SSNs and birth certificates

[cindergretta]

Dd16 will be having surgery in a few months. When I was doing a pre-registration at the hospital, they wanted her social security number. Why? When did SSNs become the go to for all identity everything??? I don't like it. I thought they were meant for employment purposes only. I hate that you have to give everyone and his brother your SSN nowadays for every little thing. And it is even scarier when they want them for unemployed minors. How long would it take for me to find out/figure out that someone has stolen their number and is using it for nefarious purposes?

 

I took dd16 to the Post Office today to apply for her passport. She has a state issued ID. We brought her birth certificate (certified copy with the raised seal) with us. They took her actual birth certificate and stapled it to the application to mail in! :001_huh: I thought they would photo-copy it. I am *not* happy that her actual birth certificate is being sent to the gov't and we are supposed to trust they are going to just send it back. :glare: (Not to mention undamaged, given the staple through it.) And what if she needs it during the next 2 months until we get it back? Since I had no idea they were going to take it, I don't have a back up. (And I am not too thrilled to have to go and get one, either. It is a huge time suck and it costs money, which is extremely tight.) Gah!

 

Sorry, just venting tonight. :rant: Clearly I am frustrated with a few things... :tongue_smilie:

[swellmomma]

Here in Canada the original birth certificate goes with passport applications. They send it back with the passport. THough there was no staple in ours. Why would a passport application take 2 months? I got the ones for my kids in about 10 days from the day I mailed it away.

[cindergretta]

Yes, they demand the original BC for a passport. They never stapled ours, however. I was VERY nervous as mine can't be replaced from London. It did get back though, safe and sound, in just 2 weeks!

 

Phew! I hope it only takes two weeks. She said it would be mailed separately from the passport. It just felt bizarre to me. Dh didn't have to submit his actual birth certificate in '98 when he got his passport. I think it must be a post-9/11 thing. I just wasn't prepared for it and it threw me, kwim?

[idnib]

You should get it back fine. It is a post-9/11 thing. As a Muslim I've seen my share of ineffective security measures and post-9/11 "security theater" but I think it's a good idea for them to get the original. Anyone can photoshop anything these days...

[cindergretta]

You should get it back fine. It is a post-9/11 thing. As a Muslim I've seen my share of ineffective security measures and post-9/11 "security theater" but I think it's a good idea for them to get the original. Anyone can photoshop anything these days...

 

True, but there is an actual human accepting the documents, including the original birth certificate. And they are signing off on the paperwork. So that human would have to create the photoshopped certificate, kwim?

 

(I'm not opposed to applying with the original; I am opposed to having them mail it off while I sit around and just trust they will mail it back. It isn't like nothing ever gets lost in the giant entity of the gov't.... :tongue_smilie: )

[idnib]

True, but there is an actual human accepting the documents, including the original birth certificate. And they are signing off on the paperwork. So that human would have to create the photoshopped certificate, kwim?

 

Yes, I see. I didn't put two and two together about the in-person thing.

 

Well, my parents are foreign-born and travel a lot (in Turkey right now!) and I've traveled a ton, had a lot of foreign-born friends who go home a lot, etc. and I've never heard of it taking more than 3 weeks and everyone seems to get their certificate back.

 

I also really dislike how SSNs have come to be used. I understand it's a matter of convenience for everyone to identify everyone by a unique number, but it feels like a national ID card instead of a security net. I never fill it in on forms and only get called on it maybe 10% of the time.

[cindergretta]

Three weeks? Two weeks? This makes me a feel a LOT better. It seems like IRL everyone is telling me how it takes like 2 months... But how many of them are speaking from actual experience and how many of them just want to appear knowledgeable while causing stress??? :confused: :glare:

 

I'm glad I am not alone in feeling twitchy about the over- and mis- use of SSNs. :D

[QuirkyKidAcademy]

I applied for my first passport in Feb 2001 and had to include an original birth certificate. It came back fine, but I ordered a backup copy of both mine and DH's at that time so that we'd never be without one if a similar situation arose.

 

I made an appointment with a new doctor last week. The lady on the phone wanted my SSN because "that's how we file patients' records." Not mine, you won't. Use my insurance number. "No, that's not how we do it." Okay, then you'll have to put my records in the PITA file because I'm not giving you my SSN. I imagine when I go to the actual appt next week, I'll be given more grief about it, but it's something DH and I feel strongly about.

[annandatje]

I applied for a passport in the 1990s and had to send in birth certificate.

[cindergretta]

I applied for a passport in the 1990s and had to send in birth certificate.

 

Wow, interesting. We never did. (I grew up military. When I got married, my parents gave me my old passports, IDs, and the document they used as a birth certificate for me. It wasn't an actual birth certificate. It was a 5x7 sized paper from the hospital saying I was born with a shot record on the back! :lol: The one my dad had was a postcard from the hospital where he was born saying he was born there!! He didn't need his actual birth certificate until 2007 when he needed a new passport. And these were the "documents" we used for passports, military IDs, driver's licenses, etc. Now I must admit, that seems loosey-goosey just as much as sending dd's actual birth certificate seemed hinky, lol! I am just about 40 and have never had an actual birth certificate. I wanted to get one a few years ago but it turned into such a Hollywood production, I dropped it. Now I am thinking I better try to get a couple of them. Dh's should be a REAL challenge to obtain, given he was born in Okinawa. :001_huh: He is Okinawan, by the way.)

[Barb_]

They ask for a ss# because if they need to collect on an account, the more information they have, the easier it is. I always just leave it blank and I've never been specifically asked for it after the fact.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I always just leave it blank and I've never been specifically asked for it after the fact.

 

:iagree: Me too.

[Barb_]

I made an appointment with a new doctor last week. The lady on the phone wanted my SSN because "that's how we file patients' records." Not mine, you won't. Use my insurance number. "No, that's not how we do it." Okay, then you'll have to put my records in the PITA file because I'm not giving you my SSN.

 

:iagree: Back about 17 years ago, my husband received notice that his wages would be garnished to pay back child support. I was all :scared: until we'd worked it out that his identity had been stolen. Which wasn't terrific, but better than finding out my husband is a deadbeat.

 

If I'm asked for the number in person, I mention that my husband had been a victim of identity theft, and that I don't like our numbers floating around because I'm twitchy about protecting my family. Aside from colleges or anything having to do with banking or employment, I don't think I've ever given them out to anyone.

[----]

.

[Giraffe]

I travel a lot too and have never had a problem getting my birth certificates/documentation back from the government when applying for passports. And it usually takes 2-3 weeks, not months. The time estimate they give is worst case scenario. Don't be surprised when it comes separately, and possibly after, your passport.

 

I had to surrender my passport here in Turkey for a residency permit and let me tell you, THAT was nerve wracking! It came back, safe and sound. I do think governments are very careful about these types of things.

[Just Kate]

Not too long ago, I made ds an appointment with a local optomitrist and on the phone they asked for his SSN. I do not give out my kids' SSNs and I told them that and we just moved on. Fast forward to the appointment (which my ds really needed - he wears glasses and we were way over due for him to be checked out) and they wouldn't see him until I agreed to give his SSN. I was furious! But they are through a local medical group and that is the only way this group does business. I seriously considered refusing and leaving, but this was the only local eye doctor on our insurance and it was going to be a big PITA to go elsewhere. I am still kind of frustrated with this. :glare:

 

(Now I do get that they ask for a SSN for insurance purpose. But the insurance is through my dh, not ds. They needed it to fill out a little box on the computer. If the box wasn't completed, there was no way to process my son's account.)

[ktgrok]

Wow, interesting. We never did. (I grew up military. When I got married, my parents gave me my old passports, IDs, and the document they used as a birth certificate for me. It wasn't an actual birth certificate. It was a 5x7 sized paper from the hospital saying I was born with a shot record on the back! :lol: The one my dad had was a postcard from the hospital where he was born saying he was born there!! He didn't need his actual birth certificate until 2007 when he needed a new passport. And these were the "documents" we used for passports, military IDs, driver's licenses, etc. Now I must admit, that seems loosey-goosey just as much as sending dd's actual birth certificate seemed hinky, lol! I am just about 40 and have never had an actual birth certificate. I wanted to get one a few years ago but it turned into such a Hollywood production, I dropped it. Now I am thinking I better try to get a couple of them. Dh's should be a REAL challenge to obtain, given he was born in Okinawa. :001_huh: He is Okinawan, by the way.)

 

this kind of hassel, btw, is exactly why voter ID laws are such a bad idea. Those without money or means of transporation, the elderly, etc would have a VERY hard time obtaining birth certificates, which are needed to get the state ID card they would need in order to vote.

[lynn]

Taking the birth certificate at the passport office is the norm. You get it back. Unless you want to go to the passport office personally and stand in line for hours, so I heard, you have to have it sent with your application.

 

As far as SS number I never, ever give this out. Just tell whoever is asking for it you do not give it out. Everyone has been okay with it. Except for the place we were trying to purchase a camper from. The sales person lost our deal because he would not let us purchase a camper without taking our SS number. We never understodd that one. We were not financing.

[lynn]

this kind of hassel, btw, is exactly why voter ID laws are such a bad idea. Those without money or means of transporation, the elderly, etc would have a VERY hard time obtaining birth certificates, which are needed to get the state ID card they would need in order to vote.

 

I just had to send a letter to the townhall of the town I was born in stating my namem parents name, hospital I was born at and dob and $5 and in about a week I got a certified stamped birth certificate. This was just 2 years ago. Speaking to the right person is the key to getting proper information and getting what you need in a timely manner.

[justasque]

I get nervous about passport apps too. We are in the midst of a new round of this. When you renew, you just have to send in the old passport, so it's stressful but not quite as much. They do come much quicker than the CYA passport agency's prediction of 2 months. And I've always had the various parts (passport, old passport, passport card if you're getting one) come on different days.

[TechWife]

(Now I do get that they ask for a SSN for insurance purpose. But the insurance is through my dh, not ds. They needed it to fill out a little box on the computer. If the box wasn't completed, there was no way to process my son's account.)

 

They actually don't need the SSN for insurance purposes and it is against the law for them to compel you to give it to them. The only reason they want it is so that they can track you down easier if you don't pay your bill. It also helps them if they put something on a credit report. This is the same reason that they ask for your driver's license number. When I first worked in the medical reimbursement field we had a SSN field in our billing system. We filled in every single patient with 555-55-5555. When they upgraded the system that field was no longer there.

[Hen]

I never give out ssn#s at Dr. offices. I leave it blank. When they ask for my kids' numbers, I just play dumb blond and say I don't know their #'s...they just want the paperwork filled out, so they move on. As far as mine, I usually just leave it blank, but the few times it has been a problem, I point out that they only want it for billing, and that with my name and Driver's license number they have all that they need to track me down.

 

It bugs me that SSN are used this way, but everyone continues to do it

:glare:

[ktgrok]

I just had to send a letter to the townhall of the town I was born in stating my namem parents name, hospital I was born at and dob and $5 and in about a week I got a certified stamped birth certificate. This was just 2 years ago. Speaking to the right person is the key to getting proper information and getting what you need in a timely manner.

 

it varies hugely from place to place. Trust me...it is a huge hassle where I live. You have to bring certain info, stand in line forever, fill out paperwork, stand in line again, etc etc. Plan on taking at least 1 1/2 hours, and they are only open during business hours, and only a few days a week. So most people would have to take off work to do it. It was also more expensive than that...I don't remember exactly how much. And it was a 30 minute drive to get there.

[Mrs Mungo]

Wow, interesting. We never did. (I grew up military. When I got married, my parents gave me my old passports, IDs, and the document they used as a birth certificate for me. It wasn't an actual birth certificate. It was a 5x7 sized paper from the hospital saying I was born with a shot record on the back! :lol: The one my dad had was a postcard from the hospital where he was born saying he was born there!! He didn't need his actual birth certificate until 2007 when he needed a new passport. And these were the "documents" we used for passports, military IDs, driver's licenses, etc. Now I must admit, that seems loosey-goosey just as much as sending dd's actual birth certificate seemed hinky, lol! I am just about 40 and have never had an actual birth certificate. I wanted to get one a few years ago but it turned into such a Hollywood production, I dropped it. Now I am thinking I better try to get a couple of them. Dh's should be a REAL challenge to obtain, given he was born in Okinawa. :001_huh: He is Okinawan, by the way.)

 

Your dad provided the military/government with BCs when you received your initial passport. We had to do that with our kids (well, kid, lol) back when we moved to Germany in 1997. If you've already had a passport, then the process is totally different than people getting one for the first time.

 

Two of our kids were born in Germany. We have about 5 official copies of everybody's birth certificates, certificates of birth abroad, our marriage certificate and everything "officially" translated into German and/or from German to English. Whew!

[Laura Corin]

:iagree: Back about 17 years ago, my husband received notice that his wages would be garnished to pay back child support.

 

I went and tried to pick up husband's new US passport from the consulate in Hong Kong, only to be interviewed about his 'first wife' and 'unsupported children'. They had done a fuzzy search automatically, and parts of his background (name, date of birth, place of birth) matched a dead-beat dad.

 

After they decided that he was probably innocent, it was recommended that he always carry both his passports (UK and US) whenever travelling, as the US one could not have the mistaken identification removed from the record.

 

I tend to think that specific information (SSN, etc.) will reduce these mix-ups. Maybe that's a naive viewpoint.

 

Laura

[missmoe]

It took 10 days for my passport to arrive and 2 weeks to get the birth certificate back.

 

I don't give my SS# out to anyone. I also don't give my children or husbands out. Yesterday, the dentist wanted SS#s of all my children. Ummm, no!

[missmoe]

it varies hugely from place to place. Trust me...it is a huge hassle where I live. You have to bring certain info, stand in line forever, fill out paperwork, stand in line again, etc etc. Plan on taking at least 1 1/2 hours, and they are only open during business hours, and only a few days a week. So most people would have to take off work to do it. It was also more expensive than that...I don't remember exactly how much. And it was a 30 minute drive to get there.

 

I actually paid someone to do just what you did to get my birth certificate. Seeing as I don't live in the state where I was born, going to stand in line was not an option. Neither was waiting 8-10 weeks to get it the online slow way. One would think in this digital age, things would get easier and more efficent.

[redsquirrel]

I was under the impression that it has always been against the law for any entity other than the gov't to use your ss# as an identification. I remember way back when I was in college they wanted to use it for our student ID numbers, fortunately enough students reminded them that they may not.

[TranquilMind]

I applied for my first passport in Feb 2001 and had to include an original birth certificate. It came back fine, but I ordered a backup copy of both mine and DH's at that time so that we'd never be without one if a similar situation arose.

 

I made an appointment with a new doctor last week. The lady on the phone wanted my SSN because "that's how we file patients' records." Not mine, you won't. Use my insurance number. "No, that's not how we do it." Okay, then you'll have to put my records in the PITA file because I'm not giving you my SSN. I imagine when I go to the actual appt next week, I'll be given more grief about it, but it's something DH and I feel strongly about.

 

I've heard that a lot of doctors are refusing to see patients who refuse to give up their SSN, which is absolutely appalling. Unless someone pays me and the IRS requires it, my SSN is not given.

[TranquilMind]

I was under the impression that it has always been against the law for any entity other than the gov't to use your ss# as an identification. I remember way back when I was in college they wanted to use it for our student ID numbers, fortunately enough students reminded them that they may not.

 

No, this is inaccurate. They can "ask" for this information but then refuse to see you or do business with you if you refuse.

 

So...in essence, sometimes you have to give it because you have no alternative, as in emergency surgery.

 

I try to find alternatives.

[TranquilMind]

They ask for a ss# because if they need to collect on an account, the more information they have, the easier it is. I always just leave it blank and I've never been specifically asked for it after the fact.

 

I always leave it blank also.

 

To get around this, the sneaky ones are demanding that you fill out papers online. Because, you know, you can't skip it and move on, online.

 

Jerks.

[TranquilMind]

not too long ago, i made ds an appointment with a local optomitrist and on the phone they asked for his ssn. I do not give out my kids' ssns and i told them that and we just moved on. Fast forward to the appointment (which my ds really needed - he wears glasses and we were way over due for him to be checked out) and they wouldn't see him until i agreed to give his ssn. I was furious! But they are through a local medical group and that is the only way this group does business. I seriously considered refusing and leaving, but this was the only local eye doctor on our insurance and it was going to be a big pita to go elsewhere. I am still kind of frustrated with this. :glare:

 

(now i do get that they ask for a ssn for insurance purpose. But the insurance is through my dh, not ds. They needed it to fill out a little box on the computer. If the box wasn't completed, there was no way to process my son's account.)

 

123-45-6789

 

999-99-9999

[TranquilMind]

Taking the birth certificate at the passport office is the norm. You get it back. Unless you want to go to the passport office personally and stand in line for hours, so I heard, you have to have it sent with your application.

 

As far as SS number I never, ever give this out. Just tell whoever is asking for it you do not give it out. Everyone has been okay with it. Except for the place we were trying to purchase a camper from. The sales person lost our deal because he would not let us purchase a camper without taking our SS number. We never understodd that one. We were not financing.

 

What? That is the craziest thing I ever heard! I'd report that business to the attorney general (unless it is some crazy legal requirement in your state).

[TranquilMind]

They actually don't need the SSN for insurance purposes and it is against the law for them to compel you to give it to them. The only reason they want it is so that they can track you down easier if you don't pay your bill. It also helps them if they put something on a credit report. This is the same reason that they ask for your driver's license number. When I first worked in the medical reimbursement field we had a SSN field in our billing system. We filled in every single patient with 555-55-5555. When they upgraded the system that field was no longer there.

 

 

It is NOT against the law for them to refuse to do business with you if you refuse to cater to their demands, however. Crazy, I know.

[stripe]

I took dd16 to the Post Office today to apply for her passport. She has a state issued ID. We brought her birth certificate (certified copy with the raised seal) with us. They took her actual birth certificate and stapled it to the application to mail in! :001_huh: I thought they would photo-copy it. I am *not* happy that her actual birth certificate is being sent to the gov't and we are supposed to trust they are going to just send it back. :glare: (Not to mention undamaged, given the staple through it.) And what if she needs it during the next 2 months until we get it back?

 

They sent my kids' documents and passport back with the new passport in about two weeks. It was really fast, it did NOT take 2 months, and this was regular service. It was not wrinkled up or anything. It is sent back in a cardboard mailer, not a regular envelope.

 

I was able to get my kids' birth certificate by mailing a form in, from their website. The only additional cost was a self addressed, stamped enevlope.

 

I requested an alternate ID from my hospital, which they did. Now they don't use ssns at all.

[Dobela]

I have multiple 'originals' of our birth certificates. It did cost, but I ordered them thru our health department or whoever that was. All look just alike and have the official stamp/seal. I did the same with our marriage license. Copies are at different places in case I lose one to fire or something along those lines.

 

As far as the SSN#, with the right google search, you can find anyone's SS#. I don't carry anyone elses with me so I never put it on forms. But then I have also never been denied care because of it.

[justamouse]

I TOTALLY agree it's gotten WAY out of control.

[DianeW88]

You always have to send in your original birth certificate with a passport application. My dd got hers back several weeks after she was sent her passport. Maybe six weeks total? I'm not sure. She applied for hers last December. It's no biggie.

[stripe]

I think you have to send it in the first time. Or maybe once the applicant is an adult. I no longer need to send mine in, for renewals. Also immigrants don't need to send it in. They send in their naturalization certificate. It is returned unfolded, by the way, in a bigger envelope.