just finished reading Atlas Shrugged

[mamajudy]

I thoroughly enjoyed this book. Although I disagree with Ayn Rand's anti Christian philosophy, I found Atlas Shrugged to be a compelling argument for capitalism. It is downright frightening how the news headlines coincided with the book as I read it. Now I have to get the movie out of the library (even though it got bad reviews) and look forward to part 2 to be released next month.

[mrsanniep]

I enjoyed it, too, when I read it several years ago, although I recall wishing she'd wrap it up in the last 1/4 of the book. Like you, I had issues with certain parts/aspects, but enjoyed a number of her long-winded speeches about the virtues of capitalism.

 

I know a lot of people roll their eyes at the mention of Ayn Rand, but not me! :)

[PinkInTheBlue]

That was one of the most thought provoking books I have ever read. It really highlighted things I had never thought about. After chewing on a lot of info and further reading and contemplating, this book was the catalyst for huge changes in my directions. :)

 

You're right; isn't it amazing how easily the current headlines line up with some of the attitudes of the book?

[SunnyDays]

This has been on my "to read" list for years and never makes it to the top of the list. It sounds like the timing may be right to hunt down a copy. I didn't know part 2 of the movie was coming out... never saw part one, but I'd be interested.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

I agree with everything the OP said, but don't expect to get away with saying it on here. :tongue_smilie:

[milovany]

I thoroughly enjoyed this book. Although I disagree with Ayn Rand's anti Christian philosophy, I found Atlas Shrugged to be a compelling argument for capitalism. It is downright frightening how the news headlines coincided with the book as I read it. Now I have to get the movie out of the library (even though it got bad reviews) and look forward to part 2 to be released next month.

 

I have something deep and very profound to say about Atlas Shrugged.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love the name Dagny.

 

The end.

 

----

(Addendum -- I heard the name Dagny and fell in love with it before I knew it was in Atlas Shrugged, but I do know now that's it's the name of the main character of the book, so believe my deep and profound insight had a place in your thought-provoking post.) :D

[klmama]

I didn't see the movie. At what point of the book does part 1 end? Or is part 2 a continuation of the story AFTER the book ends?

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

I didn't see the movie. At what point of the book does part 1 end? Or is part 2 a continuation of the story AFTER the book ends?

 

It ends right when Ellis Wyat (arg, can't remember how to spell his name. The oil shale guy) disappears and leaves his fields on fire. From what I understand they are tying to keep it as close to the book as they can and as part of that they are making it in 3 parts because it would be too long otherwise.

 

 

ETA: as a person who hates most movies made from books, I was not entirely happy with the movie. But it was good for dh to watch since I've talked about it a lot, but he couldn't get through much of the book. I think he lasted 50 pages. :tongue_smilie:

Edited September 10, 2012 by theYoungerMrsWarde

[Black-eyed Suzan]

I read Atlas Shrugged as a teenager and got caught up in the story and the ideas. It wasn't until I finished the book and stepped away from it that I realized that I disagreed with a lot of the ideology. I still have my copy of the book - it reminds me that a book can be thought-provoking and enjoyable to read even if one doesn't agree with all the ideas presented.

[LMD]

I read it last year and felt much the same as you OP. Loved it. I went on to read & enjoy The Fountainhead too. I'm no Randian by any means, I am a Christian, but I thought she was on the mark in some ways and waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off it in others! I immediately forced my DH and mother to read it too, and they loved it as well.

 

Don't bother with the movie though, very disappointing...

 

:)

[Georgiana Daniels]

I'm going to have to dust off a copy. I remember being influenced by her in college, but for the life of me I can't remember why :lol:

[angela in ohio]

It ends right when Ellis Wyat (arg, can't remember how to spell his name. The oil shale guy) disappears and leaves his fields on fire. From what I understand they are tying to keep it as close to the book as they can and as part of that they are making it in 3 parts because it would be too long otherwise.

 

It is very, very close to the book. Even to the point that much of the dialogue seemed to be exact. It's not great cinema or anything, but I love to see how a movie looks - the people the places - in someone else's brain.

 

It was also fascinating to see what sort of people go to see Atlas Shrugged on a Friday night. :D

[Pawz4me]

I can't begin to articulate how intensely I detest Atlas Shrugged. There's absolutely nothing likeable about it IMO -- certainly not the ideology (which I found incredibly disturbing), not the cardboard characterization, not the prose. I don't think I've ever wasted so much of my life on complete drivel.

 

And in the interest of keeping my BP under control, I'll try to keep me comments at that!

[angela in ohio]

...but don't expect to get away with saying it on here. :tongue_smilie:

 

Yep. :D

[Laura Corin]

I agree with everything the OP said, but don't expect to get away with saying it on here. :tongue_smilie:

 

You just shouldn't expect everyone to agree. We're a happily diverse bunch, after all.

 

Laura

[plansrme]

I don't think I've ever wasted so much of my life on complete drivel.

 

Well that was nice. Now why is it that discussions of politics are banned on this board? Hmmm...

 

My understanding is that Atlas Shrugged was never intended to be enjoyed as literature, so the charges of cardboard characterizations, etc., would probably not have bothered Ayn Rand one whit.

 

I, too, loved Atlas Shrugged. My 14 year old just read my yellowed copy for fun and also was deeply affected by it. Like everyone else, we agree with parts and disagree with others, but it is not drivel.

 

Terri

[mamajudy]

You just shouldn't expect everyone to agree. We're a happily diverse bunch, after all.

 

Laura

 

That's what I love about this forum. I don't think I have ever encountered such a diverse group of people who have a common interest (educating our children), and can converse in a (mostly) civilized manner.:D (maybe because the discussion of politics is banned from this board!)

Edited September 10, 2012 by mamajudy

[Pawz4me]

Well that was nice. Now why is it that discussions of politics are banned on this board? Hmmm...

 

How is that "politics"? I've read quite a few books of a totally non-political nature that I'd describe as drivel. And it's a relatively common term around our household for all sorts of things (television offerings being a chief recipient of the term).

[Mama Geek]

I read it sometime a few years after college and really liked it. I don't agree with Rand on everything because I am a Christian as well. Instead of feeling like the ending needed to wrap up, to me it was a really slow beginning. It took all that I had to get through the first 150 pages or so. I haven't seen the movie or read her other books. Hmmm...I should add some of her other writings to my reading list.

[Mrs Mungo]

I think people are better off studying *history*: the labor movement, the French Revolution, the robber barons. Sure, studying fiction can be an amusing way to pass the time, but studying history is the best way to know what people's actions look like under various economic systems.

 

And, frankly, I don't know why so many Christians buy into Objectivism. It is intentionally and vehemently anti-Christian.

[LaxMom]

I read Atlas Shrugged as a teenager and got caught up in the story and the ideas. It wasn't until I finished the book and stepped away from it that I realized that I disagreed with a lot of the ideology. I still have my copy of the book - it reminds me that a book can be thought-provoking and enjoyable to read even if one doesn't agree with all the ideas presented.

 

Yes, rather like when I read Catcher in the Rye and completely identified with Holden... And then realized he was having a nervous breakdown.

[plansrme]

How is that "politics"? I've read quite a few books of a totally non-political nature that I'd describe as drivel. And it's a relatively common term around our household for all sorts of things (television offerings being a chief recipient of the term).

 

Seriously? You may describe plenty of topics as drivel, though I would be hard-pressed to come up with a case in which such a term could be used to politely disagree with someone. When, however, you apply such a disparaging term to someone else's politics on this board--and Objectivism, while ostensibly a philosophy, is one very much tied to a particular political bent--the thread usually gets shut down.

 

Terri

[HelenNotOfTroy]

I am pretty sure that what I took away from Atlas Shrugged is not what most people, objectivists or not, get out of it.

[Melinda in VT]

Seriously? You may describe plenty of topics as drivel, though I would be hard-pressed to come up with a case in which such a term could be used to politely disagree with someone. When, however, you apply such a disparaging term to someone else's politics on this board--and Objectivism, while ostensibly a philosophy, is one very much tied to a particular political bent--the thread usually gets shut down.

 

Terri

 

Political discussions are banned on this board. Discussions of literature are not banned. Hence, this has to be a discussion about a book, not a discussion about the politics of the book. ;)

 

The poster in question called the book "drivel." She called the politics "disturbing."

[Catherine]

I read it in college. What I recall is thinking that I must be one of those people who is too stupid to run the world. And that it could have been about 1,000 pages shorter. Funny, but when my ds read it a couple of years ago he said almost the exact same thing!

[Element]

I think people are better off studying *history*: the labor movement, the French Revolution, the robber barons. Sure, studying fiction can be an amusing way to pass the time, but studying history is the best way to know what people's actions look like under various economic systems.

 

:iagree:

 

And, frankly, I don't know why so many Christians buy into Objectivism. It is intentionally and vehemently anti-Christian.

 

I was going to stay out of this thread, but I have to add a huge "I agree!" to this statement in particular.

 

 

Ack! Cannot. write. how. I. really. feel. Signing off now. :auto:

[Mrs Mungo]

Seriously? You may describe plenty of topics as drivel, though I would be hard-pressed to come up with a case in which such a term could be used to politely disagree with someone.

 

Fifty Shades of Gray is complete drivel. If people want to waste their time reading it, then that is on them.

 

When, however, you apply such a disparaging term to someone else's politics on this board--and Objectivism, while ostensibly a philosophy, is one very much tied to a particular political bent--the thread usually gets shut down.

 

 

If people are going to get offended that someone is bashing a book tied to their politics, then we cannot discuss the book. eta: It isn't that political *dissension* is not allowed, political *discussions* are not allowed. You cannot have it both ways.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[QueenCat]

I think people are better off studying *history*: the labor movement, the French Revolution, the robber barons. Sure, studying fiction can be an amusing way to pass the time, but studying history is the best way to know what people's actions look like under various economic systems.

 

 

:iagree:Well said.

[Amy in NH]

.

[Karen in CO]

I think people are better off studying *history*: the labor movement, the French Revolution, the robber barons. Sure, studying fiction can be an amusing way to pass the time, but studying history is the best way to know what people's actions look like under various economic systems.

 

And, frankly, I don't know why so many Christians buy into Objectivism. It is intentionally and vehemently anti-Christian.

 

A book that is very political that influenced the labor movement and I think is a great companion to Atlas is The Jungle by Sinclair. I read that book whenever I feel bad about my job. I also recommend it to all my young relatives studying the Industrial Revolution in the US. Like Atlas, I think it suffers from more political weight than literary, but I think both have their place in the discussions of economic systems.

[JessieC]

I read it a few years ago and will never understand why people take to it so much. I completely disagree with the ideology and found the entire book so unrelated to life as I experience it.

[chiguirre]

And that it could have been about 1,000 pages shorter.

 

:iagree:

 

It would have been a much better read if it was 1/4 as long as it is.

 

In addition to The Jungle, I'd recommend Dos Passos' USA Trilogy as a counter read to Ayn Rand.

[Dana]

In addition to The Jungle, I'd recommend Dos Passos' USA Trilogy as a counter read to Ayn Rand.

 

Milagro Beanfield War is SOOO good!

I haven't read the other two... maybe I should :)

 

I enjoyed Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged... but I last read them in college. I don't imagine I'd have the same response to them now.

[mamajudy]

I read it a few years ago and will never understand why people take to it so much. I completely disagree with the ideology and found the entire book so unrelated to life as I experience it.

 

Had I read it 30 years ago, I'm not sure that I would have been able to get through it. But I found so much of the story to be so timely, that at times I felt like I was reading the daily news! I will admit, the 70 page speech was a bit much.

[Karen in CO]

I thoroughly enjoyed this book. Although I disagree with Ayn Rand's anti Christian philosophy, I found Atlas Shrugged to be a compelling argument for capitalism. It is downright frightening how the news headlines coincided with the book as I read it. Now I have to get the movie out of the library (even though it got bad reviews) and look forward to part 2 to be released next month.

 

In the spirit of Objectivism's capitalism, shouldn't you buy the movie instead of getting it from the public library? :D

[Spy Car]

In the spirit of Objectivism's capitalism, shouldn't you buy the movie instead of getting it from the public library? :D

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Bill

[Mrs Mungo]

In the spirit of Objectivism's capitalism, shouldn't you buy the movie instead of getting it from the public library? :D

 

:lol:

[duckabell]

Had I read it 30 years ago, I'm not sure that I would have been able to get through it. But I found so much of the story to be so timely, that at times I felt like I was reading the daily news! I will admit, the 70 page speech was a bit much.

 

I have to admit that I skipped a large portion of the 70-page speech, but I did enjoy the rest of the book, although there were things I disagreed with.

[mamajudy]

In the spirit of Objectivism's capitalism, shouldn't you buy the movie instead of getting it from the public library? :D

 

:lol: No, I think I'll save my money.

Dot, just because a person enjoys a book, it doesn't mean that person has latched on to the author's philosophy. Some people are free thinking individuals.

[Jane in NC]

In the spirit of Objectivism's capitalism, shouldn't you buy the movie instead of getting it from the public library? :D

 

My dear, I shall quote you some day. :lol:

[Bluegoat]

I thoroughly enjoyed this book. Although I disagree with Ayn Rand's anti Christian philosophy, I found Atlas Shrugged to be a compelling argument for capitalism. It is downright frightening how the news headlines coincided with the book as I read it. Now I have to get the movie out of the library (even though it got bad reviews) and look forward to part 2 to be released next month.

 

Her love of capitalism is connected to her anti-Christian views. She believes that people ought to be selfish, that might (physical or intellectual) makes right and the weak deserve to perish. Christians are evil and weak because they believe that love is at the center of the universe, God sacrificed himself on the cross:eek:, and self-giving is at the center of morality.

 

She thinks capitalism embodies her values and that is why she approves of it.

 

As a Christian, that would give me serious pause to think before I embraced anything she argued for.

[Truscifi]

In the spirit of Objectivism's capitalism, shouldn't you buy the movie instead of getting it from the public library? :D

 

:lol:

 

I do agree one can read and enjoy the book without buying into the philosophy. In fact, I enjoyed it largely because it made me think through my own opinions and showed me how much I *disagree* with the philosophy.

[Bluegoat]

A book that is very political that influenced the labor movement and I think is a great companion to Atlas is The Jungle by Sinclair. I read that book whenever I feel bad about my job. I also recommend it to all my young relatives studying the Industrial Revolution in the US. Like Atlas, I think it suffers from more political weight than literary, but I think both have their place in the discussions of economic systems.

 

 

I'd suggest people might try reading The Servile State, by Belloc, who was a Christian. Or any of Chesterton's economic stuff. Or, as Mrs Mungo suggested, actually look at history - maybe especially those systems that most closely resembled what Rand advocates.

[Bluegoat]

:lol: No, I think I'll save my money.

Dot, just because a person enjoys a book, it doesn't mean that person has latched on to the author's philosophy. Some people are free thinking individuals.

 

That is true, but there is also a surprisingly large group of Christians that seem to have "latched on" to it and promote its view of capitalism. I assumed those are the people Dot was talking about. It is kind of strange and scary.

 

As far as people who read it to understand a very real view of economics that is espoused today, that is a whole different story.

[QueenCat]

That is true, but there is also a surprisingly large group of Christians that seem to have "latched on" to it and promote its view of capitalism. I assumed those are the people Dot was talking about. It is kind of strange and scary.

.

 

Max Weber's 19th century work addresses capitalism and Christianity in "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism". They were very much in tandem back in the 1800s (and earlier).

[Bluegoat]

Max Weber's 19th century work addresses capitalism and Christianity in "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism". They were very much in tandem back in the 1800s (and earlier).

 

I was thinking of Ayn Rand's view of capitalism. There is a real following of Ayn Rand among some Christians these days. Which seems weird since her reason for liking capitalism was because she thought it embodied a self-interested philosophy.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

I was thinking of Ayn Rand's view of capitalism. There is a real following of Ayn Rand among some Christians these days. Which seems weird since her reason for liking capitalism was because she thought it embodied a self-interested philosophy.

 

Just because that is her reasoning it doesn't make capitalism inherently bad, nor does it mean that Christians can't like it either. "Just because Hitler brushed his teeth doesn't mean you have to knock out yours."

[amey311]

 

http://aynrandfunfacts.tumblr.com/ - there are citations, in case anyone is interested.

[Bluegoat]

Just because that is her reasoning it doesn't make capitalism inherently bad, nor does it mean that Christians can't like it either. "Just because Hitler brushed his teeth doesn't mean you have to knock out yours."

 

No, but these people are accepting her presentation of capitalism. In her books she presents capitalism as good because it is selfish, it rewards the strong and throws down the weak, and that is the nature of reality and what we should strive for as human beings.

 

When someone reads her book and says they agree with her assessment of capitalism, that is what they are agreeing with. If they think her ideas about capitalism are wrong, then they do not agree with her ideas about capitalism.

 

When she writes a story deliberately designed to show capitalism as selfish, then yes, I am surprised to find Christians who approve of that vision of capitalism. If they themselves are actually capitalists, I would expect them to repudiate Rand's view and say capitalism is actually in line with Christian values.

 

What I think people sometimes really mean is that she has been accurate in her picture of the perils of collectivism. Which is probably true. On the other hand, we are hardly in a position to need to be seriously worried about that today - Randian style capitalism is very much in acendancy worldwide. And it's probably shallow to - a lot of the meagre collectivist attempts we see today are attempts to protect people against predatory capitalism - mostly to little effect.

[Mrs Mungo]

Just because that is her reasoning it doesn't make capitalism inherently bad, nor does it mean that Christians can't like it either. "Just because Hitler brushed his teeth doesn't mean you have to knock out yours."

 

I think capitalism is great. I think Ayn Rand's version of it has proven inherently dangerous to society. We live in a collectivist nation. It always has been. "We the people," is framing us as a collective. I love regulated capitalism. I also love collectivism. They are not opposing ideas, unless you are looking at extremist ideas.