gevs4him Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 have trouble with basic addition/subtraction math facts, but do well with more difficult math, multiplication, division, geometry, algebra type problems, fractions etc. ? I just don't get it and am at a loss. If so what did you do to solve this problem? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinsfamily Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 have trouble with basic addition/subtraction math facts, but do well with more difficult math, multiplication, division, geometry, algebra type problems, fractions etc. ? I just don't get it and am at a loss. If so what did you do to solve this problem? Thank you Yep, but my ds was very young and moving through math concepts like gangbusters. I added a second math curriculum (Horizons) to slow him down and give him more practice automating those facts. We never did any drill. It didn't take him long at all to get up to speed. We also added Miquon and Primary Challenge Math which allowed him to explore higher level concepts without needing his facts down cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneTL Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Both of my kids had trouble with basic facts. I used Memory Joggers for multiplication, played some "make 10, make 100" games for addition, and moved on to the math they could handle. Drill and kill before moving on just about killed us all. I gave them plenty of additional time to figure out the "facts" portion of more difficult problems, I even let them look them up if necessary. It didn't take long working with long division, fractions, etc. before the facts became solid. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevs4him Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 Thank you ladies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momsuz123 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I am sort of having this issue with my 8 y/o. Interested in hearing what others have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) Yep, but my ds was very young and moving through math concepts like gangbusters. I added a second math curriculum (Horizons) to slow him down and give him more practice automating those facts. We never did any drill. It didn't take him long at all to get up to speed. We also added Miquon and Primary Challenge Math which allowed him to explore higher level concepts without needing his facts down cold. :iagree: We use these in addition to MEP and LOF. Horizons is expensive new, but you can find it used. There is so much spiral review in it, it won't matter if several of the pages are completed. Edited September 6, 2012 by besroma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennynd Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 All the other operation have add/sub build in it especially go into long division, multi digit multiplication.. So I never force it. If it irritate them enough that they have to count fingers every time, they will make effort to memorized it :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLDebbie Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 There's hope. I was like this as a kid and went on to get a BS and MS in math. Even now, I still have to think about some basic facts (especially those pesky 6, 7, and 8s in multiplication). My son is like it now and we do some drill each day. Primarily we use xtramath.org. We also have Times Tales for multiplication facts which is a big help. We also play lots of board games where he adds amounts on two dice to determine how far to move. He's getting better, but I' not sure if he'll ever be able to just spit out all his math facts. It's OK with me. Calculators and computers can do the easy stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinsfamily Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 :iagree: We use these in addition to MEP and LOF. Horizons is expensive new, but you can find it used. There is so much spiral review in it, it won't matter if several of the pages are completed. I just buy the workbooks so it isn't expensive. I don't need the instruction, just the problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Jo Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 My eldest does that. I'm adding in Practical Arithmetic for more drill, plus I'm adding skip counting back to our oral drill/memory work. I'll let you know in 6 mos how it worked. :) ETA: We use MEP as our main program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Similarly, both my kids will sometimes do calculations for things in their heads really quickly and intuitively, sometimes with somewhat big numbers. But other times, I'll be like, "What's 8+5?" and they'll stare at me like I'm from another planet for a minute then have to count it on their fingers. So... yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFM Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Similarly, both my kids will sometimes do calculations for things in their heads really quickly and intuitively, sometimes with somewhat big numbers. But other times, I'll be like, "What's 8+5?" and they'll stare at me like I'm from another planet for a minute then have to count it on their fingers. So... yeah. :iagree:My ds8 does this often as well. I used to get a tad frustrated but then I realized maybe he is over thinking it or maybe is brain is literally burned out for the next 20 minutes or so, happens to me, why wouldn't it happen to him. We just got Flashmaster off of ebay and he LOVES it. He doesn't have hand held video game systems and it's funny because he uses this as his "gaming" system and he is really proud of himself when he scores a 100% on something. I love it as well because he can use it completely independently. It has addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. He works on all of the levels and they have lots of different settings as well. We also use Xtramath sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallory Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I've recently discovered this whole right brained/left brained idea and my kid who can do great fraction and other problems in his head still counts or skip counts for math facts is so right brained it is amazing to me when I read about it. I don't really have any answers, but he has been doing Xtramath. He is so fast at counting, it isn't usually a problem (he is 11yo) but if someone has a magic cure for spelling for this kid, I'd be so happy ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmama2 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Ooh, yes! Similarly, both my kids will sometimes do calculations for things in their heads really quickly and intuitively, sometimes with somewhat big numbers. But other times, I'll be like, "What's 8+5?" and they'll stare at me like I'm from another planet for a minute then have to count it on their fingers. So... yeah. and lol, I'm glad it's not just mine :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I remember reading about a physicist who loved calculus but had to pull out a calculator for basic arithmetic. Arithmetic is foundational to math but also removed from much of math if that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFM Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I've recently discovered this whole right brained/left brained idea and my kid who can do great fraction and other problems in his head still counts or skip counts for math facts is so right brained it is amazing to me when I read about it. I don't really have any answers, but he has been doing Xtramath. He is so fast at counting, it isn't usually a problem (he is 11yo) but if someone has a magic cure for spelling for this kid, I'd be so happy ;) :iagree: I seriously feel like you just described my ds8. Aw, it's nice to know I am not alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelmama1209 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 these all describe visual spatial learners! http://dancing-with-dragons.blogspot.com/2012/07/teaching-visual-spatial-learner-when.html http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/Visual_Spatial_Learner/vsl.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFM Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Thank you for these. I am learning more and more about how awesome my son is everyday and how I can best help him learn and these feel like I am reading about him. Thanks for the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevs4him Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 Similarly, both my kids will sometimes do calculations for things in their heads really quickly and intuitively, sometimes with somewhat big numbers. But other times, I'll be like, "What's 8+5?" and they'll stare at me like I'm from another planet for a minute then have to count it on their fingers. So... yeah. This is what DS does we use Math Mammoth for our main math program and it has seemed to help. We do LOF oral, today he added 2 and 3 digit numbers in his head :glare: Also, after we finish our MM. for 1/2 hr. we do a daily math basket ~ 1- games, 2-hands-on,3-Logic, 4-fractions, 5-money,lego,vocabulary. So should I just take a :chillpill: pill and see what the next 6 months bring :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevs4him Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 these all describe visual spatial learners! http://dancing-with-dragons.blogspot.com/2012/07/teaching-visual-spatial-learner-when.html http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/Visual_Spatial_Learner/vsl.htm Going to check these out! Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Are you sure they really don't know them? I would have described my DD this way-she seemed to be able to do simple operations in context with no trouble, but not in isolation. Then she did a time-dependent math competition, and answered over 800 simple operations questions in 50 minutes, up to multiple digits with regrouping. She knew them-she just didn't want to do the worksheets, so she stalled on them and played dumb! Grrrrr..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 another article on the VSL angle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Dealing with it this week. Sometimes I think it's related to the weather or the angle of the sun or something.:tongue_smilie: I also do some drill with MEP, but really, for my one child who struggles with basic facts (addition and subtraction) I don't think having him memorize them is going to do much more than speed up his computations. He'll still be having to "see" the number line in his head. My main mistake this year? Taking down the big number line that was ratty from so much use and not putting a new one up. Guess who is going to be making a new, bigger one this weekend? I also went ahead and drew out some colorful posters of basic facts (similar to those in Rod and Staff-Bees and Blossoms) and posted them everywhere. I'm hoping that having them there, so bright and colorful will help to cement things in his mind. We'll see. We use MEP and I supplement with daily work on computation, time, money etc. I use Rod and Staff for the drill because I get tired of copying, but I've also used MM for extra problems. Bottom line, I don't think that drill is exactly the way to solve the issue with kids who seem to think in a very visual way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevs4him Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 Are you sure they really don't know them? I would have described my DD this way-she seemed to be able to do simple operations in context with no trouble, but not in isolation. Then she did a time-dependent math competition, and answered over 800 simple operations questions in 50 minutes, up to multiple digits with regrouping. She knew them-she just didn't want to do the worksheets, so she stalled on them and played dumb! Grrrrr..... Good point - this is something I never thought of. He does not like to write. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Yes. My child has a processing disorder that makes it difficult for him to pull things out of long term memory (such as basic math facts). But his conceptual understanding is great. We stopped drilling multiplication and division this year and are working through a pre-algebra text and he is able to handle the material much better than he did last year's work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I have not read all the posts, but my ds was working independently on AoPS Intro Algebra while concurrently learning his subtraction tables. Problem solving is a very different skill than rote memory, so I let them progress separately. Ruth in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagira Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 these all describe visual spatial learners! http://dancing-with-dragons.blogspot.com/2012/07/teaching-visual-spatial-learner-when.html http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/Visual_Spatial_Learner/vsl.htm Awesome, thanks! This sounds very much like my ds too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 This definitely is the case (and always has been) with my DS9. I was working with DD on math facts the other day, doing drillwork, when DS9 passed by and remarked, "Mom, don't you think memorizing math facts is cheating? I mean, if you already know the answers because you memorized them, you're not really solving the problems." :001_huh::glare::lol: Well, that statement is a real window into his soul, let me tell you. :tongue_smilie: Math problems must be a puzzle to him, and when DS9 opens a new puzzle box, he breaks apart any pieces that might have come from the factory still stuck together. :lol: (To any of you who might feel the need to explain the flaws in his logic, please rest assured that every possible argument has been playing like a broken record here for years! :glare:) Now those of you who have listened to me whine for years about my challenges teaching DS9 math can understand a little more why I'm :willy_nilly: with him all the time. The funny thing is that he does know his math facts but refuses to use them. :confused: Instead, he chooses to wow me with the myriad ways he can quickly puzzle his way through to the correct answer instead of just spitting it out. (Well, you know, Mom, 8 tens is 16 fives and blah blah blah blah blah...) I really don't know what to make of this, whether to be proud or continue to let it drive me completely mentally insane. So far, insanity is in the lead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCoffeeChick Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I was like this. I could NOT memorize basic facts. In fact, I always had to tap my pencil on the numbers and count them up. You know like 9 + 3, tap the 3 arms of the number 3 as you count starting from 9. I don't know who showed me that or if I came up with it myself, but man, I hated it. I could do this fast though, and always had good grades. Fast forward to when I am headed to Jr. High. My 6th grade teacher knows I don't have my facts memorized and places me into a lower level math for 7th grade. I spent about 1 week there, and they bumped me up to the highest level they offered for 7th grade. Why? Because I totally GET algebra and upper level math. I LOVE math -- I like to do algebra for fun, not joking. I took math classes in college, not because they were required for my major, but because they were fun. You know when I finally memorized all the math facts? When I first started teaching them to ds. Something just clicked in my head, and now I can rattle it all off without a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I just buy the workbooks so it isn't expensive. I don't need the instruction, just the problems. I don't purchase the TM either. You won't need it, especially for the early grades, and possibly for most grades if using HM as a supplement to your spine. I hesitate sometimes about recommending Horizons as a supplement because, to many, $17 for a math workbook that is a supplement is expensive, especially when buying for multiple children. But, it works for us and the kids really like the layout. I do like findng them used when I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Yes, my DS is one for whom "easy is hard, and hard is easy". I do math at multiple levels for this reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristinannie Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 My son is like this. I love Right Start because it moves quickly. He is already doing 4 digit addition. We use Miquon as well. We review basic math facts using Right Start math games. I suggest moving on and using math games. They are so fun. The kids don't get bored and they still learn the math facts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 have trouble with basic addition/subtraction math facts, but do well with more difficult math, multiplication, division, geometry, algebra type problems, fractions etc. ? I just don't get it and am at a loss. If so what did you do to solve this problem? Thank you Only every single day of his life. There isn't really a great solution other than to drill math facts separately, teach him to draw out calculation problems, and move on into harder concepts while letting him calculate with a chart or number line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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