lovinmomma Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 This is a long story, so I'm going to just give highlights. If you need more info. just ask. ;) When I was married I was very conservative, etc. Before I got divorced I kinda broke away from the church (not from God) and have been trying very hard to make my own opinions and decisions. We still go to church, etc., but I'm trying to make decisions based on what I believe. My children have never celebrated Halloween and I have never celebrated it. Last year on Halloween their dad asked me to bring them home from school so they didn't have to dress up or be left out at the party. I did what he asked. Soooo... fast forward to this year. This year the kids REALLY want to celebrate halloween. Their dad would not approve at all, but the kids live with me. :confused: This is why families are meant to be together forever. Grr... I can't take them out of school this year and I don't want them to be the only ones left out. I don't know what to do. If I celebrate halloween with them their Dad will probably not be happy about it. At. All. Any ideas how to have my own mind, but also not rock the boat too much???:bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovinmomma Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 P.s. They can't go with their Dad for that day because he lives in a different state. P.s.s. If you don't have anything nice to say please don't say anything at all. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I know what *I* would say, but I don't have to deal with an ex-husband and all that ex-husbands entail. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 If you don't have a problem with them celebrating Halloween, I'd let them do it. :confused: But I do not know the social rules of a divorce :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovinmomma Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 But I do not know the social rules of a divorce :grouphug: I apparently don't either. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 If compromise is an option, I would leave them in school that day (since you don't really have a choice there!), but not take them out trick-or-treating or to any parties or the other Halloween activities that might be going on. Rent a movie to watch that night instead or go out somewhere. Our schools here don't celebrate "Halloween" - they have "Fall Festival" instead (a little political correctness there I think since we will be well into winter by then). It might be worthwhile to talk to the kids' teachers about how to handle the "not celebrating halloween" thing - possibly your kids aren't the only ones with the issue or adjustments can be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma2three Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 If you don't have a problem with them celebrating Halloween, I'd let them do it. :confused: But I do not know the social rules of a divorce :grouphug: :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Soooo... fast forward to this year. This year the kids REALLY want to celebrate halloween. Their dad would not approve at all, but the kids live with me. :confused: I can't take them out of school this year and I don't want them to be the only ones left out. I don't know what to do. If I celebrate halloween with them their Dad will probably not be happy about it. At. All. Any ideas how to have my own mind, but also not rock the boat too much???:bigear: Maybe taking baby steps? You *can't* take them out of school, and he's out-of-state, so that's one baby step -- this year they can participate in the school's celebration. Maybe you could also hand out candy. Not so much celebrating this year, but acknowledging that other's do as you sort through your own feelings on the issue. If the kids wanted to dress up, perhaps you could baby step that as using what you already own -- sports uniforms, dress up clothes, etc. Since you're still kind of discerning your thoughts, I'd do it low-key this year. You may decide you still wish to not celebrate it the way everyone else does; don't do anything this year that might make it harder to reconcile that in the coming years. Or you may decide you want to embrace the holiday in future years; you can always build on this year by then adding new family traditions. I'd try to compromise where I could with the ex just because it's a belief he's long held and you once did. Compromising this year (even if he doesn't, you can) gives him an opportunity to see that it doesn't have to be the evil or non-necessity he thinks it does. (He may not take that opportunity, but nonetheless you'd have done what you could to provide it.) It gives each of you time to figure out how to handle the holiday moving forward, since it's a grey-area this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saraha Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 What about instead of calling it "celebrating Halloween" you could just say you are dressing up for "Trick or treat" or "Beggars Night". It might seem like splitting hairs, but we make this distinction in our family, and we allow dress up for t-o-t but nothing gross, scary, dead (excpet historical characters). They usually go as book or tv characters or whatever we can pull together since I never buy costumes. Or princesses. I have at least one princess every year because we have an extensive pretend/dress up/home movie costume collection. Would the ex let them dress up as farmers for farm day at school? Then let them be farmers for Halloween at school. Also, I just think I wouldn't mention what is going on at school for this holiday, or anything that is going on unless asked directly. But also keep in mind that respect is a two way street, and maybe if you go behind his back on this, he will start doing the same. Sorry, sort of rambling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 If you can't take them out of school, their dad can't get them, and you don't have a problem with their participation in Halloween events at school, I would let them participate. Making them sit out while telling them their dad doesn't want them to do it, but you don't agree, could just leave them feeling badly toward their dad. Divorce is hard. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujsky Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 You can get around this easily :D Have them dress up as a historical character or a literary character. Any of the Harry Potter characters? They're in widely-read books so they count. Pirates? Yup, pirates are part of history and literature -- double check for pirates. See where this is going? Just emphasize the educational value of it to your children ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 If you don't have a problem with them celebrating Halloween, I'd let them do it. :confused: But I do not know the social rules of a divorce :grouphug: While you don't want to alienate their father (I gather from your post he's still a part of their lives), it's more about legal than social rules. What does your divorce agreement say about decisions regarding school, religion, etc.? Do you legally share those decisions or are both of you supposed to agree? It sounds cold to talk about legalities, but it's really important. If you are supposed to share such decisions and you make one you know he won't like, he could cause problems for you if he's the type that would. If he doesn't get a say, then do what would make you and the kids happy. Or at least, not unhappy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookfiend Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 What does "celebrate Halloween" mean to your children? Just the dressing up, getting lots of candy from the neighbors, playing the games at school? Then negotiate between how much you can accomodate their desires while figuring out your own position and trying not to offend your ex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 This is a long story, so I'm going to just give highlights. If you need more info. just ask. ;) When I was married I was very conservative, etc. Before I got divorced I kinda broke away from the church (not from God) and have been trying very hard to make my own opinions and decisions. We still go to church, etc., but I'm trying to make decisions based on what I believe. My children have never celebrated Halloween and I have never celebrated it. Last year on Halloween their dad asked me to bring them home from school so they didn't have to dress up or be left out at the party. I did what he asked. Soooo... fast forward to this year. This year the kids REALLY want to celebrate halloween. Their dad would not approve at all, but the kids live with me. :confused: This is why families are meant to be together forever. Grr... I can't take them out of school this year and I don't want them to be the only ones left out. I don't know what to do. If I celebrate halloween with them their Dad will probably not be happy about it. At. All. Any ideas how to have my own mind, but also not rock the boat too much???:bigear: Well, what do YOU think about celebrating Halloween? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Well, what do YOU think about celebrating Halloween? :iagree: Your house, your decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 What does "celebrate Halloween" mean to your children? Just the dressing up, getting lots of candy from the neighbors, playing the games at school? Then negotiate between how much you can accomodate their desires while figuring out your own position and trying not to offend your ex. I was also wondering what "celebrate Halloween" means. :001_huh: If the children cannot be taken out of school, then they have to participate at least a little in what goes on at school, right? Does your ex want the dc not to acknowledge the fact that Halloween even goes on? Well, that's not gonna happen. But could y'all refrain from decorating the house with creepy ghoulies and have smiley-face pumpkins, and costumes that are not witches and little devils? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I don't know... I don't think you have to "obey" an ex for sure. (even if you believe you do while in marriage) It's really just not his decision. IF you left a perfectly loving husband to have an affair and screw over his life, then the just thing would be to stay in the tradition of certain family standards. If not, then I say go with what's best for your children. I wouldn't say anything about it, except to say to your children that you've decided that they can enjoy Halloween treats. If they say they'd like to do Halloween celebrations at night, I'd let them join whatever activities are in your town. (They will want to when they're a bit older, if they don't now... ) I'm pretty sure your ex put you in this spot, and so you make the best of it. That means that unless it violates what you consider "best" that you go with the flow. There are plenty of other spots that you'll have to be different because of your "new life" Seriously, he broke the "togetherness" from what I'm thinking... Take a small comfort in your new found freedom. And yes... kids do feel left out when they get yanked from the school parties :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I would make a terrible ex-wife. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 If compromise is an option, I would leave them in school that day (since you don't really have a choice there!), but not take them out trick-or-treating or to any parties or the other Halloween activities that might be going on. Rent a movie to watch that night instead or go out somewhere.:iagree: You also might want to consider the angst it may cause the children angst if their dad gives them guilt over doing anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Is their father aware that taking them out of class this year won't be an option? I would start there. Lay out the possible scenarios and then discuss. Not knowing how adamant or antagonistic he will be, it's hard to advise. KWIM? Could you discuss the Halloween issue in general? Honestly, I think the "really want to do it" would be one of the stumbling blocks. Of course kids want to dress up and get candy. Can you negotiate with former DH about how you will discuss with the kids the deeper meaning and why it's not something you want them to be fully caught up into doing? We didn't always allow Halloween, and we still don't go all out to "celebrate" but we do participate. However, we only do so now that our kids have a solid foundation of what they believe and why. Talk to him about making sure the kids have the full armor of God. Bottom line, if you can't take them out, they are going to be there and be aware. Keeping them away from the actual party, IMO, will do nothing to shelter them from the influence of Halloween itself. They are going to hear, see and know about everything that goes on and just not get the candy. KWIM? It's easy when someone is in an intact marriage to say "I would never" but the fact is, you are in that situation and you do need to do what is best for your kids. Sometimes what is easiest or feels the best to mommy makes too many waves for the kids caught in the middle. I understand why you would want to avoid that and I respect your willingness to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonlight Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 i would make caramel apples with chocolate candies... or can you invite some friends over for a harvest party? bob for apples, tie doghnuts of a string and try to eat them with your hands behind your back, paint or carve pumpkins, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristyB in TN Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Okay, Halloween is my favorite holiday. I love the craziness of it. We dress up, there's lots of blood and tons of creepy.I can't help it, I am a preacher's daughter. That said, parenting is different. You will never agree on everything and this one is a good one to respect his opinion on, respect in divorce is huge. If his feelings are about the satanic aspect of it, call him and tell him that your views are changing but out of respect to him, the kids are going to dress up like fruit or something, so they can have fun with their friends. Then I love the previous advice to have a little party, bob for apples, play some non Halloween games, watch Charlie brown! I would be a horrible ex wife. My husband would be worse. However, among my friends who are exes, the happiest kids are the ones where everyone respects the other viewpoints, perspectives, phases, and ideas. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 They can't stay home with you. ex can't take care of them. So, they must go to school. If they must go to school, then they should be permitted to fully participate in the activity. What you decide about trick or treat or attending friends' parties outside of school is another issue. I'd let my dc do it. I don't have a problem with halloween and I don't need to balance having the dc respect their father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almondbutterandjelly Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Well, if you want them to participate but not rock the boat too much, you could let them dress up as Biblical characters. Or sheep because Jesus is the good shepherd. Or a critter on Noah's Ark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Soooo... fast forward to this year. This year the kids REALLY want to celebrate halloween. Their dad would not approve at all, but the kids live with me. :confused: This is why families are meant to be together forever. Grr... i don't really understand this. Anyway why not ask the teacher or otherwise figure out what the school does on Halloween? Not every kid but yours celebrates, the activities might be minor, etc. I am not sure I remember it being a huge thing when I was a kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Any ideas how to have my own mind, but also not rock the boat too much???:bigear: I think Rivka is correct that you should consider what your divorce agreement specifies about holidays/religion. Assuming it either says nothing, I would think you have a fair amount of latitude with regard to what you celebrate and how. If it were me, I'd start by trying to define, specifically, why I didn't celebrate Halloween in the first place and why I feel differently about it now. Then, I'd have a talk with my kids about both of those things. It seems to me there is middle ground, here. Even if you do decide that you want your kids to have some kind of Halloween experience and there are no legalities standing in the way, you don't have to whole hog with scary costumes and decorations and tons of candy. If the school is doing any dress-up that day (and many don't, by the way), could you help your kids put together some simple, non-scary costumes? Could you plan to have your own "party" with popcorn and a movie and some treats? (You'd have to figure out how to make it clear you aren't handing out candy, if you don't want to do that. Maybe leave your front light off and try to hang out in a part of the house that does not face the street? I'm sure you have experience with this if you've never done Halloween.) I'd counsel you to discuss this with their father up front, anyway. What I'm sure you don't want is for them to walk into his disapproval. If you feel strongly about it, though, I wouldn't necessarily ask his permission, just calmly let him know that your feelings have changed and that you are going to let them give this a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwin Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I would allow them to go as something harmless as a way to compromise. I see dressing up on Halloween being the same as having a Christmas tree ... both are non-Christian in origin, no? Can we co-opt these traditions and/or participate in non-evil ways? I think we can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 While you don't want to alienate their father (I gather from your post he's still a part of their lives), it's more about legal than social rules. What does your divorce agreement say about decisions regarding school, religion, etc.? Do you legally share those decisions or are both of you supposed to agree? It sounds cold to talk about legalities, but it's really important. If you are supposed to share such decisions and you make one you know he won't like, he could cause problems for you if he's the type that would. If he doesn't get a say, then do what would make you and the kids happy. Or at least, not unhappy. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 If you never wanted to celebrate Halloween before, and you never did, but you're changing your mind and want to celebrate this year, then realize that you are the one changing the rules. Not the ex-husband. You understand where he's coming from, so this isn't coming out of left field. He cares about his children and doesn't want them exposed to something he believes is evil. We're not here to discuss the validity of that belief. We're just here to say he holds that belief. But, this is a belief you once held and may have passed onto your kids, along with your dh, until this year. And now, for the first time ever, you are thinking that perhaps Halloween isn't evil and it might be fun to celebrate. I think you need to be sensitive to the father of the children's deeply held beliefs. I think it would be horribly rude of you to dismiss them out of hand. If the shoe were on the other foot, you would want him to respect your deeply held beliefs. I would do everything I could to respect those beliefs, just as an act of decent human courtesy. If there is no possible way to avoid a party at school, I would let him know that the children will be going to school like normal on party day, but that would be the only celebrating of Halloween I would do. I would let this one go. It would be difficult (because I personally love Halloween), but I think that disrespecting his deeply held belief (and a lot of WTMers have a deep aversion to Halloween, so he's in good company), is a bad tone to set for your future dealings with him. Now, if you have more info, (like he doesn't really care about Halloween and is only doing this to cause you grief), then I might change my advice. But from the OP only, this is how I'd handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 What does the school do? I didn't know schools did a whole lot of celebrating Halloween? If they are just wearing a friendly costume to school and coloring pumpkins with smiley faces, that seems reasonable. If they are dressing up as evil characters and playing with ouija boards and fake blood, that seems unreasonable, kwim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomemom Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 This is a long story, so I'm going to just give highlights. If you need more info. just ask. ;) When I was married I was very conservative, etc. Before I got divorced I kinda broke away from the church (not from God) and have been trying very hard to make my own opinions and decisions. We still go to church, etc., but I'm trying to make decisions based on what I believe. My children have never celebrated Halloween and I have never celebrated it. Last year on Halloween their dad asked me to bring them home from school so they didn't have to dress up or be left out at the party. I did what he asked. Soooo... fast forward to this year. This year the kids REALLY want to celebrate halloween. Their dad would not approve at all, but the kids live with me. :confused: This is why families are meant to be together forever. Grr... I can't take them out of school this year and I don't want them to be the only ones left out. I don't know what to do. If I celebrate halloween with them their Dad will probably not be happy about it. At. All. Any ideas how to have my own mind, but also not rock the boat too much???:bigear: I agree with what a few others have said. It depends on the legalities. However, they live with you, I think its ultimately your decision. Most schools just have a fall party anyway. Most younger kids will be superheros or something fun if they school allows them to dress up at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbeym Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I would allow them to go as something harmless as a way to compromise. I see dressing up on Halloween being the same as having a Christmas tree ... both are non-Christian in origin, no? Can we co-opt these traditions and/or participate in non-evil ways? I think we can. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Most younger kids will be superheros or something fun if they school allows them to dress up at all.Most people I know of who do not agree with Halloween do not agree with dressing up at all, even as a baked potato. It is considered celebrating Halloween. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I'd be willing to bet that the school's Halloween festivities are pretty darn benign--more along the lines of a costume parade, math pages with bats or candy corn kernals to count, torn tissue paper and glue jack-o-lantern faces, and maybe a lollipop or some popcorn. I doub that they're going to practice biting the heads off live bats and driving stakes through vampires......but I've been wrong before. :001_smile: OP-- I say relax, let the kids go to school with a hobo or robot costume, maybe do something fun at home and then forget about it. Blip on the radar screen of life. The kids won't turn to the dark side, you won't burn in hell, and they'll remember the time Mom helped them make costumes for the very first time. If you're the primary custodial parent, and it sounds like you are if your ex husband lives in another state, then I think you get to make the decisions about school activities. Hugs to you-- it must be hard. astrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Divorce "rules" or protocol is that you can celebrate Halloween with them. And he can tell them you are a heathen going straight to hell. The courts won't care one way or another. Mostly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Soooo... fast forward to this year. This year the kids REALLY want to celebrate halloween. Their dad would not approve at all, but the kids live with me. :confused: This is why families are meant to be together forever. Grr... I can't take them out of school this year and I don't want them to be the only ones left out. I don't know what to do. If I celebrate halloween with them their Dad will probably not be happy about it. At. All. Any ideas how to have my own mind, but also not rock the boat too much???:bigear: Put your kids first !!!! Have your own mind and enjoy it ! He can be upset all by himself - his problem, not yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Divorce "rules" or protocol is that you can celebrate Halloween with them. And he can tell them you are a heathen going straight to hell. The courts won't care one way or another. Mostly. This is what I've been wondering. Is there really some sort of agreement about Halloween in the divorce papers? You are the full time parent so you make most of the decisions, right? IMO it would be cruel to send them to school to see everyone else in costume. How awful would they feel? If I couldn't keep them out of school for the day, some benign costume would be thiers to wear like something out of the dress-up trunk, a sports costume, in pj's with bedhead, SOMETHING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 A lot of churches host "Fall Festivals". Why not take them to one or two of those? Personally, I would take them T-o-Ting, but then I rarely do what other people want me to do. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 This is what I've been wondering. Is there really some sort of agreement about Halloween in the divorce papers? You are the full time parent so you make most of the decisions, right? It depends. Some decrees have language regarding the status quo, which - in this case - could be the continued non-celebration of Halloween. I've seen this used with regards to homeschooling, any how, and imagine it could be somewhat similar. So while not directly addressed, it may be indirectly addressed in the divorce papers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemykids Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) It depends. Some decrees have language regarding the status quo, which - in this case - could be the continued non-celebration of Halloween. I've seen this used with regards to homeschooling, any how, and imagine it could be somewhat similar. So while not directly addressed, it may be indirectly addressed in the divorce papers. Wow, good luck...I am sorry you have to deal with this..:grouphug: ETA; nevermind..you really need to find out the legalities of the situation. It’s not worth starting something that’s going to make you all feel bad either…I don’t know..:001_huh: Edited September 11, 2012 by lovemykids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinsfamily Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I think you should probably figure out where you stand on Halloween, first. Do your own research, pray about it, and listen to your heart. If you don't have any issues with it and think it would be fun to celebrate with the kids, you and ex-h should discuss a compromise. You might just respect status quo this year and make changes next year when you can talk about it. I don't know much about divorce, but thinks are bound to change over time as you two are heading in different directions. I agree with the PPs who said see what the school does and what modifications can/should be made. I live in a conservative area and wouldn't object to my dc participating in the "Halloween" stuff at school even though we don't participate in Halloween festivities. It is more of a dress up day. They don't even get to pick their own costumes, but are assigned a historical or mythical character that they are studying. I don't think they call it Halloween, either. A Fall Festival at a church might be a good compromise. Our church puts one on for our community and all are invited and so did our church in CA. We dress up, play carnival games, have a moon bounce, and serve dinner. It serves as an alternative that removes the objectionable Halloween elements and is a nice way to serve our community. Maybe that will be un-Halloweeny enough for your ex-h and fun enough for your dc. We still come home with way too much candy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 OP and dad are not married anymore. The kids are in public school. He doesn't want them participating in a school activity ? Too bad. If he objects that strongly, he can pay for a private conservative Christian school where Halloween is not observed. I have a hard time imagining that he would get past "go" if he tried to make legal complaint about them being allowed to participate in a school activity that was approved by their mother. Let them have their fun day at school. The kids should not have to bear the burden of their dad's restrictions anymore if their mom doesn't agree with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 If you never wanted to celebrate Halloween before, and you never did, but you're changing your mind and want to celebrate this year, then realize that you are the one changing the rules. Not the ex-husband. You understand where he's coming from, so this isn't coming out of left field. He cares about his children and doesn't want them exposed to something he believes is evil. We're not here to discuss the validity of that belief. We're just here to say he holds that belief. But, this is a belief you once held and may have passed onto your kids, along with your dh, until this year. And now, for the first time ever, you are thinking that perhaps Halloween isn't evil and it might be fun to celebrate. I think you need to be sensitive to the father of the children's deeply held beliefs. I think it would be horribly rude of you to dismiss them out of hand. If the shoe were on the other foot, you would want him to respect your deeply held beliefs. I would do everything I could to respect those beliefs, just as an act of decent human courtesy. If there is no possible way to avoid a party at school, I would let him know that the children will be going to school like normal on party day, but that would be the only celebrating of Halloween I would do. I would let this one go. It would be difficult (because I personally love Halloween), but I think that disrespecting his deeply held belief (and a lot of WTMers have a deep aversion to Halloween, so he's in good company), is a bad tone to set for your future dealings with him. Now, if you have more info, (like he doesn't really care about Halloween and is only doing this to cause you grief), then I might change my advice. But from the OP only, this is how I'd handle it. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 OP and dad are not married anymore. The kids are in public school. He doesn't want them participating in a school activity ? Too bad. If he objects that strongly, he can pay for a private conservative Christian school where Halloween is not observed. I have a hard time imagining that he would get past "go" if he tried to make legal complaint about them being allowed to participate in a school activity that was approved by their mother. Let them have their fun day at school. The kids should not have to bear the burden of their dad's restrictions anymore if their mom doesn't agree with them. This is a very antagonistic way to deal with the father of one's children. I don't advise this approach. And this-- The kids should not have to bear the burden of their dad's restrictions anymore if their mom doesn't agree with them. You just called the dad's belief a restriction. If he has a strong belief against Halloween he isn't 'restricting' his children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) IMO if mom doesn't believe in it and they don't believe in it, it is now nothing more than a restriction that means nothing to them. And I would not allow an out of state ex to control my decisions about the kids. If that's antagonistic - whatever. I'm antagonistic I guess. People are allowed to grow and change, both within a marriage and after one is over. Religious practices are no exception. OP is allowed to grow and change, and that will trickle down to the kids' lives. Dad does not have the right to keep them under the thumb of his ideas for their entire lives. Edited September 11, 2012 by laundrycrisis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Put your kids first !!!! Have your own mind and enjoy it ! He can be upset all by himself - his problem, not yours. It is not in the kids' interest to cause an upheaval or intentional disrespect of core beliefs with the other parent if that can be avoided.** The OP has a right to her own feelings and beliefs. However, she is showing respect and human kindness to consider how her choices will affect her children, and her ex (which by extension WILL affect her children). By considering those things in her decision, she is putting her kids first. Have your own mind and enjoy it is not always putting your kids first. Especially as the OP mentioned, when things are more complicated than we would perhaps like them to be. ** I recognize this cannot always be avoided nor is it always desirable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 It is not in the kids' interest to cause an upheaval or intentional disrespect of core beliefs with the other parent if that can be avoided.** The OP has a right to her own feelings and beliefs. However, she is showing respect and human kindness to consider how her choices will affect her children, and her ex (which by extension WILL affect her children). By considering those things in her decision, she is putting her kids first. Have your own mind and enjoy it is not always putting your kids first. Especially as the OP mentioned, when things are more complicated than we would perhaps like them to be. ** I recognize this cannot always be avoided nor is it always desirable. :iagree: Btw, to the OP, I am still not clear on how YOU feel about Halloween. You seem to be saying that your children really want to dress up....which I find surprising if they have previously been taught that Halloween is wrong. Either way, I still believe their father has the right to equal parenting to the extent it is possible. Why do you two live in different states? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) Whatever, we disagree on what is putting the kids first. I remember very well when my mom stood up for me against a restriction my dad wanted to keep on me, even though my mom thought it was ridiculous. She took me to get my ears pierced at 12. Yes, it caused upheaval. But it was worthwhile, and I still see her decision as heroic given the amount of courage it took for her to make it. I would still be resenting both of them if she hadn't learned to stand up to him and stop agreeing to make me live by his ideas even when she didn't share them. I very much appreciate that she chose to consider my feelings and desires more than his in that decision. He was mad, and he got over it. He also learned that his control had limits. That was a really important change in our family dynamic. I had a very conservative, controlling father. I have lived that. We all tiptoed around trying not to go against his ideas, which were often peculiar and quite outside the mainstream of the time, and not shared by our mom, trying not to make him angry because we felt threatened by it. My brothers were required to have crew cuts and wear button down shirts, tucked in, with a belt, to be allowed to leave the house for anything. They still feel sad and angry when they see their pictures taken at this age. Our mom never agreed that any of this was necessary but she didn't want to rock the boat. When she finally rocked it, it was very healing, at least for me and for her - the brothers were grown and gone by then. A whole lot of tension left our lives once she decided to have her own mind. What I offer is in the spirit of freedom and healing, based on my own experiences as a child in a similar situation. Edited September 11, 2012 by laundrycrisis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 :grouphug: it sounds like you've been on quite a journey. "recovering" from a highly restrictive church is a lot of hard, very brave work. :hurray: its so worth it, but its so hard. :grouphug: adding in an ex-husband makes it harder. according to your agreement, do you have full custody? full decision making power? this brings back many memories for me, so i'm having trouble being objective. having clear boundaries about what you share (and don't share) with an xspouse can make all the difference in keeping you sane. fwiw, i'd have the kids participate in the school activity, and then on the actual night i'd take them to a local church that does a harvest festival or a trick or treating at the church. then, if xdh asks, i could honestly say we went to x,y,z church on october 31st, and leave it at that. i would volunteer nothing. :grouphug::grouphug: ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticmom Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 OP and dad are not married anymore. The kids are in public school. He doesn't want them participating in a school activity ? Too bad. If he objects that strongly, he can pay for a private conservative Christian school where Halloween is not observed. I have a hard time imagining that he would get past "go" if he tried to make legal complaint about them being allowed to participate in a school activity that was approved by their mother. Let them have their fun day at school. The kids should not have to bear the burden of their dad's restrictions anymore if their mom doesn't agree with them. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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