they under discipline for issues related to their marital problems? How on earth is that a good idea? They need love and support, whatever their decision.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Yes, they were under church disclipline for their marriage problems. I would really be surprised if they ever went through with it because it would mean losing nearly all their friends in the area. I know how poorly the elders treated us when we left, and we weren't under church discipline.

[Bluegoat]

If they haven't had any counseling from anyone outside of the suspect church, then that might be a thought. It sounds like they are not big on the idea of divorce if they have stuck it out that long. The advice they have got from that kind of place might have actually caused more problems than it solved.

 

But whether you have the kind of relationship where you could suggest that to one of them I don't know.

[JumpyTheFrog]

You don't make comments about "trying" or "God hates divorce" or "fill in the blank with something they've tried for decades".

 

 

I definitely wouldn't start quoting verses about divorce because I am not personally convinced divorce is always sinful. At minimum, I think divorce without remarriage is probably allowed.

 

I have also read an article or two that the whole "no divorce and remarriage" issue Jesus spoke against was about kicking your wife out (putting away) without a certificate of divorce. This meant she couldn't remarry and so if she did, she was technically committing adultery. I have no idea if this interpretation is legitimate, but it seems worth looking into.

 

I would not recommend more counseling from their church, that is for sure. It isn't working.

 

I would support them either way. I have no idea what they should do. I am very hesistant to endorse divorce when there is no abuse, but I don't know what the long-term alternative is, other than continue to be miserable.

[Joanne]

I definitely wouldn't start quoting verses about divorce because I am not personally convinced divorce is always sinful. At minimum, I think divorce without remarriage is probably allowed.

 

I have also read an article or two that the whole "no divorce and remarriage" issue Jesus spoke against was about kicking your wife out (putting away) without a certificate of divorce. This meant she couldn't remarry and so if she did, she was technically committing adultery. I have no idea if this interpretation is legitimate, but it seems worth looking into.

 

I would not recommend more counseling from their church, that is for sure. It isn't working.

 

I would support them either way. I have no idea what they should do. I am very hesistant to endorse divorce when there is no abuse, but I don't know what the long-term alternative is, other than continue to be miserable.

 

They don't sound terribly *married* by any reasonable standard. I think the divorce has already happened.

[JumpyTheFrog]

The advice they have got from that kind of place might have actually caused more problems than it solved.

 

It very well could be the case. Although, I've been told the supposed "success" their counseling was having was the reason one spouse wanted to stay at that church after we left, even though they dislike many things about it.

 

It's one of those women "submit/obey" kind of churches. I don't think that dynamic is healthy for them, and I wouldn't be surprised if it had made things much worse.

 

They know our opinion about that church, and it would be pointless to try to talk them into going elsewhere. The spouse that I think would benefit the most from trying a new church is the one that wants to keep going there.

[JumpyTheFrog]

They don't sound terribly *married* by any reasonable standard. I think the divorce has already happened.

 

Yes, I can see your point. Still, I suppose they need to decide if they want to remain legally married or not.

[Carol in Cal.]

Support the children, if there are any. That's really the main thing.

 

Almost anything you do with a couple that is divorcing will turn out to be a mistake. If you agree that they should do it, you end up sort of at fault. If you disagree, you're not supportive. If you speak to one, you have slapped the other in the face. None of this is really all that personal--it's just that at teh point of divorce there is a tremendous release of misery, and it spills into other relationships.

 

Often you shouldn't take sides. But sometimes you have to, especially if there is abuse involved.

 

It sounds like in this case the husband is completely not fulfilling his church's mandate to love his wife sacrificially. It's true that the Bible says that God hates divorce (in Malachi). God hates bad behavior of all kinds--and this couple not loving and caring for each other in their marriage as they should is also something that He hates. Most of the time it's not an outsider's place to convey those truths, I don't think, unless the outsider is an extremely close friend with a long-established relationship.