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Can I get thorough comparisons of History Odyssey, Human Odyssey, and SOTW?


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I have a son(newly 12 years old and would be in 7th gr.) who is an only child. He reads at a 12th grade level. His history has not followed STOW or WTM and so I wanted to prep him in 7th and 8th to do a 4 year series in 9th through 12th.

 

I originally thought we would do STOW 1 & 2 this year with History Odyssey Level 2 Ancients and Middle Ages, and also combining in my own Jewish history possibly using Sand and Stars: The Jewish Journey Through Time by Yaffa Ganz and The Atlas of Great Jewish Communities: A Voyage Through History by Sondra Leiman along with Jewish literature for the time periods, and CHOLL Ancients and Middle Ages Logic Stage.

 

But, I have now read many posts about Human Odyssey. I am not getting what people are so happy about regarding this curriculum. Am I wrong, but isn't it a public school curriculum? I get that it is secular. What is the attraction/advantage(s)? What are the disadvantages? Does it cover World history or only Western history?

 

I am not trying to start conflict, just really want to know so I can make a thought-out decision.

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well, I have used all three, SOTW, History Odyssey, and Human Odyssey, so I can try.

 

I used the SOTW books 1-4 with my kids in elementary school, so I don't have much input using them with an older child. My second grader is using SOTW 2 this year. It organizes history in a chronological fashion. That means that you move from region to region as you move through the book. I think others can give you better input about using SOTW with an older child, if that is what you want.

 

I used History Odyssey level 2, Medieval, last year. Well, to be honest we only used it for a few weeks. It didn't work that well for us. There were so many times that I ended up changing it or making a different assignment that I just stopped using it after a while. I want to be clear that I think it is a fine program, just not the right one for us. They offer a good sized sample so you can 'try before you buy' and I wish I had done that.

 

History Odyssey is organized in a geographical fashion so it doesn't match up with SOTW. It can be difficult to coordinate different programs if they are not organized in the same manner. You need to decide how you want to organize your approach (chronological or geographical) and then you will have to make everything else work around that. There are endless debates about which on is 'better' but I think that is a waste of time. The one that is best is what works for you and your student.

 

History Odyssey is not a text book. It is a lesson plan. It has reading assignments, writing assignments and other activities. History Odyssey uses Story of Mankind by VanLoon as its text. It uses a couple others every year, but Story of Mankind is used for all four years at the organizing text in the middle years (grades 5-8).

 

Human Odyssey, and I am assuming you mean the Klee book and not the Spielvogel book by the same name, is a book put out by the K12 virtual school. It isn't a public school, but must meet public school specifications. That is where the secular comes in. There are three books and they cover world history, with a western focus, at an appropriate reading level for middle schoolers. I think that is part of the attraction. I am not certain why it being a public school text would be a point for or against it. It doesn't make me happy or unhappy that it is a school text. I use several school texts and other things created for a homeschooling situation.

 

For many people SOTW, especially volumes 1-3 are written at too young a level for our middle grades kids. Volume 4 is a different story. History Odyssey uses Story of Mankind by Van Loon as its world history text. I wasn't impressed with Story of Mankind. I prefer Human Odyssey as a text. We follow the plan for logic stage history from TWTM. That means I expect my student to outline, write narrations etc. Human Odyssey lends it self very well to such things. For 5th and 6th grade I also used the two Oxford series: The History of the Ancient World and The Medieval and Early Modern World. Now, we are in year three of the four year history cycle and in addition to our Human Odyssey book we are using Hakim's History of US to good effect.

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We have only used Human Odyssey and are on our third year. However, before deciding on the texts I read SOTW volumes 1 and 2 and studied the online samples of History Odyssey.

 

First some background----dd's fifth grade year was her first at home. We decided to homeschool in February for the following fall so I had a lot of time to read and prepare. Dd was given input in her class and book selection. She wanted to study real history, not the watered-down history she got as part of social studies class. I envisioned two years of world history and two years of American history before high school-----two for American because we live within driving distance of major historical sites for the early American period.

 

I read the two SOTW books first and knew immediately that dd would not like them. The reading level was way too easy!

 

I did not like the History Odyssey. I am not a fan of color this, label this, and so on. Basically I'd be a really cruddy notebooker :lol: I didn't want to project my personal preferences on dd so I had her read through a good section of History Odyssey. She didn't think much of it either.

 

Somewhere, maybe here?, someone had scanned a two page spread from Human Odyssey. We liked it well enough that I bought a used copy on amazon, figuring I could resell it if we chose something else. I was getting to the point that we'd switch to American history if I couldn't settle on something for world!

 

As I have two older kids I have read through many history textbooks. Human Odyssey was the first I've seen that is written clearly with no unnecessary sidebars---the only sidebars give more in-depth information about something in the text. Drawings and photographs add to the text instead of distracting from it. The maps are informative. There are no review questions after sections or at the end of chapters. I find that those kinds of questions limit the discussions to only the information queried.

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The things you're comparing are pretty different.

 

First, I love SOTW, but I wouldn't use it with a strong 7th grade student. Yes, the content is good, but it really is written for *young* students. I think it (the first volume) is perfect for 1st or 2nd grade and useable for 3rd or 4th. For 7th grade, I'd want something more challenging.

 

History Odyssey (level 2) gives students lots of small chunks of work. They read Kingfisher (by logic stage, my kids had both read a *lot* of Kingfisher, so they were ready for something *else*) and Story of Mankind (Van Loon) for most daily work. They're told what to outline, what to summarize, what 1-2 sentence biographies to write (sometimes up to 12 in a day), what to write in their timeline, etc. ... I found it was So Many tiny assignments that there wasn't much recall or depth. I tend to think it's better to work on a 2-3p. biography of one person than to write out dozens of 1-sentence bios of historical characters that won't ever show up in another lesson. (I also hated the way they handled Shakespeare.)

 

Trying to do two levels of History Odyssey would take a lot of work on your part as you cross out assignment after assignment just to get the busywork down to a manageable level for a single year.

 

And the reading level is unlikely to be challenging for your child either.

 

I'm using Human Odyssey with my younger child this year. It's the first time I've used it, and so far I like it a lot. It's written for use in 7th grade, so it won't be super challenging, but it won't be well below his level either. It's a textbook, but I find it more narrative in approach than many others.

 

If I were you, I would consider doing Human Odyssey (the K12 one, not Spielvogel) as your "spine". Do two chapters a week (I think that should get you through all three volumes in two years). Bring in History: the Definitive Visual Guide for any time that you need an encyclopedia-type history (for outlining, summarizing, etc) -- probably a couple of times a week. Keep a timeline (I like having logic stage students use their own hardback book that they can use for the whole cycle and have as a keepsake afterward). Add in literature to match the time periods, and you're good to go.

 

I like SOTW for elementary. I would only use it for logic stage and higher when there were special concerns. I think that History Odyssey is good for seeing how WTM instructions for logic stage might play out in day-to-day practice, but ultimately, I prefer applying those instructions myself. I think Human Odyssey is a great history spine for logic stage the way STOW is for elementary. Just try to use it in WTM-described ways.

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I agree with all the PPs. SOTW1 was boring (too young) for my 3rd grader last year. She ended up spending her reading time listening to me read K12 Human Odyssey out loud to her brother (he's a "high interest" dyslexic). As for History Odyssey, way to many things to do each day. We are not big on outlining here. Also I don't think an Encyclopedia should be a main source of info. Not enough depth. You might also like Oxfords World in Ancient Times series (buy used they are $$ new). We use Connect the Thoughts Upper Level History as a guide. I have to tweak it a lot to fit what I need but my sister uses it just fine as is.

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SOTW is for lower elementary school aged kids. Sometimes people use it for middle schoolers as well, but it really is younger than that. It has associated activity and test books that you can use for project ideas and assignments (as well as lists of supplemental reading ideas).

 

K12's Human Odyssey series was written for grades 7-9 but lots of folks use it starting in 5th grade (and it works well for that). It is a truly excellent series for the middle grades. It is interesting, readable, and coherent and it focuses on themes and ideas through history. It doesn't have end of chapter questions, but if you want these things, as well as mapwork and daily lessons, you can sign up for the K12 online classes.

 

History Odyssey has three levels (I believe)--elementary, middle, and high school. It is a curriculum plan, meaning that it tells you what to read, what to put on the timeline, what to put on the map, what questions to answer, etc. I have not used it, but I do know a person who raves about it.

 

I am partial to The Human Odyssey for the middle grades.

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If I were you, I would consider doing Human Odyssey (the K12 one, not Spielvogel) as your "spine". Do two chapters a week (I think that should get you through all three volumes in two years). Bring in History: the Definitive Visual Guide for any time that you need an encyclopedia-type history (for outlining, summarizing, etc) -- probably a couple of times a week. Keep a timeline (I like having logic stage students use their own hardback book that they can use for the whole cycle and have as a keepsake afterward). Add in literature to match the time periods, and you're good to go.

 

Thank you so much for the link to History: the Definitive Visual Guide. I checked it out and bought it. Looks like a wonderful resource.

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  • 3 weeks later...

When DS began 7th grade this year, we started with HO Level 2 Ancients. This is our 1st year approaching classical ed and using WTM methods for history. I wanted to introduce DS to outlining, mapping, and study skills gently, using lesson plans that directed me. I happened to pick up several Oxford University Ancients books and the k12 Human Odyssey book too. I saw the K12 and Oxford texts as nice secondary source materials. Heck, I even fancied combining the three, but that has not happened due to the way each publisher presents the information.

 

HO lev 2 Ancients feels choppy and disjointed. I find myself regularly asking the question, where exactly is the publisher headed? Multiple instructions are written in 1-2 paragraphs and are sometimes difficult to follow. I often forgo the lesson plans, and we end up doing our own thing, a la WTM and reading the k12 and Oxford books. I purchased HO lev 2 when it was on sale and would be peeved if I'd paid full price for it. In spite of these issues, we continue onward with HO lev 2 Ancients.

 

abbeyej's recommendations are sound. K12 is a beautifully written book that coincides well with the Oxford texts. DS uses Easy Timeline Creator on the computer as opposed to keeping a hand written timeline, and we print it using legal sized paper.

Edited by Heathermomster
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:iagree:Just want to chime in here. I couldn't wait to use History Odyssey Level 2 Ancients with my 5th grader. I am liking it less and less. It seems choppy and not deep. The first Egypt lesson has them writing one sentence about several pharaohs. My son is a reluctant writer but that just seems pointless. And there is not even any text listed in this assignment for them to find this material. I am driving myself crazy looking for short bits of info on this list of people for him to read and write his one sentence.

 

Sorry to hijack but I just wanted to provide my frustrations with History Odyssey.

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:iagree:Just want to chime in here. I couldn't wait to use History Odyssey Level 2 Ancients with my 5th grader. I am liking it less and less. It seems choppy and not deep. The first Egypt lesson has them writing one sentence about several pharaohs. My son is a reluctant writer but that just seems pointless. And there is not even any text listed in this assignment for them to find this material. I am driving myself crazy looking for short bits of info on this list of people for him to read and write his one sentence.

 

Sorry to hijack but I just wanted to provide my frustrations with History Odyssey.

 

My guess is that it is supposed to be an encyclopedia.

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The information for the summaries in History Odyssey comes from the information the student read in the assignment, or if not that day, than in the prior day's assignment.

 

One should note that the writing in History Odyssey is designed to build as it goes; it starts with shorter, easier assignments, and builds sequentially throughout the program. By the end of Ancients 2, the assignments are longer and more thorough ( and the student will have written 4 more thoroughly researched papers). It slowly teaches outlining skills, and how to track information on a timeline, then how to use the timeline to go back and review and compare information from that resource.

 

In Level 2 Medieval, the writing and assignments step up a notch-- in each part of the sequence, and within each section of the level 2 sequence, we are seeing that the level of the work increases appropriately as the student is taught how to build up to and use the skills that he is then asked to use in the assignments. It makes a lot of sense-- the student is not told to just go and do; he is taught to do first. I notice that in Medieval Level 2, as the student reads, he is given more questions to consider and respond to about the books he is assigned to read and how they relate to the history lesson.

 

We do supplement the reading with the K12 Human Odyssey book as well, because I feel it is a very well-written book, and we use it because my son's reading ability is up to the task of doing additional reading (we also add in extra resources, because we do history every other week in a history/language focus week, so he is given time to dive into a topic). But I have to dissent with some of the other posters in this thread; I think that when History Odyssey is taken as a sequential curriculum that builds skills as well as knowledge, it does a really nice job and augments our writing program. Particularly with the K12 book added in and giving the student ample time to explore topics of interest on his own, it can be as deep as you like.

 

For those who are die-hard SOTW fans who want to use SOTW again at level two-- I have to dissent here too that it would be hard to do. (I don't fall into this category; I really feel it is an elementary program, but to each their own). The chapters in SOTW are clearly labeled by topic, as are the assignments in History Odyssey. It is a pretty simple matter to just look at the topic you are covering in HO, and look up the appropriate chapter in SOTW's table of contents to see what to read to match it up with that lesson on a particular day-- absent learning disabilities, you could even just ask your middle school aged student to do that much. If you have a student who requires more guidance, then you can easily do this. Both authors did the courtesy of using very easy to interpret titles. Life doesn't get much easier than that :).

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