This is incredibly sad and troubling to me...

[Jackie in NE]

..... first because of what the school system is doing to these children,

 

and second, because this poor little girl is back in public school.

 

I truly don't understand how a parent could do that. :001_huh:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/09/opinion/sunday/a-terrifying-way-to-discipline-children.html

[Lucy the Valiant]

Poor girlie. :(

 

Lexington is considered an excellent school district, too.

[CalicoKat]

nm

[pdalley]

Seclusion rooms are one of the reasons our boys aren't in the local public schools.

 

Yes, my kids victims of them. I could have understood them being used out of sheer frustration and fear but they never once followed a behavior intervention plan in the first place.

 

They should be outlawed because evidence suggests they don't work and they aren't being used in a proper manner (I don't think there is such a thing).

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Why in the world is she back in school?! I would have never settled for the school to just pay for psychological damage control. A nice cushy homeschool fund, private tutors, and the best field trips ever.

 

She stripped naked because she wasn't allowed to use the bathroom and dudn't want to wet her clothes, but goes back to school saying that it's ok, they just didn't know how to work with children!?

[bbkaren]

The old ruler-on-the-knuckles/paddling was cruel, but this is okay?

 

Terrible.

 

It's a comfort that my son is now fully homeschooled at last.

 

He told me in Kindergarten and First Grade "We weren't allowed to poop in the bathroom" - they were told to hold it until they got home. Can you imagine a young child having a restriction even this "minor"?

 

The teachers claim that if allowed to go #2, the children dawdled too much so they were "discouraged" from doing it there. But it's okay because "their bodies eventually get into the habit of waiting until they get home."

 

And our school system is supposed to be a great one too!

[Matryoshka]

:eek: That is unbelievable. I can't believe heads didn't roll. If a parent acted like that, CPS would take away the kid. And no one was even fired or reprimanded?

 

Lexington is considered an excellent school district, too.

 

And yes, it's considered a very excellent school district, with lots of wealthy parents extremely invested in their kids' educations. People pay insane amounts for tiny houses to get their kids into those schools...

[lisamarie]

Isn't that how they "break" prisoners in pow camps? The ones where they torture them until they crack?

[amy g.]

I can't say what I really think about this story.

[Lucy the Valiant]

And yes, it's considered a very excellent school district, with lots of wealthy parents extremely invested in their kids' educations. People pay insane amounts for tiny houses to get their kids into those schools...

 

I was thinking that might be a reason she is back at that school . . . both mom and dad need to be working to pay for the house & taxes (no idea, and I probably shouldn't be speculating - I just hope the parents are not feeling trapped :( - poor girlie, that is just awful).

[angela in ohio]

A few things:

 

1. This is only the parent's side. I have learned from situations from dh's school that a parent's tale can often grow quite wild. It seems unreal that anyone would send their child back to this school after that happened, which adds to my belief that this filmaker and journalist might be enhancing the story a bit.

 

2. All school districts settle lawsuits. That doesn't mean anything except that they lack funds to fight any litigation.

 

3. The increase in seclusion, etc. is more due to an increase in mainstreaming and an increase in dangerous behaviors than to a change in policy.

 

Seclusion annd restraint *are* ineffective as a behavior modification technique. That's not what they are (should be) used for, though. They are used to prevent a student from harming him or herself or others. Dh has used restraint to stop things like one student stabbing another with scissors, a student from punching a teacher, etc. As we mainstream more severe special needs students (often at the parent's request, but also sometimes by school policy or educational theory) into regular ed classrooms, more and more teachers who are not specifically educated to deal with them have to take a bit of training and try to cope. Obviously, some fail, sometimes because they are just not smart or nice people, sometimes because they just don't know what to do.

[SKL]

.

 

He told me in Kindergarten and First Grade "We weren't allowed to poop in the bathroom" - they were told to hold it until they got home. Can you imagine a young child having a restriction even this "minor"?

 

The teachers claim that if allowed to go #2, the children dawdled too much so they were "discouraged" from doing it there. But it's okay because "their bodies eventually get into the habit of waiting until they get home."

 

And our school system is supposed to be a great one too!

 

My dd wasn't allowed to eat most of her lunch because she took too long to go #2. Granted, it does take her forever - always has - but a girl needs to eat, right? She's in 1st grade.

 

I honestly think it's hard to know where the line should be drawn when there are so many demands on teachers. Is there enough funding to provide for capable staff to step in when a child is causing too much disturbance for the class to learn? Who is responsible to make this happen, and does that entity have the training to make good decisions?

 

Do we need to re-think the policy to allow every child in the classroom regardless of his ability to tolerate the classroom environment?

 

Obviously we don't want kids locked up like this, but at the same time, the classroom can't be converted to a lunatic asylum every time an emotionally challenged child has a moment of disequilibrium. I think there's been too much of "trying to please everyone" which generally leads to pleasing nobody.

[clarkacademy]

I am in no way saying this is right but then again...The schools are suppose to deal with behaviors and teach at the same time? How many times has a mother on this board stated they sent their kid to their room when they wouldn't listen? How many teachers and other students have been attacked by out of control students? This article also leaves out their point of view and it is very one sided.

 

We don't know what is really going on at all. These parents were smart enough to seek damages yet sent their back? I don't buy it. Either it wasn't as bad as they say or they could care less about their child or maybe they feel deep down they know this is the only way to deal with this child.

 

We don't know. This is like a parent who enables another to abuse a child. "oh he is not a bad person he just can't deal with kids". If they were educated enough to file a suit then they are educated enough to know there are other options.

[skeeterbug]

I can't say what I really think about this story.

 

:iagree:

 

 

The article doesn't say she returned to the same school...just that she is "back in public school" so it could be that she is somewhere else. We can hope.

[renmew]

After reading that there are so many thoughts racing through my head. I have only had a child with actual severe mental issues once in my classroom. We had a deal - when things got too rough for him, and he could feel himself losing control, he would leave and go walk around the classroom block a couple of times. This was second grade, and it worked great for us. He had not one episode during the three months I was in that classroom (long term sub position). Several other teachers in that block told me I shouldn't allow it, that it was dangerous for him to be out there alone? ... but we let kids walk to the bathroom alone, so...? His dad, who wasn't able to work because of this kid's issues, told me before I left those were the best three months in school for that kid. And I didn't do anything, just let him have a way out when he needed it. The idea to lock him or any other child into a room has never crossed my mind EVER.

 

Did these quacks see Matilda in the chokie and think THAT looked like a great idea. I know any teachers have it rough sometimes, but we have to keep looking for things that will work, not turn into bullies. Doesn't sound like these particular parents even knew there were problems at school. They obviously weren't in the loop as to the plan the teachers had in place to deal with whatever was going on. Tragic.

 

I didn't see in the article that the child had returned to the same school, just a ps. Had it been my own kid, we would have found a different place, somewhere, anywhere but there.

[Mimm]

Wow. I feel sick reading that. I hope that isn't true... What kind of message would that send a child? That you don't leave people who abuse you? You place yourself back in their power and make excuses for them?

[*Michelle*]

How can they do this? As an RN, I had to have doctor's orders for restraints. Do the schools?

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Do we need to re-think the policy to allow every child in the classroom regardless of his ability to tolerate the classroom environment?

 

Policy and law is what prevents me from getting my son into a smaller classroom. I was told constantly that he's tolerating it and functioning fine. He needed a smaller class with full time special ed teachers that regularly deal with kids like mine. His regular ed teachers were never able to pick up on his signs of frustration. The least restrictive environment is great for kids without an aggressive history, but parents should be able to request a more restrictive environment.

[Word Nerd]

My dd wasn't allowed to eat most of her lunch because she took too long to go #2. Granted, it does take her forever - always has - but a girl needs to eat, right? She's in 1st grade.

 

I honestly think it's hard to know where the line should be drawn when there are so many demands on teachers. Is there enough funding to provide for capable staff to step in when a child is causing too much disturbance for the class to learn? Who is responsible to make this happen, and does that entity have the training to make good decisions?

 

Do we need to re-think the policy to allow every child in the classroom regardless of his ability to tolerate the classroom environment?

 

Obviously we don't want kids locked up like this, but at the same time, the classroom can't be converted to a lunatic asylum every time an emotionally challenged child has a moment of disequilibrium. I think there's been too much of "trying to please everyone" which generally leads to pleasing nobody.

 

:iagree: The specific "solutions" mentioned in the article are disturbing, but so are many of the classroom behaviors that led to them. The question remains: What are teachers supposed to do with students who are a constant disruption to the class? How can any learning take place in an environment where so much attention must be given to difficult students? I know that for many here, the obvious answer would be that it can't and parents should homeschool. Fair enough, but that isn't an option for all parents.

[bbkaren]

SKL, I'm with you on this; so what should schools/teachers do? I have no solution.

 

Of course we could blame Governor Christie (or whomever) for "laying off teachers and causing large class size".

 

But I think the real issue is...a lot of these kids have never seen a boundary. Hence, they act out when presented with structure and boundaries. They are then "classified" and plopped on drugs to control their behavior.

 

That and a heap of excuses (I mean "diagnoses") that give the parents an easy way out rather than put the effort into raising their children the right way.

 

Of course that's not the case in all situations, but it seems to me that we suddenly (in the last 15-20 years) have a LOT of kids with ADD/Learning Disabilities and behavior problems.

 

I don't know what the solution is, but it appears to be a matter of reaping what we (the overly-permissive parenting generation) have sown. Kids with no clue of what's expected of them.

 

JMO, of course, but I do see where the teachers are facing an insurmountable problem. Locking a kid in isolation? Not allowing time in the bathroom? Terrible solutions...

[pdalley]

Policy and law is what prevents me from getting my son into a smaller classroom. I was told constantly that he's tolerating it and functioning fine. He needed a smaller class with full time special ed teachers that regularly deal with kids like mine. His regular ed teachers were never able to pick up on his signs of frustration. The least restrictive environment is great for kids without an aggressive history, but parents should be able to request a more restrictive environment.

 

 

:iagree:

I too wanted my kids in a self contained class room. I was told that was not possible. They were too high functioning. I think this contributed greatly to the problem.

 

But I think the real issue is...a lot of these kids have never seen a boundary. Hence, they act out when presented with structure and boundaries. They are then "classified" and plopped on drugs to control their behavior.

 

Uh, pardon me but my kids have known nothing but boundaries and structure. They are autistic. They were born that way. We didn't 'plop' them on drugs. It was a decision we put a lot of thought and effort in. It was a last resort. I spent literally hours at school trying to work out solutions. It's not always the fault of the parent here. I am raising my children right. They've been taught from the time they could understand that their diagnosis was a reason but never and excuse - that every person alive has struggles and theirs doesn't make them any more special or worth of a pass. Please do not make sweeping generalization. When I speak of the misuse of seclusion rooms I speak to the local system here and how they do not use them properly.

Edited September 9, 2012 by pdalley

[ktgrok]

:iagree: The specific "solutions" mentioned in the article are disturbing, but so are many of the classroom behaviors that led to them. The question remains: What are teachers supposed to do with students who are a constant disruption to the class? How can any learning take place in an environment where so much attention must be given to difficult students? I know that for many here, the obvious answer would be that it can't and parents should homeschool. Fair enough, but that isn't an option for all parents.

 

then a parent is called to get the kid. Period . Locking a child in a mop closet as they scream to get out, is NOT a solution of any kind, and not ok, ever.

[bbkaren]

...Uh, pardon me but my kids have known nothing but boundaries and structure. They are autistic. They were born that way. We didn't 'plop' them on drugs. It was a decision we put a lot of thought and effort in. It was a last resort. I spent literally hours at school trying to work out solutions. It's not always the fault of the parent here. I am raising my children right. They've been taught from the time they could understand that their diagnosis was a reason but never and excuse - that every person alive has struggles and theirs doesn't make them any more special or worth of a pass. Please do not make sweeping generalization...

 

...Of course that's not the case in all situations...

 

Sorry but I specifically stated it's not the case in all situations.

[Word Nerd]

then a parent is called to get the kid. Period . Locking a child in a mop closet as they scream to get out, is NOT a solution of any kind, and not ok, ever.

 

Of course it isn't. I never said it was.

[Mergath]

Sorry but I specifically stated it's not the case in all situations.

 

That's a poor excuse for making some very rude assumptions about special needs kids.

[Stacy in NJ]

Whatever the precise circumstances, I feel for this little girl. She's obvious not getting what she needs to function in a healthy way.

 

Having said that, As Angela points out, this article is written by her father and no information was provided by the school or district. It's one sided.

 

In large part I blame the public (the generalized "You") for this type of situations because parents expect and demand that public schools be all things to all children. Fundamentally, it's the responsibility of the PARENT to insure that their children are receiving an appropriate education and are placed in a healthy environment. Just because public schools are legally obligated to provided an appropriate environment doesn't mean that they can meaningfully do that. While we should demand that they do the very best that they can, we need to also understand the limitations of the institution as it is currently structured. Many parents don't want to acknowledge these limitations because then they would need to acknowledge they're own ultimate responsibility.

 

Also, these institutions don't exist primarily for the benefit of children. Education is now secondary. They exist to provide daycare and employment opportunities to adults.

 

Because of the structure of our daily modern lives parents simply don't know what to do with their own children for much of the day. We institutionalize them in large part because it's convenient for the parents.

 

 

 

A few things:

 

1. This is only the parent's side. I have learned from situations from dh's school that a parent's tale can often grow quite wild. It seems unreal that anyone would send their child back to this school after that happened, which adds to my belief that this filmaker and journalist might be enhancing the story a bit.

 

2. All school districts settle lawsuits. That doesn't mean anything except that they lack funds to fight any litigation.

 

3. The increase in seclusion, etc. is more due to an increase in mainstreaming and an increase in dangerous behaviors than to a change in policy.

 

Seclusion annd restraint *are* ineffective as a behavior modification technique. That's not what they are (should be) used for, though. They are used to prevent a student from harming him or herself or others. Dh has used restraint to stop things like one student stabbing another with scissors, a student from punching a teacher, etc. As we mainstream more severe special needs students (often at the parent's request, but also sometimes by school policy or educational theory) into regular ed classrooms, more and more teachers who are not specifically educated to deal with them have to take a bit of training and try to cope. Obviously, some fail, sometimes because they are just not smart or nice people, sometimes because they just don't know what to do.

[clarkacademy]

That's a poor excuse for making some very rude assumptions about special needs kids.

 

 

I have two special needs kids and I totally see what she is saying. I didn't feel she was making any assumption at all. I can also agree that many of the kids in these classes don't need to be they need discipline. My older was in ps special needs for a few years and after I met certain parents I understood why their kid was the way he was.

[pdalley]

Sorry but I specifically stated it's not the case in all situations.

 

Not the case with the majority of special needs parents I know. Most of us wouldn't mind our kids being in self contained classrooms - it's the administrators that insist on it. Which causes the problem in some cases.IEP's not being followed, Behavior Interventions Plans not followed. How is that the child's fault? The parent's fault? If we have to be at the school to make sure the plans we spent hours formulating are followed we might as well teach them at home. Some of us can do that. Some can't. I wound up spending more time at the school than I did at home. My kids we not in class - they were constantly being thrown out or pulled out.

 

See, this is part of the problem IMO, this attitude that it's the kids that are the problem - not the educational system. I'm not sure - unless you are a parent of a special needs child - anyone can understand how offensive and hurtful it is to hear 'We don't have the means to deal with those kids'. My kids have feelings and they are well aware that they are different.

 

The educational system needs to be fixed - not just for special needs kids - for all kids. This is a symptom of a much bigger problem IMO.

 

I have two special needs kids and I totally see what she is saying. I didn't feel she was making any assumption at all. I can also agree that many of the kids in these classes don't need to be they need discipline. My older was in ps special needs for a few years and after I met certain parents I understood why their kid was the way he was.

 

There are separate classes for kids that are deemed 'behavior problems not associated with a developmental disability' in this district. They are called IBS class rooms. So I didn't see any of that. I saw kids that were born this way. This colors my way of thinking, obviously.

Edited September 9, 2012 by pdalley

[Mergath]

I have two special needs kids and I totally see what she is saying. I didn't feel she was making any assumption at all. I can also agree that many of the kids in these classes don't need to be they need discipline. My older was in ps special needs for a few years and after I met certain parents I understood why their kid was the way he was.

 

I used to work with special needs kids, and I never met one who was just a normal kid with overly-permissive parents.

[bbkaren]

That's a poor excuse for making some very rude assumptions about special needs kids.

 

Well I disagree, I was referring to the many MANY kids that are diagnosed for convenience' sake, not kids that are legitimately disabled.

 

And most rationally, not homeschooled kids; homeschooling parents would seem to me, to be people who are MOST willing to put extra effort into their kids' educations. But there I go generalizing again.

[ktgrok]

And in the meantime, where is the rest of the class? Are they in the hall, waiting for the disturbed child's adult caregiver or a mental health professional to arrive and take charge of the situation?

 

How many people in the community are available to work as a 1:1 aide that can restrain children who are 5 feet tall and 200 lbs by third grade?

 

Who will be paying for/replacing the damaged school and personal items?

 

Who will be buying lunch for those whose lunch from home was destroyed?

 

Who will pick up the psychologist bills for the children who don't qualify for help from the school pysch, but need it, because of the violence they now are subjected to daily?

 

Much collateral damage is being done with this full inclusion policy.

 

There is space between "full inclusion" and "lock them in a mop closet". My son had a child in his 1st grade class that had to be physically taken out of the classroom several times. They called someone from the office to the classroom to handle it. When it continued the child was transferred to a school with smaller classes and behavioral aides in the classroom.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I am hearing a scary mindset coming out in this thread. The idea that diagnosing a child with special needs is a convenience so parents won't parent. I suppose there might be a token parent here or there who does that. But I doubt it is in any way a majority.

 

Our school districts (in this area) have special schools for children with behavioral problems deemed dangerous. Most of the news stories we've heard about improper restraint don't seem to imply dangerous kids. But kids pushed beyond their tolerance in situations that could've likely been diffused in another way.

 

What works for each child is different, but often the routines and methods that help a special needs child often can help a whole classroom. Allowing a child to get up and walk when it is getting to much, or to move to another spot in the class room to regroup or cool down. The option to walk down to the office and sit with the school counselor when it gets to be too much. There are so many more options that don't require injuring a child.

 

And in the meantime, where is the rest of the class? Are they in the hall, waiting for the disturbed child's adult caregiver or a mental health professional to arrive and take charge of the situation?

 

How many people in the community are available to work as a 1:1 aide that can restrain children who are 5 feet tall and 200 lbs by third grade?

 

Who will be paying for/replacing the damaged school and personal items?

 

Who will be buying lunch for those whose lunch from home was destroyed?

 

Who will pick up the psychologist bills for the children who don't qualify for help from the school pysch, but need it, because of the violence they now are subjected to daily?

 

Much collateral damage is being done with this full inclusion policy.

Are you asking these questions because of personal experience or speculation?

[PiCO]

Do we need to re-think the policy to allow every child in the classroom regardless of his ability to tolerate the classroom environment?

 

Obviously we don't want kids locked up like this, but at the same time, the classroom can't be converted to a lunatic asylum every time an emotionally challenged child has a moment of disequilibrium. I think there's been too much of "trying to please everyone" which generally leads to pleasing nobody.

 

I think we do need to re-think this. In my town, a high school student was stabbed with a scissors (not fatally, but needed an ambulance to the hospital and surgery.) The boy who did the stabbing was schizophrenic, and had been kicked out of two school districts previously for violent episodes, yet was unsupervised at school.

 

Yes, this boy has a disease and still should get an education, but not at the risk of everyone else.

 

However, I think in examples such as the linked article, teachers need more help and more education. There are a lot of teachers who really don't care about kids who are a little different, they try to squeeze them all into the same box.

[Mrs Mungo]

But I think the real issue is...a lot of these kids have never seen a boundary. Hence, they act out when presented with structure and boundaries. They are then "classified" and plopped on drugs to control their behavior.

 

That and a heap of excuses (I mean "diagnoses") that give the parents an easy way out rather than put the effort into raising their children the right way.

 

I don't know a single autistic or bipolar kid whose diagnosis is due to permissive parenting, and those are the types of cases where the kid get out of control. Kids that are a danger to themselves and others don't have an ADD diagnosis.

 

Of course that's not the case in all situations, but it seems to me that we suddenly (in the last 15-20 years) have a LOT of kids with ADD/Learning Disabilities and behavior problems.

 

These kids were frequently institutionalized before, so were "invisible" to most of society. Autism is on the rise, but nobody can explain that.

 

One reason you see so many of these kids in school? The family cannot get therapy services, respite care, behavioral workers, etc without putting their kids in school. Homeschoolers have no access to those state services here in NC. Our insurance won't pay for those things because they are provided by the state.

[pdalley]

There is space between "full inclusion" and "lock them in a mop closet". My son had a child in his 1st grade class that had to be physically taken out of the classroom several times. They called someone from the office to the classroom to handle it. When it continued the child was transferred to a school with smaller classes and behavioral aides in the classroom.

 

:iagree:

 

And if school administrators - in our case - would have at least attempted to follow the plans that took us hours to formulate they might not have had to deal with the problem in the first place. They never would answer me when I asked why they didn't follow the IEP or the BIP. I would get 'I'm the administrator and I have the discretion not to follow it'. I didn't have the money or energy to get legal counsel and quite frankly my kids needed better and we could homeschool so we did. That solved the problem for my kids. We made financial arrangements that if the worst were to happen to either of us homeschooling can continue through high school for all of them.

 

Not all parents of special needs kids are in that position nor can they be.

 

Or if they'd listen to parents who don't think 'mainstreaming' is the best option for their child. They won't listen. They insist on fitting a square peg in a round hole and get mad when it doesn't fit.

 

The Special Needs parents I know do not expect the school to fix everything. We understand it's not remotely an ideal situation for the schools, teachers, parents or kids. But as was said above - there's a lot of room between a mop closet and full inclusion.

[Truscifi]

I am hearing a scary mindset coming out in this thread. The idea that diagnosing a child with special needs is a convenience so parents won't parent. I suppose there might be a token parent here or there who does that. But I doubt it is in any way a majority.

 

Our school districts (in this area) have special schools for children with behavioral problems deemed dangerous. Most of the news stories we've heard about improper restraint don't seem to imply dangerous kids. But kids pushed beyond their tolerance in situations that could've likely been diffused in another way.

 

What works for each child is different, but often the routines and methods that help a special needs child often can help a whole classroom. Allowing a child to get up and walk when it is getting to much, or to move to another spot in the class room to regroup or cool down. The option to walk down to the office and sit with the school counselor when it gets to be too much. There are so many more options that don't require injuring a child.

Are you asking these questions because of personal experience or speculation?

 

As to the bolded, I worked for several years in the same office as a child psychiatrist. I can tell you there were many, many parents who pushed for a SN diagnosis for their kids that the psych didn't feel was warranted. Some of them specifically said it was to deal with the schools, some even said they needed the SSI check they would get with a diagnosis. (These were not parents who didn't work, but it was a very poor area and most available jobs paid minimum wage.) They eventually took their kids to a more amenable doctor and got what they wanted.

 

As for the "management" techniques described in the article, I have only seen them used in schools for kids with severe behavioral problems here locally, and that only after multiple interventions and deescalation techniques were tried. I can't imagine them being appropriate in a regular school setting, mainly because I can't imagine kids who truly need to be secluded for the protection of themselves and others being appropriate for a regular classroom where the teachers are not trained in proper intervention and deescalation techniques. Maybe I'm just lucky to live in an area with better services for SN kids?

[Munchkins_mama]

nm.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Munchkins_mama
There is no winning this argument.

[Rivka]

Well I disagree, I was referring to the many MANY kids that are diagnosed for convenience' sake, not kids that are legitimately disabled.

 

Just where, exactly, do you get your vast expertise about children with special needs? It must be someplace really awesome and authoritative, to give you such confidence to stand firm in your hurtful and prejudiced statements against all counter-argument.

[SKL]

Regarding overdiagnoses and excuses: I absolutely believe there are parents who refuse to accept that their child could need strict discipline and welcome any excuse to blame an "other" for issues. It's another child's fault, the teacher's fault, or the fault of a diagnosis.

 

As has been pointed out, caring parents of special needs kids figure out how to provide the discipline their kids need. But not all parents do - whether their kids have special needs or not. I have seen this in people I know IRL without a doubt.

 

I do agree that it's best not to judge, as the best efforts at discipline may not be enough to bring some special needs kids within the boundaries of "normally acceptable behavior." But it's also best to be realistic. Some parents need education about discipline, or maybe they just need a clue that their kid is not blameless in every situation. Failure to discipline is a form of neglect in my opinion.

[melissad2]

:eek: :svengo:

That is positively terrifying to me as a parent!

[celticmom]

As far as the school goes, that is yet another in the increasingly long list of reasons that I homeschool. Dd7 is not a compliant child and when confronted she tends to escalate.

 

In the case of the parents I wonder if they are of the "support the public schools by sending your children there at all costs" mindset. I do not agree with that view at all but I know it exists. Some of the anti-homeschooling blogposts and such seem to have that view.

[SKL]

Sorry, double post.

[kitten18]

 

But I think the real issue is...a lot of these kids have never seen a boundary. Hence, they act out when presented with structure and boundaries. They are then "classified" and plopped on drugs to control their behavior.

 

That and a heap of excuses (I mean "diagnoses") that give the parents an easy way out rather than put the effort into raising their children the right way.

 

Of course that's not the case in all situations, but it seems to me that we suddenly (in the last 15-20 years) have a LOT of kids with ADD/Learning Disabilities and behavior problems.

 

I don't know what the solution is, but it appears to be a matter of reaping what we (the overly-permissive parenting generation) have sown. Kids with no clue of what's expected of them.

 

What an incredibly offensive post.

 

 

That's a poor excuse for making some very rude assumptions about special needs kids.

 

I used to work with special needs kids, and I never met one who was just a normal kid with overly-permissive parents.

:iagree:

[angela in ohio]

And in the meantime, where is the rest of the class? Are they in the hall, waiting for the disturbed child's adult caregiver or a mental health professional to arrive and take charge of the situation?

 

How many people in the community are available to work as a 1:1 aide that can restrain children who are 5 feet tall and 200 lbs by third grade?

 

Add parents who *won't* come pick up their child, or teachers/admins who are worried about the parent losing their job. "Just have the parent come pick them up" is not a practical solution.

 

It is nearly impossible to find employees willing to work as aides and be beaten on over and over. Dh has a lot of trouble filling those positions. And it isn't finanically possible to pay for a 1:1 aide for every child. Parents like to crow about "all the extra money" the district gets for their special needs child, but it usually amounts to a few hundred to a few thousand dollars. A 1:1 aide, therapists, and special needs teachers cost a bit more than that.

 

Or if they'd listen to parents who don't think 'mainstreaming' is the best option for their child. They won't listen. They insist on fitting a square peg in a round hole and get mad when it doesn't fit.

 

It's not their personal decision; it's the law. If people want a change in the way special education is structured, they need to take it to their state and federal legislators. The admins are often just doing their job and trying to avoid problems for their school. And for every parent who wants a more restrictive environment, there is another in denial who wants their child in a regular ed classroom evven though it is entirely inappropriate.

 

Regarding overdiagnoses and excuses: I absolutely believe there are parents who refuse to accept that their child could need strict discipline and welcome any excuse to blame an "other" for issues. It's another child's fault, the teacher's fault, or the fault of a diagnosis.

 

As has been pointed out, caring parents of special needs kids figure out how to provide the discipline their kids need. But not all parents do - whether their kids have special needs or not. I have seen this in people I know IRL without a doubt.

 

Yep. I want to move to wherever others live where all the parents are perfect and responsible. ;) That isn't the reality here.

[bbkaren]

Let's also not forget the potential funding motivation on the part of the school. Schools get plenty of extra funding for each classified child. At our local public elementary there are more special needs teachers than "regular" teachers.

 

As for "my experience" - perfectly normal kids act out in class. The overextended teacher suggests perhaps add/adhd. School recommends a psych evaluation (paid for by the school), parent is relieved that there's a pill to take care of the child's behavior, then the rest is history.

 

Under no circumstances did I ever suggest that parents of autistic children are drugging their kids so they don't have to take care of them. Good grief.

 

The FACT is (not dictated by "my vast experience") that ADD/ADHD is greatly overdiagnosed in this country. A simple google search bears that out.

[mybluesky]

Why in the world is she back in school?! I would have never settled for the school to just pay for psychological damage control. A nice cushy homeschool fund, private tutors, and the best field trips ever.

 

She stripped naked because she wasn't allowed to use the bathroom and dudn't want to wet her clothes, but goes back to school saying that it's ok, they just didn't know how to work with children!?

 

This exactly. It's absolutely horrifying. That poor, poor child. How many other kids are going through this?

[bbkaren]

What an incredibly offensive post.

 

Whatever. Sorry to offend you. No generalization was made. I specifically stated that it's certainly not all cases.

 

I believe that many parents not being able/willing to effectively raise a child is a trend that's gone on for decades. Probably since both parents began working and leaving their kids in daycare in the morning to catch the bus to school, then go back to daycare until brought home for supper - then bed.

 

When those kids became parents, they didn't know anything different. They come home exhausted from work to a bad-news note in a backpack and don't know what to do.

 

In my [offensive] opinion, this is a trend that is just now starting to bear fruit.

 

But, okay, if my opinion offends, I'll try to be more politically correct in the future.

[jenncslp]

This has happened many times here in Tennessee, and is one of the reasons why I homeschool. It is not uncommon and burns me up!!!!:rant:

[bbkaren]

...to give you such confidence to stand firm in your hurtful and prejudiced statements against all counter-argument.

 

In addition, is disagreeing not permitted on this board? I didn't say anyone was wrong in THEIR opinions. I said I disagree.

[stripe]

I have heard the single biggest percentage of children being punished and even expelled is in preschool. That's right, not middle school students, not high school students, but three and four year olds. At three times the rate of k-12 students. Some salient points are made about it in this piece in the CSMonitor http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0602/p09s01-coop.html, including the observation that "Expulsion rates were also higher in private and faith-based preschools than in programs run by Head Start or other organizations, though the report emphasized that center-based access to a behavioral consultant cut the expulsion rate by nearly half." So it's not just permissive, single parent poor kids whose savage, uncaring mother didn't raise them right.

 

Personally I see a correlation with the idea that the routine is being interrupted and the teacher/school cannot handle any sort of variation to the plan, and it is perceived as a crisis that someone has to pee or gets wiggly, between preschool students and special needs kids: too much of a one size fits all idea, and no room in the schedule to accomodate anything else. It sure sounds a lot like prison.