R&S Grammar; Grammar Curriculum you love.

[kaymom]

I need some help and am not sure if I should try a different curriculum for grammar or stick it out. We've only been using R&S for 2 weeks, but my son isn't getting it and even though the book seems thorough, it's not enough for him. Specifically, he doesn't understand the simple subject/predicate and how to find it, but now we are supposed to move on to diagramming. I can't find too much online as far as worksheets that also come with answers (grammar is not my best subject either and that doesn't help). He's coming out of public school and has never really studied grammar. I am wondering if anyone can give suggestions. Should we have started in a lower grade or maybe there's program out there that's better.

[Ellie]

You don't say how old he is or which R&S English text you're using. :-)

 

But my best advice is to stick it out. Do the oral class time with him (you have the teacher manual, yes?), and be patient.

[kaymom]

He's in 4th grade and is 10 years old. We have been doing the oral lessons and the written ones too.

[redsquirrel]

Why don't you check out First Language Lessons 3. It starts very simply and starts diagramming at the most basic level. It covers the basics and walks you through. It is scripted. You read from the teacher's book and the student has the student workbook.

[besroma]

Did you start with Rod and Staff grade 3 or grade 4?

 

I would consider getting MCT's Grammar Island and working through that with him, then sticking with Rod and Staff.

 

If you started with Rod and Staff grade 4 and he is struggling with that, you could also step back to grade 3, but I would probably go the Grammar Island route because it is a fun way to review subject and predicate. Trying a different approach with him might help make it "stick."

[edeemarie]

My son was still not doing well with R&S after 2 years of using it, so we moved to KISS grammar. He does very well with it and actually seems to be retaining what he is learning.

[Hunter]

I'm finding that most students do better starting with grades 1 or 2 grammar, when starting an intensive rigorous grammar series.

 

Too often people drop Saxon and R&S and other great series, because they have placed the student too high. I'm a big fan of using rigorous series, below grade level, for average and remedial students. Switching to series designed for average and remedial students often doesn't seem to provide the same benefit, as just moving down in a top quality series written for younger students.

 

I had been starting all my adult remedial students in grade 2 Climbing to Good English (Amish workbook series). I just ordered grade 1--which is taking FOREVER to arrive--and might be starting all students in Grade 1. I don't have ALL students do every lesson, but I start them LOW, and THEN figure out what to do from there. And some just need to stay low and maybe even move along slower, than 1 book a year. I repeat a lot of the generic composition exercises, and use model sentences for sentence composition exercises.

 

I think of books as levels not grades. In the past an 8th grade education was a big deal and many students stayed back over and over. The average student did NOT do all 8 grades in 8 years. Only SOME of them did. Graduating grade 8 was a big deal and going to high school was an even bigger deal.

 

My preference is to move slowly though quality, than to FAKE keeping up with the Joneses. But that's ME and not necessarily applicable to others. :tongue_smilie:

 

For students that are not committed to working through the CGE series, I sometimes use these workbooks that I posted in another thread. Here is the grade 1-2 workbook of the series, that I didn't post there.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Hunter

[Marsha SC]

I'm wondering if you also got the extra Worksheet book. We have used them throughout. The worksheets are just extra work for specific lessons. They just help cement the idea.

 

Hope that helped a bit.

 

Marsha

[janainaz]

I would use FLL first. I think the only reason R&S worked for us (we started in grade 5 after completing FLL 1-4) was because FLL was such an excellent foundation in grammar.

[freesia]

Another option would be to stop and just work on the idea of simple subject and simple predicate until he has it. I was doing this today with my daughter. I would choose sentences out of a book and ask her what the simple subject was. We are moving on to predicates tomorrow. Sometimes you just need to sit with an idea for a while. I doubt an easier program or even a younger one would fix anything. Another option would be to wait a year and just spend the year identifying parts of speech (nouns, verbs, adjectives, prepositions, adverbs, etc.) I don't really do much grammar until fifth grade and it worked out fine for my oldest. Sometimes it takes a bit of maturity to analyze things.

[monalisa]

I will be a dissenter for FLL 3. My dd did fine with FLL 1 and 2 (and I would use them again with another child), but FLL3 was a bust. There was very little retention. I just switched her to R&S 4 and it is a breath of fresh air for both of us. The biggest improvement is that there is instruction in her textbook. I hated that all of the instruction was in the FLL teacher's guide, and she would just tune me out. I actually have her read aloud at least 1/2 of the lesson to me. Then we do the oral and written practice (though most of the written I have her do orally, or I photo copy the written practice page and use it like a worksheet). If you don't like R&S 4, I have a hard time imagining you will like FLL3 (but I could very well be wrong). My dd could mindlessly fill in the worksheet pages without me even going through the scripted lesson. The only things she retained were the jingles for the parts of speech (helping verbs, state of being verbs, prepositions) and she did enjoy the poetry. I will tell you though that my dd does not totally have the simple predicate/simple subject mastered; she is getting it, and did well on the lesson 8 worksheet today, but I can see she will need review for it to stick. And she covered this back in FLL3 too, but it is like it is new to her.

[janainaz]

My son just started second grade in August, and we're doing FLL3. FLL 1&2 were completed in first grade. I doubled up on lessons because most of them took no longer than 5-10 minutes (and my ds was ready to move forward).

 

I can also see where my ds may not fully grasp the subject/predicate concepts. We're already on lesson 60, and it's really picking up the pace.

 

However, like with math facts, the continued recitation and review of nouns, pronouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, prepositions, etc. - it does all starts to stick! I decided that we would go through FLL3 again if I feel that my ds needs it.

 

I NEVER give my son the workbook page and let him do it on his own (not that anyone has suggested they've done that), but I make sure he's engaged for every.single.part of what we do.

[Clear Creek]

He's in 4th grade and is 10 years old. We have been doing the oral lessons and the written ones too.

 

My oldest daughter stalled out at that point in the book, as well. I just made up worksheets on my computer with very simple sentences and had her practice diagramming 8 or 10 sentences every day until she got the concept. It took about two weeks, but once she understood it, it was smooth sailing through the rest of the book. There is no harm in camping out on a topic until he understands it. Your goal is comprehension of English grammar, not completing X number of lessons in Y number of days.