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Trying to pick my jaw up off the ground: brother's announcement


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RE: You're brother not being David Tennant.

 

 

 

Probably a good thing because can you imagine what trouble you'd have been in if you knew David Tennant and didn't tell us. That would not have gone over well on the board.

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol: True!

 

Robin, I hope that your mom is doing better with your sister there. How are YOU doing mama? This must be difficult for you to process as well. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

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Good grief, exactly.

 

I've been trying to decide as I read this whole thread, given how strongly the brother's family is reacting, how it would have made this situation better or easier for anyone if the happy trio had travelled from home to home dropping this news on each person individually. It seems to me that a well-thought-out and well-written, classy e-mail sent to everyone at the same time is a whole lot more sensible.

 

And, yes, the whole thing about putting kids at risk just because your relationship doesn't look like what the majority thinks is "normal" is appalling. Honestly, the last time I checked, the vast majority of people who sexually abused children are heterosexual males. But no reasonable person walks into every single room watching for those scary married guys.

 

Look, this kind of relationship wouldn't float my personal boat. And I'm sure it would be more than a little surprising to hear that someone I thought I knew well had made such a major change in his life. But, really, it doesn't sound like anyone is getting hurt, here. They are all consenting adults, and the brother doesn't sound flaky or mean spirited. He's just trying to be honest with his loved ones about his life and his family.

 

Mytwoblessings, I'm terribly sorry that your mom is ill and that she took this news so badly. However, I can't get comfortable with the idea that her reaction is your brother's fault. This is clearly a big, important thing for him, and I don't see how it's fair or reasonable or kind to expect him to keep it to himself -- and risk the feelings of the two women he loves -- because he is expected to know that a family member will have such an intense response.

 

I work all the time with my son on helping him to understand that, although we can't control our emotions, we can certainly learn to control our reactions to them. The fact that another kid hurts his feelings does not give him permission to punch the kid in the face. He's hurt, but he's responsible for his behavior, nonetheless. Obviously, your mom's situation is not analogous, because she's already vulnerable. But I still think there's value in the comparison.

 

I'm truly very sorry your family is having such a hard time with this. I hope everyone finds a way to make peace and get on with your lives.

 

:iagree:

Oh my soul, AMEN!!!!!

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if the new woman gets pregnant and she is not married to him, would they all just pay for medical expenses out of pocket since the new woman is unemployed?

 

If she is legally unmarried, she'd probably go on Medicaid to pay for the prenatal care & birth and the taxpayers would be the ones to pick up the tab :glare:

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If she is legally unmarried, she'd probably go on Medicaid to pay for the prenatal care & birth and the taxpayers would be the ones to pick up the tab :glare:

 

This is a jump. Perhaps the brother has money. Perhaps he has insurance where you can insure those you support. I used to. I only got married when I lost that kind of insurance. (I did have to make sure the dependence didn't break local law.)

 

Follow the line here: immoral woman moves in with immoral couple, this will result in an innocent child (remember she's not pregnant at this time) who will be raised in an immoral household, ergo, they must be the kind of scum who would do this and happily get the taxpayers to pick up the tab.

Edited by kalanamak
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In 10 years they will be the new demographic being targeted by the big advertisers. And who are we to judge power and equality issues in a relationship like this, when we probably ALL know standard one man/one woman relationships with that very problem?

 

Sure, it goes against everything I view as normal, right, good, moral, socially acceptable and able-to-contemplate-without-blanching. Yes. But, then a LOT of what goes on in society lately falls into that category. Se-xting. Asking political opinion of celebrity porn stars. Christianity as a form of bigotry. Gay marriage as the new Civil Rights Standard. Grandmothers birthing grandbabies. Middle schoolers doing stuff I had never heard of in high school. Friends with benefits. Getting high on bath salts.

 

I'm just gonna homeschool while Rome burns, and teach the kids that Nero wasn't a Superhero. And if they bring home any subsequent wives to add to the posse, then the Christmas gift remains the same size, they have to just split it up in whatever decimal-friendly way works.

 

BAHAHA! :lol: Thank you for that laugh.

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If she is legally unmarried, she'd probably go on Medicaid to pay for the prenatal care & birth and the taxpayers would be the ones to pick up the tab :glare:

 

Or she could get an abortion!

 

Amazing how the love for fetuses trumps the love for babies or small children.

 

Even if she has insurance, the other insured people would be paying in to pay for her. That's what insurance is. Amazing how that never makes anyone angry either. If you're healthy, you're picking up the tab for sick people! And lining the pockets of the CEO.

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Follow the line here: immoral woman moves in with immoral couple, this will result in an innocent child (remember she's not pregnant at this time) who will be raised in an immoral household, ergo, they must be the kind of scum who would do this and happily get the taxpayers to pick up the tab.

 

Amazing how when a new company moves into town and has their tax liability waived, and pays people to work part time (no benefits offered) or even full time at super low wages that make even a single person below the poverty line and thus eligible for government programs, it's the individuals who are the bloodsuckers, not the companies.

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OK, I have to admit that I was actually thinking more highly of SIL when I thought she was bi-sexual and that she, your brother, and the other woman were a threesome in all senses of the word. At least there would be equality there. Equal benefits for all parties involved.

 

But this whole "being fine with your best friend having s*x with your dh" thing just absolutely and totally creeps me out. :ack2:

 

Here's the deal, people -- and I don't care if I'm not politically correct on this one. Your best friend is your best friend. Your husband is your husband. Your husband does not have s*x with your best friend, unless you're also having s*x with your best friend's husband and he's way hotter than your husband is.

 

That SIL really needs to get with the program and realize that she's being an absolute fool.

 

And once again, look at me not caring if I'm politically correct. :D

 

Yeah, yeah, I know they can do whatever they want, and if it makes them happy, that's fine and all, but my personal opinion is that the brother is a selfish jerk and SIL is an idiot.

 

EDITED TO ADD: Robin, I'm sorry I'm saying mean things about your brother. I know you love him, but all I know about him is this one thing, and I'm having a tough time viewing him in a positive light based on the little I know about him. :grouphug:

 

The bolded part had me :lol: I'm of a mind that it's all really their business and the family needs to just let them figure it out and probably stay out of the way while they figure it out. Who knows? Maybe they already have it figured out???

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My brother seems to have buried his head in the sand and is letting SIL handle all. He just can't handle it. (imagine female swoon with hand on forehead.)

 

If he cannot stand up for himself and defend his right to have two wives, than why is he doing it?

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In defense of the email method: sometimes it is the best way to communicate something to many people at the same time, so you can be sure that everyone hears it from you first and not through the grapevine.

 

It can also give people time to get over their initial shock that the follow-up conversations (in person or on the phone) can be more productive and peaceful.

 

This is what I was thinking. Imagine if he just showed at Thanksgiving and introduced his 'new' wife.

 

Everybody has time to mull over the announcement, so the ensuing phone calls and family gatherings won't be quite as shocking.

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Mytwoblessings: My brother sent an email yesterday announcing he and his wife of 20 years have a new partner in the relationship. Yes a sister wife. This comes out of the blue and still trying to pick my jaw up off the ground. He didn't bother to sit down with my retired military catholic strict moral dad and let him know in advance. You can imagine the phone calls yesterday.

 

What??? Wow.

 

The most amazing thing is that he thinks that information like this should be casually shared in an EMAIL.

 

"Yeah, got a new car last week. The kids are doing well in school. My wife and I have decided to move a new woman into our family so I'm now announcing that I have two "wives". I'm doing well on the job."

 

Yikes.

 

OH MY LORD!

 

 

 

I'm all for unconditional love but this just seems a bit much. How do you handle something like this.

 

Well, no one knows! Historically, people used to keep their business, especially their bizarre, uncommon business, to themselves! So...you are a pioneer in handling it, I guess. Who gets emails like this? Gosh.

 

 

He just switched careers and is head of a big financial company division. This could jeopardize his job as well.

 

 

 

Yeah. Duh.

 

 

My big thought is the 2nd announcement will be she's pregnant. I would have rather heard they have taken on a surrogate and she is living with them that the sister wife thing. Don't know why that would be easier to handle. Trying to be open minded but difficult.

 

Mind is officially boggled.

 

 

Yeah. What the heck is he thinking to lay all this on all of you, including your presumably elderly parents?

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GailV: ]:grouphug: This whole thing could be the beginning of a wonderful, mature new relationship.

 

 

 

??

 

sounds like something out of a drippy teenage facebook post. Cue music swelling and angels singing about this super-special one-of-a-kind love affair. Yeah, right.

 

I mean, just because he has the stress of a new position in the company and SIL has the stress of bereavement, that couldn't possibly mean this isn't the best time to make decisions based on the feeling in his pants when he's around this woman.

 

 

Exactly. Gag me. This has been going on since the beginning of time.

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My open-mindedness would extend this far:

 

I would not comment. I wouldn't preach, or shun, or gossip within the family about them.

 

I wouldn't post passive-aggressive remarks on Facebook or in Grandma's hearing.

 

I would attend all state and formal family occasions, knowing and accepting that they'll be there, and treat them kindly at those events.

 

If we had a Christmas card-sending relationship I would continue it.

 

I would stick up for them when friends, family, and strangers had something to say.

 

What I could not do:

 

Embrace this lifestyle as if it were not against what I believe morally and what they themselves formerly professed.

 

Expose my children to their family arrangement as a regular thing, normalizing the option in my children's eyes.

 

Try to get relatives who are even less open-minded than myself to go against their own conscience.

 

From the tone of the excerpt from the letter, OP, they are prepared for the fact that not everybody is going to be able to embrace this. They probably expect some, especially those with children being raised with conservative Christian beliefs, to pull back a little, at least. For me, there would be a new distance to the relationship, but again I would certainly keep up the formalities of family and treat them well whenever I did see them.

 

I think they would be pleasantly surprised and contented it they could just be treated civilly and kindly while everybody sorts through their feelings. I would see that as enough of a goal, for starters, and try to help the extended family toward that end as much I could.

 

I agree with everything Tibbie has written.

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I suspect you might think differently if you really had a brother, liked your SIL, and something like this actually happened. I'm not saying you wouldn't still love your brother and come to accept his decision, but I'm pretty sure this would be a shock to just about anyone who hadn't grown up with this particular lifestyle choice as a common option.

 

Personally, I think it would be a lot easier to accept a brother doing this, than if your sister was in Robin's SIL's position. I can't imagine thinking it was a good idea for my sister to "share" her dh with a woman who was nothing more than a platonic friend to her. (And what kind of rotten lousy friend starts having s*x with your dh??? Why would it ever even occur to her that something like that would be OK??? I'm sorry, but FRIEND does not describe that other woman!) As I mentioned in an earlier post, at least Robin's brother gets the benefit of s*x with two different women; what does SIL get out of it but a sense of inadequacy, envy, and jealousy?

 

How would you even talk about something like that without getting yourself thrown out of the house or killed? :confused:

 

"Gosh, honey, you're just not enough woman for me any more, but your best friend is a hottie, so I was thinking that you should be OK with her moving into our house and having s*x with me, while you and I work to support her."

 

"Well, sure thing, Bob. My friend would be perfect for you in bed, and I'll just move into the spare room so you two can have your special time together while I'm all alone and completely rejected. But thank goodness she's such a true friend to me. Otherwise, this might be kind of weird."

 

Not happening at my house. :glare:

 

You keep reducing it to sex. :001_huh:

 

Is your own relationship with your husband only or primarily about sex? Why do you keep suggesting that the relationship of these 3 people is only or primarily about sex?

 

I think you are being reductionist and unfair to a trio of people you do not know.

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You keep reducing it to sex. :001_huh:

 

Is your own relationship with your husband only or primarily about sex? Why do you keep suggesting that the relationship of these 3 people is only or primarily about sex?

 

I think you are being reductionist and unfair to a trio of people you do not know.

 

:iagree:

Edited by ezrabean2005
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Mytwoblessings: Mom, who is in fragile state already from long term illness, got physically ill at the news. Dad reamed my brother a new one because of how it affected mom. Anything that puts my mom's health in jeopardy and he's a bear. What amazes me is that my brother expected them to understand.

 

Amazed with you. WTH?

 

 

Don't know where he's been all these years... Living under a rock or head in the sand to think they would even condone it. Dad's ready to offer sil a way out, pay for her divorce etc. In his mind he's already disowned my brother and this morning, pulled all the money at the investment firm out. In his mind, if brother shows this much bad judgement in personal life, it carries over to the professional as well.

 

 

 

Well, I hope Dad doesn't act in angry haste, because those are never the best decisions. But he is right that personal life decisions do indeed affect one's professional life.

 

None of us can understand his thinking this would be okay with anyone in the family. It simply isn't who we are. Brother was surprised (really) by my dad's reaction and now according to sil he's physically ill as well.

 

 

He is really surprised? That's hard to even fathom. I guess he's just 20 years ahead of his time. By then, all sorts of ridiculous arrangements will be the norm.

 

My issue is the timing, how it affects my parents health. They are my main concern. It was really stupid to drop a bomb on them like that.

 

Yeah. Really stupid.

 

 

And I know why he did it via email. He didn't have the guts to do a face to face because he knew it would cause anger and upset and he didn't want to deal with it.

 

 

Absolutely. And you are the sister. You know better than us, but this is a no-brainer red flag of cowardice to me. I'd be wondering why he thought he had to announce this AT ALL.

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You keep reducing it to sex. :001_huh:

 

Is your own relationship with your husband only or primarily about sex? Why do you keep suggesting that the relationship of these 3 people is only or primarily about sex?

 

I think you are being reductionist and unfair to a trio of people you do not know.

 

Obviously, a husband/wife relationship is a broad one, encompassing family and children and larger societal connections. But, in a way...YES, absolutely it is about sex.

 

When you are married, you have sex only with your husband, not just random, attractive men with whom you might form "an amazing connection." That's kind of part of the deal you made when you take vows.

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My feeling is that there is a very strong possibility that this is not just a "sister wives" thing, but that the third woman has a s*xual relationship with both the brother and the wife. The brother didn't say, "I have a second wife." He talked about the new woman as a third partner in his marriage with his wife. For all we know, the wife was the one who had lesbian tendencies and she talked the brother into the new relationship.

 

I was thinking that as well, from the wording.

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Your brother was a selfish jerk for making his announcement right now, knowing that your mom is so ill. He was clearing his own conscience with no regard whatsoever for your parents' feelings, when he could have kept his mouth shut about it. He had to know how your mom would react, so I can't imagine why he would give her such a huge shock at such a bad time.

 

I'm all for people living whatever lives they want to live, but to make a blanket email announcement to your immediate family about something as huge as this is cowardly and inconsiderate.

 

I would be livid at him, and my anger would have nothing to do with his new lifestyle; it would be all about the lack of consideration for your parents.

 

Yes, Ma'am. He can do what he want, but he doesn't have to dump it on his struggling parents.

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:svengo:

 

To me, your preferred approach seems horribly disrespectful to all involved.

 

I'm having one of those moments where I realize that not everyone thinks like I do. :001_huh:

 

Personal take-away: even people who seem to be acting horribly and selfishly may be acting from good intentions. I should give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

Well, bringing her to an event rather than dropping the bomb via email at least forces him to own up to his choices publicly.

 

And, knowing as many elderly people as I do and have (being in my 50's), most have a code of behavior that would not permit blowups in front of everyone, so the day would go ok. My own mother wouldn't have raised an eyebrow if you brought in an ostrich and announced that this was your new boyfriend or spouse. :tongue_smilie:

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Obviously, a husband/wife relationship is a broad one, encompassing family and children and larger societal connections. But, in a way...YES, absolutely it is about sex.

 

When you are married, you have sex only with your husband, not just random, attractive men with whom you might form "an amazing connection." That's kind of part of the deal you made when you take vows.

 

 

Who is to say a couple can't mutually agree to something other than your definition of sex within a marriage?

 

Look, I don't know the trio either. I could be completely wrong. I, am, however, monumentally annoyed by the repeated reductionist statements and chasmic leaps to conclusions about these people that keep cropping up in this thread.

 

Bottom line... even the OP doesn't really know what her brother, SIL and this woman think or feel about any of it. So, while I am all for the creation of fabulous fiction, especially a good detective/espionage plotline, I don't think this thread is a fair place for that.

 

People are, after all, making wild accusations and speculations about the OP's FAMILY... and that is just not cool.

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Mytwoblessings: Found out that essentially other woman is my SIL best friend and their part of relationship is platonic. Yes, brother gets mistress and wife. SIL went into it with open eyes.

 

Wow. None of my business but I'd love to know why she justifies this, just out of curiosity.

 

 

Told her what they do in privacy of own home was their business. They should have tempered their need to share this wonderful new relationship because of mom's health issues.

 

Um, yeah.

 

None of us would have had a problem with them bringing a best friend to christmas, etc because my family has always welcomed friends of family with open arms. We just didn't need to know brother was slipping down the hall to have some extra nooky.

 

Exactly. Why can't he keep his extremely personal business here to himself?? It could be a normal holiday event with an extra person, so far as everyone else is concerned.

 

I'm trying to keep lines of communication open with SIL because my dad has shut down all communication and I don't want to see the family destroyed over this. My brother seems to have buried his head in the sand and is letting SIL handle all. He just can't handle it. (imagine female swoon with hand on forehead.)

 

I'd like to smack him upside the head and ask what the **** he is thinking?

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You keep reducing it to sex. :001_huh:

 

Is your own relationship with your husband only or primarily about sex? Why do you keep suggesting that the relationship of these 3 people is only or primarily about sex?

 

I think you are being reductionist and unfair to a trio of people you do not know.

 

I thought she was the poster who was concerned if the second woman was jumping on board to a) be supported by the original couple, and/or b) get a piece of the other woman's inheritance from her parents.

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Audrey: Who is to say a couple can't mutually agree to something other than your definition of sex within a marriage?

 

They can agree to whatever they want...but it is not marriage, nor is it consistent with (normal) wedding vows, which I'm presuming brother took, having been married a long time, from what I gathered.

 

 

People are, after all, making wild accusations and speculations about the OP's FAMILY... and that is just not cool.

 

No, people are responding to the efficacy and morality of certain behaviors...not the OP's family. We don't know the family. The family could be anyone at all. Some are commenting on similar behaviors they have personally seen. But some things are just unacceptable, like dumping something like this via email on sick Mom.

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They can agree to whatever they want...but it is not marriage, nor is it consistent with (normal) wedding vows, which I'm presuming brother took, having been married a long time, from what I gathered.

 

 

 

 

No, people are responding to the efficacy and morality of certain behaviors...not the OP's family. We don't know the family. The family could be anyone at all. Some are commenting on similar behaviors they have personally seen. But some things are just unacceptable, like dumping something like this via email on sick Mom.

 

 

I don't disagree with the bolded.

 

Everything else is not for you or anyone else to say, except for the people in the relationship.

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Obviously, a husband/wife relationship is a broad one, encompassing family and children and larger societal connections. But, in a way...YES, absolutely it is about sex.

 

 

Well, my marriage isn't. I'm not 22 any more, and these people have been married for 20 years, they aren't either. I don't know how old you are, but some people outgrow sex, or age out of it. Not everyone, but some people do and that is OKAY. (Not that I expect anyone under the age of 45 to understand this, because I'm sure I wouldn't have been able to "understand" this when I was 22. No way, no how.)

 

Should I get a divorce and rip my son's world apart because we have reached that stage? I think no.

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And truly, how desperate are these two women that they are willing to share Robin's brother? I don't care if her brother is Ryan Gosling in a kilt; I'm just not getting this.

 

It's not like this is a longstanding cultural thing for the family; then I could understand it, because it would be customary and not unusual, but I cannot for the life of me, possibly fathom how this topic came up in conversation between Robin's brother and his wife, without the evening ending in her identifying the body at the county morgue.

 

Apparently, men are getting harder to find!

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Well, my marriage isn't. I'm not 22 any more, and these people have been married for 20 years, they aren't either. I don't know how old you are, but some people outgrow sex, or age out of it. Not everyone, but some people do and that is OKAY. (Not that I expect anyone under the age of 45 to understand this, because I'm sure I wouldn't have been able to "understand" this when I was 22. No way, no how.)

 

Should I get a divorce and rip my son's world apart because we have reached that stage? I think no.

And I do know someone who has a wife, older, as he is, who has been quite ill for some time. Including mentally. They do not live in the US, btw. He has married again, a slightly younger woman by maybe 10 years, but it is perceived as being more respectful in their culture, because she is supported, has not been rejected or divorced, and the husband has the ability to have a fuller marriage with someone else. Not quite running off with an 18 year old and dumping the older wife. However, this is not a threesome situation.

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You keep reducing it to sex. :001_huh:

 

Is your own relationship with your husband only or primarily about sex? Why do you keep suggesting that the relationship of these 3 people is only or primarily about sex?

 

I think you are being reductionist and unfair to a trio of people you do not know.

 

No. I truly don't. All I know is that the SIL made a new "friend" who subsequently seduced her dh (or he came on to her and she went for it,) and that is WRONG. You don't have an intimate relationship with your friend's husband, whether or not s*x is part of the package, so even if this isn't about s*x, it's still a serious infringement on the primary relationship. This is NOT the behavior of a friend.

 

This new woman manipulated herself into the middle of the relationship between Robin's brother and SIL. I highly doubt that any of this was brother or SIL's idea, even if they never missed a single episode of Sister Wives. It is simply too far outside of the realm of "what most people do." Could it have happened? Could it have been brother and SIL's idea? Sure, it could have -- but I really doubt it was.

 

Personally, I suspect it's less about s*x for the other woman (no matter what she's saying to the brother,) than it is about the fact that Robin's brother is apparently quite gainfully employed, and SIL works, too. There are both money and security to be had here -- and it doesn't appear that new woman even has a job. (Her job, perhaps, was to weasel her way into their home.)

 

I initially held a "this is weird but live and let live, and still love your brother and try to accept him even though he did a rotten thing by notifying his family via email." After reading more details from Robin, this sounds more like a scam to me. I could be completely wrong, but based on the descriptions, the brother and SIL are both prime candidates for someone who could prey on their personal weaknesses and vulnerabilities, which could end with "new wife" on the deed to the house and a signatory on all of the financial accounts, which could potentially mean ruin for brother and SIL.

 

So you see, I don't think it's all about the s*x. I think the other woman used sex to get what she wanted from the brother, and I think she used her newfound "best friend" status to manipulate SIL into thinking this whole thing was a good idea.

 

I hope I'm totally off-base and that they're all just as happy as can be, and that the new woman isn't what I think she is, but I would certainly want a full background check on the other woman before I was even remotely satisfied that she was a legitimate, honest, and true partner in that relationship.

Edited by Catwoman
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Mytwoblessings: No to none of the above. Yet, my dad thinks this woman has brainwashed them both into something.

 

 

D appeared in their lives 2 years ago approximately.

 

I think your Dad is onto something.

 

 

 

I don't think she has a job so will be supported by them.

 

Oh, *$%# no.

 

 

I'm so sorry.

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Catwoman: She certainly wormed her way into their lives in less than 2 years in a way that a "normal" best friend wouldn't do, and the fact that it appears she doesn't work and expects your brother and SIL to support her does lend a lot of credibility to the manipulation angle. I was thinking that she was SIL's lifelong best friend, not a new acquaintance who was quite possibly planning this whole thing right from the start.

 

 

Right. I noticed exactly the same things. This is no "friend". Friends don't do this to each other.

 

 

So basically, he would be the ideal victim for a manipulative woman. He is right at that midlife crisis age and has never been much of a ladies' man, and then all of a sudden this new woman is crazy about him. His wife is so desperate to hold on to her marriage that she will agree to anything. The new woman is fine with SIL still being around because she works and will bring money into the house.

 

 

Yeah. Sounds about right to me.

 

Why am I suspecting that SIL will also be doing most of the cooking, cleaning, and laundry?

 

 

Hmmm. Should be interesting.

 

Your brother and SIL were both born and raised in "one man and one wife" families. They lived as husband and wife for all these years until this new woman shows up, and all of a sudden, everything your brother and SIL have ever known is thrown out the window?

 

I think something is very odd about this whole situation. I think your brother is being a gullible fool because another woman is telling him how hot and s*xy he is, and your SIL is just plain desperate.

 

 

I think so too.

 

I am so sorry your family is stuck dealing with this.

 

I hope your brother and SIL don't add this woman to their bank accounts or put her name on the deed to their house, because I am very suspicious of her motives.

 

 

 

Exactly. I hope he has some sort of "pre-living together" (since not married) documents drawn up to protect his real wife and family. This sounds like a movie plot which doesn't end well for the husband and wife.

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JennifersLost: I think Catwoman has nailed it.

 

Have you done a criminal records check on this woman? I know here in BC I can do it online for free. I think I'd be doing some major snooping around.

 

 

Yes, OP, PLEASE do this. Someone check this person out.

 

I know, I know - one should be supportive and open to others, but this situation has all my red flags up. I'd be checking up on this woman in every way I know how.

 

 

Totally agreed. As a landlord of over a decade, who is routinely screens applicants, my red flags started flying immediately. And this is a lot more serious in its implications than just a house rental.

 

And I think your dad was very smart to pull his money out of your brother's business - if there is something funky happening, you don't want him losing his savings, too. He's spot on; if your brother can be talked into bringing a grownup into his marriage and home who will contribute nothing to the bottom line but expect to be treated like family - he is not to be trusted with anyone else's money. This is really, really fishy.

 

 

 

Yes.

 

 

A question - did the "email" sound like it actually came from your brother, or do you think the new woman actually wrote it?

 

 

Excellent catch. And I'm ashamed it didn't occur to me first, having experienced something similar in another family relationship when I was a teen, where someone "took over" for the adult.

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Catwoman: I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the big red flags. I was hesitant to post about what I was thinking, because I figured most people might tell me that I was standing in the path of true love.

 

 

No kidding. That's the standard, knee-jerk liberal response today, no matter how bizarre the situation.

 

As far as I'm concerned, I think Robin's brother and SIL are standing in the path of a speeding train, and I think that train is the new woman in their home.

 

Exactly.

 

As others have already asked -- did the emails seem like they were phrased in the way that brother and SIL usually speak, or did they seem like someone else may have had a big hand in writing them? I thought the emails sounded very contrived and well-rehearsed, and if the new woman is pulling the strings, it's no wonder Robin's brother and SIL didn't speak with their families in person

 

That's the problem with email. You never know. In person, he would have had to take responsibility.

 

 

-- the new woman wouldn't want the families to get the chance to influence their decision, so it makes perfect sense that she may have talked them into sending the emails instead. It would be entirely to her benefit to alienate the brother and SIL from their families, and sending a shocker of an email could very well accomplish just that.

 

Yes. Time to get a detective on this one if enough evidence isn't uncovered on a cursory review. Need a credit check done too. If her credit is horrendous or she owes massive debt, or is hiding out, Brother needs to know.

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Well, my marriage isn't. I'm not 22 any more, and these people have been married for 20 years, they aren't either. I don't know how old you are, but some people outgrow sex, or age out of it. Not everyone, but some people do and that is OKAY. (Not that I expect anyone under the age of 45 to understand this, because I'm sure I wouldn't have been able to "understand" this when I was 22. No way, no how.)

 

Should I get a divorce and rip my son's world apart because we have reached that stage? I think no.

 

You are missing the point. It's not whether you are having frequent, exciting sex. It is that when you do have it - however infrequently - that is one thing that is reserved for your husband ONLY (and vice versa), not just any random hot guy who rocks your boat.

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You are missing the point. It's not whether you are having frequent, exciting sex. It is that when you do have it - however infrequently - that is one thing that is reserved for your husband ONLY (and vice versa), not just any random hot guy who rocks your boat.

 

I agree with you, but I think many people anymore do not. I know a lot of people (mostly young, but not all) for whom sex is just something to do, a pastime to enjoy with anyone, anytime, no strings attached. Nothing special or meaningful about it.

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I agree with you, but I think many people anymore do not. I know a lot of people (mostly young, but not all) for whom sex is just something to do, a pastime to enjoy with anyone, anytime, no strings attached. Nothing special or meaningful about it.

 

But in those cases they don't move into the home as part of the family.

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My handling of this would be to write these people out of my lives. A relationship like this is not something I would want my children to see or frankly, even myself. This is an inherently unequal relationship for the women involved and there is no place for this kind of thing in our lives.

 

But my DH would get several hours of laughter out of the entire idea. I would simply be irate.

 

I would love to say that I would be open and welcoming to this, since it's not much of my business. But I think the above is more likely, in reality. There are inherent inequalities and issues that I do not agree with and will not present to my children as being morally upholdable.

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You are missing the point. It's not whether you are having frequent, exciting sex. It is that when you do have it - however infrequently - that is one thing that is reserved for your husband ONLY (and vice versa), not just any random hot guy who rocks your boat.

 

We have different conceptions of "about". To me, "about" isn't just part of something, but a fundamental basis. A kitchen is part of a house, but the house isn't "about" the kitchen (although I've met a few people who seem to make it so :lol:). You said marriage was about sex. Mine isn't. After 20 years, many marriages aren't. I know because I got to meet and talk to a lot of people who are "mismatched", ie one partner was done with it altogether and the other partner wasn't. This is such a troubling thing in a marriage I literally had people come and ask me for a pill to kill their libido, so that they could be monogamous to a celibate partner and not gnaw their knuckles night after night.

 

 

I am not defending this brother, and I think such situations are less stable (long lasting), but this is not a husband having at a random chick. It is someone he is bringing into the family. This will make him a more obvious target than the guy who quietly carries on affairs while appearing as a one man-one woman to his neighbors. Thus humans punish the "odd" and reward the secretive or hypocritical.

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Which is "better"? Apply whatever criteria you want for better.

 

I wouldn't say that any choice -- living together as a family or not -- is necessarily "better". But I would say that it's better not to email the family about the situation, then act all surprised that others don't immediately react as though it's hunky dory.

 

 

I seem to recall reading that the brother was surprised by his parents' reaction. I'm surprised that he's that clueless about his own family-of-origin's culture. And if he's that out of touch on that count, I wonder how much thought and consideration he's given to other facets of this relationship.

 

(As an aside, my aunt wanted to do something similar in regard to coming out as gay to Grandma when Grandma was in a fragile state. Her sisters basically told her she was being incredibly selfish to pick that time to disclose her new lifestyle -- they pointed out that Grandma knew she lived with a female friend, Grandma could draw her own conclusions without having it shoved in her face.)

 

 

Insofar as what I've read here, Brother seems rather immature in his thinking process. He comes across as wandering through this entire scenario with no concept that his actions have consequences.

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kalanamak: We have different conceptions of "about". To me, "about" isn't just part of something, but a fundamental basis. A kitchen is part of a house, but the house isn't "about" the kitchen (although I've met a few people who seem to make it so :lol:). You said marriage was about sex.

 

I didnt' use the word "about".

 

But yes, it is an integral part - at least at the beginning - of something that sets this marital relationship apart from all other relationships. Or at least it should be. If others are having sex with random people, then I'm not sure what to say about that.

 

 

Mine isn't. After 20 years, many marriages aren't. I know because I got to meet and talk to a lot of people who are "mismatched", ie one partner was done with it altogether and the other partner wasn't. This is such a troubling thing in a marriage I literally had people come and ask me for a pill to kill their libido, so that they could be monogamous to a celibate partner and not gnaw their knuckles night after night.

 

 

Hey, I'm in my 50's and have been married 23 years. You don't have to tell me about the normal ebb and flow of a long relationship. But the last part is just ridiculous. No one needs to "knaw their knuckles night after night." There ARE ways to resolve inequities that do not involve adultery.

 

I am not defending this brother, and I think such situations are less stable (long lasting), but this is not a husband having at a random chick. It is someone he is bringing into the family.

 

Ewww. That's just all the more appalling. He's not even willing to accord his wife the dignity of keeping quiet about it. His wife is willing to go along, from what we have read, but that doesn't mean this is best for anyone.

 

 

This will make him a more obvious target than the guy who quietly carries on affairs while appearing as a one man-one woman to his neighbors. Thus humans punish the "odd" and reward the secretive or hypocritical.

 

 

But see, there is NO reward. Being secretive just gets you more stress and more problems. "Can a man play with fire and not be burned?" No.

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You said marriage was about sex. Mine isn't. After 20 years, many marriages aren't.

 

Yeah, but if your dh brought your best friend home with him one afternoon and told you that he'd asked her to move in and be his "new wife," wouldn't you have a bit of a problem with that? :confused:

 

OK, a lot of marriages aren't hot and heavy in the S*x Department after 20 years, but I doubt that most wives would be pleased to learn that their husbands were getting it somewhere else. It's a huge betrayal -- and when there is also an intimate personal relationship and an intense connection with the other woman, I believe that would be incredibly damaging to almost any wife's sense of self-worth, even if there was absolutely no s*x involved.

Edited by Catwoman
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People seem to be missing part of my point - girlfriend is not equal to wife. The OP's brother has not made that type of commitment to the new woman. He has a wife and a girlfriend.

 

Now all that said, this reminds me of a feminist article I read a few years ago in college. It was about a woman who wanted a wife. No sex was needed, just someone who managed the house.

 

Personally, I'd LOVE to have a good wife. Someone who made sure the laundry was all done and put away, who scheduled all the health appointments, someone to make sure dinner was hot and on the table promptly at six pm. That way, I could focus on the home schooling and raising of the child. I'd also love to have a husband for TEA time. Heavens I miss TEA.

 

Oh, and about how hard it is to find a husband - SO HARD. There are lots of men out there but in all honestly there is normally a very good reason if they haven't married by 40. Like, horrifyingly good reason. Dating in my 40s reminds me of the skit on In Living Color of "Lowered Expectations".

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People seem to be missing part of my point - girlfriend is not equal to wife. The OP's brother has not made that type of commitment to the new woman. He has a wife and a girlfriend.

 

If he's moving the new woman into the house and is considering her an equal part in the relationship with his wife, it's just semantics (and a legal definition) that defines one as a girlfriend and another as the wife.

 

Personally, I'd LOVE to have a good wife. Someone who made sure the laundry was all done and put away, who scheduled all the health appointments, someone to make sure dinner was hot and on the table promptly at six pm. That way, I could focus on the home schooling and raising of the child. I'd also love to have a husband for TEA time. Heavens I miss TEA.

 

Oh, and about how hard it is to find a husband - SO HARD.

 

But would that entitle you to make a move on another woman's husband? And once you were involved in a relationship with the guy, would you really want to share that husband with another wife? Would you really want to be the third person moving into an existing 20 year marriage? And if the guy was the husband of your best friend, wouldn't you feel like a horrible person for betraying her and essentially stealing her dh?

 

Wouldn't it be easier and less emotionally complex to just sleep around a little, and hire a full-time maid? ;) Because I can't wrap my mind around the whole idea of it ever being acceptable to manipulate yourself into another couple's life. It's their life. Get your own. (Not you, personally -- I know you'd never actually do anything like that! I was just speaking in general terms.)

 

There are lots of men out there but in all honestly there is normally a very good reason if they haven't married by 40. Like, horrifyingly good reason.

 

Well, Robin's brother has been married for 20 years and he seems to be a real jerk, so apparently even the married ones can be no day at the beach. :D

 

Dating in my 40s reminds me of the skit on In Living Color of "Lowered Expectations".

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I remember that!!!

Edited by Catwoman
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I am wondering how this would all play out in court if the new partner gets pregnant, if one woman decides to leave, or both women decide to leave, or how alimony would be distributed...? For example, if the new woman gets pregnant and she is not married to him, would they all just pay for medical expenses out of pocket since the new woman is unemployed? Sounds like a situation that could get stressful and complicated.

 

That's a really good point. I wonder about that too. Especially if, as OP suspects, there is a baby announcement is on the horizon. I agree with Cat too about the bank accounts and properties they own together.

 

Yeah, but if your dh brought your best friend home with him one afternoon and told you that he'd asked her to move in and be his "new wife," wouldn't you have a bit of a problem with that? :confused:

 

OK, a lot of marriages aren't hot and heavy in the S*x Department after 20 years, but I doubt that most wives would be pleased to learn that their husbands were getting it somewhere else. It's a huge betrayal -- and when there is also an intimate personal relationship and an intense connection with the other woman, I believe that would be incredibly damaging to almost any wife's sense of self-worth, even if there was absolutely no s*x involved.

 

:iagree::iagree: I know it wouldn't fly in my house at all. :glare:

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