Jean in Newcastle Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Background: Ds15 started Latin in 3rd grade, did Prima Latina and the two Latina Christiana courses and then started in on Latin Prep. He is currently in Latin Prep 2. He has gotten a B average in Latin Prep 2 but that is only because when I average his A work with his D or low C work, it has come out to a B. Because of this discrepancy in his work, I started to analyze and work with him last year. His low C and D work is because he has not taken the time to actually memorize what he needs to memorize. So when working from English to Latin, the level of his work plummets. He gets A's when translating from Latin to English. We are starting 10th grade in 8 days. My plan was to simply keep going in Latin Prep 2, but to up the drill and memorization. Then my ds dropped a bombshell on me yesterday by telling me that he wants to drop Latin and do German instead. German! I know zero German other than "Sprechen sie Deutch", which I obviously cannot sprechen. I could teach him high school Japanese with my hands tied behind my back but he absolutely refuses to even consider it because he would have to learn and memorize a new writing system. He refuses to consider Spanish because (and he gave a bunch of stupid nonsensical reasons like it would be harder to pronounce Spanish than German for his mouth) - basically it is because he just doesn't want to learn Spanish. I've searched the threads here on German programs. I looked at the OSUonline course that has been recommended the most on the threads. It looks expensive to me. $389 per course. Is that just how much it costs? I looked at courses for Japanese and Spanish and they weren't as high. There is a course called Deutsch im Blick, that is a free 1 year web based course from U of Texas. You do have to purchase a text for $31.00. But it appears to be one year only? I am seriously panicking because of how little time I have to research all of this and because I feel like I've been picked up out of my little kiddie pool and dumped into the shark tank. I've told him that I want a pros/cons list of continuing with Latin vs. switching to German. I believe in letting a high schooler have a say in something like this. Dh wants us to tell ds to shut up and do Latin because he needs the discipline of doing something that is hard. Part of me wants to tell him that simply because I would be able to continue with the materials I already know and have. I don't know what I'm asking for. Advice, certainly. Perhaps some talking down off of my ledge. Perspective, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharilynn29 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 We are using The Learnables. Although I'm using Spanish, they have German as well. It is immersion, but I believe that it moves slow enough to learn and fast enough to not be boring. It is not teacher intensive, which I love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 First of all, I think forcing a high schooler to study a foreign language he has no interest in will probably not get good results. So, I'd let him have his wish and let him study German. (My son insisted on studying Italian; not French like his sister where I can teach at least the beginning level, nor Russian where I was fluent once - nope. Italian. ) I have several thoughts for you. It depends a little on how much time you yourself will be able to invest. The way I start my kids on foreign languages is by self studying. We get the components of a course (book, CDs, workbook) and I learn alongside/ a few days ahead. This obviously works only if you have an interest in learning the language as well. Once I hit the point that this is no longer feasible (with French after about two years), I look for alternatives; we first went with a private tutor, and now DD takes classes at the local university. Pricy, but she makes progress. Alternatively, you could completely outsource and go with OSU about which people have been writing good things. Considering how time consuming for the parent the self study is, and how expensive it is to use a once-weekly private tutor, I would consider it money very well spent, if you can at all afford it. It will be the surest way to guarantee success. Lastly, I would not automatically discount the one year option. If it is cheap or free, this might be a great way for him to explore the language and find out if he wants to continue, and for how long. After the year, you can decide if he wants to just do the bare minimum and fulfill the two year requirement most schools have; in that case, you might be able to cobble something together from various resources and call it good. Or, he might have discovered that he really likes it and would like to continue for longer, striving for actual fluency; in that case, I would investigate whether it is possible to join OSU in the second year, or whether other programs exist that he could join. Good luck. I find foreign language the hardest subject to home school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I did let ds stop Latin. In our case, he lined up his reasons well, explained his long term language goals and Latin did not fit. He also had not progressed as I had hoped. I had a good cry over it though. I was looking at OSU German earlier today, there is a discount for homeschoolers, but it had a note to call I think. We are approaching our language study like this, he does Japanese at a full credit pace. He is doing "Introductory Russian" at half credit pace, at his own pace. He has to complete the half credit of Russian this year, then will decide how to continue next year. I didn't invest a lot into the books for Russian. If he wants to continue next year I'll find a more traditional approach. He's much more enthusiastic about the languages he chooses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetC Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 (edited) I've searched the threads here on German programs. I looked at the OSUonline course that has been recommended the most on the threads. It looks expensive to me. $389 per course. Is that just how much it costs? I looked at courses for Japanese and Spanish and they weren't as high. There is a course called Deutsch im Blick, that is a free 1 year web based course from U of Texas. You do have to purchase a text for $31.00. But it appears to be one year only? I'm not familiar with UTexas German, but the UT French is an excellent, very rigorous college course. So, if German is similar, one year of college language is equivalent to two years of high school language. But, how are you going to grade his work and evaluate his pronunciation if you don't speak the language? Foreign language is one area where you really do get what you pay for, and it sounds like paying for an outside teacher would be a good idea in this case. For a 36 week school year, you are looking at a little over 10 bucks a week. It really isn't that bad considering the off-loading you're getting in return. I'm assuming OSU will take care of organizing the schedule, creating assignments, and grading everything for you. You just have to make sure he keeps up with turning in the assignments. (My kids do French and Spanish, so I'm going with the hive's consensus on course quality here, not personal experience.) Good luck with your decision! --Janet P.S: I noticed a little asterisk on their pricing page -- it says there is a special rate for home schools. Maybe call after the holiday weekend and see if there's a discount? Edited September 3, 2012 by JanetC added ps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpe Diem Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 What is OSU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 What is OSU? Oklahoma State University. they have a very popular online course: http://germanonline.okstate.edu/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Is there a German language school near you? There is a big network of them. Typically they offer Saturday classes for 3 hours for a very reasonable price. They teach all ages, and prepare kids for the German language exams as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 OSU German I is $250 for homeschoolers. I suggest calling Sabine to chat. She helped me relax and have a good idea of how to schedule it (he worked on it for about 40-50 minutes a day, 3x to 4x a week) We took a 2-month break over summer or he would be done by now. There are lots of video/ audio components and you can sign up for short once-a-week skype lessons (included in the price) for the speaking portion (German I's skype sessions were too basic imho so I didn't bother with it but I will sign him up for it when he moves up to German II). I am not a native speaker but I took about 3 semesters of German in college (about 20 years ago, ack!) and was able to help with basic pronunciation but seriously, the program is set up quite well and my son doesn't need help. He has started practicing with Duolingo.com for review. I have an account too so we can "compete" with each other if needed. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 Thank you for all the help so far. One question about the OSU course. Can you start anytime? Or is it live so you have to log in at certain times? We were thinking of having him continue taking Latin for the first semester this year while I did more research on German. But would he be able to sign up in January for the first year course? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Thank you for all the help so far. One question about the OSU course. Can you start anytime? Or is it live so you have to log in at certain times? We were thinking of having him continue taking Latin for the first semester this year while I did more research on German. But would he be able to sign up in January for the first year course? I'm not sure. I do know that we can extend the course for longer than a school year if necessary because we took the independent learning/ self paced option so it might be possible to begin in January. And I do know that some of the courses filled up quickly last year (but I don't remember if German I did). It's not a live class but the skype sessions are of course live (if you choose to take them...it is not compulsory for German I). All of the videos and audio files are recorded. HTH Jean! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hswarden Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Is this true--the textbook is costing about $100? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixieB Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 He's 10th grade this year. Could you do German 1 (through whatever program you decide on) and then next year he could dual-enroll at CC for German 2, 3, etc.? That's assuming the CC offers German. Or possibly enroll through a local university for German 2+, either for an in-person class or via distance learning? Or -- enroll in the class through a state virtual school? For example, here is one; the course materials are K12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhschool Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I would not let him drop Latin. I would, however, let him study German *in addition*. Start with the Instant Immersion CDs. Just listen to all of them, beginning to end. Then maybe Rosetta Stone Levels 1-5? Get a tutor--if there is a local Rudolf Steiner school there are always German tutors around. Also German (from Germany) students can be good tutors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Jean - you can start any time - but sometimes their courses fill up and then they won't take anyone else. It is $250 per homeschool student and is money well spent for learning an FL if you have it due to the multisensory approach that includes 'guided immersion' experiences. My perception of the whole program is that levels I and II are better than III (so far). At level three (dd is halfway through) they have stopped giving video explanations of grammar. Also there are a lot more fill in the blank pages. This could be to try to have the student work at a more difficult level - but it not as playful. We have other books that she can use for grammar supplements. Also we don't like the novel for this level (about a girl sneaking out at night) - so I'm going to be looking into other German possibilities for higher levels. But certainly the first two levels are worth the money. Not sure if the 'textbook = $100' question was for OSU - if so, there is no 'textbook' so far... Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Jean - you can start any time - but sometimes their courses fill up and then they won't take anyone else. It is $250 per homeschool student and is money well spent for learning an FL if you have it due to the multisensory approach that includes 'guided immersion' experiences. My perception of the whole program is that levels I and II are better than III (so far). At level three (dd is halfway through) they have stopped giving video explanations of grammar. Also there are a lot more fill in the blank pages. This could be to try to have the student work at a more difficult level - but it not as playful. We have other books that she can use for grammar supplements. Also we don't like the novel for this level (about a girl sneaking out at night) - so I'm going to be looking into other German possibilities for higher levels. But certainly the first two levels are worth the money. Not sure if the 'textbook = $100' question was for OSU - if so, there is no 'textbook' so far... Joan Last year in September the German 1 class and the AP level were full. I think there is also a class that starts around January for lower levels. Especially if you were thinking of doing one level per semester rather than per year. I found the $250 to be a pretty good value, though I intend to be more draconian about supervising my kids' work and understanding of concepts. I was a little too laissez faire last year and it shows in their understanding of grammatical constructs. For German 1, the only textbook is infosheets and worksheets that we have to print out in order to do the lessons. A cost to consider, but nothing near $100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I've been considering foreign language choices for dd's eighth grade year. She wants to learn German but it's not available locally through homeschool groups. OSU may be the solution. Thanks all :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing lioness Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 We looked at OSU as well as continuing Latin and ended up getting RS German. I know there is lots of controversy about it but here's why we choose it: Dh is studying Hebrew with it- this is his 3rd for. language (he is conversant/can translate in the other 2 ) and he LOVES how accesible RS is and how quickly he was able to start speaking Hebrew (a language with a different alphabet). Plus, it's non consumable. Also, we felt like OSU was pretty pricey for a recorded class, and we've had very mixed reviews with the virtual classes our kids have taken/dh has taught. DS is going to try to continue with Latin if schedule allows (it's pretty tight) but he really wants to be speaking something foreign by the end of the year -(his goal) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trilliums Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I sympathize with your dilemma. Older son started Mandarin in grade 9 with a tutor and he did every well, except for the characters. Over the summer we debated continuing with Mandarin but call is Conversational Mandarin on his transcripts, or switching languages. Then his tutor moved away and local community offered classes weren't offered. This year he started Spanish 1 at the public school. After this year (grade 10) he plans to go the the U or CC and take 3 semesters of college level Spanish to end up with the equivalent of 4 high school credits. I have also seriously been considering Rosetta Stone and I have read many bad reviews of it. At least both kids could use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hswarden Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Sorry--I got on a rabbit trail and was looking at their spanish class, which ordains a textbook that is running about $100 at the few websites I pulled up. I wish I could find a good, one-year Spanish program for about $250, including materials. Rosetta STone and Live Mocha and so forth aren't really working for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 We're only a few weeks into the OSU German I course but so far my ds is really enjoying it. The price is 250 and there is no textbook, as others have stated. My son enjoys the weekly Skype sessions. We decided not to force him to study a language he wasn't interested in. He wanted to learn German, so German it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I don't know if this is relevant, as I don't recall that much from Latin Prep, but if I recall correctly, it is structured similarly to SYRWYL Spanish . . . So, anyway, very late in the game, I realized that I need to force my kids to memorize those vocab lists!! So, starting this year, I give them a vocab test at each vocab list (there are two in each SYRWTL chapter). I type all the words and translations into excel, upload those to quizlet for studying, then, later, it is easy as pie to print out vocab tests. So, anyway, my kids are having a much easier time of things wtih the exercises now that they are forced to memorize their vocab!! (I force it . . .b/c I give them a test of ALL the words in the list. . . then if they get 7 out of 40 wrong, then they have to retake a test on just those 7 a few days later . . . and their final quiz score is the highest they get, so they ultimately will get 100%, lol. So far, no kid has had to take it more than one re-test to get 100%.) HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 I don't know if this is relevant, as I don't recall that much from Latin Prep, but if I recall correctly, it is structured similarly to SYRWYL Spanish . . . Yes, it is structured similarly and yes, it helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.