Why do so many people redshirt their bright, normally-developing kids?

[momma2three]

In most states K is not required. IMO if a parent showed up with a 6 year old for K they should automatically be placed in 1st grade. It seems like theory fair way to do things.

 

Around here birth certificates are needed for sports like little league to make sure people aren't putting their older kids with the younger to get an advantage. I do t understand ow that's even allowed in school.

 

A few districts around here have started doing this. My friends who live in those districts really like it, because it completely alleviates the stress of having to decide. I wish my district did it.

[EKS]

 

Around here birth certificates are needed for sports like little league to make sure people aren't putting their older kids with the younger to get an advantage. I do t understand ow that's even allowed in school.

 

And what's sad is that my children who are vastly behind in the sports department were not allowed to "play down" even though they (and their teammates) got absolutely nothing out of being on a team. Being allowed to play on teams for kids a year or two younger would have been the correct placement.

[Serenade]

Is this method common now? I was in the gifted program in the 80s and we had to score over a certain cutoff on an IQ test, given out of class time during the summer.

 

I think it is more common than not, although I'm sure the percentage varies. I was surprised to hear it was 85% at this particular school. To me, that is not really a gifted program -- I think it is just another way to divide kids up according to ability, something that was allowed back when I went to school but is discouraged by many folks today.

[ErinE]

We "redshirted" our son because he was not ready for a kindergarten regimen. He could not sit still and complete a multi-step task (color, cut out, sort, and glue paper shapes) that required 15-20 minutes of seat time. I don't regret doing it.

 

I know many parents who have red-shirted March-September boys because the kids couldn't have met the "seat time" test. I don't know of any parent who red-shirted for intellectual reasons.

 

ETA: I know of a boy who's kindergarten teacher recommended he take another year in K because he wasn't emotionally or behaviorally ready for first grade. Five years later, the parents are struggling with his schooling. He's a bright kid, but he can't complete the level of work required of him. There's are greater expectations in the higher grades than pure intelligence.

Edited September 5, 2012 by ErinE

[Riverland]

I think it is more common than not, although I'm sure the percentage varies. I was surprised to hear it was 85% at this particular school. To me, that is not really a gifted program -- I think it is just another way to divide kids up according to ability, something that was allowed back when I went to school but is discouraged by many folks today.

 

Yeah, in elementary it was called "Low, Medium, and High" groups for reading and math. I don't think those terms are politically correct anymore. Our district now does IQ type tests for their full day elementary gifted program. "Honors" middle school classes are generally based on grade level MAP scores. However, parents can request their kids be in honors no matter what their scores.

[Word Nerd]

My DD has an August birthday and the age cut-off in our state is Aug. 31. I knew she was ready for school and didn't even consider holding her back a year, though she is small for her age and is one of the youngest kids in her class. I assume that other parents are capable of making similar assessments of their own children's readiness for school. Not being in school is not the same as not learning, either.

[Black-eyed Suzan]

I'm actually surprised that only a couple of people who redshirted mentioned bullying.

 

I redshirted my older ds (July birthday), then decided to homeschool instead. It wasn't academics, it wasn't sports. It was social and fine motor skills (both are very immature), along with an inability to sit still. He is not aggressive and he is socially awkward: a prime candidate for bullying if he is also the smallest.

 

My husband was the youngest in his class. He is definitely gifted (IQ test to prove it) and was always way ahead academically. He struggled socially because he was the youngest. I was also young and ahead academically, but not socially. We talked about redshirting our oldest before he turned one - and felt confident in that decision later when we realized his particular personality and issues.

 

A PS KG teacher friend told me she knew without being told which kids had summer birthdays - they were just less mature and a lot more struggled.

 

Now that I'm homeschooling him I feel like he's behind. :001_rolleyes::nopity: :tongue_smilie:

[IsabelC]

Yeah, in elementary it was called "Low, Medium, and High" groups for reading and math. I don't think those terms are politically correct anymore.

Nope, now they are called by 'neutral' names. But every kid in the class still knows that Green is the advanced group and Yellow is the slow group, or whatever ;)

 

 

I find it interesting that so many people feel it's OK to redshirt if your child is academically unready, but not OK to do it because of sports, and even if it's for academic reasons, it's still frowned upon if the child is 'average' or above.

 

So it seems that some people refer to a theoretical average level that a grade one kid 'should' be at, and it's OK to redshirt so that your child can reach that level, but not OK to do it so that your child who is already on or above level can be more ahead. Or have I totally misunderstood some people's opinions.

[mcmama]

This is so strange. I'm sitting here complaining that my Dec. birthday 4-year-old can't go to K this year, and people are intentionally holding their kids back for no real reason? I don't even get that. And I've always been the type to think that later school entry is good, because kids often need to be home and play more, because schools push too hard too soon, etc. But my boy wants DESPERATELY to go to school (he was in prek last year, but we just can't afford it this year), he's academically doing all of the things k kids are supposed to, he's socially capable, and he's TALL. I just shake my head. I don't get the PS culture.

[eloquacious]

I'm actually surprised that only a couple of people who redshirted mentioned bullying.

:001_rolleyes::nopity: :tongue_smilie:

 

It's definitely something I consider. My older son has eye tracking problems, he's even had a surgery. At home, he wears a patch once or twice a day to strengthen the weaker eye. Allegedly, he won't need any further surgeries and as he grows older and the eye strength stuff works out, it'll be better. He'll "only" have the problem when he's really tired.

 

For now, though, I hate the thought of him being "Lazy Eye" boy. I wonder if another year at home would help him at all... but then, he is SO ready. He's precocious academically, and a social little guy. Our Pre-K co-op closed up shop so he's just at home with his brother this coming year, and I know he'll miss hanging out with his friends. Sigh.

 

ETA: Oh, academically, my 4.5 year-old (February birthday) could have entered this year and done fine. Even his fine motor skills, which I've long thought were far behind, have caught up to where he is loving to draw and write at home. So for us, clearly, the "right" answer is to put him in on time. One year behind where I'd like him to be academically, one year ahead of where I'd like him to be physically... so yeah, "just right."

Edited September 5, 2012 by eloquacious

[zelli21]

Here in Texas, it's sports. period.

 

Every boy with a summer/late spring birthday is red-shirted.

 

Most of the boys I know that were red-shirted this school year would do quite well in school, but to have the competitive edge in sports (which is king in Texas), then you keep your boys out.

 

Girls? Send them...no questions asked.

 

My DS has a late July birthday and I'd never in a million years red-shirt him just so he could play sports. Maybe it is because I've been tranplanted into Texas that I feel the way I do but I'd be perfectly happy if my son does not play football (I'm sure that I'd be thrown out of the state for that comment if it was legal to do so). As a parent, it is my job to ensure he is prepared to start kindergarten.

 

My step-kids have late July and early September birthday's and they were red-shirted, not my DH decision. Now, it looks like they may all need to be repeat a year, very complicated situation. If that happens, they will start their senior years at 19.

 

While I'm sure it does not happen frequently but when a red-shirted kid needs to repeat a grade, it cause a problem IMO. For that reason, I just can't support it as the norm.

[Irene Lynn]

This thread has made me very glad that my son's birthday is in February. He is also tall. And according to their tests he is well prepared for Kindergarten, though I had some doubts. I just thought he would be better behaved if he were actually learning something than using his mind in other interesting ways. I wasn't about to redshirt him. He has too much imagination to risk it. LOL This way he shouldn't be one of the oldest, nor one of the youngest. I have no idea what others in his class have chosen, but he is enjoying himself, so that is good enough for me. I work with him more after his half day.

 

All these cut off dates amuse me. The year my dd would have started, the cut off date was June 1st. Kind of early, if you ask me. Her birthday was in July, but we chose to homeschool her, so she started her K year "early". Our birthdays are within 5 days of each other and I started at the same time she did. It felt strange to think she was supposedly ahead, though in many other states she would have been in the right class. I liked how it worked out in the end. She turned 18 and we shoved her off to college. :D I wouldn't have wanted her to have an extra year at home at that point. I mean, I loved her very much and liked having her around, but she needed to get out of the nest at that point to take the next step toward adulthood. There is no way I would want a 19 year old boy in my home, who was still in high school. But that is just me. Perhaps I need more patience or something.

[SKL]

It's definitely something I consider. My older son has eye tracking problems, he's even had a surgery. At home, he wears a patch once or twice a day to strengthen the weaker eye. Allegedly, he won't need any further surgeries and as he grows older and the eye strength stuff works out, it'll be better. He'll "only" have the problem when he's really tired.

 

For now, though, I hate the thought of him being "Lazy Eye" boy. I wonder if another year at home would help him at all... but then, he is SO ready. He's precocious academically, and a social little guy. Our Pre-K co-op closed up shop so he's just at home with his brother this coming year, and I know he'll miss hanging out with his friends. Sigh.

 

Your son sounds like my oldest brother. He too had ambliopia, had nerdy glasses, and wore a size 3 to KG. Some big 6th grader tried to bully him. My mom was called to the office because a fight had occurred. The 6th grader was crying because my brother punched him in the nose! The adults could not figure out how my shrimpy brother managed to reach the other kid's nose to punch it. :lol: Needless to say, my brother was not destined to be a victim of bullying.

 

My eldest (who is young with an October birthday) is a petite girl in a school where lots of people redshirt, so she is far smaller than many of the kids. I've taught her since preschool that she's not to allow others to get physical with her, and exactly what to do/say if it happens. We've modeled it. She's also had some kiddy karate lessons. I think she'll be OK. Maybe it's different for small boys, but in my experience, small isn't necessarily an invitation to bullying. I'd worry more about those dreamy kids (of any size) who wouldn't think to respond until the aggressor has run away.

[umsami]

Have two boys, one with a late September bday, the other with an early October bday. Started DS1 (October) in school in NY that has a December cut-off. He did great. Then we moved to FL which has a Sept. 1st cut off, and they told me he couldn't start Kindy for another year because of it. So, he's on track for FL, but was a year older in NY when we moved back. Now we're back in FL (yes, it's been a lot of moves), and once again he's "normal" for his class. Honestly, I didn't see any differences in terms of getting along, behavior, or social skills in either situation.

 

DS2 has a late September bday. He started PK3 in FL and then when we moved to NY went into Kindy rather than doing PK4 as he would have had we stayed in FL. He did great as well. Now we're back in FL and he's a year younger than most, still doing wonderfully.

 

It never occurred to me to hold either boy back, to be honest. They are typical boys in terms of energy-level, etc.

[eloquacious]

Your son sounds like my oldest brother. He too had ambliopia, had nerdy glasses, and wore a size 3 to KG. Some big 6th grader tried to bully him. My mom was called to the office because a fight had occurred. The 6th grader was crying because my brother punched him in the nose! The adults could not figure out how my shrimpy brother managed to reach the other kid's nose to punch it. :lol: Needless to say, my brother was not destined to be a victim of bullying.

 

 

 

Your brother's story is awesome!

[cindergretta]

Your son sounds like my oldest brother. He too had ambliopia, had nerdy glasses, and wore a size 3 to KG. Some big 6th grader tried to bully him. My mom was called to the office because a fight had occurred. The 6th grader was crying because my brother punched him in the nose! The adults could not figure out how my shrimpy brother managed to reach the other kid's nose to punch it. :lol: Needless to say, my brother was not destined to be a victim of bullying.

 

 

 

This was my dh! He was a *shrimpy* little geek whose birthday is in June. He isn't a tall man by any stretch and until his late twenties, he couldn't gain a pound. He was raised in the military. Every new installation was a new chance for him to be bullied. And a new chance for him to set the record straight... :lol: In elementary school, the bully attacked him on the playground after school and he broke the kid's nose with his shoe. He got in 10 kinds of trouble but no one bullied him after that at that school/on that base.

 

I didn't quote the poster, but someone mentioned wanting their dc to get in young and not understanding people who redshirt for no real reason. I don't think anyone redshirts for no real reason. I think their reasons are real and valid to them. Just because they aren't valid to someone else doesn't mean they are inherently not valid. ;)

[Caroline]

 

I didn't quote the poster, but someone mentioned wanting their dc to get in young and not understanding people who redshirt for no real reason. I don't think anyone redshirts for no real reason. I think their reasons are real and valid to them. Just because they aren't valid to someone else doesn't mean they are inherently not valid. ;)

 

I totally agree.

[Word Nerd]

I just read this post and thought others might be interested: Looking Back, How Do Kids Feel About Having Been Red-Shirted?

[Bluegoat]

Well, we've homeschooled in the end, but I also considered sending dd a year late, and would do the same with dd2. THat being said, I might have sent them right to grade one, but I suspect people don't always realize that is possible and schools may not encourage it.

 

For me it had very little to do with academics, dd is very bright. It was more that I was sure she would be dead tired by the time school let out at 2pm. It seemed like too long a day for a five year old, and the class of 24 seemed much too large as well. I think smaller kids really need a more intimate setting and a shoter school day to thrive. I also didn't like that the long day would probably mean she was too fried for things like her piano lesson which she really enjoys.

 

Had I found a half day program with fewer kids, I'd have been much more likely to go for it.

 

I think by six and especially by seven a day that ends at two is much more reasonable, though I still think 25 is too many kids (and this year classes here can have up to 30!)

[Bluegoat]

As well, I don't know that anyone else has said this already, I really think that five is too young as a normal age for starting school. I'd not be inclined to start them earlier just because the school thinks it is ok.

[SKL]

I just read this post and thought others might be interested: Looking Back, How Do Kids Feel About Having Been Red-Shirted?

 

I'm skeptical because, as the linked article says, "This practice takes place most often with upper socioeconomic status Caucasian males." Wouldn't those from the upper crust automatically score better on some scales of satisfaction? It doesn't say they controlled for that.

[Paige]

I'm skeptical because, as the linked article says, "This practice takes place most often with upper socioeconomic status Caucasian males." Wouldn't those from the upper crust automatically score better on some scales of satisfaction? It doesn't say they controlled for that.

 

It says it was "a purposeful sample of students in an upper socioeconomic district." My understanding is that with that purposeful sample, they were limiting the sample to upper socioeconomic status males- at the very least, the sample would be disproportionately upper socioeconomic. I thought it was interesting because the children who are not red shirted are less likely to begin with developmental delays, be relatively immature, and are more likely to be advanced or at least on target academically from the start.

[slackermom]

The person who did the study was at Texas A&M University, so perhaps there is also more satisfaction for that group because of their Texas perspective?

[Word Nerd]

I'm skeptical because, as the linked article says, "This practice takes place most often with upper socioeconomic status Caucasian males." Wouldn't those from the upper crust automatically score better on some scales of satisfaction? It doesn't say they controlled for that.

 

The students who were not red-shirted had the same upper socioeconomic status as the students who were, though.

[CathyEJ]

I didn't quote the poster, but someone mentioned wanting their dc to get in young and not understanding people who redshirt for no real reason. I don't think anyone redshirts for no real reason. I think their reasons are real and valid to them. Just because they aren't valid to someone else doesn't mean they are inherently not valid. ;)

:iagree:

 

My 3rd grader has an August birthday, and I agonized for months about whether to send him to school at barely 5, or to wait a year. I chose to send him on time, and he's done okay. Nothing has come as easily to him as they have for his brother (January birthday), but I'm not sure whether an extra year would have helped or hindered him. It's a tough decision and it's even tougher to know whether you made the right one.

[bolt.]

I think our school district encourages 'red shirting for no reason' -- there is a wide window of elegibility for kids to enter (at K or grade 1) that encourages parents to think about the choice of which September to choose for a start date for each child. Most birthdates yeild two possible start years.

 

Some parents are 'as soon as possible' parents, thinking that starting sooner is good for kids. Other parents are 'there's no hurry' parents who think another year at home would probably be a good thing. No one uses the term 'redshirting' to discribe parents who choose not to start a child as soon as they are elgible to do so, and nobody really comments on the choice. Probably that's because it isn't set up as "Start this year, unless you really want to buck the system by waiting and starting late." -- It's set up as, "Start whichever year seems like a good fit for your family."

 

Personally, starting K at 5-nearly-six made a lot more sense to me than starting at 4-nearly-five, so that's what I chose, even though children at 4-nearly-five are completely eligible to start K if their parents so-choose.

[SKL]

My kids needed a well visit before being allowed in school. They were enrolled for 1st grade. After the visit, I was given a printout for each girl, most of which was standard advice for kids their age. For both girls (then age 5.5 and 5.75), the "advice" was that it's time to start thinking about whether or not they are ready for KG.

 

This is reflective of the attitude I see locally. Starting KG before age 6 is completely optional and often discouraged. I've also been advised by teachers that it's wonderful if younger kids have the opportunity to take KG twice. "They feel so confident because they already know everything."

 

I've also had a teacher tell me that kids who have not yet shed any teeth are usually not ready for 1st grade. (So I guess I should have been nearly 8 when I entered 1st.)

 

When teachers are biased in this way, I worry that they are less patient with the kids they think they shouldn't have been "burdened with." Maybe they don't give them as much one-on-one as they deserve because the teacher doesn't feel responsible for teaching the "unready" child.

 

And of course the opposite of all this - flexibility for starting even one day early - is nonexistent. You can make it happen given the right facts, but it is very difficult.

[eloquacious]

I wish the school year could be amended to have 'half years.' I see why this is a logistical nightmare, but it would certainly solve these problems. ;)

 

I'm not going to lie, this whole discussion is making me rethink getting pregnant. I've been trying for over a year, and at this point we'd have a summer/early aumtumn birthday. Maybe I need to stop "trying" until after December, so he or she can be the oldest in the class, rather than the youngest? :-P

 

Oh, I'm only half kidding.

[EKS]

I wish the school year could be amended to have 'half years.'

 

They did have this in some districts in California in the 1930s. My uncle was born in April and started K in January (second semester) at age 4. He went through school being advanced a grade each January until they moved to another district when he was halfway through 7th grade. At that point they had to choose whether to place him in 7th or 8th grade the next fall, and they chose 8th.

[Carrie75]

They did have this in some districts in California in the 1930s. My uncle was born in April and started K in January (second semester) at age 4. He went through school being advanced a grade each January until they moved to another district when he was halfway through 7th grade. At that point they had to choose whether to place him in 7th or 8th grade the next fall, and they chose 8th.

 

Both my CA native parents were in half years. My January dad started K in January and my August mom started K in September. Both started in 1955 and both graduated in 1968, my dad in the January, my mom in June.

 

Too bad they got rid of that practice.

[piraterose]

As a mom of an April daughter, the first thing I think about when it comes to redshirting, is the idea of 14.5/almost 15 year old boys in middle school with my 11 year old daughter, or 19/almost 20 year olds in high school with my 14 year old daughter.

 

I remember being sexually harassed in 6th grade (in a bullying, teasing sort of way - not in "I like you" way) by a group of boys (a mix of 6th, 7th & 8th). I told my parents and when they met with my counselor, he told them said "Boys will be boys" (heh... my mom wasn't going to put up with that nonsense, she got me switched to a different counselor).

 

Imagine if that group of boys had been 14/15 to my 11 (I was a June baby), I shudder at the thought. You hear about kids getting more sexually active at a younger age, and I have to wonder if redshirting may be part of the equation. Just because he's "socially" behind or "immature" at 6 doesn't mean he doesn't catch up and act 15 when he's 15. I'm not saying that all 15 olds boys are going to act inappropriately, but hormones are hormones.

 

I know this is my own issue, and not based on research, but I'm really surprised this doesn't get mentioned in discussions of redshirting.

Edited September 10, 2012 by piraterose

[slackermom]

piraterose-

 

I have similar concerns. With an August birthday, I was also the youngest in my class, and by 6th grade I was also hassled (including being groped) quite a bit by boys. Whenever I tried to report anything, I was met with rolling eyes or "What now?"

 

My daughter's birthday is 6 weeks before our local cut-off date, and we enrolled her as soon as she was eligible. She has boys in her class 2 years older than she is, and this has lead to problems on the playground, including 2 concussions last year. Academically, DD is ready to skip a grade, but I don't want her to have a 3 year age gap with boys in the years to come.

[Bluegoat]

All of this makes me think "mixed age classes in small schools". Kids mix with a variety of children of different ages, can form close friendships with those at their social level, work at their level in different subjects, and the teacher can keep an eye on it all.

[SKL]

As a mom of an April daughter, the first thing I think about when it comes to redshirting, is the idea of 14.5/almost 15 year old boys in middle school with my 11 year old daughter, or 19/almost 20 year olds in high school with my 14 year old daughter.

 

I remember being sexually harassed in 6th grade (in a bullying, teasing sort of way - not in "I like you" way) by a group of boys (a mix of 6th, 7th & 8th). I told my parents and when they met with my counselor, he told them said "Boys will be boys" (heh... my mom wasn't going to put up with that nonsense, she got me switched to a different counselor).

 

Imagine if that group of boys had been 14/15 to my 11 (I was a June baby), I shudder at the thought. You hear about kids getting more sexually active at a younger age, and I have to wonder if redshirting may be part of the equation. Just because he's "socially" behind or "immature" at 6 doesn't mean he doesn't catch up and act 15 when he's 15. I'm not saying that all 15 olds boys are going to act inappropriately, but hormones are hormones.

 

I know this is my own issue, and not based on research, but I'm really surprised this doesn't get mentioned in discussions of redshirting.

 

It kind of does, but in reverse. I've seen parents use that as a reason to redshirt their young sons and daughters - so they won't be the last to enter puberty, the last to drive, etc.

 

I have a different mindset since I was the youngest in my class. It did not bother me one bit that I wasn't under pressure to get my license much before I went to college. I was just glad to be getting out of that zoo-like environment sooner. My sister was the same way. Maybe it does bother some kids, but I didn't see that.

 

As for the puberty thing - hormones go both ways. I was not the least bit interested in "that stuff" when the boys were going through that. There were (unfortunately) plenty of girls who enjoyed attracting the boys' attention, so they rarely looked in my direction. The couple of times when some overly impulsive boy did something stupid, it was a momentary thing and more done for shock value than anything else. (As far as I remember, anyway.)

 

Now, I have one daughter who may end up being "well-endowed" a little too young for my liking. Maybe she'll get unwelcome attention. As far as I'm concerned, that's what martial arts classes are for. ;)

 

I do see my kids picking up on stuff they could only be hearing from much older kids. I guess it's no worse than the stuff I was exposed to through my older brothers, though. (An example from yesterday: we were watching Billy Joel's old videos on YouTube. My 5.5yo commented, "I think he's drunk on drugs." It just rolled off her tongue. She sure didn't get that from me.)

[AndyJoy]

My mother "redshirted" me back in the 1980s. Our school district had a Dec. 1 cutoff, and I made it by about 2 weeks. She received a lot of flak from others because I could read and was articulate and mature for my age. My mom didn't care. Her reasons were:

 

She didn't want me to be the youngest.

We intended to move to another state with a Sept. 1 cut-off eventually, so I would really be the youngest.

She thought I would benefit from more time at home with her to cement our family values and social skills before putting me with 31 peers and 1 adult!

She wanted me to be 18 when I graduated from HS.

 

I was the oldest in my class and learned nothing in K, but I had fun. Later, two of my schools offered to skip me a grade or two, but my mom doubted whether I'd be challenged even then (other than with tedious homework), so she told them "No thanks." She preferred to let me have my free time to pursue my own interests rather than having to spend time doing time-consuming homework that was not challenging anyway. We did move to the state with a Sept. 1 cutoff, so I was no longer the oldest starting in 5th grade.

 

I was teased and bullied a lot for being smart, obedient, and defending underdogs. I think having that "extra year" (which wasn't extra by 5th grade) helped me build the confidence to not be phased by the bullies. Had I been the youngest in my class, this might have been harder. I don't know for sure how things would have turned out, but I think my mom was right that a higher grade wouldn't have met my academic needs anyway, so I might as well at least be on the same footing age-wise. Being the slightly older mature one was a better peer position than the being the youngest little "know-it-all."

[eloquacious]

:iagree:

All of this makes me think "mixed age classes in small schools". Kids mix with a variety of children of different ages, can form close friendships with those at their social level, work at their level in different subjects, and the teacher can keep an eye on it all.

[wapiti]

All of this makes me think "mixed age classes in small schools". Kids mix with a variety of children of different ages, can form close friendships with those at their social level, work at their level in different subjects, and the teacher can keep an eye on it all.

:iagree:

Edited January 12, 2016 by wapiti

[snowbeltmom]

All of this makes me think "mixed age classes in small schools". Kids mix with a variety of children of different ages, can form close friendships with those at their social level, work at their level in different subjects, and the teacher can keep an eye on it all.

You just described Montessori. :D

[amyrobynne]

The biggest deal, though, is that the expectations for K have gotten out of control. Her first week of school the teacher sent home a note to parents stating that if their child couldn't write their name properly) and didn't know their ABCs they were officially behind and the parents should remediate at home. Seriously. How is a kid BEHIND after 1 week of K?

 

My son wrote his name in all capitals the first week of PRE-KINDERGARTEN and the teacher/aide would cross it out and make him write it the correct way. He also had homework almost every day because he daudled and didn't do his 1-2 writing sheets while he was there (and had to sit and watch the other kids playing at free choice time). Meanwhile, he was reading full books already -- he just didn't have the fine motor coordination down for writing easily at 4.5 (he's a March birthday). I'm not surprised that his kindy year, there were 9 summer birthdays in his class and only one of those kids was still 5. There weren't many fall/winter birthdays so the class was almost split in half between the already-6 kids and the not-6-until-spring kids. We have a Sept 1 cut-off here but it feels like July 1 at his (former) school. I'm so happy to not have the nightly fight over homework anymore.

[Bluegoat]

You just described Montessori. :D

 

Or, almost every school in my province 50 years ago.

[AmyinMD]

I redshirted my twins although we are homeschooling. They have a June birthday and were born 2 months premature. My son in particular was not ready for seat work at age 5. They are in 2nd grade this year and I'm glad they are older for it and I gave them an extra year to mature.

 

My 5 yo is attending Public Kindy this year. She is my first child to attend school for kindergarten and I'm blown away at the expectations for K. My dd had to write her name correctly the first week of school. She was writing it but used a couple capitals in her names (D and A which are harder to form as lowercases). I'm glad she is writing it correctly now but there were kids in the class that didn't know how to write their names at all and they needed to be doing it perfectly the very first week. I have volunteered in the class twice in the two weeks since school started and know some of the kids are probably going to have a hard time with the high expectations. I am going to go once a week to work with small groups for reading instruction.

 

At the open house the teacher put up a work sample that is expected by Christmas. It was a paragraph of around 3 sentences with a couple words misspelled with creative spelling. There is a huge list of high frequency words that the kids need to learn as soon as possible and they have to spell them correctly. They can only use the creative spelling on new words they don't know. The kids are already reading books which just have 1 different word on each page. I'm glad my dd already knows how to read some because it all seems so whole language based. The kids are able to guess the new words from picture clues on the page.

 

So far the reading program is the only thing we are unhappy with. My dd seems to enjoy going to school each day but she does love writing so I'm sure she'll be okay with the writing expectations. I imagine it can be a lot for other kids especially very young 5 year olds. My dd has an October birthday and is one of the older children in her class but I wouldn't hesitate to redshirt her if her birthday was near the cut off.

[Bluegoat]

I redshirted my twins although we are homeschooling. They have a June birthday and were born 2 months premature. My son in particular was not ready for seat work at age 5. They are in 2nd grade this year and I'm glad they are older for it and I gave them an extra year to mature.

 

My 5 yo is attending Public Kindy this year. She is my first child to attend school for kindergarten and I'm blown away at the expectations for K. My dd had to write her name correctly the first week of school. She was writing it but used a couple capitals in her names (D and A which are harder to form as lowercases). I'm glad she is writing it correctly now but there were kids in the class that didn't know how to write their names at all and they needed to be doing it perfectly the very first week. I have volunteered in the class twice in the two weeks since school started and know some of the kids are probably going to have a hard time with the high expectations. I am going to go once a week to work with small groups for reading instruction.

 

At the open house the teacher put up a work sample that is expected by Christmas. It was a paragraph of around 3 sentences with a couple words misspelled with creative spelling. There is a huge list of high frequency words that the kids need to learn as soon as possible and they have to spell them correctly. They can only use the creative spelling on new words they don't know. The kids are already reading books which just have 1 different word on each page. I'm glad my dd already knows how to read some because it all seems so whole language based. The kids are able to guess the new words from picture clues on the page.

 

So far the reading program is the only thing we are unhappy with. My dd seems to enjoy going to school each day but she does love writing so I'm sure she'll be okay with the writing expectations. I imagine it can be a lot for other kids especially very young 5 year olds. My dd has an October birthday and is one of the older children in her class but I wouldn't hesitate to redshirt her if her birthday was near the cut off.

 

That is totally crazy. At that age some kids can be three years behind others in reading readiness and still be within the normal range.

 

THey are totally setting up many of those kids for failure. It seems cruel and unfair to me.

[AmyinMD]

That is totally crazy. At that age some kids can be three years behind others in reading readiness and still be within the normal range.

 

THey are totally setting up many of those kids for failure. It seems cruel and unfair to me.

 

My dh went with me to the open house and he thinks that the teacher cherry picked a top student's sample to show the parents. I tend to agree and I'm not sure how realistic what she showed is. There is a big word wall up with the high frequency words so that is probably why those are spelled correctly. The kids can look at them when they are doing their writing. I was just blown away by the expectations. I understand a lot better why parents red shirt. We are full day kindy here state wide so I'm not sure if that affects expectations or not. I did find a mom with 4 kids whose 2 older kids went to half day and she claims it is the same expectations except the kids get specials now. Most days my dd only gets one special which is 40 minutes long though. They spend over 2 hours on reading each day which doesn't seem like it would be possible for half day K.

 

I felt like a huge slacker after the open house. I've homeschooled 4 kids for Kindy. My goal is generally to have them writing words with properly formed letters by the end of the year and to be able to fluently read CVC words and some high frequency words but I still have the kids sound most of those out. If dd had stayed at home we would have finished MFW K. She made it to lesson 12 before school started.

[Murphy101]

I didn't read all the replies...

 

Not everyone who red shirts is actually red shirting. I didnt put my kids in school until I absolutely had to by order of law. It didn't matter if they were reading or whatever. It had to do with my personal philosophy that older is better to enter into formal education and the very young should be surrounded mostly by family.

 

I had never heard the term red shirting until this forum a few years ago. By then, I had been doing this for over a decade and 7 children. It had nothing to do with other kids or getting a competititive edge of sorts.

[just.me]

3 of my 4 boys are summer birthdays so this is a topic that hits very close to home. I sent my oldest on time and he ended up doing kinder twice. It was too late though because he already labeled himself as "stupid" and not able to learn. He has struggled with very low self esteem ever since. He also has ADHD which makes the matter worse. My 5 year old could have gone to kinder this year but was no where near ready and I didn't want to set another child up for failure. It truly does last a lifetime. He's HSing now and will start PS when he's ready and I'll try to have him placed in the grade he's developmentally ready for. My 3 yo is a summer baby and we'll do the same for him. I have to say, my 1st grader is a November baby and I still had to pull him out of kinder to HS. What they are doing in kinder just doesn't match up to a child's developmental process. My opinion is that a child should read before they write but PS kinder has them journal writing before they can read. Makes zero sense.

[snowbeltmom]

Or, almost every school in my province 50 years ago.

 

I wish my school growing up would have been like that! Are the school's in your province still set up that way today?

[snowbeltmom]

THey are totally setting up many of those kids for failure. It seems cruel and unfair to me.

:iagree:

 

I remember reading a book written by a pediatrician when my boys were pre-school age. The doctor was a big proponent of "red-shirting" boys. He said that K expectations today are what the expectations were for first grade years ago. He feels that boys are wired differently than girls and are not developmentally able to meet the expectations of the typical K classroom setting. As a result, these boys are labeled as "behavior problems", and that label can stick with the child for a long time.

[cindergretta]

I know this isn't the thread for it, but it does peripherally relate:

 

Has anyone read or been told that 7 is a "natural" age for many typical children to learn to read? I read that several years ago and then had a discussion with a librarian at my church a couple of years ago about it and he agreed with that premise based on his own research.

 

I know in my own home, homeschooling - wise, all of my dc have learned to read relatively easily after their 7th birthdays. (Well, the older 4 have, anyway.)

 

With many kindy programs now expecting kids to come already able to write their own name, know their alphabet, and be able to sight read certain words, I wonder about what I read and discussed, kwim? How does that tie into parents wanting to wait, if others have read or been exposed to that same idea?

[freesia]

I know this isn't the thread for it, but it does peripherally relate:

 

Has anyone read or been told that 7 is a "natural" age for many typical children to learn to read? I read that several years ago and then had a discussion with a librarian at my church a couple of years ago about it and he agreed with that premise based on his own research.

 

I know in my own home, homeschooling - wise, all of my dc have learned to read relatively easily after their 7th birthdays. (Well, the older 4 have, anyway.)

 

With many kindy programs now expecting kids to come already able to write their own name, know their alphabet, and be able to sight read certain words, I wonder about what I read and discussed, kwim? How does that tie into parents wanting to wait, if others have read or been exposed to that same idea?

Many of the most literate countries (Finland comes to mind) do not teach reading until 7. When I taught first and second grade and kept the children over 2 years and was able to delay pushing reading in first grade it was amazing to watch how fast some of them learned at the beginning of second grade. Within a few weeks they were right on par with the rest of the class. That all changed with the standardized testing.

 

I remember learning about a study in Germany where they took 2 kindergarten classes. One class did Read Alouds and hands-on activities for K; the other did an academic program. When they tested the classes at the end of first grade, the Hands-on class was ahead of the academic one. I have never seen any proof that teaching reading early leads to better readers. Anecdotally, my daughter didn't read well until she was 7. She now reads as well as her friends who learned at 4 and was in the 99% on all her Reading subtests on the Iowa last year. This is what I saw again and again when I taught.

 

Making Pre-K and Ks sit, drill sight words, etc. for no reason really makes me upset. Please note, I don't have a problem with parents teaching a young child who is ready, but a classroom situation, sitting at desks not cuddling on the couch is completely different. There seems to be no room anymore to say, as I did with dd, "Let's put this aside for a few months and try again then."

[cindergretta]

Interesting... In addition to the "natural" readiness, part of what I read and discussed was that many of the children who were "pushed" to learn to read early (not the ones who chose to or taught themselves) were ahead in early elementary, on par by mid - elementary, and behind by Junior High. I thought that was rather startling. :001_huh: