ACE, TT or MUS for struggling & behind DD

[mumkins]

I have tried saxon, MUS, BJU, McRuffy's, TT...just to name a few. We are CLE. She's crying. 1 lesson in 401, the review of grade 3, is taking over half an hour.

 

I don't know how to help her. I can't just keep switching either. She's overwhelmed by the 4 page layout.

 

Maybe ACE because she can do the diagnostic and only do the books she needs?

 

Part of me thinks we should go back to MUS. I left it because if she couldn't get a concept, she couldn't go on and could end up stuck for weeks. But, maybe what she needs is one concept?

 

Or maybe TT? It makes it so there's no whining to me about how hard it is.

 

Or?

[JaneP]

How much CLE had she done before she tried the 401? Had you done the diagnostic test so you knew which level to start with?

 

Could you try ignoring the lesson breaks and assign less pages?

 

I think CLE math is good for a struggling student as it regularly reviews concepts so maybe consider adapting it rather than switching.

 

:grouphug: I know how hard these math struggles can be.

Edited September 6, 2012 by JaneP

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

My ds is doing AH-MAZ-ING with Developmental Math. Check it out!

[mumkins]

How much CLE had she done before she tried the 401? Had you done the diagnostic test so you knew which level to start with?

 

Could you try ignoring the lesson breaks and assign less pages?

 

I think CLE math is good for a struggling student as it regularly reviews concepts so maybe consider adapting it rather than switching.

 

:grouphug: I know how hard these math struggles can be.

 

 

I could try that.

 

I had bought 3rd grade CLE before I sent them to school. She finished up to about 308 and then I sent them. I thought 401 would be enough of a review and I'd just go over what she struggled with. Maybe I'll tweak it.

[mumkins]

My ds is doing AH-MAZ-ING with Developmental Math. Check it out!

 

Thanks, I will!

[Michelle My Bell]

We usually skip the first book of each grade because there is already so much review built in. Also, you could do the extra light units out of your TM and have her skip books of already mastered concepts. She could progress much faster that way. To me, it sounds like she is frustrated doing things she already understands. I would move forward, not change curriculum.

[JaneP]

We usually skip the first book of each grade because there is already so much review built in. Also, you could do the extra light units out of your TM and have her skip books of already mastered concepts. She could progress much faster that way. To me, it sounds like she is frustrated doing things she already understands. I would move forward, not change curriculum.

 

I know lots of children can successfully skip the first lightunit of each math level because it is a review of the previous level but in this case I think your dd probably should do 401 since she hadn't done any CLE since being put into school and hadn't actually finished level three before she went.

 

However, I assumed your dd was crying because she couldn't understand or complete the work; maybe there is another source of frustration as Michelle suggested?

 

Can you work out why she is crying? Is the difficulty of the work or the amount of the work?

[mumkins]

She's frustrated because it's taking her so long to do the work of 4th graders. She can do it, but it takes her a long time and it's very hard. She can never remember her facts and she says she's confused. She is behind and she just wants to catch up.

[JaneP]

She's frustrated because it's taking her so long to do the work of 4th graders. She can do it, but it takes her a long time and it's very hard. She can never remember her facts and she says she's confused. She is behind and she just wants to catch up.

 

How many weeks have you been back at homeschool? Is she finding the lessons long because she is just getting back into routine?

 

I would recommend splitting the lessons into two for at least a time. Splitting lessons into two for a limited time would work for my family because we don't take long breaks from school so we probably average 46 weeks a year and I would also be prepared to assign a half lesson each Saturday as well. This advice may of course not work for your family.

 

I know this seems contrary to her desire to "catch up" but I have found that you can't rush through math when your dc is struggling. I switched my dd to CLE when she was in third grade and she placed in mid level one. We have also had to set aside our light units for a week or two occasionally when we have had to "sit" on a topic.

 

Also, the fact that she is struggling with her facts needs addressing as I think by CLE level 4 they are really expected to know at least their addition and subtraction facts very solidly.

 

Anyway, just hoping this keeps the conversation going for you. I have spent many hours worrying about my dc's math curriculum :(

 

Edited to add: I have also heard some Moms cross out questions prior to assigning a lesson if they know their dc can do them. Could that also work for you?

Edited September 7, 2012 by JaneP

[shinyhappypeople]

She's frustrated because it's taking her so long to do the work of 4th graders. She can do it, but it takes her a long time and it's very hard. She can never remember her facts and she says she's confused. She is behind and she just wants to catch up.

 

IMO, it's too early to jump ship on CLE just yet.

 

Does she have math tables she can use when she's not sure of the answer? Maybe having to rely on her memory for the math facts is stressing her?

 

My "4th" grade DD is finishing grade 2 math right now. I saw a dramatic improvement when I carried Andrew Pudewa's writing advice into our math lessons. He said, "You can never help a child too much. When they know how to do it, they won't let you help anymore." I was skeptical, but I tried it with older DD's math lessons and he was 100% right.

 

I went as far as taking the pencil and working our the first few problems with the understanding that she watches and listens. I talked my way through them, "and I know 12 is really 10 and 2, so I'll put the 2 in the ones column and stick the 1 - which is really ten - in the tens column... " etc.) Every.single.lesson she's eventually grabbed the pencil from me and finished the lesson. She is learning a ton and feeling more positive about math. FWIW.

 

Good luck to you and your DD. :grouphug:

[Michelle My Bell]

OK, I misunderstood. CLE can be advanced for many students. You may need to back up into the previous grade. But, CLE is very easy to get through quickly. What you need to do is do 2 lessons a day. This is how....

 

Do the new material at the beginning of the lesson. Once your child has completed all of that, move into the review section. Go over this part very quickly. Skip material you KNOW she understands, or just do 1 or 2 problems. Do all the problems for areas you know she needs more work on. All of this should take less than half the time it takes to do a whole lesson.

 

Next, move onto the next lesson. Do the same steps as outlined above.

 

Every few lessons, have your child do just one whole lesson.

 

Gauge your child's progress with the quizzes and tests. If she is passing those with ease you know she is getting it.

 

Following this plan will eliminate a lot of frustrations.

[Alison in KY]

I have tried saxon, MUS, BJU, McRuffy's, TT...just to name a few. We are CLE. She's crying. 1 lesson in 401, the review of grade 3, is taking over half an hour.

 

I don't know how to help her. I can't just keep switching either. She's overwhelmed by the 4 page layout.

 

Maybe ACE because she can do the diagnostic and only do the books she needs?

 

Part of me thinks we should go back to MUS. I left it because if she couldn't get a concept, she couldn't go on and could end up stuck for weeks. But, maybe what she needs is one concept?

 

Or maybe TT? It makes it so there's no whining to me about how hard it is.

 

Or?

 

If you want to go back to MUS, you can print extra worksheets out from their site.

 

I flip flopped our first few years of school. My son would always hit major brick walls in math. It took me awhile before I decided that for us there wasn't one curriculum out there that worked for him. I just had to slow down and not push him through the book to get done. I chose math u see because I thought it had more common sense than other programs. But, we still hit those brick walls. We just either stop on that concept for awhile and do review, or slowly go through the program each day. I try to take things like a turtle, even though I want to be through those books like a rabbit!

[TengoFive]

My math hater liked Aleks. You can try it online for free. I wouldn't use it from here on out, but its nice to get them over that hump of hating it. She really liked seeing the pie graph filled in of concepts mastered.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

Would you share a link for this, please? I've Googled, but a number of books come up. Thanks!

 

 

Here ya go

[mumkins]

How many weeks have you been back at homeschool? Is she finding the lessons long because she is just getting back into routine?

 

I would recommend splitting the lessons into two for at least a time. Splitting lessons into two for a limited time would work for my family because we don't take long breaks from school so we probably average 46 weeks a year and I would also be prepared to assign a half lesson each Saturday as well. This advice may of course not work for your family.

 

I know this seems contrary to her desire to "catch up" but I have found that you can't rush through math when your dc is struggling. I switched my dd to CLE when she was in third grade and she placed in mid level one. We have also had to set aside our light units for a week or two occasionally when we have had to "sit" on a topic.

 

Also, the fact that she is struggling with her facts needs addressing as I think by CLE level 4 they are really expected to know at least their addition and subtraction facts very solidly.

 

Anyway, just hoping this keeps the conversation going for you. I have spent many hours worrying about my dc's math curriculum :(

 

Edited to add: I have also heard some Moms cross out questions prior to assigning a lesson if they know their dc can do them. Could that also work for you?

 

She has addition and subtractions facts down. I mean that there's a few upper multiplication facts she doesn't know and she's still doing stuff like "14+14 is 28 so 4X7=28" Maybe breaking it up would help.

 

I started math in August, but just a bit here and there.

Edited September 7, 2012 by mumkins

[mumkins]

IMO, it's too early to jump ship on CLE just yet.

 

Does she have math tables she can use when she's not sure of the answer? Maybe having to rely on her memory for the math facts is stressing her?

 

My "4th" grade DD is finishing grade 2 math right now. I saw a dramatic improvement when I carried Andrew Pudewa's writing advice into our math lessons. He said, "You can never help a child too much. When they know how to do it, they won't let you help anymore." I was skeptical, but I tried it with older DD's math lessons and he was 100% right.

 

I went as far as taking the pencil and working our the first few problems with the understanding that she watches and listens. I talked my way through them, "and I know 12 is really 10 and 2, so I'll put the 2 in the ones column and stick the 1 - which is really ten - in the tens column... " etc.) Every.single.lesson she's eventually grabbed the pencil from me and finished the lesson. She is learning a ton and feeling more positive about math. FWIW.

 

Good luck to you and your DD. :grouphug:

 

That's a really good idea. I think I'll try that.

[mumkins]

If you want to go back to MUS, you can print extra worksheets out from their site.

 

I flip flopped our first few years of school. My son would always hit major brick walls in math. It took me awhile before I decided that for us there wasn't one curriculum out there that worked for him. I just had to slow down and not push him through the book to get done. I chose math u see because I thought it had more common sense than other programs. But, we still hit those brick walls. We just either stop on that concept for awhile and do review, or slowly go through the program each day. I try to take things like a turtle, even though I want to be through those books like a rabbit!

 

I pulled out my MUS Gamma for her yesterday. We're going to go over it again.

[mumkins]

My math hater liked Aleks. You can try it online for free. I wouldn't use it from here on out, but its nice to get them over that hump of hating it. She really liked seeing the pie graph filled in of concepts mastered.

 

Tried that once too, lol. But maybe it would be fun to do again.